Problem Coloring Images
GSHATTERHAND
saved them in the PSP format. They are at 24 million colors. I'm using PSP 7.
I'm coloring them using the layer method…..creating a new layer for each
color, setting to the color mode, and painting on it. However, when I try and
use any of the colors on the far right side of the color palate…the colors
based on black and white, they just won't show up on the layers I've created.
(This would be colors R-0, B-0, G-0; R-32,B-32,G-32; R-64, B-64, G-64; R-128,
B-128, G-128; R-192, B-192, G-192; R-255, B-255, G-255. And I assume any other
colors within this range.)
I can paint directly on the image with these colors, but not on a layer above
the image.
Any of the other colors work fine and I can paint on the layers normally.
I'm sure it's simple and I'm missing it, but what is going on?
Jackie Laderoute
wrote:
>This really puzzles me. I have captured some b & w images from the WEB and
>saved them in the PSP format. They are at 24 million colors. I'm using PSP 7.
>
>I'm coloring them using the layer methodů..creating a new layer for each
>color, setting to the color mode, and painting on it. However, when I try and
>use any of the colors on the far right side of the color palateůthe colors
>based on black and white, they just won't show up on the layers I've created.
>(This would be colors R-0, B-0, G-0; R-32,B-32,G-32; R-64, B-64, G-64; R-128,
>B-128, G-128; R-192, B-192, G-192; R-255, B-255, G-255. And I assume any other
>colors within this range.)
>
>I can paint directly on the image with these colors, but not on a layer above
>the image. Any of the other colors work fine and I can paint on the layers normally.
>
>I'm sure it's simple and I'm missing it, but what is going on?
You're using colour mode - those, technically, are not colours. Try
placing them on their own layer, set to normal blend, and use the
opacity slider to get the detail you want.
Jackie
--
< o \"/ Don't play cat and mouse with me! (
---@ ) ()-()
< o /"\ Jackie Laderoute jflad...@shaw.ca (o o)
*****************************************************************/\o/\
Kris Zaklika
>
> This really puzzles me. I have captured some b & w images from the WEB and
> saved them in the PSP format. They are at 24 million colors. I'm using PSP 7.
>
> I'm coloring them using the layer method…..creating a new layer for each
> color, setting to the color mode, and painting on it. However, when I try and
> use any of the colors on the far right side of the color palate…the colors
> based on black and white, they just won't show up on the layers I've created.
> (This would be colors R-0, B-0, G-0; R-32,B-32,G-32; R-64, B-64, G-64; R-128,
> B-128, G-128; R-192, B-192, G-192; R-255, B-255, G-255. And I assume any other
> colors within this range.)
We have to start with understanding color. Normal colors have
a distinct hue. These are the colors for which we use names
like red, blue, magenta, yellow, etc. When the color is vivid,
its saturation is high. When it is washed out or muddy its
saturation is low. In addition to these "normal" colors there
as colors that don't have any hue, which are called achromatic
colors. They all have a saturation of zero and differ from
each other by their perceived lightness. Colors in this category
are white, black and shades of grey. The Color blend mode is
based on using the luminance of the underlying layer with the
hue and saturation of the layer you are painting on. When you
paint with a color that doesn't have hue and saturation, then
you won't be able to see an effect that is based on those two
very properties, which is what the Color blend mode needs.
GSHATTERHAND
>From: Jackie Laderoute jflad...@shaw.ca
>Date: 2/26/04 6:50 PM Eastern Standard Time
>You're using colour mode - those, technically, are not colours. Try>placing
them on their own layer, set to normal blend, and use the>opacity slider to get
the detail you want.
Thank you, Jackie. I'll try this. And thank you, Kris, for the detailed
explanation.
GSHATTERHAND
>From: Kris Zaklika kzak...@jasc.com
>Date: 2/26/04 8:36 PM Eastern Standard Time
>The Color blend mode is>based on using the luminance of the underlying layer
with the>hue and saturation of the layer you are painting on. When you>paint
with a color that doesn't have hue and saturation, then>you won't be able to
see an effect that is based on those two>very properties, which is what the
Color blend mode needs.
I thought I understood this but as I've continued working I'm puzzled again.
On some of the images I can't create a layer in color mode and then paint with
flesh color on that layer. It either doesn't show or shows very faintly no
matter what opacity the layer is set at. Even 100%!
Why not? Flesh color does have hue and saturation, right? Based on the
explanation Kris provided, if I'm attempting to paint with black or white on a
layer in color mode, I can see why the color wouldn't show. But why wouldn't it
show if I'm painting with a TRUE COLOR, over a black and white image, on a
layer set to color mode?
This is making me wonder why the tutorial at
http://www.frontiernet.net/~willshak/photocolor/ works at all. At that tutorial
am I not painting on a layer in color mode over a black and white image? It
seems that's the same thing I'm trying to do here.
Is there something technical about capturing an image from the WEB that makes
certain parts of the image react differently with painting over them on a layer
in color mode, with a true color? (Not black and white.) Why do some images
paint normally and others not?
Fugitive
wrote:
If you paint on a layer above a black with normal mode, you can modify
it for colorizing. I did dozens of colorizations on B&W photos, but I
only use normal layers, no modes. If this is no help.................
Gallery http://www.picturetrail.com/fugitive1
http://gregsplace.50megs.com
Kris Zaklika
>
> >Subject: Re: Problem Coloring Images
> >From: Kris Zaklika kzak...@jasc.com
> >Date: 2/26/04 8:36 PM Eastern Standard Time
>
> >The Color blend mode is>based on using the luminance of the underlying layer
> with the>hue and saturation of the layer you are painting on. When you>paint
> with a color that doesn't have hue and saturation, then>you won't be able to
> see an effect that is based on those two>very properties, which is what the
> Color blend mode needs.
>
> I thought I understood this but as I've continued working I'm puzzled again.
>
> On some of the images I can't create a layer in color mode and then paint with
> flesh color on that layer. It either doesn't show or shows very faintly no
> matter what opacity the layer is set at. Even 100%!
>
> Why not? Flesh color does have hue and saturation, right? Based on the
> explanation Kris provided, if I'm attempting to paint with black or white on a
> layer in color mode, I can see why the color wouldn't show. But why wouldn't it
> show if I'm painting with a TRUE COLOR, over a black and white image, on a
> layer set to color mode?
Suppose your base color is black and you paint flesh color
on a layer above using the Color blend mode. The resulting
color you see has the hue and saturation of flesh but the
lightness of black. What is the color of skin in a perfectly
dark room? Why, black of course :) You've discovered another
property of human vision. There are no vividly saturated
colors with a distinct hue that are very, very dark or very,
very light. There is no such thing as a vivid very dark
yellow or a vivid very light yellow. Set yellow as the color
in the Material Palette and slowly adjust the Lightness value
downwards from 128. First the color turns khaki at around 64
and then by 32 or so it starts to look black. Now try raising
the Lightness. At 192 you have a pastel shade and by 223 you
see something that is vaguely off-white. Another thing to
try. Fill an image with a black to white gradient. Then paint
on the empty layer above (set to Color blend mode) using
different colors. Inspect carefully what you see.
> This is making me wonder why the tutorial at
> http://www.frontiernet.net/~willshak/photocolor/ works at all. At that tutorial
> am I not painting on a layer in color mode over a black and white image? It
> seems that's the same thing I'm trying to do here.
You can colorize grey areas of a black and white image. If
the image literally contains only black and white and no
other shades you can't colorize anything until you have
lightened the blacks and darkened the whites, for example
by setting Output Min to 31 and Output Max to 223 in
Histogram Adjustment. You will see exactly the same effect
in the Colorize filter.
> Is there something technical about capturing an image from the WEB that makes
> certain parts of the image react differently with painting over them on a layer
> in color mode, with a true color? (Not black and white.) Why do some images
> paint normally and others not?
No, it's not web related. Unfortunately, color is a very
complicated thing. It is a matter of human perception and
not subject to exact measurement at the current state of
the art. Other things we haven't discussed include pure blue
being a very dark color and pure yellow being a very light
color even though they appear to have the same lightness
when characterized using HSL. Nor have we discussed how
the human eye and brain adapt to different shades of white.
You would call a white wall white irrespective of objective
measurement showing it to be bluish in sky light and
yellowish in incandescent light. There are many more weird
and wonderful things in the world of color :)
GSHATTERHAND
>> . . . . Another thing to try. Fill an image with a black to white gradient.
Then paint
>>on the empty layer above (set to Color blend mode) using different colors.
Inspect >>carefully what you see.
I tried this. It helps.
>>There are many more weird and wonderful things in the world of color :)
Sure are! But some of those things are making trouble for me right now! I
appreciate your wisdom on this, Kris.
From: Fugitive greg...@earthlink.net
Date: 2/27/04 2:28 PM Eastern Standard Time
>>If you paint on a layer above a black with normal mode, you can modify
>>it for colorizing. I did dozens of colorizations on B&W photos, but I
>>only use normal layers, no modes. If this is no help.................
I guess in some cases I'll have to do it this way. It's encouraging to hear
it's worked for you. Thanks.