Alias Success
Tom Alessi
heart is in 3d animation and it has been with my trust amiga for the past
8 years. Right now I am trying to take advantage of the Indy Studio
program where I can get a decent Indy with PowerAnimator7 and some other
goodies. I don't have the cash on hand.. I'm a college student. 8-) Since
my father is paying my tuition I don't have any loans ect. I have a
feeling that it may not be a bad idea to take out a student loan for my
tuition and ask my dad to help me buy this machine. I want to have a
machine that I can use at my convience so I can learn PowerAnimator and
ultimately gain enough experience on it to get a job. Am I right in saying
that "If I learn Alias fairly well I will be able to find a job easier
than with my current knowledge of LightWave. And this job will ultimately
pay a higher salary and that will justify the initial investment." I am
looking for people who can back this with their own experience with
success with this technology. Before my dad loans me this money he wants
to be assured that I am not making a big mistake. So help me PLEASE.. I
know someone out there has done well with this....
Thanks...
Joe DiValerio
tpal...@netaxs.com
Dann M. Stubbs
From all of my experience it is TALENT that will get you the job. Knowing
Alias, LW or 3D studio and a buck will get you a cup of coffee. This is
the number one problem with our field right now. All these people think
just knowing how to push a couple of buttons from a certain interface will
get them the job.
I've seen work from Ray Dream Designer that would make me hire that person
on the spot. And I've seen total garbage from students with access to 100
SGI's and full PowerAnimator packages. Too many students in particular
can talk the talk but can't back up their claims.
Mosty big studios don't care what you use it's how you use it. Now maybe
some small hack shops that are doing jobs based on "it's done on SGI"
might want to hire you becasue "you have an sgi" But as the clients out
there are getting more sophisticated and learning that sgi does not make
it look good alone, you will have a short career.
Focus on your talent, and if you don't have any - wake up and realize it
now. Just becasue you may *want* to be a 3D god, dosn't mean you will. If
you do have talent then more power to you and my best wishes. It's just
there are schools here in florida turning out droves of "3d artists"
everyday who are totally clueless, but they think this piece of paper
makes them talented. Just the other day I asked one of these 3D artist
graduates to not over-salt my french fries. Remember anybody with enough
money can go to school long enough to get a degree in anything.
In short don't waste all your life reaching for a goal you can't attain.
Focus on your strengths.
I know artists in their late 40's who just can't figure out why they can't
get a job as an illustrator. After 25 years groveling in the field they
can't realize it's because they are no good. Don't let that happen.
Hope this helps, and i don't mean to be harsh on you, but the real world
outside of classes is far harder.
Best of luck,
Dann
--
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Dann M. Stubbs
Dark Sky Digital - Computer Animation + Digital Effects
Altamonte Springs, Florida USA
da...@darkskydigital.com
http://www.darkskydigital.com
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All original text contained in posting Copyright 1996 Dark Sky Digital
Grifter65
Ultimatly you're investing in youself. Buying the box is'nt a bad idea,
but don't write checks your talent can't cash!
8 yr. Vet.
Jesus Diaz
And of course, if you have the Talent and access to stuff like Alias,
you can put push your creativity even further. Talent+Great
Tools=Better, Faster Work.
jesusDiaz /zinetika
Kevin Geiger
>machine that I can use at my convience so I can learn PowerAnimator and
>ultimately gain enough experience on it to get a job. Am I right in saying
>that "If I learn Alias fairly well I will be able to find a job easier
>than with my current knowledge of LightWave. And this job will ultimately
>pay a higher salary and that will justify the initial investment." I am
Experience with Alias (or any high-end package for that matter)
certainly helps your employment prospects, but at the same time
it's no guarantee of anything. A lot depends on what you'll be
doing (modeling, animation, lighting, etc...), where you'll be
doing it, and to what end (visual effects, games, industrial
design...)
You can't go very wrong learning Alias, especially for modeling,
but you should exhaust all other avenues of access to the software
before you plunk down a chunk of change for your own home package
(especially if you're still in school.)
Good luck!
Kevin
Kevin Geiger
Why are you two automatically assuming that this kid doesn't
have any talent? Where was that stated in his post? It *is*
possible to make your points about aesthetic skills and software
without the self-congratulatory posturing. Nice attitude, guys.
Kevin Geiger
Grifter65
so few have it, so many don't.
shanahan joseph
And I need a job, I am a fine art painter with works in some gallery
shows and many a sold painting . That is a job that takes only talent and
more talent. All of "you we can animate and we have jobs doing it" need
to come of your high places and try to make art instead of commercials and
then see if you are considered talented.
Back to my question.
As a graduation senior with a years worth of work in Alias, and 3 monthes
in softimage and composer,
1. how much money is an entry level animatior( with talent) going to get
paid.
2.Any advice on creation of demo reels or places to apply are gretly
appreciated.
Please help me in my job quest.
but please note that I am looking for a day job, I will always be a
painter firts and formost ( ever try to buy a car with fine artist as an
occupation)
jsh...@gl.umbc.edu
Dann M. Stubbs
In article <4ltvdd$4...@cabinboy.studio.disney.com>, Kevin Geiger
<kge...@fa.disney.com> wrote:
| Why are you two automatically assuming that this kid doesn't
| have any talent? Where was that stated in his post? It *is*
| possible to make your points about aesthetic skills and software
| without the self-congratulatory posturing. Nice attitude, guys.
|
| Kevin Geiger
Nice assumption yourself...
I think that he was at least happy that someone at least answered the
question. Usually these go unanswered becasue there are millions like it
flooding the net. The only reason I answered was he wrote intelligently
and made his case clearly. You can tell the complete morons out there who
write vague questions with no tangeble point, I skip them.
Most people don't have to ask about whethere another tool will make them
better. How many photographers ask if a certain camera will make them a
more skilled photographer. Paintbrushes? Will the camel hair soft-tip #5
make me paint like Renoir?
Usually the person who knows they are talented can discern what it will
take to move themselves to the next level. Granted, his question was
intelligent so I knew it wouldn't be a complete waste of time to answer.
It was not directed in anywhere near that way. He actually emailed me and
thanked me for the "real-world view" and honest opinion. I have had a
private email discussion with him, and he didn't take it that way at all.
In fact even though I myself admitted my posting was little on the harsh
side, it was not directed at him. Read it again it is in there.
It is just 98% of the posts of this kind are written by complete morons
who live and breathe on the hype surrounding this industry. Maybe if more
people where a little more honest, there wouldn't be so many dreamers
with stars in their eyes. If only the computer industry didn't live on
hype alone.
Gee, maybe I'll go to Hollywood and become a movie star, as well as a
professional animator!
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Dann M. Stubbs
Dark Sky Digital - Computer Animation + Digital Effects
Altamonte Springs, Florida USA
da...@darkskydigital.com
Dann M. Stubbs
In article <Pine.SGI.3.91.96042...@xsg02.gl.umbc.edu>,
shanahan joseph <jsh...@gl.umbc.edu> wrote:
| And I need a job, I am a fine art painter with works in some gallery
| shows and many a sold painting . That is a job that takes only talent and
| more talent. All of "you we can animate and we have jobs doing it" need
| to come of your high places and try to make art instead of commercials and
| then see if you are considered talented.
Talent is also very subjective... I've seen a spot on a canvas sell for
$40,000. Beauty and talent are in the eye of the beholder. The largest
talent of modern famous painters are in knowing how to market their
paintings in such a way to create demand for such a limited supply,
thereby driving the prices up. The real talent in that is marketing not
painting.
| Please help me in my job quest.
| but please note that I am looking for a day job, I will always be a
| painter firts and formost ( ever try to buy a car with fine artist as an
| occupation)
| jsh...@gl.umbc.edu
Maybe you should have thought about that before being so talented.
Is talent being able to thoroughly enjoy your craft while you create
desirable work to earn a decent living and provide a good life for your
family? Or to keep producing "objects" that in your eyes are considered
beauty regardless of the rest of the worlds view? Being from .edu I figure
it's safe to assume you still have a few years to figure this one out....
good luck.
I have paintings I've done over the years in my closet that many people
have said should be shown in a gallery. I do "fine art" for my own
pleasure. Maybe you should work on your job hunting skills instead of your
painting ones.... unless you like begging for help in public.
A closing thought... do you comprehend you are basically begging for help
to the same people in "high places" that you are berating?
going to climb back up on my mountain....
David Hofmann
tpal...@netaxs.com (Tom Alessi) wrote:
>looking for people who can back this with their own experience with
>success with this technology. Before my dad loans me this money he wants
It worked for me. Since I got my Alias I have more work than I can do.
-David Hofmann
Del...@europeonline.com
10011...@compuserve.com
http://www.presair.com/usr/dhofmann/
shanahan joseph
I'm just trying to get into the high places you are at.
I do fine art for my own pleasure and enjoyment, like yourself, and like
yourself i'm trying to get a job to support it.
I posted to this group for help with my job hunting skills (they need it)
and asked questions partaning to that.
I was told to get Talent by people who had not see my work.
At present I will assume that nobody is going to answer my original
question .
See Ya
(some people at .edu have already been in the real world)
` jsh...@gl.umbc.edu
Willard E. Love
shanahan joseph (jsh...@gl.umbc.edu) wrote:
(stuff gone)
First you insult people and then ask for their help.
--
Willard E. Love "You know, a long time ago being
will...@teleport.com crazy meant something. Nowadays
everybody's crazy." --CHARLES MANSON
http://www.teleport.com/~willarde/
derrick...@sierra.com
shanahan joseph
Some times I forget that I'm talking to people who don't know me, so that
any form of wit is lost in translation.
Please forgive me while I crawl in a hole and Die
See Ya
Duff Hendrickson
reply to shanahan joseph
I'd like to encourage you as an artist to use animation as an art form.
The job market for qualified animators in the high-end usually means one
must have both certified training in software such as Alias and Softimage.
If you are not able to get into high-end training for animation because of
the cost I suggest using something less costly such as lightwave software
on a pentium, and BE CREATIVE.
I'm certain there is a future for talented artists to sell media-art as
ART. It may not be any easier than selling a painting.
But be aware that the commercial-industrial world and the art world are
two very different universes.
The price to get in the commercial world is high.
The price to make it in the art world is, well,, you know. unpredictable.
If you can't go high tech commercial,, go low tech high-art.
Kevin Geiger
d...@darkskydigital.com (Dann M. Stubbs) wrote:
>In article <Pine.SGI.3.91.96042...@xsg02.gl.umbc.edu>,
>shanahan joseph <jsh...@gl.umbc.edu> wrote:
|
| And I need a job, I am a fine art painter with works in some gallery
| shows and many a sold painting . That is a job that takes only talent and
| more talent. All of "you we can animate and we have jobs doing it" need
| to come of your high places and try to make art instead of commercials and
| then see if you are considered talented.
|
>Talent is also very subjective...
| Please help me in my job quest.
| but please note that I am looking for a day job, I will always be a
| painter firts and formost ( ever try to buy a car with fine artist as an
| occupation)
| jsh...@gl.umbc.edu
>Is talent being able to thoroughly enjoy your craft while you create
>desirable work to earn a decent living and provide a good life for your
>family? Or to keep producing "objects" that in your eyes are considered
>
>A closing thought... do you comprehend you are basically begging for help
>to the same people in "high places" that you are berating?
> Dann M. Stubbs
I have to agree with Dann on this one. Many people in the field have
practiced/studied "fine" art at some point and still continue to do so.
But the amount of "talent" fine art requires is up for grabs since there
is no definitive criteria for evaluation (I say this as a person with degrees
in painting, sculpture, and CGI, for whatever it's worth.) It takes a great
deal of skill, talent, and sensitivity to work with and satisfy a client.
The tenor of your post suggests that you should avoid production at all
costs. Although the money is good, you won't like the work, the hours, or
the necessary compromises that arise from providing a service to a client.
Kevin Geiger
Andrew McClary
shanahan joseph wrote:
>
> And I need a job, I am a fine art painter with works in some gallery
> shows and many a sold painting . That is a job that takes only talent and
> more talent. All of "you we can animate and we have jobs doing it" need
> to come of your high places and try to make art instead of commercials and
> then see if you are considered talented.
I did a lot of fine art, it was fun and easy and a lot of people love my
work, but it doesn't pay many bills and since you are asking here for a
job I would say it didn't pay many of your either. But . . . if you
took you life in some strange manor or cut off your ear collector would
flock to spend money on your absurd works, not that it would do you a
lot of good at that point.
It is my opinion, and probably most of those here in this newgroup that
3D animation for commercials is a high form of art. There are also a
whole lot of folks out there that are willing to pay for our art on a
regular basis. I say a print of the polar bears from Rythm and Hues Coke
commercial in a gallery the other day. The owner said it has been a big
seller.
I suggest you get off your high horse and wake up and smell the roses.
Computer animation is the oil painting of the 90's and instead of kings
and nobles commisioning us for portraits and murals we are commisioned
by large corporations to make visual magic.
Andrew McClary
Graphic Alchemy Interactive, Inc.
Alan Boucek
In article <318BFB...@shadow.net>, Andrew McClary <alc...@shadow.net>
wrote:
> shanahan joseph wrote:
> >
> > And I need a job, I am a fine art painter with works in some gallery
> > shows and many a sold painting . That is a job that takes only talent and
> > more talent. All of "you we can animate and we have jobs doing it" need
> > to come of your high places and try to make art instead of commercials and
> > then see if you are considered talented.
>
> I did a lot of fine art, it was fun and easy and a lot of people love my
> work, but it doesn't pay many bills and since you are asking here for a
> job I would say it didn't pay many of your either. But . . . if you
> took you life in some strange manor or cut off your ear collector would
> flock to spend money on your absurd works, not that it would do you a
> lot of good at that point.
>
> It is my opinion, and probably most of those here in this newgroup that
> 3D animation for commercials is a high form of art. There are also a
> whole lot of folks out there that are willing to pay for our art on a
> regular basis. I say a print of the polar bears from Rythm and Hues Coke
> commercial in a gallery the other day. The owner said it has been a big
> seller.
Most of the people who actually do high end stuff know the difference
between art and commerce.
> I suggest you get off your high horse and wake up and smell the roses.
> Computer animation is the oil painting of the 90's and instead of kings
> and nobles commisioning us for portraits and murals we are commisioned
> by large corporations to make visual magic.
The oil painting of the 90's - sure- like paintings of Elvis on black
velvet. Like that guy with funny curly grey hair on public TV.
Little has yet been done to define computer animation as an fine art form.
There have been a few milestones in cinema, but it's still very much the
beginning.
--
Alan Boucek abo...@panix.com
New York, New York
Noam Ben-Ami
>> It is my opinion, and probably most of those here in this newgroup that
>> 3D animation for commercials is a high form of art. There are also a
>> whole lot of folks out there that are willing to pay for our art on a
>> regular basis. I say a print of the polar bears from Rythm and Hues Coke
>> commercial in a gallery the other day. The owner said it has been a big
>> seller.
>Most of the people who actually do high end stuff know the difference
>between art and commerce.
>
Bullshit. There is no difference between content based just on context,
and anyone who actually loves art has learned this. Heck, based on that
claim, we can pretty much eliminate most of the rennaissance masterpieces,
much of Mozart's work, and even ::gasp!:: much of the music made by Dire
Straights and They Might Be Giants! :)
> I suggest you get off your high horse and wake up and smell the roses.
>> I suggest you get off your high horse and wake up and smell the roses.
>> Computer animation is the oil painting of the 90's and instead of kings
>> and nobles commisioning us for portraits and murals we are commisioned
>> by large corporations to make visual magic.
>The oil painting of the 90's - sure- like paintings of Elvis on black
>velvet. Like that guy with funny curly grey hair on public TV.
There is little argument that computer animation is an art. The oil
painting of the nineties? Well, no. But its definitely an art. This
is, of course, in no way saying that all computer graphics is an art.
I have personally done some way cool looking computer graphics that
no one in their right mind would consider art.
>Little has yet been done to define computer animation as an fine art form.
>There have been a few milestones in cinema, but it's still very much the
>beginning.
>
Look at the siggraph theatre every year. Look at the various experimentational
animations and stills. Computer art is one of the most energetic, creative,
interesting, and beautiful mediums today. Its been abused, popularized and
merchandized, but that really does not differentiate it from any other art...
--
Noam Ben-Ami is nbe...@ux4.cso.uiuc Solar Acoustics High Performance Speakers.
http://farside.ncsa.uiuc.edu/~nbenami ---- Disclaimer: I speak for myself ONLY.
Dealer employee:Dunlavy, B.A.T., Theta, Rowland, Von Schweikert, Hales, Paragon,
Golden Tube, Musical Design, Counterpoint, Linn, Fanfare, C.A.L, Nak, XLO, PS Audio...
Grifter65
Alan,
even the small things that you sugest ( and are corrrect ) gives me the
most anxiety. not to the point of despair; but to the point of somtimes
feeling impeded from doing anything to change that (from where I sit
currently).
Make a Difference.
Duff Hendrickson
On Sat, 4 May 1996, Andrew McClary wrote:
> shanahan joseph wrote:
> >
> > And I need a job, I am a fine art painter with works in some gallery
> > shows and many a sold painting . That is a job that takes only talent and
> > more talent. All of "you we can animate and we have jobs doing it" need
> > to come of your high places and try to make art instead of commercials and
> > then see if you are considered talented.
>
> I did a lot of fine art, it was fun and easy and a lot of people love my
> work, but it doesn't pay many bills and since you are asking here for a
> job I would say it didn't pay many of your either. But . . . if you
> took you life in some strange manor or cut off your ear collector would
> flock to spend money on your absurd works, not that it would do you a
> lot of good at that point.
>
> It is my opinion, and probably most of those here in this newgroup that
> 3D animation for commercials is a high form of art. There are also a
> whole lot of folks out there that are willing to pay for our art on a
> regular basis. I say a print of the polar bears from Rythm and HuesCoke
> commercial in a gallery the other day. The owner said it has been a big
> seller.
>
> I suggest you get off your high horse and wake up and smell the roses.
> Computer animation is the oil painting of the 90's and instead of kings
> and nobles commisioning us for portraits and murals we are commisioned
> by large corporations to make visual magic.
>
> Andrew McClary
> Graphic Alchemy Interactive, Inc.
Some people will never understand that there are two kinds of art.
High art and low are meaningless terms. At one time it was fine art and
commercial art. Then in the 80's graphics art and fine art.
There was classical and modern art. Always the dicotomy. Good and evil,
profitable or unprofitable.
In America our culture is about money and consumerism.
Forget about Van Gogh and Warhol and the others. The future of art is not
the present or the past.
To do pure artists ART one must not have to think about money and
business.
To do commercial art is to please a client, supervisor, consumer.
Either you can be one of the people in the industry, or a solo artist.
Either way you'll have to pay a price, sell your soul, your creativity,
get in line or get out of line and compromise yourself to poverty or some
other condition.
In the end it's a personal decision. There is no true path, no correct
path, no guarentee of success. (Whatever success is?)
I admire the mavericks that take chances and show us all something new or
a new light on what we should see. I don't admire the success hungry
wanna work for SKG/Disney techno-graphic yuppies.
Some people that are not imaginative or creative get the best tools
and some of the most resourceful starve to get the insufficient crude
tools.
Animation in America is not yet ART, but it will be.
You know your own talent. We don't know. You know your potential . We
don't.
Trust your hunches. Then go for it!
Steph Greenberg
Noam Ben-Ami <nbe...@uiuc.edu> wrote:
: >Little has yet been done to define computer animation as an fine art form.
: >There have been a few milestones in cinema, but it's still very much the
: >beginning.
: >
: Look at the siggraph theatre every year. Look at the various experimentational
: animations and stills. Computer art is one of the most energetic, creative,
: interesting, and beautiful mediums today. Its been abused, popularized and
: merchandized, but that really does not differentiate it from any other art...
There's another problem, which is that few so far have learned computer
as an artform completely without influence from other art forms. Most
people in senior creative positions have experience in other art forms,
which in a way impurifies their experience as computer artists.
It will take awhile before the most influential people in computer art
and animation have gained all of their skills solely in the computer medium.
This poor, tortured artist stereotype is a pretense, in large part
promoted by poor, tortured artists who resorted to teaching in college as
their sole means of support. I had teachers who were seriously anti
commercial in college, and when I saw their work I was amazed at how
talentless and unrefined their skill was.
You don't have to defend computer art as an art form. Of course it's an
art form. It conveys a message, new things are being done all the time,
and the hardest new things that require lots of people are being done at
big companies. Just like Michaelangelo, Mozart, et al, worked for the
biggest company of their time.
: --
: Noam Ben-Ami is nbe...@ux4.cso.uiuc Solar Acoustics High Performance Speakers.
: http://farside.ncsa.uiuc.edu/~nbenami ---- Disclaimer: I speak for myself ONLY.
: Dealer employee:Dunlavy, B.A.T., Theta, Rowland, Von Schweikert, Hales, Paragon,
: Golden Tube, Musical Design, Counterpoint, Linn, Fanfare, C.A.L, Nak, XLO, PS Audio...
--
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Steph Greenberg, 3DCGIMD CGI Character Orthopedic Surgeon,
st...@primenet.com Chiropracter, and Podiatrist.
Copyright 1996. All Rights Reserved. Permission granted for non-commercial
electronic republication only, such as Usenet and Email, and
non-commercial educational purposes such as charge free WWW pages.
Express permission is required for any other use. When in doubt, ask.
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