CMYK, Rich Black & Overprinting in PS
Joy
I'm hoping someone can clear up a couple a few things for me (a
prepress/design novice trying to avoiding making enemies at the
outputting stage...!) or just point me in the direction of some
instructions/guides.
Situation:
I have several CMYK files in Photoshop 6.0.1 (Mac) which I am
linking/placing into Illustrator 9.02. The Photoshop files have
transparent backgrounds, one or two small black words floating on the
transparent part (9pt Photoshop-composed type) and they also have QUITE
thin black outlines around various bits (they are small cartoon
people...)
The cartoon people are quite strong primary-type colours, and the
backgrounds in Illustrator that they are sitting on, are various pastel
colours.
This file needs to be outputted to film....via Illustrator.
But I'm a bit flummoxed.....
My specific questions are these:
1. How can I set 'black' to overprint in Photoshop (for the small text,
and outlines of the pictures)? Is there even an option for this?
2. If this isn't possible will a prepress bureau be able to overprint
the imported Photoshop blacks, working FROM the Illustrator file alone?
(i.e. without having to edit the Photoshop images)
3. 'Rich black'
Photoshop does this whole rich black thing, which I haven't really had
to deal with before. I am concerned that if I allow the Photoshop type
to remain rich black, that I'll get horrible misregistration
(?)...especially on top of the pastels. But when I filled the type and
outlines with - K100%, and CMY 0% the onscreen separations show that
the black then knocks out the 3 colours.
I tried exporting the PS file into Quark, and Illustrator with the
same result in my virtual separations test.
3.a) Providing I have to sort this out myself, and not just hand it to
the bureau One option I thought of was creating a rich black to fill
the type and outlines making it from K100% and then the adding the
specific CMY percentages of the pastel-backgrounds...but I just can't
visualise if this is a GOOD idea or not?
4. Lastly! (if anyone's read this far) A REAL DUMMIES question: If
I ask the bureau to TRAP my Illustrator files will the trapping also
apply to the linked PS images as well? (Similar to question no.2 who
can do what, to what...)
I just can't seem to find this kind of information anywhere the
Photoshop is pretty hopeless...
So! Any advice would be much appreciated,
(think of the trouble you might be saving an unlucky bureau! LOL)
Joy
x
Tacit
>and outlines of the pictures)? Is there even an option for this?
No. No can do. This is one of the reasons you should avoid setting text in
Photoshop.
Remove the type from the Photoshop file. Place the type in Illustrator and set
it to overprint in Illustrator.
>2. If this isn't possible - will a prepress bureau be able to overprint
>the imported Photoshop blacks, working FROM the Illustrator file alone?
No.
>Photoshop does this whole rich black thing, which I haven't really had
>to deal with before. I am concerned that if I allow the Photoshop type
>to remain rich black, that I'll get horrible misregistration
>(?)...especially on top of the pastels.
Yes, you will. You must ensure that the type is black only (that is 0% C, 0% M,
0% Y, 100%K).
If you want the type to overprint only Photoshop elements, you can put it in a
layer and set its mode to Multiply. However, there is no way to make it
overprint elements created in another program, such as Illustrator. If you set
type in Photoshop and place it over a background in Illustrator, it will always
knock out.
>3.a) Providing I have to sort this out myself, and not just hand it to
>the bureau - One option I thought of was creating a rich black to fill
>the type and outlines - making it from K100% and then the adding the
>specific CMY percentages of the pastel-backgrounds...but I just can't
>visualise if this is a GOOD idea or not?
If the background is a solid color, it'll work. If not, it won't. Again, your
best bet is to remove the type from Photoshop, and set your type in
Illustrator.
> If
>I ask the bureau to TRAP my Illustrator files - will the trapping also
>apply to the linked PS images as well?
No.
Illustrator elements will trap to each other and to Photoshop elements.
However, anything created in Photoshop will NOT trap.
For doing cartoons, you're best off working entirely in Illustrator. Your black
outlines created in Photoshop won't overprint and won't trap.
Hope that helps...
--
"Quand la morale triomphe, il se passe des choses tres vilaines."
Literature. Art. Photography. Forums. Shareware. Kink. Sex.
All at: http://www.xeromag.com/franklin.html
Joy
<tac...@aol.com> wrote:
> >1. How can I set 'black' to overprint in Photoshop (for the small text,
> >and outlines of the pictures)? Is there even an option for this?
>
> No. No can do. This is one of the reasons you should avoid setting text in
> Photoshop.
Thanks SO much for your detailed reply!
Very helpful...!
> Remove the type from the Photoshop file. Place the type in Illustrator and set
> it to overprint in Illustrator.
I was hoping to avoid this (lots of PS files lots of words!) But from
everything you've said, it seems like the only 'safe' thing to do.
> >2. If this isn't possible - will a prepress bureau be able to overprint
> >the imported Photoshop blacks, working FROM the Illustrator file alone?
>
> No.
:(
:(
> >Photoshop does this whole rich black thing, which I haven't really had
> >to deal with before. I am concerned that if I allow the Photoshop type
> >to remain rich black, that I'll get horrible misregistration
> >(?)...especially on top of the pastels.
>
> Yes, you will. You must ensure that the type is black only (that is 0% C, 0%
> M,
> 0% Y, 100%K).
I'm going OFF this idea now...in spite of the extra work the other
option holds it just seems too risky somehow....
(Is it okay to use PS type, if it's remaining as a PS file for output?
They didn't seem to make it very practical...in some ways...)
> If you want the type to overprint only Photoshop elements, you can put it in a
> layer and set its mode to Multiply. However, there is no way to make it
> overprint elements created in another program, such as Illustrator. If you set
> type in Photoshop and place it over a background in Illustrator, it will
> always
> knock out.
I did just try this type to new layer, K100% only, set to multiply.
Then I linked PS native image into Illustrator (using the 'layers to
one object' mode and then printed 'virtual' separations....and the
type didn't seem to knock out the other plates...?
Perhaps I did it wrong?
Still. I'm not sure I trust Photoshop now....! <g>
> >3.a) Providing I have to sort this out myself, and not just hand it to
> >the bureau - One option I thought of was creating a rich black to fill
> >the type and outlines - making it from K100% and then the adding the
> >specific CMY percentages of the pastel-backgrounds...but I just can't
> >visualise if this is a GOOD idea or not?
>
> If the background is a solid color, it'll work. If not, it won't. Again, your
> best bet is to remove the type from Photoshop, and set your type in
> Illustrator.
The backgrounds are solid colours but they are quite pale....
I guess it would work, but the whole idea makes me very nervous. I can
envisage strange things happening....
> > If
> >I ask the bureau to TRAP my Illustrator files - will the trapping also
> >apply to the linked PS images as well?
>
> No.
I just didn't know this. Fascinating!
I know there is a TRAP command in Photoshop...but it always looked a
bit rough to me....How do people actually deal with trapping PS files?
What happens to them in other programmes, like Quark?
I was living under the MASSIVE (understatement!) illusion that a bureau
could trap anything from virtually anywhere obviously I need
educating!
Do you happen to know any online sources for this kind of info?
(trapping and specific software....?)
> Illustrator elements will trap to each other and to Photoshop elements.
> However, anything created in Photoshop will NOT trap.
>
> For doing cartoons, you're best off working entirely in Illustrator. Your black
> outlines created in Photoshop won't overprint and won't trap.
Unfortunately these cartoons were supplied this way to me, and if I
could wave a magic wand and make them appear as Illustrator files I
would (I kind of know Illustrator better) the only real option I have
to change anything about the layout is to remove the text and put it in
Illustrator....
Lucky I haven't got much to do for the next couple of days!! Eeek!
> Hope that helps...
It was bad news mostly for me <smile> But it was a great help, thank
you. At least I know what the pitfalls are....(many it seems!)
Joy
x
Jon Rabone
"Joy" <joyk...@mac.com> wrote in message
news:051020021340289102%joyk...@mac.com...
> Unfortunately these cartoons were supplied this way to me, and if I
> could wave a magic wand and make them appear as Illustrator files I
> would (I kind of know Illustrator better) the only real option I have
> to change anything about the layout is to remove the text and put it in
> Illustrator....
> Lucky I haven't got much to do for the next couple of days!! Eeek!
Joy,
You could try Adobe Streamline or something similar to convert the cartoons
to Illustrator vector art; for bold outlines and colours it ought to work
reasonably well. Might save you a few days.
http://www.adobe.com/products/streamline/
There's a free try-out (no save/print etc) available as well.
Jon.
Tacit
>They didn't seem to make it very practical...in some ways...)
As long as you print from Photoshop, yes. However, outputting Photoshop type
from another application may or may not work, depending on how the Photoshop
image is saved and the particular application you're using.
>I did just try this - type to new layer, K100% only, set to multiply.
>Then I linked PS native image into Illustrator (using the 'layers to
>one object' mode - and then printed 'virtual' separations....and the
>type didn't seem to knock out the other plates...?
Type set to Multiply will overprint anything it sits on top of in the Photoshop
file. However, if you place that type over an object in Illustrator, it will
knock out.
>I know there is a TRAP command in Photoshop...but it always looked a
>bit rough to me....
The Photoshop Trap command spreads light colors into dark colors--for example,
it will spread objects on the yellow plate. It can' create vector traps, and it
must (of course) trap by an integer number of pixels. It also tends to do funky
things with sharp corners.
It can't make a Photoshop image trap to an object in another application, such
as Illustrator.
>How do people actually deal with trapping PS files?
Normally, you don't; normally, you wouldn't set type in Photoshop, and
photographic images (such as scans) don't usually need to trap.
>What happens to them in other programmes, like Quark?
Quark objects, such as type set in Quark, will spread or knock out of a
Photoshop-created image; you can't choke Quark type to a Photoshop image. Quark
traps objects created in Quark to the Photoshop background, but it does not in
any way change the Photoshop image itself; Quark can't trap a Photoshop object
to another Photoshop object.
>I was living under the MASSIVE (understatement!) illusion that a bureau
>could trap anything from virtually anywhere
Nope--even a bureau can't trap, say, Photoshop type or a Photoshop vector
object.
Normally, a Photoshop image will be something like a scanned photograph, which
does not need to trap. Then you'd add, say, a logo or type to the Photoshop
image in a program like Quark; the logo or type will trap to the Photoshop
background, but that's it.
>Do you happen to know any online sources for this kind of info?
>(trapping and specific software....?)
One place to start is David Blatner's "Real World Scanning and Halftones." The
best thing for you to do, though, is talk to your local service bureau, who
will probably be willing to discuss any aspect of trapping you like. :)
big red
> object.
on things like screen shots which are 4 color black. Puts a real nice
keep away on 'em.
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