Which software companies went bankrupt due to piracy?
Richard Hutnik
of pirated software is assumed that it would of been bought if not
pirated). I am sure that the industry has lost money.
But, my question is, does anyone know of any software companies,
particularly game companies, that went bankrupt because of piracy? I
think the Atari 8bit computer had a major piracy problem (Adventure
International being one company that suffered), but does know of any
others more recent that piracy bankrupted?
Thanks...
- Richard Hutnik
Kasey Chang (use EXCITE.COM instead!)
"Richard Hutnik" <richar...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:37bc9e37.01072...@posting.google.com...
Business go out of business primarily for lack of money in the bank.
Piracy contributes to that, as it decreases incoming revenue, but it is
NEVER the SOLE reason of a company going out of business.
So to answer your question, no company went out of business SOLELY
due to piracy. Indeed, I doubt a study was ever done that can even tell
you how much of a factor piracy was in the companies that have gone
under. However, it is suspected to be a significant factor.
--KC
Nathan Mates
Richard Hutnik <richar...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>But, my question is, does anyone know of any software companies,
>particularly game companies, that went bankrupt because of piracy? I
>think the Atari 8bit computer had a major piracy problem (Adventure
>International being one company that suffered), but does know of any
>others more recent that piracy bankrupted?
Company bankrupted? They're usually smart enough to take steps to
avoid that whenever possible. However, I do think that the steps can
be almost as bad as an outright bankruption-- games with low sales
projections (which would be some % higher in absence of piracy-- I'm
not going to debate what that % is here) may be canceled. Budgets for
games can also be smaller due to lack of past and projected future
revenue, which can hurt games by forcing fewer staff to do more work,
cut features from games due to lack of time/$, less time in QA, etc.
Nathan Mates
--
<*> Nathan Mates - personal webpage http://www.visi.com/~nathan/
# Programmer at Pandemic Studios -- http://www.pandemicstudios.com/
# NOT speaking for Pandemic Studios. "Care not what the neighbors
# think. What are the facts, and to how many decimal places?" -R.A. Heinlein
Jukka Liimatta
> of pirated software is assumed that it would of been bought if not
> pirated). I am sure that the industry has lost money.
And how many of those went bankrupt because of plain simply shitty games.
Anyway, just a few years ago publishers, etc. were saying games cost a
fortune because of piracy, etc.
Now we have platforms like PS2 where games are harder to copy, and yet,
games cost nearly twice of what easily-pirated PC games cost. It seems the
publishers & sony have found out that when the games cannot be pirated, they
must be bought so let's put a ridiculous price!
Then they wonder why games are selling slowly! Must be the piracy...
;-)
Marc Vaughan
very good games which just didn't sell (but could strangely enough be found
very easily on the warez scene).
Bren
to find retail.
--
--------------------------
Bren @ Wagga World dot com
--------------------------
"Marc Vaughan" <mar...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20010725045047...@ng-fo1.aol.com...
Kasey Chang (use EXCITE.COM instead!)
"Bren" <br...@n.o.s.p.a.m.waggaworld.com> wrote in message
news:SdA77.72311$2V.15...@news3.rdc1.on.home.com...
> It may be LG's games proliferated in the warez scene because they were
hard
> to find retail.
Maybe (the operative word here) it's hard to find because the
distributor / publisher
found that certain market segments don't make any money...
--KC
Peter Cowderoy
<500 people queue outside a shop - one walks in>
"I want a mint ice cream"
"sorry sir, we don't have any - no demand, you see"
<the man walks out, another walks in>
"I want a mint ice cream"
"sorry sir..."
<cut to the office of the one company supplying ice cream>
"Mint ice cream available - 0
Mint ice cream sold - 0
Demand for mint ice cream - 0"
'In Ankh-Morpork even the shit have a street to itself...
Truly this is a land of opportunity.' - Detritus, Men at Arms
ZZ
news:37bc9e37.01072...@posting.google.com...
> of pirated software is assumed that it would of been bought if not
> pirated).
a very starnge assumption
--
lets hear it 4 billy bollux and his AMAZING bouuuncing balls
zed zeek - big bollucked king of the world , messiah , and all round nice guy.
GET IT HERE http://members.xoom.com/myBollux FREE BOLLUX
Sir Percival (Michael Spall)
--
Blessed Be
Sir Percival (Michael Spall)
http://go.to/studentweb
"Peter Cowderoy" <psy...@cowderoy.co.uk> wrote in message
news:Pine.LNX.4.33.010726...@eagle.cowderoy.co.uk...
Sir Percival (Michael Spall)
"ZZ" <sexyb...@clear.net.nz> wrote in message
news:3b5fbcc7$1...@clear.net.nz...
> "Richard Hutnik" <richar...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:37bc9e37.01072...@posting.google.com...
> > Piracy is said to cost the industry billions in lost sales (every copy
> > of pirated software is assumed that it would of been bought if not
> > pirated).
>
> a very starnge assumption
>
It is a bit of an interesting assumption. There are games that I ahve
played that are *technically* pirated, i.e. borrowing a freinds game to try
it and so on, and without playing them I would ahve been very unlikely to
buy it.
I actually believe that piracy helps the industry in general, OK, it
probably harms individual companies, but for example whent he Amiga and
Atari ST went head to head, the Amiga got a greater share of the market
simply because people knew that you could buy games for 'quid a disk' at
your local boot market.
Many of those people who purchased Amiga's becuase of the easy access to
pirate games, also purchased full games (I was about 10, so I only got 2
quid a week pocket money, so a 9.99 game was 5 weeks of saving for me :-( )
In general I think piracy helps to spread the hardware base a lot more, and
when people own the hardware they buy the games.
Most users would rather buy the full game than the pirated version as you
get manuals, support and stuff.
Incidently the industry has always said that piracy was the cause of high
game costs, why ahve nintendo games always been very expensive, they ahve
always been un-piratable.
The PS2 is supposed to be un-piratable as well, and the gmaes for them are
45 quid a shot.
go figure!
> --
> lets hear it 4 billy bollux and his AMAZING bouuuncing balls
> zed zeek - big bollucked king of the world , messiah , and all round nice
guy.
> GET IT HERE http://members.xoom.com/myBollux FREE BOLLUX
Taren
between LGS and Ion Storm (back in the days of John Romero and Daikatana,
before Warren Spector took over with Deus Ex). They felt Romero and Ion
Storm were a better investment, so they booted LGS and kept on with Ion
Storm.
"Marc Vaughan" <mar...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20010725045047...@ng-fo1.aol.com...
: I would say that piracy dfefinitely helped 'Looking Glass' under they made
Taren
is pretty much the same as piracy, because the developers/producers don't
get any money from the sales, in fact they lost potential profit just like
with piracy. What do you think?
"Richard Hutnik" <richar...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:37bc9e37.01072...@posting.google.com...
: Piracy is said to cost the industry billions in lost sales (every copy
Richard Hutnik
Now we know WHY they say it costs the industry billions, the computer
companies are forced to keep prices down BECAUSE of piracy. Ahh...
the facts come to light :-).
Actually, licensing fees Sony, Nintendo, etc... charge play part of a
role in how expensive games are. I think Sony did manage to reduce
the cost of licensing fees for games on the PSX, which means you now
get $9.95 PSX games NEW. Sega likewise reduced the fees, so you can
get NEWLY RELEASED games for around $20.
This whole cost of games, etc... boils down to one thing, not piracy,
not anything else: How much can a company charge for its product to
maximize its profits? That is all. Piracy or no, this is the
question every company asks.
By the way, on another note, I am hearing these BSA (Business Software
Alliance) ads on a NYC radio station. Those ads really get my chaffe.
I am against piracy, but they have these damn "big brother" feel to
them. The BSA (whomever they are) has declared a truce, where you
have time to "get legal" before they come rolling into town. They
will then slap fines on your company for having pirated software.
Once they come into town, if they get a call from a disgruntaled
employee (or former employee), they will send their storm troopers in
and secure company assets I guess.
- Richard Hutnik
Jukka Liimatta
this
> is pretty much the same as piracy, because the developers/producers don't
> get any money from the sales, in fact they lost potential profit just like
> with piracy. What do you think?
I think that Ford Motor Company loses money from 2nd hand sales aswell. ;-)
Seriously, there are software licenses, if you read them carefully which say
resale is not allowed ( on some software ). My point? No point... just love
my... uh.. voice? font? ;-)
J
Sir Percival (Michael Spall)
news:9jpcbl$bjg$1...@news.kolumbus.fi...
I would love to see the game that you agreed to a license for, I've not seen
a license on a game yet, (although as I just always click next, I might have
missed one).
Incidentally if you don't read the license, just click next, how legally
binding is the software license?
i.e. if by agreeing tot the software license you are agreeing that you don't
own the game but are in fact only renting the game from the publishers and
if they request it you must send it back.
If they actually tried to recall all he games in this sense, would you be
liable for prosecution?
Would you have a legal recourse to, 'the license was too complicated, I
didn't understand it' as a defence?
Joel Wellington
>probably harms individual companies, but for example whent he Amiga and
>Atari ST went head to head, the Amiga got a greater share of the market
>simply because people knew that you could buy games for 'quid a disk' at
>your local boot market.
for the Atari ST through the 80's and early 90's
Dbug
Automation
Pompey Pirates
Medway Bows
Flame of Finland
Superior
Supergau
Amiga got a greater share of the market because Ataris advertising was
crap and atari didnt have a massively popular 'lead in' personal
computer like the commodore 64. Amiga generally got software
conversions done first so there was probably cracked disks out first,
but I dont think it generated sales for the system.
Playstation and Nintendo64 are different though :)
Joel
Marc Vaughan
between LGS and Ion Storm "
of previous games by the teams involved, unfortunately LGS games never 'sold'
as many as they deserved to.
Taren
"Marc Vaughan" <mar...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20010727042510...@ng-fo1.aol.com...
: "LGS "went under" because Eidos was having financial problems, and to
Taren
: my... uh.. voice? font? ;-)
:
:
: J
:
Heyahahar, very good...
David J Bailey
between LGS and Ion Storm "
what an excellent decision that was
mwa ha ha ha ha
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Marc Vaughan" <mar...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20010727042510...@ng-fo1.aol.com...
David J Bailey
or two fewer parties in Cannes.
Then I realise that, once again, the crap falls on the poor developer, who
loses royalties and eventually can't afford to reinvest in that one good
idea that would change the world.
piracy *always* stinks
don't do it, kids.
------------------------------------------------------
"Sir Percival (Michael Spall)" <sir...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:9jpdm0$10v24$1...@ID-97653.news.dfncis.de...
Jukka Liimatta
>
> don't do it, kids.
Agree 100%, but on the other tip.. this year I bought 3 games. Which are...
- Operation Flashpoint
I'd rate this as one heck of awesome game!
- Max Payne
Great fun, a bit demanding on the hardware side... a bit short.. but fun!
- Gran Turismo 3
... where I seen this before? Oh yes... Gran Turismo four years ago...
well, this time the fps is never below 50 ( PAL television ) and the cars
have more triangles. ;-)
By end of the year I expect Metal Gear Solid 2, and Tony Hawk Pro Skater 2
to be in my possession through legal channels. Rest of the offerings just
don't have "it", which would make me reach for my wallet. On the PC side
Master of Orion III and CIV3 are what I'm really looking forward to.
As long as publishers are making market surveys, and decide.. ahaa... we
need another game of this genre... with this hook, and THAT
unique-selling-point(tm), I don't care much about investing in that sort of
"entertainment" (read: rubbish).
I don't know who publishers think will be interested in their carbon-copy
games targeted for some target audience in some suit meeting. If that's the
best they can do, they deserve to go bankrupt.
Jukka
Marc Vaughan
assessed them with regard to the sales of previous games by their senior
employee's (ie. Doom et al.) .... as I'm sure you're aware.
Heavy Cat Multimedia Ltd.
<jukka.t...@twilightfx.com> wrote:
>As long as publishers are making market surveys, and decide.. ahaa... we
>need another game of this genre... with this hook, and THAT
>unique-selling-point(tm), I don't care much about investing in that sort of
>"entertainment" (read: rubbish).
Agreed. Clones and sequels don't really need market surveys. They just
take as fact that because this game succeeded, the sequel will too.
>I don't know who publishers think will be interested in their carbon-copy
>games targeted for some target audience in some suit meeting. If that's the
>best they can do, they deserve to go bankrupt.
But they don't go bankrupt. They also will not entertain any new ideas
because there isn't any "market research" supporting the fact that the new
idea will sell: in other words, if it hasn't already sold 100,000 copies,
it doesn't get published. A perfectly engineered and
relentlessly maintained chicken-or-egg paradox which has the
effect of making it 100% impossible to get a "new" game published.
Just another in the long list of reasons we went independent. Whenever I
think about publishers, I always think about their break-even number vs.
ours. It always makes me laugh. :)
Players who really want to see new ideas and new games based on those ideas
should support independent developers. We don't have $11 million budgets,
so there won't be any vertex-shaded-polygon-DirectX-motion-capture-gee-whiz
graphics extravaganzas, but there will be games that address some of the
complaints from players from companies that are genuinely willing to try new
ideas.
Just a thought.
--
As of next Thursday, C will be replaced by Algol-60.
Please update your programs.
Scott
Heavy Cat Multimedia Ltd.
http://www.heavycat.com
http://www.ladystar.net
Taren
a whole is different to assessing the sales of its individuals. And only
some of its seniors had worked on Doom et al., not the whole team.
"Marc Vaughan" <mar...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20010801062205...@ng-ch1.aol.com...
: "Crap on, Ion Storm hadn't even released a game yet."
Sir Percival (Michael Spall)
news:9kbbe4$vtc$1...@bunyip.cc.uq.edu.au...
But no one has ever suggested that Eidos made the right decision, however
that does show you why publishers fail so often. its all about the
immediate return on sales, and they assume that games people and companies
are like a printing press, that someone who worked on a good game will
continue to produce good games, each one making a lot of money.
The stupid thing is that a lot of MD's of large publishers were gamers
themselves, they should know better!
oh well, can you say jaded? I'm far to young to be jaded <sigh>
Nathan Mates
To be fair, they've released 3. Their Dallas office (which has
since had everyone leave the company) released Daikatana and
Anachronox, while their Austin office has released Deus Ex. As Deus Ex
got several "game of the year" awards, I think it's a definitely a
worthy accomplishment. The Austin office is reportedly working on Deus
Ex 2 and Thief 3, according to news sites like
http://www.bluesnews.com .
Andrew R. Gillett
> In article <9k3tf1$neh$1...@bunyip.cc.uq.edu.au>,
> Taren <tare...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >Crap on, Ion Storm hadn't even released a game yet.
>
> To be fair, they've released 3.
He's talking about when Looking Glass went out of business.
--
Andrew Gillett http://argnet.fatal-design.com/ ICQ: See homepage
US videogame release dates at:
http://www.release-dates.com/
eddy
distribute their product. Gem are a bunch of complete dishonest
tossers. They rip off their customers by charging higher prices than
those agreed when ordering and if anyone has experienced their returns
procedure and the length of time they take to issue a credit note for
returns they'll know what a bunch they really are
Eddy
richar...@hotmail.com (Richard Hutnik) wrote in message news:<37bc9e37.01072...@posting.google.com>...
> Piracy is said to cost the industry billions in lost sales (every copy
> of pirated software is assumed that it would of been bought if not