Photoshop 7 + ASUS P3B-F Motherboard Bug
Kelvin
with Adobe Photoshop 6.x (annoying to say the least) and was curious if
anyone know whether the new version 7 coming out very soon is afflicted with
it as well?
Tom Thomas
Photoshop is not "afflicted" ... the motherboard is. Check here for
more information: http://www.adobe.com/support/techdocs/2256a.htm
-------------------------------
Tom
Unsolicited advertisements cheerfully ignored.
Kelvin
problem with certain motherboards. However, considering that before version
5.5 there wasn't a problem (for me only version 6.xx does it), logic
dictates that Adobe changed something in later versions that may be
contributing to this problem, and that it's not just a hardware bug alone.
For the most part I posted because I'm very curious to see if anyone is
having (or will have) hard locks with Photoshop 7 and this motherboard.
Adobes position has always been 'not our fault, not our problem' and I want
to see if this remains true.
Robert Barnett
based on the 6 engine then I would have to say that there is a 99% chance
that 7 and all versions that come after are going to have the same problem.
You need to replace that motherboard and move on. Wasn't Asus giving
replacement motherboards to people with these MB?
Robert
--
Laws are to protect the common man. But, they take a crook to interpret
them!
Eric Gill
news:ublsvtn...@corp.supernews.com:
> Yeah, I've read that before and certainly don't disagree that there is
> a problem with certain motherboards. However, considering that before
> version 5.5 there wasn't a problem (for me only version 6.xx does it),
> logic dictates that Adobe changed something in later versions that may
> be contributing to this problem, and that it's not just a hardware bug
> alone.
It's a hardware bug alone.
What Adobe did was demand more from the hardware to squeeze considerably
more performance out of PShop, as the users demand. That ASUS board, being
buggy, couldn't handle it. As the technical note states, if you remove the
optmizations, this crashing will stop. You will also sacrifice a good deal
of performance.
This isn't limited to PShop, BTW. Other programs that tax the board, such
as certain audio encoders, can set it off as well.
> For the most part I posted because I'm very curious to see if
> anyone is having (or will have) hard locks with Photoshop 7 and this
> motherboard.
I wouldn't be at all surprised. The ASUS board is old and a fairly simple
workaround is known, so it is very unlikely they will bother re-coding for
it.
<snip>
Eugene Lishnevsky
John Kane
crashes. I have the latest Asus BIOS v 1008 beta 4.
John
"Kelvin" <spam....@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:ubl447d...@corp.supernews.com...
Thomas Rohricht
news:13440ab0.02041...@posting.google.com:
> They didn't solve this problem in 7.0. I tried it already.
It's not something Adobe can solve, short of crippling PhotoShop to use
memory less agressively. It's a hardware problem.
--
Thomas Rohricht - CO2 Creative
Forward-thinking graphics and design
http://www.co2creative.com
email replies sent to co2cr...@myrealbox.com
will be read eventually, unless they get lost
in a sea of spam.
hilite
because of the wierd Intel X86 memory paging architecture). As soon as
they abandon this relic, the problems will probably disappear. The
trouble is, they think they still need it (and it may be true) in
order to support Win98 and WinME, so it will probably be a while
before its gone.
I think its not hard to find hardware patches for the motherboard to
solve this problem, but you would have to remove the motherboard and
have a competent electronics technician make the modifications. So its
a little inconvenient. It might be better to buy a different
motherboard and hope you can get it installed without having to
re-install all of your software.
On Tue, 16 Apr 2002 14:53:58 GMT, Thomas Rohricht <s...@sig.file>
wrote:
Eric Gill
4ax.com:
> Adobe uses their own archaic virtual memory management system (this is
> because of the wierd Intel X86 memory paging architecture). As soon as
> they abandon this relic, the problems will probably disappear.
Hardly. As I noted, Pshop is not the only program that sets this hardware
bug off. All the programs have in common is aggressive memory handling, and
if they turn that of, the 99.999% of users that don't have defective
hardware will be *very* displeased at the performance hit.
<snip>
hilite
wrote:
>hilite <no...@none.com> wrote in news:jbmobu0mki4352okq1alvr016o3gnmnqic@
>4ax.com:
>
>> Adobe uses their own archaic virtual memory management system (this is
>> because of the wierd Intel X86 memory paging architecture). As soon as
>> they abandon this relic, the problems will probably disappear.
>
>Hardly. As I noted, Pshop is not the only program that sets this hardware
>bug off.
This is known as the 'Photoshop' bug you know, and Photoshop is the
only Windows program I know of that uses its own virtual memory system
instead of letting Windows manage it. Win NT, Win 2000, and Win XP use
linear memory mangement, so it won't be necessary for Adobe to use
their own scheme with these OS's.
Can you name some of the other programs that cause this bug?
Eric Gill
news:q70pbu8bk5hrnsb0v...@4ax.com:
> On Tue, 16 Apr 2002 19:30:50 GMT, Eric Gill <eric...@yahoo.com>
> wrote:
>
>>hilite <no...@none.com> wrote in
>>news:jbmobu0mki4352okq1alvr016o3gnmnqic@ 4ax.com:
>>
>>> Adobe uses their own archaic virtual memory management system (this
>>> is because of the wierd Intel X86 memory paging architecture). As
>>> soon as they abandon this relic, the problems will probably
>>> disappear.
>>
>>Hardly. As I noted, Pshop is not the only program that sets this
>>hardware bug off.
>
> This is known as the 'Photoshop' bug you know,
No, this is known as a bug with a particular Asus motherboard, which they
have acknowledged and at one time would even do something about.
Your pet annoyance with Adobe using it's own VM scheme is noted. Frankly, I
don't care.
<snip>
hilite
surprised that you're pretending to be an expert.
Of course there is indeed a bug in that motherboard and not only in
that one, but it's rarely seen in any program but Photoshop, and so
it's known as the 'Photoshop bug'.
Kelvin
hardware bugs, I've never seen ASUS confirm/admit this was indeed their
fault or offer a fix. Oh well, no matter. Your correct that it's about time
I moved on. I think I may build a new system on the ASUS P4T533 motherboard
that's going to hit shelves in the next month or two. Knowing my luck
though, I'll have whole new problems to deal with, lol. ;-)
--
Best Regards,
Kelvin
Robert Barnett
motherboards with the problem. I clearly remember that because it was the
last time I bought an ASUS board. There is no excuse for this type of
problem in a motherboard other than slopping work on their part.
Chris Cox
<spam....@nospam.com> wrote:
> Yeah, I've read that before and certainly don't disagree that there is a
> problem with certain motherboards. However, considering that before version
> 5.5 there wasn't a problem (for me only version 6.xx does it), logic
> dictates that Adobe changed something in later versions that may be
> contributing to this problem, and that it's not just a hardware bug alone.
It is a hardware bug - all alone.
This was verified by technicians at ASUS (and Dell).
What changed was some code in Photoshop was optimized - and it moves
memory faster than it did previously. This exposes a critical error in
the design of the motherboard. Other applications can hit the same
problem, but they won't do so as often because they don't move as much
memory and usually don't move it as quickly as Photoshop does.
> For the most part I posted because I'm very curious to see if anyone is
> having (or will have) hard locks with Photoshop 7 and this motherboard.
> Adobes position has always been 'not our fault, not our problem' and I want
> to see if this remains true.
Photoshop 7 will have the same problem - because the motherboard is
KNOWN to be defective.
Chris
Chris Cox
<no...@none.com> wrote:
> Adobe uses their own archaic virtual memory management system (this is
> because of the wierd Intel X86 memory paging architecture). As soon as
> they abandon this relic, the problems will probably disappear. The
> trouble is, they think they still need it (and it may be true) in
> order to support Win98 and WinME, so it will probably be a while
> before its gone.
>
No.
That has nothing to do with it.
And you REALLY don't know what you're talking about.
Chris
Chris Cox
<no...@none.com> wrote:
> On Tue, 16 Apr 2002 19:30:50 GMT, Eric Gill <eric...@yahoo.com>
> wrote:
>
> >hilite <no...@none.com> wrote in news:jbmobu0mki4352okq1alvr016o3gnmnqic@
> >4ax.com:
> >
> >> Adobe uses their own archaic virtual memory management system (this is
> >> because of the wierd Intel X86 memory paging architecture). As soon as
> >> they abandon this relic, the problems will probably disappear.
> >
> >Hardly. As I noted, Pshop is not the only program that sets this hardware
> >bug off.
>
> This is known as the 'Photoshop' bug you know, and Photoshop is the
> only Windows program I know of that uses its own virtual memory system
> instead of letting Windows manage it. Win NT, Win 2000, and Win XP use
> linear memory mangement, so it won't be necessary for Adobe to use
> their own scheme with these OS's.
Which just means that you don't know enough about the applications you
use.
It is known as the ASUS and Dell bug - because THEY made the defective
motherboards.
Intel, DELL and ASUS confirmed this.
> Can you name some of the other programs that cause this bug?
Internet Explorer
Maya
LightWave
Quake III Arena
....
Anything that tries to move a lot of memory around quickly.
Chris
Chris Cox
<spam....@nospam.com> wrote:
> Other than the admission from Adobe that blames the problem on certain
> hardware bugs, I've never seen ASUS confirm/admit this was indeed their
> fault or offer a fix. Oh well, no matter. Your correct that it's about time
> I moved on. I think I may build a new system on the ASUS P4T533 motherboard
> that's going to hit shelves in the next month or two. Knowing my luck
> though, I'll have whole new problems to deal with, lol. ;-)
Call ASUS and tell them that you have the defective board -- they'll
replace it.
Same goes for Dell's Optiplex GX1 boards.
Chris
Sylvester
"Chris Cox" <cc...@mindspring.com>
wrote:170420021219075675%cc...@mindspring.comChris
Cox170420021219075675%cc...@mindspring.comthis is an article
Just what is a 'good' board for Photoshop?
Chris Cox
> Just what is a 'good' board for Photoshop?
Anything that isn't already known to be defective.
Chris
bj
ASUS P4T-E is extremely stable and reliable. And it uses RAMBUS, so
the "memory shuffling" performes even faster.
I have used the P4T-E with a 2GHz Pentium 4 and 768 MB RAMBUS, Windows
XP. It has never ever failed. I regularly work with large files (or
multiple smaller ones open at the same time).
But there's no need with a stable motherboard unless the OS is up to
it. Go for Windows 2000 or XP, never use Win98/ME for heavy Photoshop
work
BJ
Eric Gill
4ax.com:
> Well, you don't seem to have much knowledge of this subject, so I'm
> surprised that you're pretending to be an expert.
Well, you're full of shit as many nutbars hanging out on the web are; tell
them the straight-up truth and they get their panties in a wad and blame
everyone else for their foolishness.
> Of course there is indeed a bug in that motherboard and not only in
> that one, but it's rarely seen in any program but Photoshop, and so
> it's known as the 'Photoshop bug'.
In your own fevered imagination, perhaps. Reality has no respect for it,
though.
Robert Barnett
other than 2000 or better yet XP. XP is the best OS Microsoft has ever put
out. No crap here. It isn't perfect but after over a year of use I haven't
had single crash and haven't had to format and reinstall even once. This
never happened to me before XP. I just love it.
Kelvin
believe how long I've been using Windows XP now. I've been running it since
it came out and haven't had to format and reinstall once. Of course, I keep
up things with regular maintenance, but nevertheless I'm quite amazed in
comparison to previous Windows operating systems, and I've used them all. I
love it too. ;-)
Best Regards,
Kelvin
jack
memory management. but it does slow things down a bit, especially now
that i've upped my ram from 384 to 1 gig.
are you telling me that if I go to asus.tw and download the latest
bios that I'll be able to re-enable pshop's memory management
features?
thanks
"John Kane" <jka...@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:<3cbc2...@nopics.sjc>...
Chris Cox
<johnw...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> I also own the p3b-f, and have managed by disabling pshop's enhanced
> memory management. but it does slow things down a bit, especially now
> that i've upped my ram from 384 to 1 gig.
Are you referring to disabling MMXCore? (which is the MMX/SSE
optimized code, not "enhanced memory management").
As explained many times: that is not a solution, it is a temporary
workaround.
> are you telling me that if I go to asus.tw and download the latest
> bios that I'll be able to re-enable pshop's memory management
> features?
No, the defect is in the hardware, not the BIOS.
Only boards with revision 1.04 or later will work correctly.
Chris
jack
have used Photoshop on this machine ever since I bought it. I have
been aware for some time that the disabling MMXCore is a temporary
fix, but the real fix, if this can be considered a fix, is to go into
the mb and make a hardware tweak (see
http://locksmith.orcishweb.com/asusreworkguide.html#P3B-F rev. 1.04
and below)
My hopes were briefly ignited when I thought I heard that someone had
found a bios fix for a harware porblem.
Chris Cox <cc...@mindspring.com> wrote in message news:<180420021631151809%cc...@mindspring.com>...
jack
1gb of crucial 133 mhz sdram, ati rage fury graphics card. There must
be a mb i can swap with the p3b-f that will take advantage of the 133
mhz ram and not crash with Photoshop. Anyone done this??
jack
Chris Cox
> Yes, Chris, I am referring to disabling MMXCore. And that is how I
> have used Photoshop on this machine ever since I bought it. I have
> been aware for some time that the disabling MMXCore is a temporary
> fix, but the real fix, if this can be considered a fix, is to go into
> the mb and make a hardware tweak (see
> http://locksmith.orcishweb.com/asusreworkguide.html#P3B-F rev. 1.04
> and below)
> My hopes were briefly ignited when I thought I heard that someone had
> found a bios fix for a harware porblem.
You do know that ASUS was replacing the defective boards with a fixed
version, right?
And sorry, BIOS can't fix it. (yes, soldering on larger capacitors
can fix it - but it's not a solution for the unskilled or someone who
hasn't practiced soldering on a multilayer, already populated circuit
board)
Chris
FrankG
I have the Asus P3 FC-PGA via 4x atx mb (whatever that is - as listed on
the invoice) and was wondering if it too would have a PS& problem ?
thanks
frank
"Kelvin" <spam....@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:ubtn1bk...@corp.supernews.com...
Chris Cox
<fhg...@simpatico.com> wrote:
> Are you guys talking strictly about B-F board ?
No, ALL the P3B* boards with revision less than 1.04
> I have the Asus P3 FC-PGA via 4x atx mb (whatever that is - as listed on
> the invoice) and was wondering if it too would have a PS& problem ?
Not that I know of.
Chris
ANT...@zimage.com
> In article <bda8dd53.02041...@posting.google.com>, jack
> <johnw...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> Yes, Chris, I am referring to disabling MMXCore. And that is how I
>> have used Photoshop on this machine ever since I bought it. I have
>> been aware for some time that the disabling MMXCore is a temporary
>> fix, but the real fix, if this can be considered a fix, is to go into
>> the mb and make a hardware tweak (see
>> http://locksmith.orcishweb.com/asusreworkguide.html#P3B-F rev. 1.04
>> and below)
>> My hopes were briefly ignited when I thought I heard that someone had
>> found a bios fix for a harware porblem.
> You do know that ASUS was replacing the defective boards with a fixed
> version, right?
Is it too late to get it replaced? I didn't know about this until I got
Photoshop 6.0.1 recently! DOH! I haven't had any problems until last
night. :(
> And sorry, BIOS can't fix it. (yes, soldering on larger capacitors
> can fix it - but it's not a solution for the unskilled or someone who
> hasn't practiced soldering on a multilayer, already populated circuit
> board)
--
"To the gods I am an ant, but to the ants, I am a god." --unknown
--
If you are replying to Ant's news post by e-mail, then please kindly
remove ANT in the e-mail addresses listed below. Note the CaSe!
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( )
ANT...@zimage.com
> "Kelvin" <spam....@nospam.com> wrote in
> news:ublsvtn...@corp.supernews.com:
>> Yeah, I've read that before and certainly don't disagree that there is
>> a problem with certain motherboards. However, considering that before
>> version 5.5 there wasn't a problem (for me only version 6.xx does it),
>> logic dictates that Adobe changed something in later versions that may
>> be contributing to this problem, and that it's not just a hardware bug
>> alone.
> It's a hardware bug alone.
> What Adobe did was demand more from the hardware to squeeze considerably
> more performance out of PShop, as the users demand. That ASUS board, being
> buggy, couldn't handle it. As the technical note states, if you remove the
> optmizations, this crashing will stop. You will also sacrifice a good deal
> of performance.
> This isn't limited to PShop, BTW. Other programs that tax the board, such
> as certain audio encoders, can set it off as well.
What other programs? I have many games, Sound Forge, etc. I also use Linux
for compilation, etc. None of these ever crashed my computer hard. I even
tried using cpuburn (http://users.ev1.net/~redelm/) when I first got this
motherboard to really stress test the setup.
I would like to try these other softwares (freeware/trialware/shareware)
to tax my system hard. Thank you in advance. :)
ANT...@zimage.com
>> >> because of the wierd Intel X86 memory paging architecture). As soon as
>> >> they abandon this relic, the problems will probably disappear.
>> >
>> >Hardly. As I noted, Pshop is not the only program that sets this hardware
>> >bug off.
>>
>> This is known as the 'Photoshop' bug you know, and Photoshop is the
>> only Windows program I know of that uses its own virtual memory system
>> instead of letting Windows manage it. Win NT, Win 2000, and Win XP use
>> linear memory mangement, so it won't be necessary for Adobe to use
>> their own scheme with these OS's.
> Which just means that you don't know enough about the applications you
> use.
> It is known as the ASUS and Dell bug - because THEY made the defective
> motherboards.
> Intel, DELL and ASUS confirmed this.
>> Can you name some of the other programs that cause this bug?
> Internet Explorer
> Maya
> LightWave
> Quake III Arena
> ....
> Anything that tries to move a lot of memory around quickly.
Hmm, I have Q3A and other games based on this engine. I have no problems.
Only Photoshop 6.0.1 on my box. When I first got the machine, I used
cpuburn to stress test the system (http://users.ev1.net/~redelm/) and
no problems! I would find out what other programs and games to try.
Kelvin
P3B-F to my wife and built a brand new ASUS P4S533 system several months
ago. I'm very happy with it for overall performance (P4 1.6 at 2.4 and
GFTi4600 is very sweet), and Photoshop 7 runs fantastic! :-)
--
Best Regards,
Kelvin
Chris Cox
wrote:
> Eric Gill <eric...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > "Kelvin" <spam....@nospam.com> wrote in
> > news:ublsvtn...@corp.supernews.com:
>
> >> Yeah, I've read that before and certainly don't disagree that there is
> >> a problem with certain motherboards. However, considering that before
> >> version 5.5 there wasn't a problem (for me only version 6.xx does it),
> >> logic dictates that Adobe changed something in later versions that may
> >> be contributing to this problem, and that it's not just a hardware bug
> >> alone.
>
> > It's a hardware bug alone.
>
> > What Adobe did was demand more from the hardware to squeeze considerably
> > more performance out of PShop, as the users demand. That ASUS board, being
> > buggy, couldn't handle it. As the technical note states, if you remove the
> > optmizations, this crashing will stop. You will also sacrifice a good deal
> > of performance.
>
> > This isn't limited to PShop, BTW. Other programs that tax the board, such
> > as certain audio encoders, can set it off as well.
>
> What other programs? I have many games, Sound Forge, etc. I also use Linux
> for compilation, etc. None of these ever crashed my computer hard. I even
> tried using cpuburn (http://users.ev1.net/~redelm/) when I first got this
> motherboard to really stress test the setup.
>
> I would like to try these other softwares (freeware/trialware/shareware)
> to tax my system hard. Thank you in advance. :)
It's not necessarily easy, but some video codecs, DVD codecs, audio
codecs and even Internet Explorer can cause the lockup.
Again, this is a hardware bug confirmed by ASUS.
Chris Cox
wrote:
What part of HARDWARE BUG are you not understanding?
Chris
ANT...@zimage.com
Interesting. I never had those. I do watch a lot of DVDs, videos, game
a lot, etc.I do use IE once in a while, but that's all.