320 x 200 in 16 bit or 24 bit colours???
Mattijs van Delden
Maybe I'm out of line in this newsgroup, but is it possible to have a 320 x 200
mode in either 32K, 64K or 16M colours? We want to use this mode with our
i-Glasses! We have a Diamond 2001, Stealth 3D and Stealth 64.
Thanks,
Mattijs
+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*++*+*+*+*+*+*+*
Mattijs van Delden |
Kombuis 28 | Virtual Environments, Systems, and Consultancy
9732 GB Groningen | specialists in
The Netherlands | - Virtual Environments
| - Internet WWW pages
ve...@noord.bart.nl | - Rendered stills & movies
|
+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+**+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*
Hand of Fate
There is an article by Trixter about that. Try:
ftp.cdrom.com /pub/demos/code,/pub/demos/hornet (DemoNews) or some
place over there.
Basically what is done is smart modifying the pallette, and then
creating two picture pages, and flipping them quite fast, till the
brain blends'em together to one picture.
(Needs a FAST computer to do this in animation.. :) )
Hope that helps, Amit.
In article <31C587...@noord.bart.nl>, ve...@noord.bart.nl says...
--
,,,
(o o)
--ooO-(_)-Ooo-
Deano Calver
Mattijs van Delden <ve...@noord.bart.nl> wrote:
>Maybe I'm out of line in this newsgroup, but is it possible to have a 320 x 200
>mode in either 32K, 64K or 16M colours? We want to use this mode with our
>i-Glasses! We have a Diamond 2001, Stealth 3D and Stealth 64.
> Thanks,
> Mattijs
The UniVBE VESA driver has support for lo res hi colour modes on some
video cards but doesn't work on all, I think they reckon about 5%
won't have it but I tried the lo res modes on a couple of cirrus cards
and they worked good.
The lastest version called Display Doctor is available on their WWW
site www.scitechsoft.com I think, they also have a developers package
to download to work out how to do it.
I had a nice 16M colour plasma in 320x200 mode working useing this.
Another method that MAY work is to set up a 640x400 hi colour mode and
then set the VGA CRTC registers. I managed to do this with a normal
256 colour mode, given me a 320x200x256 colours but it didn't work on
my cirrus cards in hi colour modes, it also had some page flipping
problems but it may work on your Diamonds Anybody tried?.
Hope this helps, If you want any more details just mail me.
Deano
>
>+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*++*+*+*+*+*+*+*
Charlie Wallace
In article <31C587...@noord.bart.nl>, Mattijs van Delden <ve...@noord.bart.nl> wrote:
>Maybe I'm out of line in this newsgroup, but is it possible to have a 320 x 200
>mode in either 32K, 64K or 16M colours? We want to use this mode with our
>i-Glasses! We have a Diamond 2001, Stealth 3D and Stealth 64.
Its is possible to get these modes but only on some cards, but wait for it,
only on some revisions of some of these cards. Ie some diamond stealths
can some can`t, some ati mach 64`s can others can`t, its the DAC thats used
AFAIR the IBM dac can`t, the TI DAC can, most S3 stuff can`t. One card
that seems to be fairly consistent is Number 9, i can`t remeber exactly which
model though i`d need to check. Also some DS 64`s don`t work in these modes
at high bus/clock freqs..
ATI`s mach 64 claimed it can in the manual, but like i said some of them don`t
so ATI now add an errata. I`d love to hear from anyone else with any more info
on this, is this is a mode i`d very much like.
oh and SDD (univbe) doesn`t add the modes to the cards I`ve mentioned above,
( at least the ones that don`t support it ) 8-)
I did ask a few manufacturers about this, some claimed they do it already,
some agreed with what i`ve said, but also said there`s no way to tell when
buying it without loooking at the chipset or trying it in the shop/oem
whatever..
charlie
Geoff Howland
Mattijs van Delden <ve...@noord.bart.nl> wrote:
>Maybe I'm out of line in this newsgroup, but is it possible to have a 320 x 200
>mode in either 32K, 64K or 16M colours? We want to use this mode with our
>i-Glasses! We have a Diamond 2001, Stealth 3D and Stealth 64.
> Thanks,
> Mattijs
>
Doesnt it seem a little silly to hit 24 bit in 320x200, you only have
64000 pixels. Unless of course you want like the whole screen shades
of blue.
geoff
jare...@sip.es
In article <4qp631$n...@gaudi.lahabra.chevron.com>, <bli...@value.net> writes:
> Doesnt it seem a little silly to hit 24 bit in 320x200, you only have
> 64000 pixels. Unless of course you want like the whole screen shades
> of blue.
Maybe you want any pixel in the screen to have any possible RGB value at
any time.
Do you always think like that? Do you like to discuss what resolution
is needed to display 16 million colors simultaneously? I thinik we
already had enough of that.
Ian Griffiths
Geoff Howland wrote:
>
> Mattijs van Delden <ve...@noord.bart.nl> wrote:
>
> >Maybe I'm out of line in this newsgroup, but is it possible
> > to have a 320 x 200 mode in either 32K, 64K or 16M colours?
> > We want to use this mode with our i-Glasses! We have a
> > Diamond 2001, Stealth 3D and Stealth 64.
>
> only have 64000 pixels. Unless of course you want like the
> whole screen shades of blue.
Alright, look at it this way: It's a 64000 colour mode, with
palette lookup into 24 bit. Your screen memory is your palette.
--
Ian Griffiths
Mike Dailly
>>Maybe I'm out of line in this newsgroup, but is it possible to have a 320 x 200
>>mode in either 32K, 64K or 16M colours? We want to use this mode with our
>>i-Glasses! We have a Diamond 2001, Stealth 3D and Stealth 64.
>Doesnt it seem a little silly to hit 24 bit in 320x200, you only have
>64000 pixels. Unless of course you want like the whole screen shades
>of blue.
Actually, this would be a brill step between hires and lowres. 24 bit
would allow nice edge smoothing, blending, bluring, and so on. It
would give 3D games a real nice look. As its slightly faster than
hires, it would act as a nice stepping stone (same with 65536 colours
too!)
Mike
--
Mike Dailly mi...@scotch.demon.co.uk
Scotch Mist BBS mda...@cix.compulink.co.uk
+44 1382 644820 fido (2:259/71)
Paul Shirley
In article <4qp631$n...@gaudi.lahabra.chevron.com>, Geoff Howland
<bli...@value.net> writes
>>mode in either 32K, 64K or 16M colours? We want to use this mode with our
>>i-Glasses! We have a Diamond 2001, Stealth 3D and Stealth 64.
>
>
>Doesnt it seem a little silly to hit 24 bit in 320x200, you only have
>64000 pixels. Unless of course you want like the whole screen shades
>of blue.
>
Its actually a very appealing idea, I'm getting heartily sick of seeing
games running in 256 colours. 640x480x32K runs just a little too slow
for any realtime graphics apps (games or otherwise)
My office machine supports 320x200x64K mode but none of the other
machines seem to...
--
Paul Shirley
Robert Schmidt
jare...@sip.es wrote:
> Maybe you want any pixel in the screen to have any possible RGB value at
> any time.
I think this is the cue, too. Palettes are on their way out. I begin
to sweat when I think of the neat effects that can be implemented in a
truecolor framebuffer, in realtime, given a low resolution like 320x200
or 320x240.
--
Robert Schmidt <r...@vingmed.no>
Software Developer / Vingmed Sound tel +47 67124237 fax +47 67124355
Private tel +47 22352293 WWW http://www.idt.ntnu.no/~robert
It is easier to get forgiveness than permission.
jare...@sip.es
In article <31D0E9...@vingmed.no>, <r...@vingmed.no> writes:
> to sweat when I think of the neat effects that can be implemented in a
> truecolor framebuffer, in realtime, given a low resolution like 320x200
> or 320x240.
I sweat when I actually see what I have already implemented... :)
Definitely the way to go.
Mattijs van Delden
>
> Mattijs van Delden <ve...@noord.bart.nl> wrote:
>
> >Maybe I'm out of line in this newsgroup, but is it possible to have a 320 x 200
> >mode in either 32K, 64K or 16M colours? We want to use this mode with our
> >i-Glasses! We have a Diamond 2001, Stealth 3D and Stealth 64.
>
>
> > Mattijs
>
> >
>
> Doesnt it seem a little silly to hit 24 bit in 320x200, you only have
> 64000 pixels. Unless of course you want like the whole screen shades
> of blue.
>
It might be a little silly, but I have a single 4000 x 2000 image, of which
a small portion is visible at any time, and I dont want to change the
palette as soon as a new part of the picture is visible. When a picture
is as large as 4000 x 2000, I think 24-bit colour is needed for smooth
light-dark transitions. In theory, 8M colours can be used in this picture.
Mattijs
--
Geoff Howland
>Maybe I'm out of line in this newsgroup, but is it possible to have a 320 x 200
>mode in either 32K, 64K or 16M colours? We want to use this mode with our
>i-Glasses! We have a Diamond 2001, Stealth 3D and Stealth 64.
> Thanks,
> Mattijs
>
>+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*++*+*+*+*+*+*+*
>Mattijs van Delden |
>Kombuis 28 | Virtual Environments, Systems, and Consultancy
To answer your question, since no one else did (they just wanted to
rip on my statement) (and I still think 24-bit color in 320x320 is
unneccessary, 16 is about all you need in this, you would need to be
color randomization to get any better effects). Its totally possibly
to create this mode as long as your video card supports it. There are
a lot of VESA or card tester out there that will tell you what
resolutions your card will support, most system analysis or
benchmarking programs will have this as a function.
geoff
jare...@sip.es
> To answer your question, since no one else did (they just wanted to
> rip on my statement) (and I still think 24-bit color in 320x320 is
> unneccessary, 16 is about all you need in this,
No it is not. You can't do smooth gradients in 5 bits, only 32 different
levels of each component. I have a 3d thing right by my side that shows
it, so I suggest you try it before you disregard our "rips" on your
statement. If you don't want to code, just try the DirectX 2 SDK then.
Now if you tell me that any gradient will look equally good at 16 or 24bpp,
there's no need to discuss further.
Dithering can improve 16 bpp modes but there's nothing like the real thing.
David R. Green (LCS)
> To answer your question, since no one else did (they just wanted to
> rip on my statement) (and I still think 24-bit color in 320x320 is
> color randomization to get any better effects). Its totally possibly
> to create this mode as long as your video card supports it. There are
> a lot of VESA or card tester out there that will tell you what
> resolutions your card will support, most system analysis or
> benchmarking programs will have this as a function.
>
> geoff
The easiest answer to this, even if your card doesn't have direct
15/16/24-bit color support under VESA with its included drivers
or BIOS (requires VESA 2.x), get a copy of UniVBE from SciTech. It even
gives me 15/16/24-bit 320x200 and intermediates (ie 320x400, 360xXXX,
etc.) on my old ATI VGA Wonder XL 24, as well as my newer VL cards.
This would allow for great video games with some speed.
David
Mike Dailly
>> To answer your question, since no one else did (they just wanted to
>> rip on my statement) (and I still think 24-bit color in 320x320 is
>> unneccessary, 16 is about all you need in this, you would need to be
>> color randomization to get any better effects). Its totally possibly
>> to create this mode as long as your video card supports it. There are
>> a lot of VESA or card tester out there that will tell you what
>> resolutions your card will support, most system analysis or
>> benchmarking programs will have this as a function.
>The easiest answer to this, even if your card doesn't have direct
>15/16/24-bit color support under VESA with its included drivers
>or BIOS (requires VESA 2.x), get a copy of UniVBE from SciTech. It even
>gives me 15/16/24-bit 320x200 and intermediates (ie 320x400, 360xXXX,
>etc.) on my old ATI VGA Wonder XL 24, as well as my newer VL cards.
>This would allow for great video games with some speed.
This doesn't work on all cards.
System Shadow
"David R. Green (LCS)" <gh...@pris.bc.ca> wrote:
>Geoff Howland wrote:
>> To answer your question, since no one else did (they just wanted to
>> rip on my statement) (and I still think 24-bit color in 320x320 is
>> unneccessary, 16 is about all you need in this, you would need to be
>> color randomization to get any better effects). Its totally possibly
>> to create this mode as long as your video card supports it. There are
>> a lot of VESA or card tester out there that will tell you what
>> resolutions your card will support, most system analysis or
>> benchmarking programs will have this as a function.
>>
>> geoff
>The easiest answer to this, even if your card doesn't have direct
>15/16/24-bit color support under VESA with its included drivers
>or BIOS (requires VESA 2.x), get a copy of UniVBE from SciTech. It even
>gives me 15/16/24-bit 320x200 and intermediates (ie 320x400, 360xXXX,
>etc.) on my old ATI VGA Wonder XL 24, as well as my newer VL cards.
>This would allow for great video games with some speed.
>David
You should know that not all cards that support 15/16 and 24 bit modes
support 320x200 in 15/16 or 24 bit mode.....mine doesn't, believe me
i've tried....
Kendall Bennett
Mattijs van Delden <ve...@noord.bart.nl> wrote:
>Maybe I'm out of line in this newsgroup, but is it possible to have a 320 x 200
>mode in either 32K, 64K or 16M colours? We want to use this mode with our
>i-Glasses! We have a Diamond 2001, Stealth 3D and Stealth 64.
Check out our SciTech Display Doctor 5.2 package on www.scitechsoft.com. It
full supports 320x200, 320x240, 400x300 and 512x384 in 15/16/24 and 32 bits
per pixel modes on just about all controllers...
Regards,
+--------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| SciTech Software - Building Truly Plug'n'Play Software! |
+--------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Kendall Bennett, Software Engineer | Email: Kend...@scitechsoft.com |
| SciTech Software USA | Fax : (916) 894 9069 |
| 5 Governors Lane, Suite D | ftp : ftp.scitechsoft.com |
| Chico, CA 95926, USA | www : http://www.scitechsoft.com |
+--------------------------------------------------------------------------+
Pål-Kristian Engstad
Robert Schmidt wrote:
>
> jare...@sip.es wrote:
> > Maybe you want any pixel in the screen to have any possible RGB value at
> > any time.
>
> I think this is the cue, too. Palettes are on their way out. I begin
> truecolor framebuffer, in realtime, given a low resolution like 320x200
> or 320x240.
Do try it out. Sony PlayStation (tm) games usually use a 16 bit 320-240
or 384-240 screen.
PKE.
--
----------------------------------------------------------------------
| Pål-Kristian Engstad | eng...@funcom.com | Games programmer, PSX |
| Funcom Oslo AS | Ph +47 22 42 01 02 | developer & Linux Fan |
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Kendall Bennett
mi...@scotch.demon.co.uk (Mike Dailly) wrote:
>>The easiest answer to this, even if your card doesn't have direct
>>15/16/24-bit color support under VESA with its included drivers
>>or BIOS (requires VESA 2.x), get a copy of UniVBE from SciTech. It even
>>gives me 15/16/24-bit 320x200 and intermediates (ie 320x400, 360xXXX,
>>etc.) on my old ATI VGA Wonder XL 24, as well as my newer VL cards.
>>This would allow for great video games with some speed.
>This doesn't work on all cards.
Have you tried the latest 5.2 release of our product Mike? You will find
that it works a *lot* better in this release, and does support just about
every controller that is capable of handling these modes.
Please make sure you have the latest info about a product before you post
information such as the above. Check:
www.scitechsoft.com: /sdd52.exe
ne...@ludens.elte.hu
In article <4qc1h1$9...@hell.team17.com>, cha...@team17.com (Charlie Wallace) writes:
> In article <31C587...@noord.bart.nl>, Mattijs van Delden <ve...@noord.bart.nl> wrote:
>>Maybe I'm out of line in this newsgroup, but is it possible to have a 320 x 200
>>mode in either 32K, 64K or 16M colours? We want to use this mode with our
>>i-Glasses! We have a Diamond 2001, Stealth 3D and Stealth 64.
>
> only on some revisions of some of these cards. Ie some diamond stealths
> can some can`t, some ati mach 64`s can others can`t, its the DAC thats used
> AFAIR the IBM dac can`t, the TI DAC can, most S3 stuff can`t. One card
> that seems to be fairly consistent is Number 9, i can`t remeber exactly which
> model though i`d need to check. Also some DS 64`s don`t work in these modes
> at high bus/clock freqs..
>
> ATI`s mach 64 claimed it can in the manual, but like i said some of them don`t
> so ATI now add an errata. I`d love to hear from anyone else with any more info
> on this, is this is a mode i`d very much like.
>
> oh and SDD (univbe) doesn`t add the modes to the cards I`ve mentioned above,
> ( at least the ones that don`t support it ) 8-)
>
> I did ask a few manufacturers about this, some claimed they do it already,
> some agreed with what i`ve said, but also said there`s no way to tell when
> buying it without loooking at the chipset or trying it in the shop/oem
> whatever..
>
>
> charlie
Even if your card does support these modes, probably your software doesn't!
I have a S3 Trio64V+ which *does* support mode like 0x10d, but it's only
vesa 1.2 compatible. And even if univbe/sdd says it supports the V+ chip,
it does not allow to put the card into the 0x410d mode... I had to use
the s3vbe20 proggy, which has other bugs... however, if you are through
these things, I think it worths the efforts... mode 0x410d is fast,
and its simply great...
Medve (me...@omk.omikk.hu)
jare...@sip.es
In article <1996Jul3.165100.30522@ludens>, <ne...@ludens.elte.hu> writes:
> I have a S3 Trio64V+ which *does* support mode like 0x10d, but it's only
> vesa 1.2 compatible. And even if univbe/sdd says it supports the V+ chip,
> it does not allow to put the card into the 0x410d mode...
Low-rez modes don't have anything to do with VESA version. And it's strange
your problem, I have an STB PowerGraph 64V (Trio64V+) and the low-res
modes are supported by the BIOS directly (and even Win95 drivers too!! :)).
Certainly UniVESA 5.2 works with them too.
Charlie Wallace
>Low-rez modes don't have anything to do with VESA version. And it's strange
>your problem, I have an STB PowerGraph 64V (Trio64V+) and the low-res
>modes are supported by the BIOS directly (and even Win95 drivers too!! :)).
>Certainly UniVESA 5.2 works with them too.
>
there are lots of different version of each card, each supporting different
thing with different DAC`s and so on, so even if you have the same card
its not guaranteed that they`ll both do the same thing...
which is madness, but progress and so on. ( except when they actually
get worse, which happens and its generally cost based )
charlie
Mike Dailly
>>>The easiest answer to this, even if your card doesn't have direct
>>>15/16/24-bit color support under VESA with its included drivers
>>>or BIOS (requires VESA 2.x), get a copy of UniVBE from SciTech. It even
>>>gives me 15/16/24-bit 320x200 and intermediates (ie 320x400, 360xXXX,
>>>etc.) on my old ATI VGA Wonder XL 24, as well as my newer VL cards.
>>>This would allow for great video games with some speed.
>
>>This doesn't work on all cards.
>
>Have you tried the latest 5.2 release of our product Mike? You will find
>that it works a *lot* better in this release, and does support just about
>every controller that is capable of handling these modes.
Sorry, what I ment was not all cards support this. In fact these days
hardly ANY support it.
>Please make sure you have the latest info about a product before you post
>information such as the above. Check:
> www.scitechsoft.com: /sdd52.exe
:-)
Cheers
Mario Koeppen
In article <4regse$d...@goya.eunet.es>, jare...@sip.es writes:
>
>In article <1996Jul3.165100.30522@ludens>, <ne...@ludens.elte.hu> writes:
>
>> I have a S3 Trio64V+ which *does* support mode like 0x10d, but it's only
>> vesa 1.2 compatible. And even if univbe/sdd says it supports the V+ chip,
>> it does not allow to put the card into the 0x410d mode...
>
Have you enabled linear framebuffer support with uvconfig?
I've just hacked together some DOS based MPEG player which uses the linear
framebuffer. My card is a SPEA Mirage P64 (S3 864 & ATT ??498).
It really should work with Trio cards.
On cards like these, which do not support linear framebuffers is h/w
the vbe emulates it with paging (like virtual memory).
>Low-rez modes don't have anything to do with VESA version. And it's strange
>your problem, I have an STB PowerGraph 64V (Trio64V+) and the low-res
>modes are supported by the BIOS directly (and even Win95 drivers too!! :)).
>Certainly UniVESA 5.2 works with them too.
>
>
He was speaking of Hicolor and Truecolor modes, which HAVE much to with
VESA vbe version. Lores Hi/Truecolor modes are not supported by VESA versions
below 2.0.
--
Mario Koeppen
m...@irz.inf.tu-dresden.de http://www.inf.tu-dresden.de/~mk2
jare...@sip.es
In article <4rq4tl$p...@irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de>, <m...@irz.inf.tu-dresden.de>
writes:
> >Low-rez modes don't have anything to do with VESA version.
>
> He was speaking of Hicolor and Truecolor modes, which HAVE much to with
> VESA vbe version. Lores Hi/Truecolor modes are not supported by VESA versions
> below 2.0.
Yes they are. That's exactly what I was telling you: my Trio64V+ BIOS gives
VESA 1.2, but it supports low-rez hicolor/truecolor modes. It's simple. It
works.
What do you find in VESA 1.2 specs that supposedly forbids these modes?
Of course they don't have standard mode numbers (a practice which VBE 2.0
disallows), but otherwise it fits perfectly in VBE 1.2 to have these modes.
Please explain why you think so. a) I can find no reason to back your
statement. b) I have a card that works contrary to your idea.
newh...@escmail.orl.mmc.com
In article <4rr9b0$p...@goya.eunet.es>
jare...@sip.es wrote:
>> He was speaking of Hicolor and Truecolor modes, which HAVE much
>> to with VESA vbe version. Lores Hi/Truecolor modes are not
>> supported by VESA versions below 2.0.
BZZZZT--try again. VESA 1.2 introduced the capability for highcolor and
truecolor modes. Version 2.0 introduced the linear frame buffer.
>> Of course they don't have standard mode numbers (a practice which
>> VBE 2.0 disallows), but otherwise it fits perfectly in VBE 1.2 to have
>> these modes.
Actually, when I read my copy of the 1.2 spec there is most definitely
a list of standard mode numbers, however, it is up to the manufacturer
whether or not they want to support them. VESA 1.2 provides a simple
mechanism for enquring about the capabilities and supported modes
of a graphics card, so a manufacturer can freely ignore the standard
modes if they want to.
What is interesting to me is the new VESA Accelerated Functions
spec, which provides a uniform interface to things like hardware
BitBlt, accelerated line drawing, et cet... Anybody do anything with
that yet besides the people at Scitech?
William Newhall
jare...@sip.es
In article <4s2rl4$f...@theopolis.orl.mmc.com>, <newh...@escmail.orl.mmc.com>
writes:
> >> He was speaking of Hicolor and Truecolor modes, which HAVE much
> >> to with VESA vbe version. Lores Hi/Truecolor modes are not
> >> supported by VESA versions below 2.0.
>
> BZZZZT--try again. VESA 1.2 introduced the capability for highcolor and
> truecolor modes. Version 2.0 introduced the linear frame buffer.
Err.... I don't mean to be rough, but where on earth does the use of low-
resolution modes imply the need for LFB?
Where have we mentioned LFB? Read the subject of the message, and my previous
posts, including that paragraph above.
"Lores Hi/Truecolor modes are not supported by VESA versions below 2.0."
Where have I spoken about LFBs? I'm lost reading your answer.
> of a graphics card, so a manufacturer can freely ignore the standard
> modes if they want to.
Right. In VESA 2.0 (at least the preview version from Scitech) the mere
existance of standard mode numbers is discouraged.