ZigBee zig'd when it should have Zag'd?
Neil Cherry
titled: "ZigBee in danger of falling apart" By Wireless
Watch. Basically the conflicting camps are rushing out their own
proprietary pre-releases and screwing things up. Here's the article:
http://www.theregister.com/2004/10/04/zigbee_fragmentation/
That might explain why one vender would like me to pay for the
privilege of writing a device driver for their hardware. ;-) OK, so
it's not that way but it certainly seems like it.
--
Linux Home Automation Neil Cherry nch...@comcast.net
http://home.comcast.net/~ncherry/ (Text only)
http://hcs.sourceforge.net/ (HCS II)
http://linuxha.blogspot.com/ My HA Blog
Dave Houston
The article seemed very long on generalization and very short on detail.
aside from Ember, who has long done their own thing, who has actually
released anything?
I haven't seen any consumer level, home automation related modules.
Neil Cherry
> Neil,
>
> The article seemed very long on generalization and very short on detail.
> aside from Ember, who has long done their own thing, who has actually
> released anything?
>
> I haven't seen any consumer level, home automation related modules.
Hmm, guessed I jumped the gun, I thought that the ZWave stuff fell into
that category. Isn't ZWave a derivative that will be 'upgraded' to
ZigBee later? I read that somewhere but it could just be more
blab-age.
> Neil Cherry <n...@wolfgang.uucp> wrote:
>
>>Just when things were looking up I read an article from the Register
>>titled: "ZigBee in danger of falling apart" By Wireless
>>Watch. Basically the conflicting camps are rushing out their own
>>proprietary pre-releases and screwing things up. Here's the article:
>>
>>http://www.theregister.com/2004/10/04/zigbee_fragmentation/
--
Dave Houston
different RF frequency so it will be impossible for Z-Wave to morph into
ZigBee although I'm sure some of their dealers will try to claim otherwise.
I believe the Zensys site says they will support ZigBee when it's "released"
but I think the term "support" needs to be defined. I doubt it means
replacing or upgrading existing Z-Wave hardware to be ZigBee compatible.
Robert L. Bass
Heh... :^)
> Zensys uses a totally different RF frequency
> so it will be impossible for Z-Wave to morph
> into ZigBee although I'm sure some of their
> dealers will try to claim otherwise.
I know of no dealer who has made such a claim. Besides, Zwave has no need
to morph into Zigbee any more than HomeSeer needs to Morph onto HAL.
> I believe the Zensys site says they will
> support ZigBee when it's "released" but
> I think the term "support" needs to be
> defined...
Perhaps you should contact Zen-Sys and ask what they mean instead of
hypothesizing what some imaginary dealer might claim.
> I doubt it means replacing or upgrading
> existing Z-Wave hardware to be ZigBee
> compatible.
Best guess is they'll offer a ZigBee enabled interface to translate ZigBee
to operate ZWave. But that's just my guess.
--
Regards,
Robert L Bass
=============================>
Bass Home Electronics
2291 Pine View Circle
Sarasota · Florida · 34231
877-722-8900 Sales & Tech Support
http://www.bassburglaralarms.com
=============================>
Jim H
news:rcOdnYFXYss...@comcast.com:
>> I believe the Zensys site says they will
>> support ZigBee when it's "released" but
>> I think the term "support" needs to be
>> defined...
>
> Perhaps you should contact Zen-Sys and ask what they mean instead of
> hypothesizing what some imaginary dealer might claim.
>
>> I doubt it means replacing or upgrading
>> existing Z-Wave hardware to be ZigBee
>> compatible.
>
> Best guess is they'll offer a ZigBee enabled interface to translate
> ZigBee to operate ZWave. But that's just my guess.
Perhaps you should contact Zen-Sys instead of hypothesizing.
--
Jim H
Robert L. Bass
>> ZigBee to operate ZWave. But that's just my guess.
>
> Perhaps you should contact Zen-Sys instead of hypothesizing.
There's a new, start-up merchant posting here who has very good prices on
Z-Wave. He also tries to answer questions honestly. Z-Wave is apparently
his bread and butter. I think I'll wait for him to get the answer.
G. Morgan
used 21 lines of text to write in newsgroup: comp.home.automation
>There's a new, start-up merchant posting here who has very good prices on
>Z-Wave. He also tries to answer questions honestly. Z-Wave is apparently
>his bread and butter. I think I'll wait for him to get the answer.
It's only a matter of time before you attempt to deride him.
-Graham
Remove the 'snails' from my email
BruceR
"Block Sender" function applied.
Frank Olson
news:Eir9d.1490$Aa1...@twister.socal.rr.com...
> Another worthless piece of drivel from Graham.
> "Block Sender" function applied.
Heh... do you intend to "unblock sender" when he's proven right??
I seem to recall Robert taking issue with an online dealer (not Goofie
Groupie Muderator's "Alarm Stuporstore") over some contacts they were
offering with a lifetime warranty.
--
Frank Olson
http://www.yoursecuritysource.com
Free listings for qualified dealers and industry professionals
BruceR
I'll say this again in case you didn't get it the first dozen or so
times it's been said by myself and others. Graham offers no relevant
facts, no reasoned opinions, no thoughtful commentary, in fact nothing
at all - except personal attacks against a single poster. Even if he is
right, I submit that if the exact same statement had been made by anyone
other than Bass he would not have made a reply. IOW, it was just another
waste of time for the group. To date, I have never seen even one useful
post made by Graham which is why I blocked his "messages." And, to
answer your question, no, I don't intend to unblock him for any reason.
That won't make any difference though since he posts with new aliases
all the time anyway.
tech-home
Thanks for the complement Bass
I was going to chime in but didn't get the time earlier. Like you
mentioned before a device that will allow talking between the two is
what I'm aware of. They call it a bridge and that's really all I've
heard of. I have a contact overseas with Zensys,(engineer) and I'll be
glad to ask him for his opinion. I really think it all depends IF
Zigbee ever does anything in the consumer market which seems to be an
on again off again technology. Because this seems to be Zensys primary
target.
Brian
http://tech-home.com
mikey
> Frank,
> I'll say this again in case you didn't get it the first dozen or so
> times it's been said by myself and others. Graham offers no relevant
> facts, no reasoned opinions, no thoughtful commentary, in fact nothing
> at all - except personal attacks against a single poster.
A single poster? Now there's a clue.
Robert L Bass
>> here who has very good prices on Z-Wave.
>> He also tries to answer questions honestly.
>> Z-Wave is apparently his bread and butter.
>> I think I'll wait for him to get the answer.
> Thanks for the complement Bass
You're welcome and my first name is Robert. :^)
> I was going to chime in but didn't get the
> time earlier. Like you mentioned before a
> device that will allow talking between the
> two is what I'm aware of. They call it a
> bridge and that's really all I've heard of.
Same here. BTW, I don't get enough of a break on Z-Wave to really
market it and you're doing a good job anyway so I figure I'll let you
answer questions about it. Regarding one poster who often tries to
put down Z-Wave, not to worry. He's just PO'd at me for disagreeing
with him a few times. He doesn't really care about Z-Wave one way or
the other.
There was a thread where several folks voiced disappointment over the
lack of a 3-way switch for Z-Wave. I recently noticed that one Z-Wave
partner firm now has (will soon have??) a 3-way available. You may
want to get some of them in stock. I don't recall which partner it
was but I found it pretty quickly on a Google so you shouldn't have
any trouble.
> I have a contact overseas with Zensys,
> (engineer) and I'll be glad to ask him
> for his opinion. I really think it all
> depends IF Zigbee ever does anything
> in the consumer market which seems to
> be an on again off again technology.
> Because this seems to be Zensys primary
> target.
Zensys is playing the right hand IMO. They've targeted a lucrative
market and they've enlisted some powerful partners - Microsoft, Intel,
etc. I expect they're going to do very well. Your online business
might be eclipsed by Circuit City type dealers in a couple of years or
you might even become the next Circuit City. I've carved out a
comfortable niche in security and home automation by offering
something few online merchants and almost no brick and mortar stores
offer -- DIY support. If you keep doing the right thing I expect
you'll do very well.
Regards,
Robert L Bass
http://www.BassBurglarAlarms.com
tech-home
I know nothing about alarms but will be taking classes on the M1 from
Elk. I don't want to get into alarm business more the Home
Automation/Structured wiring side. I'll leave the alarms to you and
referred several to your site.
For the 3-way switches I have some on back order. They are not
available yet and about once a week I inquire about them, it was
Tuesday this week. Their is no specific time frame. The distributor
just doesn't exactly know when they are coming in. Overseas shipping
does take awhile but it's now looking like around mid to end of Nov. I
like most really want more Zwave products and not happy about keep
getting the same old story, "their just a couple weeks away". But this
doesn't keep me from truely believing in Zwave. At least there are
products out instead of just talk (Zigbee).
I thought Zwave was a very easy to use product but finding out some
people cann't properly setup the modules with the remotes. I guess
this is why you should READ the instructions. I really hope to start
installing locally soon but need to have more products to properly
outfit a house. 300 watt dimmers are not nearly enough. And again most
people need 3-way switches. And the controllers need some work (back
light).
About people who put down Zwave well everyone has their opionion. If
they haven't tried their products I really give no merit to them. My
system is 100 percent reliable with NO filters and NO coupler
repeaters (Obviously you don't need them). I would put Zwave up to
anything within their price range and most higher. I'm sure I'll get
blasted about this but this is my thoughts.
myren, lord
>>Z-Wave. He also tries to answer questions honestly. Z-Wave is apparently
>>his bread and butter. I think I'll wait for him to get the answer.
> It's only a matter of time before you attempt to deride him.
to his defense, its not his fault Zensys stuff costs an arm and a
freaking leg. $5000 for a dev kit which they make pretty much mandatory
to develop, oh please, how can they expect to compete with zigbee.
if they just sold chips and the reference material you need, they
/might/ have a prayer, but from what i've seen if you want that
reference materials you pretty much have to buy the dev kit.
myren
Dave Houston
Actually, the USB interface is just an RS-232 interface with an FTDI chip
that makes it USB. There's still an RS-232 data stream between the FTDI chip
and the main board.
HouseBot (freeware) supports it. My guess is they reverse engineered the
protocol using either a USB or RS232 sniffer.
Max Metral
solutions, is that the devices look like crap. I shouldn't have to pay
RadioRA prices just to get a dimmer with a paddle that doesn't jiggle, or
plastic that looks doesn't like it was popped out of a model kit. I don't
get these guys, they're like the PC designers of the 80's, afraid to do
anything other than what the one before them did... Currently around our
house we have a bunch of "capacitive" dimmers, with a metal plate that you
hold your finger on to dim up and down. Why doesn't anyone use this design
for automated dimmers, given that it gets around the "positional status"
problem?
The Z-Wave prices and system design are great. I anxiously await a dimmer
and switch design that doesn't look like an X10 reject, and an RS232
interface that doesn't require a soldering iron to make.
Robert L Bass
> classes on the M1 from Elk. I don't want to get
> into alarm business more the Home Automation /
> Structured wiring side. I'll leave the alarms
> to you and referred several to your site.
Thanks, I appreciate the referrals. Maybe we'll meet at the next ELK
class. It's easy to spot me. I'm the guy with the leather cowboy
hat. :^)
> For the 3-way switches I have some on back order.
> They are not available yet and about once a week
> I inquire about them, it was Tuesday this week.
> Their is no specific time frame. The distributor
> just doesn't exactly know when they are coming
> in.
That's the way it always is in this business. Remember how long we
waited for the ELK-M1G to be released?
> Overseas shipping does take awhile but it's now
> looking like around mid to end of Nov. I like
> most really want more Zwave products and not
> happy about keep getting the same old story,
> "their just a couple weeks away". But this
> doesn't keep me from truely believing in Zwave.
> At least there are products out instead of just
> talk (Zigbee).
Exactly! The few Z-Wave products I've used were not cheesy either.
> I thought Zwave was a very easy to use product
> but finding out some people cann't properly setup
> the modules with the remotes. I guess this is
> why you should READ the instructions...
Even that doesn't always work. There's one character who posts here
who has attacked the engineers at ELK because he didn't understand how
to read their manual. In the dictionary next to the word curnudgeon
there's a picture of him. :^)
> I really hope to start installing locally soon
> but need to have more products to properly
> outfit a house. 300 watt dimmers are not nearly
> enough. And again most people need 3-way switches.
> And the controllers need some work (back light).
If you want to start doing installations you really need to offer a
full system of some sort. You can of course work with the ELK-M1G but
I'd also suggest you become expert on HomeSeer. It's a very flexible
HA app that can be used to integrate a wide array of stand-alone (read
"reliable") systems. While you're at it, get familiar with Aprilaire
HVAC controls. That's another profitable line you should offer.
> About people who put down Zwave well everyone
> has their opionion.
Some folks have more than one. :^)
> If they haven't tried their products I really
> give no merit to them.
It's easy to read a few lines from an online brochure and then try to
pick something apart. That's classic Houstonism. He contributes lots
of useful stuff to the forum but you have to recognize when he's just
spewing and ignore it.
> My system is 100 percent reliable with NO
> filters and NO coupler repeaters (Obviously
> you don't need them). I would put Zwave up
> to anything within their price range and most
> higher. I'm sure I'll get blasted about this
> but this is my thoughts.
Your comments are based upon experience and the other fellow's remarks
are all supposition. The readers can easily measure what is more
valid.
Regards,
Robert L Bass
Bass Burglar Alarms
http://www.BassBurglarAlarms.com
Fred
every time Bass makes a post? You really are a predictable embarassment to
the alarm community. This falsified "quote" does nothing to help your
credibility.
"G. Morgan" <alarmp...@SNAILgmail.com> wrote in message
news:4187dce8...@graham.com...
> On 19 Oct 2004 20:32:41 -0700 "Robert L Bass"
> used 83 lines of text to write in newsgroup: comp.home.automation
>
>>Thanks, I appreciate the referrals. Maybe we'll meet at the next ELK
>>class. It's easy to spot me. I'm the fat guy with the leather cowboy
>>hat. :^)
>
>
>
mikey
interjected at all. This Bass jerk lives for the cheap shot and some get
tired of reading it. Explain to me why these two remarks were necessary:
"There's one character who posts here
who has attacked the engineers at ELK because he didn't understand how
to read their manual. In the dictionary next to the word curnudgeon
there's a picture of him. :^)"
"It's easy to read a few lines from an online brochure and then try to
pick something apart. That's classic Houstonism. He contributes lots
of useful stuff to the forum but you have to recognize when he's just
spewing and ignore it."
"Fred" <nut...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:__SdnWh8E_l...@comcast.com...
BruceR
to see the kind of power that Robert has over you. He must be a very
powerful person to be able to exert such control and incite such
feelings from you, Graham and Frank over such a long time. Do you sit
up, fetch and roll over at his command too?
Frank Olson
> Damn! You changed your address again and got by my filter. It's amazing to
> see the kind of power that Robert has over you. He must be a very powerful
> person to be able to exert such control and incite such feelings from you,
> Graham and Frank over such a long time. Do you sit up, fetch and roll
> over at his command too?
I'm sure he could "incite such feelings" in you too... All he has to do is
call you a liar, babble on about how you know absolutely nothing about HA
(having never installed it yourself), and tell everyone that you do post
useful information but it's biased.
mikey
"BruceR" <brNO...@hawaii.com> wrote in message
news:E_ydd.19335$jo2....@twister.socal.rr.com...
BruceR
I know nothing about HA. Actually, I can't recall him doing that to
anyone in this group.
BruceR
as she is.
Frank Olson
> Well, I post here a lot and he's never called me a liar or told me that I
> know nothing about HA. Actually, I can't recall him doing that to anyone
> in this group.
Hmmm... Maybe you should read through this thread again... Hint: