Too tiny previews in filters (eg. iwarp)
Fr@nk Stef@ni
using iwarp very seldom and working on big photos,
it is virtually impossible to control the influence
of the warping effect:
* the original 3744 x 5616 px are squeezed
togther to about 720 x 980 px at most
* no zoom-in and no move aaound available
* no lupe available
Are there alternative plugins/filters for warping?
TIA for any help,
Frank
rich
Same as you, I don't using warping very much, g'mic plugin has a section
for various warps.
http://gmic.sourceforge.net/gimp.shtml
otherwise, if you use linux, its not gimp, but fotoxx has a warping tool.
http://kornelix.squarespace.com/fotoxx/
--
rich
Ilya Zakharevich
> using iwarp very seldom and working on big photos,
> it is virtually impossible to control the influence
> of the warping effect:
>
> * the original 3744 x 5616 px are squeezed
> togther to about 720 x 980 px at most
[I did not try it:] What about rotatiing the image 90degrees before
warp?
Ilya
Fr@nk Stef@ni
Not really helpful as you always get at most 980 px,
so you can't look at details at 100% or bigger :)
I always wonder why the preview image in most filters
it 1/8th of the whole screen at most while three small
sliders an some buttons waste huge space on the rest
of the available area. This is really annoying.
BTW, we can make a selection of any image part und thus
see only this selection. Anyways, the visible region is
too small and the lack of a visible cursor, feather and
radius is a real pain for precise work, eg. beauty retouching.
Regards,
Frank
Fr@nk Stef@ni
Thanks for the links! I use gmic every now and then
which is a powerful and really useful tool box. The
(funny) warp tools are not useful for my needs as I
mostly need them for beauty retouching portraits.
Customers won't love comic charakters but rather like
subtle improvements :-)
The Gimps iwarp would be perfect, with radius and undo
and so on. Sorrily it lacks a useful interface/preview.
As you mentioned fotoxx - the preview there is great
and fast, too. It's a bit unhandy, though, and sorrily
does only offer gimmick/comic like warp features, no
visible cursor, no dimension parameters and so on.
Regards,
Frank
rich
> rich schrieb:
>> On Sat, 17 Oct 2009 15:37:07 +0200, Fr@nk Stef@ni wrote:
>>
>>> Hello all,
>>>
>>> using iwarp very seldom and working on big photos, it is virtually
>>> impossible to control the influence of the warping effect:
>>>
>>> * the original 3744 x 5616 px are squeezed
>>> togther to about 720 x 980 px at most
>>> * no zoom-in and no move aaound available * no lupe available
>>>
>>> Are there alternative plugins/filters for warping?
>>>
>> Same as you, I don't using warping very much, g'mic plugin has a
>> section for various warps.
>>
>> http://gmic.sourceforge.net/gimp.shtml
>>
>> otherwise, if you use linux, its not gimp, but fotoxx has a warping
>> tool. http://kornelix.squarespace.com/fotoxx/
>
> Thanks for the links! I use gmic every now and then which is a powerful
> and really useful tool box. The (funny) warp tools are not useful for my
> needs as I mostly need them for beauty retouching portraits. Customers
> won't love comic charakters but rather like subtle improvements :-)
>
> The Gimps iwarp would be perfect, with radius and undo and so on.
> Sorrily it lacks a useful interface/preview.
Looking at your other post and the use of iWarp, which parameter do you
use; Move, Grow, Shrink, perhaps there is another filter that covers that
function.
Also is it not possible to select an area and apply iWarp just to that
area. The selected area shows in the preview box, so plenty magnification
but not as good as a loupe.
The usual lame screenshot is here:
http://www.imageno.com/lc493m7s7pnqpic.html
imageno compress the image to death but it is a fast service.
>
> As you mentioned fotoxx - the preview there is great and fast, too. It's
> a bit unhandy, though, and sorrily does only offer gimmick/comic like
> warp features, no visible cursor, no dimension parameters and so on.
>
I can see how it is not applicable to your requirements but just in case
this puts people off trying fotoxx, because it is a lot of fun. It works
on the whole image, so maximum zoom is 200%. The warp function is applied
to a selection, big or small, any-shape by dragging with the cursor hence
the lack of parameters.
Since you are using linux, can you enable the pspi plugin. This worked
for me on gimp 2.2, partially on gimp 2.4 and gave up the ghost with gimp
2.6 but there are many PS .8bf plugins about that distort to some degree.
--
rich
Ofnuts
> I always wonder why the preview image in most filters
> it 1/8th of the whole screen at most while three small
> sliders an some buttons waste huge space on the rest
> of the available area. This is really annoying.
>
Because the preview applies the filter to a small part of the image and
so runs much faster (64x faster, if you reduce dimensions to 1/8 of the
whole picture) and can be shown in <quote size='huge'>real time</quote>.
--
Bertrand
rich
> On Sat, 17 Oct 2009 22:06:42 +0200, Fr@nk Stef@ni wrote:
>
>> rich schrieb:
>>> On Sat, 17 Oct 2009 15:37:07 +0200, Fr@nk Stef@ni wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hello all,
>>>>
>>>> using iwarp very seldom and working on big photos, it is virtually
>>>> impossible to control the influence of the warping effect:
>>>>
>>>> * the original 3744 x 5616 px are squeezed
>>>> togther to about 720 x 980 px at most
>>>> * no zoom-in and no move aaound available * no lupe available
>>>>
>>>> Are there alternative plugins/filters for warping?
>>>>
<snip>
>>
>> The Gimps iwarp would be perfect, with radius and undo and so on.
>> Sorrily it lacks a useful interface/preview.
>
> Looking at your other post and the use of iWarp, which parameter do you
> use; Move, Grow, Shrink, perhaps there is another filter that covers
> that function.
> Also is it not possible to select an area and apply iWarp just to that
> area. The selected area shows in the preview box, so plenty
> magnification but not as good as a loupe.
>
<snip>
I see you already addressed the use of selections and ruled that out
How about a screen magnifyer, the debian one is kmag; shown here:
http://www.imageno.com/veyeeh14s73upic.html
--
rich
Vince Young
I have been trying to get g'mic to run for a while using the download
from the sourceforge.net site and, not finding it after intallation in
GIMP's filter folder, attempt to run the executable file gmic_gimp and
constantly get "missing dll" messages. What am I doing wrong? Thanks
rich
> On Sun, 18 Oct 2009 08:41:31 +0000, rich wrote:
>
>> On Sat, 17 Oct 2009 22:06:42 +0200, Fr@nk Stef@ni wrote:
>>
>>> rich schrieb:
>>>> On Sat, 17 Oct 2009 15:37:07 +0200, Fr@nk Stef@ni wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Hello all,
>>>>>
>>>>> using iwarp very seldom and working on big photos, it is virtually
>>>>> impossible to control the influence of the warping effect:
>>>>>
>>>>> * the original 3744 x 5616 px are squeezed
>>>>> togther to about 720 x 980 px at most
>>>>> * no zoom-in and no move aaound available * no lupe available
>>>>>
>>>>> Are there alternative plugins/filters for warping?
>>>>>
> <snip>
>>>
>>> The Gimps iwarp would be perfect, with radius and undo and so on.
>>> Sorrily it lacks a useful interface/preview.
>>
> <snip>
>
> I see you already addressed the use of selections and ruled that out
>
> How about a screen magnifyer, the debian one is kmag; shown here:
> http://www.imageno.com/veyeeh14s73upic.html
Taking it one step further - maximise the Iwarp window and use a screen
magnifier, you might *just* with your largish images get the control you
require. Usual screen shot
http://www.imageno.com/eh3z65ip7a4rpic.html
--
rich
rich
Thats a strange one, because I do know it runs in windows gimp.
Just tried it to confirm and the file from sourceforge;
gmic_gimp_win32.zip contains
gmic_gimp.exe libpng3.dll pthreadGC2.dll zlib.dll
libfftw3-3.dll wget.exe
so check you have all of those
popped these into \Documents and Settings\Administrator\.gimp-2.6\plug-ins
and it works. Maybe the Administrator bit is necessary but I would not
think so.
Otherwise
put them in
C:\Program Files\Gimp-2.0\lib\gimp\2.0\plugins
You should not need to run the executable gmic_gimp.exe. Bottom of the
filters menu - a G'Mic entry. It will be greyed out until you open an
image.
best of luck
--
rich
Fr@nk Stef@ni
First aid: For a complete different topic please open up
a complete new thread at first. Use a meaningful subject line
and you have high chances to receive appropriate support ;)
Also, add details about your operating system and Gimp version
in use.
HTH,
Frank
Fr@nk Stef@ni
This is then a design misconception: The decision whether a user
wants fast small preview or full size application with some delay
should be up to the user. CPUs and RAM are getting cheaper all the
time and even real time application of an effect is very fast on
a quad core with 8 GB of RAM - fotoxx was recognized to be really
fast, btw.
Another example would be LightZone: It allows multiple preview size
steps. At 1/1 size it es rather slow, even on a fast machine but if
you switch to, say, 1/3 preview size it becomes lightning fast.
I know and use gimp since version 0.54 (1993 I think). Since then
Gimp preview dialogs sustain in offering tiny preview space even
at full screen and waste most of the space for only a handfull
of sliders and buttons.
Fr@nk Stef@ni
>>>> The Gimps iwarp would be perfect, with radius and undo and so on.
>>>> Sorrily it lacks a useful interface/preview.
>>
>> I see you already addressed the use of selections and ruled that out
>>
>> How about a screen magnifyer, the debian one is kmag; shown here:
>> http://www.imageno.com/veyeeh14s73upic.html
>
> Taking it one step further - maximise the Iwarp window and use a screen
> magnifier, you might *just* with your largish images get the control you
> require. Usual screen shot
> http://www.imageno.com/eh3z65ip7a4rpic.html
big thanks for your time and thoughts, very helpful discussion!
I made some screen shots which are temporarily available on my server:
http://frank-stefani.de/tmp/gimp-iwarp-1.jpg
--------------------------------------------
* canvas size 4000 x 3022 px, shown at 33.3%
* rather square selection
http://frank-stefani.de/tmp/gimp-iwarp-2.jpg
--------------------------------------------
* iwarp open, shows the selction at unknown size
http://frank-stefani.de/tmp/gimp-iwarp-3.jpg
--------------------------------------------
* canvas shown at 100%, compared to iwarp preview
* selection preview is still much smaller
http://frank-stefani.de/tmp/gimp-iwarp-4.jpg
--------------------------------------------
* maximized iwarp preview
* for an unknown reason, the black area is not used
by the preview
* still no size indication (100% or what??)
http://frank-stefani.de/tmp/gimp-iwarp-5.jpg
--------------------------------------------
* full screen dialog moved apart
* visual impression is that the iwarp preview should
be about 100% of the selection size
We still cannot move around, nor can we increase or decrease the zoom.
We may do some warps here but saving, going back to the main image,
rejecting or reselecting and starting over from scratch or beeing
unable to correct an overdone spot afterwards is quirky at best ...
I mean, it's not that we are talking about unsolvable issues. Many
current image processors have a more convenient and efficient
implementation of previews and realtime or very fast application
of filters even on big images.
BTW, my examples above are with shrinked images at about 12 Mpx,
my original images are 21 Mpx, ie. rather the double size which
worsens the situation.
Regards,
Frank
Ofnuts
> This is then a design misconception: The decision whether a user
> wants fast small preview or full size application with some delay
> should be up to the user.
This is one of the thing "undo" is meant for, no?
--
Bertrand
Fr@nk Stef@ni
Really? So trial-and-error is the intended way to go ;-)
rich
What a surprise, a bearded collie, how can you make such a dog even more
beautiful.
The other way, maybe, is a hardware route. Some years ago I would red-
line and comment construction drawings. Of course the company had gone
paperless and used Bentley Microstation.
Two monitors + suitable video card were essential. One for the overview
and one for the detail.
--
rich
Jernej Simončič
> I know and use gimp since version 0.54 (1993 I think). Since then
> Gimp preview dialogs sustain in offering tiny preview space even
> at full screen and waste most of the space for only a handfull
> of sliders and buttons.
There's some limitation in the current code that requires the previews to
be square-shaped to work efficiently. If you can work around this
limitation (while keeping the speed), I'm sure the GIMP developers will be
happy to accept your patch.
--
begin .sig
< Jernej Simončič ><>◊<>< jernej|s-ng at eternallybored.org >
end
Fr@nk Stef@ni
> What a surprise, a bearded collie, how can you make such a dog even more
> beautiful.
Hah ... welcome insider :-)
Got one?
You may want to click around at http://frank-stefani.de/product/
> The other way, maybe, is a hardware route. Some years ago I would red-
> line and comment construction drawings. Of course the company had gone
> paperless and used Bentley Microstation.
> Two monitors + suitable video card were essential. One for the overview
> and one for the detail.
I'm sure I won't buy a 30" monitor just to get a bigger preview at
Fr@nk Stef@ni
> What a surprise, a bearded collie, how can you make such a dog even more
> beautiful.
Hah ... welcome insider :-)
Got one?
You may want to click around at http://frank-stefani.de/product/
> The other way, maybe, is a hardware route. Some years ago I would red-
> line and comment construction drawings. Of course the company had gone
> paperless and used Bentley Microstation.
> Two monitors + suitable video card were essential. One for the overview
> and one for the detail.
I'm sure I won't buy a 30" monitor just to get a bigger preview
for a gimp dialog box ;-) 1200 x 1200 pixels would easily fit
on my 24" screen if the current dialog layout would allow that
big a square.
Beside this boring preview limitation there is only one thing
that's on my wish list for a couple of years now: Full 16-bit
color depth support with Gimp. Otherwise I am completely
satisfied with Gimp under Linux. Yes, I know there is GEGL
but missing rumours show me that even gimp-2.8 will not be
16/48-bit color depth capable, eg. reading, processing and
writing 16-bit TIFF. So it will need at least one more year.
Regards,
Frank
Fr@nk Stef@ni
> on Sun, 18 Oct 2009 14:35:31 +0200, Fr@nk Stef@ni wrote:
>
>> I know and use gimp since version 0.54 (1993 I think). Since then
>> Gimp preview dialogs sustain in offering tiny preview space even
>> at full screen and waste most of the space for only a handfull
>> of sliders and buttons.
>
> There's some limitation in the current code that requires the previews to
> be square-shaped to work efficiently. If you can work around this
> limitation (while keeping the speed), I'm sure the GIMP developers will be
> happy to accept your patch.
I would surely contribute if I had the knowledge and expertise
to do so. I can't debug and/or release code patches, instead
I contribute to other projects, mostly essays, reports and images.
BTW, thanks to this thread I found out that we can get a reasonable
preview size of 1000 x 1000 px when making the selection *exactly*
square. This helps a lot!
Regards,
Frank