Thoughts on the Worstveld Sling Extra typeface

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JC Dill

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Apr 1, 2009, 12:39:59 PM4/1/09
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I'm currently using the Worstveld Sling Extra typeface in my marketing
materials. I would love feedback on what does or doesn't work with this
choice before I spend $$$ printing business cards and promotional cards.
If there's some reason this is a horrible choice and anyone with
design experience would think I'm a clueless noob, I'd like to find out
sooner rather than later. For context, I'm a photographer, and I want
to use a typeface that has some "artistic" elements while still being
clear and easy to read - especially when used for email addresses and
phone numbers.

You can see examples of how I'm going to use it here:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/jcdill/sets/72157610411059277/

(the designs with multi-images are just preliminary designs, the
single-image designs are much closer to finished)

Also, I'd love to know the history of this typeface name, and the names
of similar typefaces.

Thanks,

jc

Dick Margulis

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Apr 1, 2009, 1:12:00 PM4/1/09
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JC Dill wrote:
> I'm currently using the Worstveld Sling Extra typeface in my marketing
> materials. I would love feedback on what does or doesn't work with this
> choice before I spend $$$ printing business cards and promotional cards.
> If there's some reason this is a horrible choice and anyone with design
> experience would think I'm a clueless noob, I'd like to find out sooner
> rather than later. For context, I'm a photographer, and I want to use a
> typeface that has some "artistic" elements while still being clear and
> easy to read - especially when used for email addresses and phone numbers.

Seems to me you were here some months ago looking at comparisons of a
number of similar fonts, worrying in particular about how your name
rendered in them in terms of legibility and letterspacing. I think
you've found one that works well in that regard. Your samples are all
legible.

This particular handwriting font has--it seems to me--a femininity to
it. Some others might be more gender neutral (and others might be quite
masculine, creating a different sensibility altogether). But I don't
know your goal. You may be trying to convey something of the feminine
about yourself or you may be trying to attract a clientele that has a
feminine sensibility. Given the large gay community in the Bay Area, I
don't think the femininity of the typeface is going to put off a large
segment of your potential market (and it's not extreme, in any case).

It's also not a _serious_ typeface. It's playful, suggesting that you're
a friendly person to do business with and you're not going to get all
arrogant and in-your-face with clients about your professional and
artistic integrity. If they want a picture of their horse wearing a
frilly pink hat, by golly, you're the go-to photographer.

Those are the main connotations I get from your choice. If they are
consistent with who you are and what you're trying to convey, then
you've chosen well. If the person I've just described is not you, then
you may want to reconsider.

But all of this is extremely subjective, and someone else might have an
entirely different take on it.


>
> You can see examples of how I'm going to use it here:
>
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/jcdill/sets/72157610411059277/
>
> (the designs with multi-images are just preliminary designs, the
> single-image designs are much closer to finished)
>
> Also, I'd love to know the history of this typeface name, and the names
> of similar typefaces.

Designers can choose whatever names they wish when they're into
idiosyncratic and informal display faces like that. There's no
historical reason to choose any particular name. With basic text faces,
the name often conveys something of the historical antecedents of the
design by harking back to a classical type designer, country, or
calligraphic style. But that's not what you're dealing with here.

>
> Thanks,
>
> jc
>

You're welcome,

Dick
http://www.dmargulis.com/typography.asp

Character

unread,
Apr 1, 2009, 1:30:30 PM4/1/09
to
JC Dill wrote:

> I'm currently using the Worstveld Sling Extra typeface in my marketing
> materials. I would love feedback on what does or doesn't work with this
> choice before I spend $$$ printing business cards and promotional cards.
> If there's some reason this is a horrible choice and anyone with design
> experience would think I'm a clueless noob, I'd like to find out sooner
> rather than later. For context, I'm a photographer, and I want to use a
> typeface that has some "artistic" elements while still being clear and
> easy to read - especially when used for email addresses and phone numbers.


> You can see examples of how I'm going to use it here:
>
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/jcdill/sets/72157610411059277/
>
> (the designs with multi-images are just preliminary designs, the
> single-image designs are much closer to finished)

It's a matter of style. Overall, your work has a very nice "feel" to
it. I particularly like the impression of informality combined with
professionalism that I get.

I find that the small lettering and tight letterspacing looks jumbled
together, particularly in things like your email address, and the
telephone number looks like a single ten-digit number with no
separation. Some of this is inherent in the font, but can be overcome.

It looks somewhat better in the image with the orchid than in other
contexts, but that one doesn't have enough contrast for the words
JCDill and Photography to stand out.

In many cases, the word "Photography" looks too small in relationship
with your name, and in one particular case it's centered with other
text, which pushes it up too close to the "J". You should group it
with your name so the spatial relationship stays the same. It's
different on every image. In some configurations, it's too far away
from the name and looks like an afterthought.

Have you worked with some of the many other members of the Worstveld
and Worstveld Sling families? There are some useful variants available.

Also, I'd love to know the history of this typeface name, and the names
> of similar typefaces.

Why don't you contact Graham Meade directly and ask him? (I've always
been curious about the name, too). I can't find a current email
address, but MyFonts could probably help you contact him.

- Character

JC Dill

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Apr 1, 2009, 2:14:51 PM4/1/09
to
Character wrote:
> JC Dill wrote:
>
>> I'm currently using the Worstveld Sling Extra typeface in my marketing
>> materials. I would love feedback on what does or doesn't work with
>> this choice before I spend $$$ printing business cards and promotional
>> cards. If there's some reason this is a horrible choice and anyone
>> with design experience would think I'm a clueless noob, I'd like to
>> find out sooner rather than later. For context, I'm a photographer,
>> and I want to use a typeface that has some "artistic" elements while
>> still being clear and easy to read - especially when used for email
>> addresses and phone numbers.
>
>
>> You can see examples of how I'm going to use it here:
>>
>> http://www.flickr.com/photos/jcdill/sets/72157610411059277/
>>
>> (the designs with multi-images are just preliminary designs, the
>> single-image designs are much closer to finished)
>
> It's a matter of style. Overall, your work has a very nice "feel" to it.
> I particularly like the impression of informality combined with
> professionalism that I get.

Thanks! That's the feel I was going for.

> I find that the small lettering and tight letterspacing looks jumbled
> together, particularly in things like your email address, and the
> telephone number looks like a single ten-digit number with no
> separation. Some of this is inherent in the font, but can be overcome.

How would you suggest dealing with this? Should I change the kerning?

> It looks somewhat better in the image with the orchid than in other
> contexts, but that one doesn't have enough contrast for the words JCDill
> and Photography to stand out.

All of the multi-image layouts are *very* rough preliminary layouts. I
was playing with groups of images and different text choices (more
words, fewer words, etc.). None of those are near print-ready. Right
now I'm looking at printing with a single image on the front and no
images at all on the back - the back will be a post-card layout with
text on the left and a blank spot for address and stamp on the right.

> In many cases, the word "Photography" looks too small in relationship
> with your name, and in one particular case it's centered with other
> text, which pushes it up too close to the "J". You should group it with
> your name so the spatial relationship stays the same. It's different on
> every image. In some configurations, it's too far away from the name and
> looks like an afterthought.

Which layout version (for the relationship between JC Dill and
Photography - ignore the rest of the layout) do you feel works the best?

> Have you worked with some of the many other members of the Worstveld and
> Worstveld Sling families? There are some useful variants available.

I only have Worstveld Sling Extra and Worstveld Sling Extra Condensed.

> Also, I'd love to know the history of this typeface name, and the names
>> of similar typefaces.
>
> Why don't you contact Graham Meade directly and ask him? (I've always
> been curious about the name, too). I can't find a current email address,
> but MyFonts could probably help you contact him.

I'll give that a try. Thanks!

jc

Message has been deleted

Character

unread,
Apr 1, 2009, 4:23:22 PM4/1/09
to
JC Dill wrote:

> Character wrote:
>
>> JC Dill wrote:
>>
>>> I'm currently using the Worstveld Sling Extra typeface in my
>>> marketing materials. I would love feedback on what does or doesn't
>>> work with this choice before I spend $$$ printing business cards and
>>> promotional cards. If there's some reason this is a horrible choice
>>> and anyone with design experience would think I'm a clueless noob,
>>> I'd like to find out sooner rather than later. For context, I'm a
>>> photographer, and I want to use a typeface that has some "artistic"
>>> elements while still being clear and easy to read - especially when
>>> used for email addresses and phone numbers.
>>
>>
>>
>>> You can see examples of how I'm going to use it here:
>>>
>>> http://www.flickr.com/photos/jcdill/sets/72157610411059277/
>>>
>>> (the designs with multi-images are just preliminary designs, the
>>> single-image designs are much closer to finished)
>>
>>
>> It's a matter of style. Overall, your work has a very nice "feel" to
>> it. I particularly like the impression of informality combined with
>> professionalism that I get.
>
>
> Thanks! That's the feel I was going for.

Great!

>> I find that the small lettering and tight letterspacing looks jumbled
>> together, particularly in things like your email address, and the
>> telephone number looks like a single ten-digit number with no
>> separation. Some of this is inherent in the font, but can be overcome.
>
>
> How would you suggest dealing with this? Should I change the kerning?

What it's called may depend on the layout tool you're using. In
Illustrator or Corel Draw you can drag individual letters around. In a
word processor you may be able to adjust the letter-spacing for many
characters at once - in a one-size fits all way. I don't know if this
feature ever made it into InDesign, but at one time they were talking
about being able to establish kerning pairs, overriding the kerning
built into a font, so that the same pair would always be kerned the
same way in a given document. If not, you can adjust them one at a
time. No big deal for a business card, hell on wheels for War and Peace.

>> It looks somewhat better in the image with the orchid than in other
>> contexts, but that one doesn't have enough contrast for the words
>> JCDill and Photography to stand out.
>
>
> All of the multi-image layouts are *very* rough preliminary layouts. I
> was playing with groups of images and different text choices (more
> words, fewer words, etc.). None of those are near print-ready. Right
> now I'm looking at printing with a single image on the front and no
> images at all on the back - the back will be a post-card layout with
> text on the left and a blank spot for address and stamp on the right.
>
>> In many cases, the word "Photography" looks too small in relationship
>> with your name, and in one particular case it's centered with other
>> text, which pushes it up too close to the "J". You should group it
>> with your name so the spatial relationship stays the same. It's
>> different on every image. In some configurations, it's too far away
>> from the name and looks like an afterthought.
>
>
> Which layout version (for the relationship between JC Dill and
> Photography - ignore the rest of the layout) do you feel works the best?

The last two - the orchid and the white flowers (lilies?). I think
"Photography" should be heavier; that would also affect the best
visual placement and size, too. It's a balancing act.


>> Have you worked with some of the many other members of the Worstveld
>> and Worstveld Sling families? There are some useful variants available.
>
>
> I only have Worstveld Sling Extra and Worstveld Sling Extra Condensed.

The entire free family is available at fontspace and other places. You
might also take a look at Worsveld Sting. That's sTing - Graham says
that this is an improved rendition - and not free.

>> Also, I'd love to know the history of this typeface name, and the names
>>
>>> of similar typefaces.
>>
>>
>> Why don't you contact Graham Meade directly and ask him? (I've always
>> been curious about the name, too). I can't find a current email
>> address, but MyFonts could probably help you contact him.
>
>
> I'll give that a try. Thanks!
>

Welcome

- CH.

JC Dill

unread,
Apr 1, 2009, 6:11:29 PM4/1/09
to
jon_f wrote:
>
> First off I'd like to commend you on showing your creative decision
> making process. You are obviously thinking about the many elements that
> go into graphic communication.

Thanks! I don't know a lot about this graphic design, but I do try my
best to not make a complete hash of it.

> I like the typeface quite a bit and agree with the observation that you
> present yourself as an easy-to-deal-with photographer. I think the most
> successful pieces are those which knock the type out of black. For some
> reason I find these even more legible than the others. It also harkens
> back to black & white photography, something I am heavily involved in.

Good point. Do you like how it works on the 3 single-image examples (the
card front examples)?

> The least successful use of the face is the piece with the drop shadow.
> It may just be that I am looking at it on a computer monitor, and it
> would be fine printed, but I feel that use is just weaker than the
> others.

I dropped the drop-shadow idea already. The only reason that image is
still in is because of the group of images shown.

> The relative sizes and positions of your name and the word "photography"
> is most successful when the words are flush right
> (2008-11-18-jcd-leave-behind-back-3.jpg), which leaves enough room
> between the "J" and the "P". You can enlarge the word Photography and
> snug it up a little closer to your name to form a more cohesive
> "logo-object" without crowding.

How do you feel about the relative size and spacing in my name and
"photography" in 2008-11-18-jcd-leave-behind-front.jpg ?

> The size relationships between your phone number and email address are
> best in the next to last image (2008-11-18-jcd-leave-behind-back-4.jpg).
> The type is big enough that the phone number looks like a phone number.
> The entire block of text which is optically justified is very
> successful, except that your name is lost against the orchid. That would
> look better knocked out of the background.

I'm not going to use the text-over-orchid idea. I'm going for simpler
backgrounds when I'm using text over the image, as seen in the 3
single-image examples.

I would love your thoughts on which of the 3 single-image examples you
prefer, and why.

> I hope this helps, and I wish you luck in your corporate ID project.

It helps a lot, and thank you!

jc

JC Dill

unread,
Apr 1, 2009, 6:23:09 PM4/1/09
to
Dick Margulis wrote:
> JC Dill wrote:
>> I'm currently using the Worstveld Sling Extra typeface in my marketing
>> materials. I would love feedback on what does or doesn't work with
>> this choice before I spend $$$ printing business cards and promotional
>> cards. If there's some reason this is a horrible choice and anyone
>> with design experience would think I'm a clueless noob, I'd like to
>> find out sooner rather than later. For context, I'm a photographer,
>> and I want to use a typeface that has some "artistic" elements while
>> still being clear and easy to read - especially when used for email
>> addresses and phone numbers.
>
> Seems to me you were here some months ago looking at comparisons of a
> number of similar fonts, worrying in particular about how your name
> rendered in them in terms of legibility and letterspacing. I think
> you've found one that works well in that regard. Your samples are all
> legible.

Yes, that was me. So far I'm pretty happy with this typeface.

> This particular handwriting font has--it seems to me--a femininity to
> it. Some others might be more gender neutral (and others might be quite
> masculine, creating a different sensibility altogether). But I don't
> know your goal. You may be trying to convey something of the feminine
> about yourself or you may be trying to attract a clientele that has a
> feminine sensibility. Given the large gay community in the Bay Area, I
> don't think the femininity of the typeface is going to put off a large
> segment of your potential market (and it's not extreme, in any case).

That's a good point, and one I hadn't considered. I *am* female, but
I'd like a marketing presence that is not quite so obviously female, but
still convey a sense of artistic sensibilities.

> It's also not a _serious_ typeface. It's playful, suggesting that you're
> a friendly person to do business with and you're not going to get all
> arrogant and in-your-face with clients about your professional and
> artistic integrity. If they want a picture of their horse wearing a
> frilly pink hat, by golly, you're the go-to photographer.

Hmmm. I want to be taken a bit more seriously than that. Not that I'd
refuse to take a photo of the horse wearing a frilly pink hat, but I'd
like to appeal to those who are looking for more artistic photos.

Thanks for your thoughts.

jc

JC Dill

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Apr 1, 2009, 6:28:00 PM4/1/09
to
Character wrote:

>>> I find that the small lettering and tight letterspacing looks jumbled
>>> together, particularly in things like your email address, and the
>>> telephone number looks like a single ten-digit number with no
>>> separation. Some of this is inherent in the font, but can be overcome.
>>
>>
>> How would you suggest dealing with this? Should I change the kerning?
>
> What it's called may depend on the layout tool you're using. In
> Illustrator or Corel Draw you can drag individual letters around. In a
> word processor you may be able to adjust the letter-spacing for many
> characters at once - in a one-size fits all way. I don't know if this
> feature ever made it into InDesign, but at one time they were talking
> about being able to establish kerning pairs, overriding the kerning
> built into a font, so that the same pair would always be kerned the same
> way in a given document. If not, you can adjust them one at a time. No
> big deal for a business card, hell on wheels for War and Peace.

I'm using the text tools in Photoshop CS3. I could use Illustrator, but
I'm much more experienced with Photoshop than Illustrator. Is there
some reason I should avoid just adjusting the kerning for the entire
group or block as a whole (e.g. spacing out all the letters a bit more
for readability)? I think I can adjust them one-by-one using PS CS3 if
necessary, and I'll give Illustrator a try if Photoshop proves inadequate.

>> Which layout version (for the relationship between JC Dill and
>> Photography - ignore the rest of the layout) do you feel works the best?
>
> The last two - the orchid and the white flowers (lilies?). I think

The 2 white flowers in the vase are cyclamen:

http://images.google.com/images?q=cyclamen

> "Photography" should be heavier; that would also affect the best visual
> placement and size, too. It's a balancing act.

Thanks! I'll play with those layouts and see if I can balance it up.

>>> Have you worked with some of the many other members of the Worstveld
>>> and Worstveld Sling families? There are some useful variants available.
>>
>>
>> I only have Worstveld Sling Extra and Worstveld Sling Extra Condensed.
>
> The entire free family is available at fontspace and other places. You
> might also take a look at Worsveld Sting. That's sTing - Graham says
> that this is an improved rendition - and not free.

I don't have any budget for a "not free" font at present. After I get
some marketing in effect and business picks up, I'll look at expanding
my font choices with paid fonts. I don't have a $dayjob paycheck to pay
my bills, and with the current economy it's hard being self-employed.

jc

Dick Margulis

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Apr 1, 2009, 6:50:48 PM4/1/09
to
JC Dill wrote:
> I'm using the text tools in Photoshop CS3. I could use Illustrator, but
> I'm much more experienced with Photoshop than Illustrator.

Because Illustrator is a vector-based program, it renders type as sharp
outlines instead of rasterizing it the way Photoshop does (creating a
certain fuzziness at the edges). So the general idea is that you use
Photoshop to manipulate images and Illustrator to manipulate vector
diagrams (or fonts) and then layer them together, either directly in
Illustrator or in InDesign. The type tools in Photoshop are great if you
want to use the various Photoshop filters and tools on them for special
effects. But if you just want clear, sharp type, try using either
Illustrator or InDesign.

Message has been deleted

Andreas Höfeld

unread,
Apr 6, 2009, 9:16:08 AM4/6/09
to
Dick Margulis schrieb:

>> Also, I'd love to know the history of this typeface name, and the
>> names of similar typefaces.
>
> Designers can choose whatever names they wish when they're into
> idiosyncratic and informal display faces like that.

IIRC Graham was mocking about a font called Wiesbaden Swing when he
first posted Worstveld Sling on a.b.f. It was a parody on that name.

Andreas

joker

unread,
May 9, 2009, 8:07:31 PM5/9/09
to
There were 16 or 18 in the family, depends on who has it. The name, as
suggested by Andreas, was a derivative of Weisbaden Swing, a gentle mock.
The origins of the font were four or six (I forget which) characters someone
sent to me. As was usual at the time, I made only one face, and had a few
derivatives laying around, so made a second face. People on Binaries.fonts
wanted more, so it just kept on going until there was 18. The original
released set had a few problems and about six months later made a few
corrections.


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