Graphic Artist Needed
NOobjbui...@home.com
perform your magic.
However, I can't offer any money at this time. This is a personal
venture, and it's rather expensive already. The site has great
potential for generating lots of traffic.
Here's what I can offer you:
* You will have nearly full control over the design, layout, color
schemes, graphics etc. If your just starting out as an consultant, it's
a good opportunity to showcase your talent and generate leads.
* You may put a link on the main page to your site, and can put whatever
you want about your services in the 'about' section .
* You may take all graphic design related consulting free and clear.
* If the site generates revenue, and after the operating expenses are
covered, I'll pay you double the going rate for a graphic artist. This
is to demonstrate my appreciation for your time investment now. I
anticipate/ hope this will happen in about a year. Of course, I can't
guarantee that it will ever happen.
If your interested, please send an e-mail along with a link exhibiting
your work. If you don't have anything on-line yet, we can work something
else out.
Thanks for your time!
***************************************
(Please remove NO SPAM from my reply address)
***************************************
Stan (the Man)
perform magic.
However, I can't offer any money at this time. This is a personal
venture, and it's rather expensive already and I figure I can dupe some
idiot professional into working for me for absolutely nothing. The
bathroom has great potential for generating lots of traffic, which of
course means absolutely nothing to you, but it may confuse you enough to
give me your work for free.
Here's what I can offer you:
* You will have nearly full control over the design, placement, color,
water capacity, etc. If you're just starting out as an plumber, it's a
good opportunity for me to exploit you and get you to give me your
talent and generate leads for my site for nothing.
* You may put a sign up on my front lawn, and can put whatever
you want about your services on the sign.
* You may take all plumbing-related consulting free and clear, even
though we both know you're entitled to it anyway.
* If the new crapper generates revenue, and after the operating expenses
are covered (which, of course, you'll have no way of knowing), I'll pay
you double the going rate for a stupid plumber (2x0=0). This is to
demonstrate my appreciation for your ignorance now. I anticipate/ hope
this will happen in about a year (snicker). Of course, I can't
guarantee that it will ever happen. Matter of fact, if you think it
will *ever* happen, you're just the type of moron I'd like to con into
giving me free services.
If you're interested, please send an e-mail along with a demonstration
of your hard-earned abilities so I can see if I'll be getting really
top-notch work for free. If you don't have anything to show yet, we can
work something else out, like *you* can pay *me*.
Thanks for your valuable free time, sucker!
--
Stan
***************
Check out the H.E.L.P. Signed-Book Sale at http://www.lutzbooks.com
Famous authors and cyber friends share their writing talents to HELP
stop
cyberstalking.
Read the story!
http://members.tripod.com/~cyberstalked/
***************
Johnnie ego
John
John Lyons
egovision design
--------------------------
jo...@egovision.co.uk
http://www.egovision.co.uk
--------------------------
Stan (the Man) wrote in message <36E800F2...@ix.netcom.com>...
Orca2
(but I think some lawyers actually work this way.)
Glenn O Kolberg
Engineering & 3D Graphics
http://home.sol.no/~orca/
Johnnie ego skrev i meldingen <7c930o$pfp$1...@starburst.uk.insnet.net>...
Dan :-)
them the following:
* Rights to work on the computer
* All the parts they need
* They can put their name on the case
* To top it oof, they can pay me to use it.
--
Dan :-)
Promote Your Web Site For Free: http://www.promocenter.cjb.net
*********************************************
You've got questions. That's understandable.
*********************************************
NOobjbui...@home.com
perform your magic.
However, I can't offer any money at this time. This is a personal
venture, and it's rather expensive already. The site has great
potential for generating lots of traffic.
Here's what I can offer you:
* You will have nearly full control over the design, layout, color
schemes, graphics etc. If your just starting out as an consultant, it's
a good opportunity to showcase your talent and generate leads.
* You may put a link on the main page to your site, and can put whatever
you want about your services in the 'about' section .
* You may take all graphic design related consulting free and clear.
* If the site generates revenue, and after the operating expenses are
covered, I'll pay you double the going rate for a graphic artist. This
is to demonstrate my appreciation for your time investment now. I
anticipate/ hope this will happen in about a year. Of course, I can't
guarantee that it will ever happen.
If your interested, please send an e-mail along with a link exhibiting
Sniper
Dan: That was too funny wasn't it?? Did you notice that the guy also
posted in alt.html. Guess he needs somebody to write the html code as
well. Now just where are all his costs???????
Coy
G W Martin
-G
--
gar...@ix.netcom.com
(Signature under permanent construction)
<NOobjbui...@home.com> wrote in message
news:36E9A478...@home.com...
JMY
>I am installing a new bathroom in three weeks and need a plumber to
>perform magic.
>
>However, I can't offer any money at this time.
[snipped for brevity]
ROTFL!!!!!!!!
--
JMY
real email address: jmy at ygd dot com
NOobjbui...@home.com
couple of good designers and hope to look forward to a successful venture.
I'd also like to comment on the above 'plumber' thread. It is definitely
funny. I was laughing out loud myself. Nevertheless, something about the
attitude of the post concerns me that I'd like to address.
The days of a couple of guys making millions off of their garage invention
is over for many of the technical fields; Chemistry, Biology, Electronics,
etc. However, it's only just beginning in our field of Internet
development. Programming languages and development tools have gotten easy
enough to use that average developers can bring a concept to product in a
matter of weeks. No longer do big companies have a monopoly on new
businesses because it's the idea that counts.
The point I'm trying to make is don't be too pessimistic about start-ups.
Most people are not out to rip you off. Over the next few years you'll
probably see lots of posts like mine trying to create strategic alliances,
trading for services instead of capital, etc. Some of them will become
millionaires. When my project goes live in three weeks I'll probably have
close to 80 hours invested. I'll also be paying over $150/month for a
dedicated Internet line. There's no guarantee that I'll ever be compensated
monetarily. Statistically I wont. But if it doesn't work out, I'll try
again with something else. Not because I'm obsessed with money but I happen
to love what I do. I'm sure many of you can relate. After all, you get to
create art for a living!
Does this mean I think everyone should work for free? Of course not. I just
hope that if you encounter someone who seems to be making a genuine
bartering offer and your in a position to work with them, at least
investigate, ask questions, make a counter offer. It could make all the
difference.
Mike Christy
Too bad you could not get the dedicated Internet line people to
give you the line for free, huh. Then you could start your "business"
for nothing at all.
:^) ®
If you get a product or service you should pay for it. You understand
that about your Internet connection. Too bad you don't understand
that about your graphic art needs.
--
Graphic Artist
*
Site at: http://exo.com/~mike
Sample Logos at: http://exo.com/~mike/logos1.html
Info about Mike at: http://exo.com/~mike/message.html
WET's (WeekEnd Theme Images) at: http://exo.com/~mike/wet/
*
cowsrneat
rhetoric:
> Too bad you could not get the dedicated Internet line people to give you the
> line for free, huh. Then you could start your "business" for nothing at all.
>
> :^) ®
>
> If you get a product or service you should pay for it. You understand that
> about your Internet connection. Too bad you don't understand that about your
> graphic art needs.
>
Well, as was said in a post somewhere, some people who aren't
professional graphic artists are still trying to make a name for
themselves. They are trying to get some of their work out there, and,
even if they're not getting paid for it now, it may pay off later in the
form of a customer that would have never seen their work otherwise. You
shouldn't turn down a non-paying job just because its non-paying.
Brian
--
Pennridge High School Website:
http://start.at/phs
Check out the official Doug Moench website:
The Man Behind the Batman: Doug Moench
http://members.xoom.com/behindbatman/
ICQ UIN - 11075399
Stan (the Man)
>
> Thanks to everyone who e-mailed me regarding the project. I've found a
> couple of good designers and hope to look forward to a successful venture.
>
> I'd also like to comment on the above 'plumber' thread. It is definitely
> funny. I was laughing out loud myself. Nevertheless, something about the
> attitude of the post concerns me that I'd like to address.
<snipped to get to the point>
> I'm sure many of you can relate. After all, you get to
> create art for a living!
You apparently realize that people do this for a living. That means
they must get paid for their work in order to survive. You wouldn't ask
a plumber or electrician or any other professional, even one just
starting out (especially one just starting out) to give you their labor
for free. Why do you think a graphic artist should be treated any
differently. In addition to trying to get a Web design company off the
ground, I'm a free-lance writer. I can't tell you how many times bozo's
come into misc.writing looking for free articles for their new start-up
Web 'zine. They promise exposure and sometimes even have the nerve to
tout the fact that they won't charge the writer for putting his/her work
up on the site. Either way, it's presumptious, ignorant and shows a
complete lack of respect for the fruits of a person's labors. If you
seek services, be willing to pay for them or do the work yourself.
Sniper
>
> Well, as was said in a post somewhere, some people who aren't
> professional graphic artists are still trying to make a name for
> themselves. They are trying to get some of their work out there, and,
> even if they're not getting paid for it now, it may pay off later in the
> form of a customer that would have never seen their work otherwise. You
> shouldn't turn down a non-paying job just because its non-paying.
>
> Brian
Brian: I'm a professional photographer and have been so for eight years.
After years of playing around with cameras i finally went to school and
got a degree in photography. That took a lot of time and money. When i
was in school i would have felt very good about working for free or very
little to get exposure or get published. Upon graduation i would never
had done this. Why, because i knew just by looking at my portfolio that
i DESERVED to get paid for my work. I wouldn't charge as much as
someone who had been in the business for 5-10-15 years but i would want
to get paid. The problem people are having with this person is that he
doesn't seem to respect that. I come to this newsgroup to learn, having
recently just bought PS 4.0. And i find it laughable when somebody says
they have invested a mere 80 hours in a project. And that their Internet
access costs them $150.00 a month. What a joke. I regularly spend
between $7,000 to $10,000 a month. And guess what, even from the first
day i hired someone i never asked anybody to work for FREE.
Coy Butler
Butler Photography
john blair moore
this: The jobs of any consequence I've gotten by doing freebies can be
counted without any fingers.
People who use that pitch are mostly insincere. Even if they start out
meaning it, they gain no respect for the value of work done for nothing, and
see it, and us, as worth very little. In the business world you get respect
by placing a value on your services. Notions of logic and fair play count
for zip.
JBM
Sniper wrote:
--
Don't just waste your life away on Email!
Waste your time at
http://www.meanwhile.com
or
http://www.3guys.com/jbm/jbm.htm
instead!
JMY
[snipped for brevity]
>The point I'm trying to make is don't be too pessimistic about startups.
>Most people are not out to rip you off. Over the next few years you'll
>probably see lots of posts like mine trying to create strategic alliances,
>trading for services instead of capital, etc. Some of them will become
>millionaires. When my project goes live in three weeks I'll probably have
>close to 80 hours invested. I'll also be paying over $150/month for a
>dedicated Internet line. There's no guarantee that I'll ever be compensated
>monetarily. Statistically I wont. But if it doesn't work out, I'll try
>again with something else. Not because I'm obsessed with money but I happen
>create art for a living!
I'd like to throw in an idea that we've used at our graphic design studio
to some (remains to be seen yet) limited success.
In the last few years we have developed a reputation for rolling out
identities, web sites and collateral for new startup companies. Perhaps
they're bigger than what the original poster above is attempting to do.
Perhaps not.
The one thing these startups have in common with <NOobjbuilder> is a
desire to look their best on _extremely_ limited funds.
No, we do not work for free (how could we pay the rent?). What we _do_ do
though is take a reduced amount of cash along with X number of shares of
common stock in their companies. After all, they're asking us to make
concessions to them for their agenda. Is turnabout not fair also?
There are a few considerations: We interview prospective startups hard to
see if _we_ believe in what they are doing, and whatever their product or
service is. If we don't believe in them, then there's no point in taking
on the graphics job.
If we do, we then require enough stock with the small amount of cash so
that, in essence, we are being compensated top dollar for the job if the
stock ever trades for more than a buck a share.So far we've been generally
pleased with the deals that we've made.
The cash factor is important though -- it makes the relationship more real
and vested to the client. No one respects anybody in business who gives
them something for free. That client will go on to think the designer a
stooge.
In this Internet era, the stock example seems a more accurate working model
for the metaphor of "starting in a garage," like what Apple's Woz and Jobs
did. No they did not make money to start. But they had _a lot_ of stock.
And now they have a lot of money.
Is anyone else out here doing this? If so, chime in.
Brett George
j...@nospam.com (JMY) wrote:
> In article <36EA9058...@home.com>, NOobjbui...@home.com wrote:
> [snipped for brevity]
> >The point I'm trying to make is don't be too pessimistic about startups.
> >Most people are not out to rip you off. Over the next few years you'll
> >probably see lots of posts like mine trying to create strategic alliances,
> >trading for services instead of capital, etc. Some of them will become
> >millionaires. When my project goes live in three weeks I'll probably have
> >close to 80 hours invested. I'll also be paying over $150/month for a
> >dedicated Internet line. There's no guarantee that I'll ever be compensated
> >monetarily. Statistically I wont. But if it doesn't work out, I'll try
> >again with something else. Not because I'm obsessed with money but I happen
> >to love what I do. I'm sure many of you can relate. After all, you get to
> >create art for a living!
Creating art IS fun but cash puts food on the table.
snip
> No, we do not work for free (how could we pay the rent?). What we _do_ do
> though is take a reduced amount of cash along with X number of shares of
> common stock in their companies. After all, they're asking us to make
> concessions to them for their agenda. Is turnabout not fair also?
snip
> The cash factor is important though -- it makes the relationship more real
> and vested to the client. No one respects anybody in business who gives
> them something for free. That client will go on to think the designer a
> stooge.
snip
> Is anyone else out here doing this? If so, chime in.
I try to do something similar when the situation calls for it. I'm a great
believer in the barter system. A little cash and some sort of tradeout in
services can go a long way.
brett
--
Brett George
Banzai Productions - Graphic Design & Illustration
br...@ior.com
http://www.ior.com/~brettg
http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Square/1195
cowsrneat
> After years of playing around with cameras i finally went to school and
> got a degree in photography. That took a lot of time and money. When i
> was in school i would have felt very good about working for free or very
> little to get exposure or get published. Upon graduation i would never
> had done this.
I never meant to suggest that working for free was for everyone. I agree
that if you spent the time and money to get a degree you deserve to be
paid for your work. Many aspiring graphic artists are still in school or
haven't yet gone to college. Those are the people that are trying to get
experience (and also, most paying jobs are left to people with degrees).
Anyway, the point is: I respect that you got a degree, and if you only
want to accept paying jobs, more power to you.
Craig Harrison
NOobjbui...@home.com wrote in message <36EA9058...@home.com>...
>Thanks to everyone who e-mailed me regarding the project. I've found a
>couple of good designers and hope to look forward to a successful venture.
I'm glad you found some people who are willing to work for nothing, and that
you'll do well in the future. That's good.
>
>I'd also like to comment on the above 'plumber' thread. It is definitely
>funny. I was laughing out loud myself. Nevertheless, something about the
>attitude of the post concerns me that I'd like to address.
>
>The days of a couple of guys making millions off of their garage invention
>is over for many of the technical fields; Chemistry, Biology, Electronics,
>etc. However, it's only just beginning in our field of Internet
>development. Programming languages and development tools have gotten easy
>enough to use that average developers can bring a concept to product in a
>matter of weeks. No longer do big companies have a monopoly on new
>businesses because it's the idea that counts.
You missed out the vital step in bringing a project from idea/conception to
reality. The knowledge in getting the project functioning correctly to
specification.
Bringing a concept to product is one thing.... Getting people to use that
product is another thing all together. Any one who thinks they can just
throw a few ideas in a package, and expect their great results to produce
great returns is mistaken. The ability to understand the market place, and
the concepts of design and functionality that surround that are the most
important points that are overlooked by many, bar professional companies,
consultants and designers. If you had things the way you say, everyone would
be using FP98 and PSP to do everything 'net. That's why 'net marketeers cost
a small fortune.
>
>The point I'm trying to make is don't be too pessimistic about start-ups.
>Most people are not out to rip you off. Over the next few years you'll
>probably see lots of posts like mine trying to create strategic alliances,
>trading for services instead of capital, etc. Some of them will become
>millionaires. When my project goes live in three weeks I'll probably have
>close to 80 hours invested. I'll also be paying over $150/month for a
>dedicated Internet line. There's no guarantee that I'll ever be
compensated
>monetarily. Statistically I wont. But if it doesn't work out, I'll try
>again with something else. Not because I'm obsessed with money but I
happen
>to love what I do. I'm sure many of you can relate. After all, you get to
>create art for a living!
You may be right that most people are not out to rip you off, but it's
easier to see a prospective hirers aim, when they are face to face. I do
work for free, but it's for people I know very, very well, and I know that
they will return the favour(s) in turn. I'm currently doing a similar system
with 3 other companies, but it has turned our hand to the construction of a
fully solicited contract and Limited status company, to ensure our
intentions and future.
Your statement "After all, you get to create art for a living!" is not based
upon your previous postings. People here pay their bills with money, and I
doubt that my debtors would accept a pat on the back as payment. Love don't
pay the bills.
>
>Does this mean I think everyone should work for free? Of course not. I
just
>hope that if you encounter someone who seems to be making a genuine
>bartering offer and your in a position to work with them, at least
>investigate, ask questions, make a counter offer. It could make all the
>difference.
This is the point that you should have posted first. Explain to people what
your situation is, as well as what you would like them to do, and what you
would provide them. Though you should realise that B2B Marketing is
currently viewing levels of payment from $95 (Basic HTML), $150 (Design) and
$170 an hour for database programming. (Figures quoted as averages, and
includes companies such as Saatchi & Saatchi Interactive), you should be a
little more cautious in you posting. My business partners have just
completed a search engine for our site, and according to figures being
banged around at the moment, that could cost you anything upto $500,000. Let
people know the whole story first, and paint a good picture of what they are
letting themselves in for, from the start.
If you ask the right question, you normally(!) get the right answer, and in
the highly priced world of the 'net, your original post would have asked the
impossible.
I hope it all goes well for you and that you may return to tell us of your
future success, as it's nice to see and hear.
C.
Craig Harrison
dscape - web propulsion and internet scientists
craig@!derby.co.uk
Project leaders for www.derby.co.uk
===============================================
Kenny A. Chaffin
>
> This is the point that you should have posted first. Explain to people what
> your situation is, as well as what you would like them to do, and what you
> would provide them. Though you should realise that B2B Marketing is
> currently viewing levels of payment from $95 (Basic HTML), $150 (Design) and
> $170 an hour for database programming. (Figures quoted as averages, and
> includes companies such as Saatchi & Saatchi Interactive), you should be a
> little more cautious in you posting. My business partners have just
> completed a search engine for our site, and according to figures being
> banged around at the moment, that could cost you anything upto $500,000. Let
> people know the whole story first, and paint a good picture of what they are
> letting themselves in for, from the start.
>
> If you ask the right question, you normally(!) get the right answer, and in
> the highly priced world of the 'net, your original post would have asked the
> impossible.
>
> I hope it all goes well for you and that you may return to tell us of your
> future success, as it's nice to see and hear.
>
> C.
>
> Craig Harrison
> dscape - web propulsion and internet scientists
> craig@!derby.co.uk
> Project leaders for www.derby.co.uk
> ===============================================
Hear, Hear!
--
KAC Website Design
Custom Programming, Web Design, and Graphics
ke...@kacweb.com - http://www.kacweb.com