Emulators for Historical Computers?
Ron Nicholson
16-bit personal computers (apple][, c64, Sinclair, Mac, IBM PC, etc.)
You can still find a lot of these machines in good running condition.
I'm interested in hearing about emulators for well known historical
computers, where there may be few or no running examples except,
perhaps, in of museums. Are there any emulators for computers such as
the EDSAC, UNIVAC 1, the IBM 701, PDP-6, Burroughs B5000, etc.
Emulators for historical computers would be interesting as a way of
learning about the history of computing, and as a way of preserving
that history. It might be fun to run one of the original Fortran
compilers or LISP 1.0 systems.
---
Ronald H. Nicholson, Jr. r...@engr.sgi.com, r...@netcom.com, N6YWU
#include <canonical.disclaimer> // I speak only for myself, etc.
--
---
Ronald H. Nicholson, Jr. r...@engr.sgi.com, r...@netcom.com, N6YWU
#include <canonical.disclaimer> // I speak only for myself, etc.
Douglas W. Jones,201H MLH,3193350740,3193382879
by r...@waltz.engr.sgi.com (Ron Nicholson):
> I've seen a lot of postings about emulators for recent 8-bit and
> 16-bit personal computers ...
>
> I'm interested in hearing about emulators for well known historical
> computers, where there may be few or no running examples except,
> perhaps, in of museums. Are there any emulators for computers such as
> the EDSAC, UNIVAC 1, the IBM 701, PDP-6, Burroughs B5000, etc.
Keep an eye on alt.sys.pdp8 for emulators for that particular historical
machine (for the unaware, the pdp-8 was the first computer manufactured
in a tabletop configuration, the first sold for less than $10,000 (complete
system price, including I/O and software), the first computer offered for
retail sale, and a number of other firsts in the era from 1965 (when it
was introduced) to 1974 or so (when microcomputer systems displaced it
from price leadership).
I have a -8 emulator that runs under X-11 on UNIX that includes working
blinkenlights and switches. The released version only has emulated paper
tape and console TTY input-output, but a version with RX01 diskette
support is in the works, and after that hard job is finished, I'll do
the far easier job of adding some kind of hard disk.
> Emulators for historical computers would be interesting as a way of
> learning about the history of computing, and as a way of preserving
> that history.
It's not a new idea. I've got enough documentation on the -8 to keep
me busy for a while, and after I finish that, I'm tempted to take on the
IBM 701, complete with all the tight timing constraints of that machine's
odd (by modern standards) peripherals. I'd love to have a good emulator
for the Honeywell DDP-516 (that was the first 16 bit mini I really got
into in depth), but I don't have access to anything but memories of its
technical specs.
Doug Jones
jo...@cs.uiowa.edu
Mark Lentczner
the peripherals (which, one might claim were integral to the CPU on
that machine). I'm insearch of technical manuals for this device. Some
net souls are helping me a bit, but the more info the merrier. Anyone
got images of the peripherals - so I can do them justice on screen (of
course I'm modeling it down to the card read/punch sorters... :-)
-mark lentczner
ma...@netcom.com
Mark Aitchison - Physics and Astronomy Computologist
> I'm interested in hearing about emulators for well known historical
> computers, where there may be few or no running examples except,
> perhaps, in of museums. Are there any emulators for computers such as
> the EDSAC, UNIVAC 1, the IBM 701, PDP-6, Burroughs B5000, etc.
I'd like to see them too. I am thinking of writing an emulator for a Data
General Nova, and, for what its worth, I do know of an emulator for an IBM 360
but it ran on a computer that now needs emulating itself!
Mark Aitchison.
Douglas W. Jones,201H MLH,3193350740,3193382879
complete operating system (I believe). It's all on microfiche, and I
believe it includes utilities, the assembler, and the FORTRAN compiler.
Doug Jones
jo...@cs.uiowa.edu
Russell Schulz
ma...@netcom.com (Mark Lentczner) writes:
> I've begun work on an IBM 1401 emulator. This will include
> emulation of the peripherals (which, one might claim were
> integral to the CPU on that machine). I'm insearch of technical
> manuals for this device.
does anyone have old software? does anyone have any way to read it?
--
Russell Schulz rus...@alpha3.ersys.edmonton.ab.ca ersys!rschulz Shad 86c
Douglas W. Jones,201H MLH,3193350740,3193382879
>
> does anyone have old software? does anyone have any way to read it?
I have a deck of microfiche that claims to be a complete assembly listing
of the IBM 1130 operating system, including the FORTRAN compiler and other
related stuff. Presumably someone out there has hoarded similar bits
for other old iron.
How to recover the data? Kurzweil makes great reading machines, and others
are on the market. If we can use one to read the fiche and make ASCII from
it, then all we need to do is write filters to strip off the irrelevant
stuff and leave us with reconstructed source files. Other filtering on
an assembly listing might even be able to reconstruct object files (no
guarantee, since not all the object file structure makes it into many
assembly listing formats).
Doug Jones
jo...@cs.uiowa.edu
Michael Hughes
a>
Distribution:
Russell Schulz (rus...@alpha3.ersys.edmonton.ab.ca) wrote:
: (copied to a.f.c)
: ma...@netcom.com (Mark Lentczner) writes:
: > I've begun work on an IBM 1401 emulator. This will include
: > emulation of the peripherals (which, one might claim were
: > integral to the CPU on that machine). I'm insearch of technical
: > manuals for this device.
: does anyone have old software? does anyone have any way to read it?
If you need to read 9 track tape and get it to floppy (tar, dos) I can get
that done. I might have a way to get 80 col. card to diskette or 9 track tape.
Anyone have a IBM 650 emulator?
: --
: Russell Schulz rus...@alpha3.ersys.edmonton.ab.ca ersys!rschulz Shad 86c
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gdrue...@csupomona.edu
[Stuff Deleted]
>
> I'm interested in hearing about emulators for well known historical
> computers, where there may be few or no running examples except,
> perhaps, in of museums. Are there any emulators for computers such as
> the EDSAC, UNIVAC 1, the IBM 701, PDP-6, Burroughs B5000, etc.
>
> Emulators for historical computers would be interesting as a way of
> learning about the history of computing, and as a way of preserving
> that history. It might be fun to run one of the original Fortran
> compilers or LISP 1.0 systems.
>
> ---
> Ronald H. Nicholson, Jr. r...@engr.sgi.com, r...@netcom.com, N6YWU
> #include <canonical.disclaimer> // I speak only for myself, etc.
--
Hello Ronald,
I know of a P.E.T. Emulator for the Vic-20 Computer. It emulators the original
4k P.E.T. Computer by Commodore on a Vic-20. Now, if you have a modern
computer such as an Amiga/IBM, and are able to get a Vix-20 emulator, then I
suppose you can then emulate P.E.T. on the Vic emulator. This would be th
elong way around...
Anyhow, The onyl computer that I know to have a vix-20 emulator is the Amiga,
though the IBm night have one, but I have never heard of one...
---
Gene Ruebsamen
+ Computer Dept. Chair, ERA Champion Realty. +
Email: gdrue...@vmsa.is.csupomona.edu
The views that I express are not necessarily those of my employer.
Rob Janssen
>In article <CrCp7...@odin.corp.sgi.com>, r...@waltz.engr.sgi.com (Ron Nicholson) writes:
: [Stuff Deleted]
:>
:> I'm interested in hearing about emulators for well known historical
:> computers, where there may be few or no running examples except,
:> perhaps, in of museums. Are there any emulators for computers such as
:> the EDSAC, UNIVAC 1, the IBM 701, PDP-6, Burroughs B5000, etc.
:>
:> Emulators for historical computers would be interesting as a way of
:> learning about the history of computing, and as a way of preserving
:> that history. It might be fun to run one of the original Fortran
:> compilers or LISP 1.0 systems.
:>
:> ---
:> Ronald H. Nicholson, Jr. r...@engr.sgi.com, r...@netcom.com, N6YWU
:> #include <canonical.disclaimer> // I speak only for myself, etc.
:--
:Hello Ronald,
:I know of a P.E.T. Emulator for the Vic-20 Computer. It emulators the original
:4k P.E.T. Computer by Commodore on a Vic-20. Now, if you have a modern
:computer such as an Amiga/IBM, and are able to get a Vix-20 emulator, then I
:suppose you can then emulate P.E.T. on the Vic emulator. This would be th
:elong way around...
:Anyhow, The onyl computer that I know to have a vix-20 emulator is the Amiga,
:though the IBm night have one, but I have never heard of one...
So, make an Amiga emulator for the IBM PC and you can... well, you get
the idea :-)
Rob
VERLIN RAY HENDERSON
Careful there, Rob...Lord knows what'll happen the next time the IBM/Amiga
wars start up again. :)
Verlin
James Cooper
>:I know of a P.E.T. Emulator for the Vic-20 Computer. It emulators the original
>:4k P.E.T. Computer by Commodore on a Vic-20. Now, if you have a modern
>:computer such as an Amiga/IBM, and are able to get a Vix-20 emulator, then I
>:suppose you can then emulate P.E.T. on the Vic emulator. This would be th
>:elong way around...
>
>:Anyhow, The onyl computer that I know to have a vix-20 emulator is the Amiga,
>:though the IBm night have one, but I have never heard of one...
>
>So, make an Amiga emulator for the IBM PC and you can... well, you get
>the idea :-)
Or, just get an Amiga, and let the PET emulation run in the Vic-20
emulator *while* the IBM PC emulator is running in another window, along
with the MAC emulator, the Atari XL emulator, etc., etc., etc. ... ain't
multitasking wonderful? :-)
--
---------------
Jim Cooper
(ja...@unx.sas.com) bix: jcooper
Any opinions expressed herein are mine (Mine, all mine! Ha, ha, ha!),
and not necessarily those of my employer.
Remember, "Euphemisms are for the differently brained."
Rob Janssen
>Or, just get an Amiga, and let the PET emulation run in the Vic-20
>emulator *while* the IBM PC emulator is running in another window, along
>with the MAC emulator, the Atari XL emulator, etc., etc., etc. ... ain't
>multitasking wonderful? :-)
Oops... I forgot to realize that there may be Amiga fans reading along,
to whom the Amiga is the best computer ever made, and multitasking is
something "wonderful".
Note that not all IBM PCs run MSDOS, and that multitasking is hardly
anything noteworthy since about 20 years.
Rob
Marat Fayzullin
Here we go :) Another Amiga VS IBM war :)))
Amiga DOES have a lot of different emulators and you ARE able to run
them concurrently and it IS beatiful IMHO. As to IBM, we yet need to
see an emulator which wouldn't grab your entire machine preventing
you from doing anything else on it. Seriously, folks, did anybody
try to experiment with emulators under OS/2 or some other multitasking
shit IBM has? I know that xzx runs well on BSD Unixes [Unixen? :)]
for PC, but are there any emulators running in multitasking mode under
OS/2 or [let's say this terrible name] Windows NT?
Marat Fayzullin [FMS]
Still waiting for MSX emulator for Amiga and GameBoy emulator for
*anything*.
: Rob
Jeff Hunsinger
for the IBM. You can grab it from either ftp.funet.fi or ccnga.uwaterloo.ca
Jeff
Michael O'Brien
> As to IBM, we yet need to see an emulator which wouldn't grab your entire
> machine preventing you from doing anything else on it. Seriously, folks,
> multitasking shit IBM has?
Yes, I've written an emulator which is a Windows program, and it multitasks
just fine.
Mike
Paul J Hollander
>
>In article <2u9dsp$p...@NE3995.rabo.nl>, rob...@rabo.nl (Rob Janssen) writes:
>>In <1994Jun21.222952.1@clstac> gdrue...@csupomona.edu writes:
>>:I know of a P.E.T. Emulator for the Vic-20 Computer. It emulators the original
>>:4k P.E.T. Computer by Commodore on a Vic-20. Now, if you have a modern
>>:computer such as an Amiga/IBM, and are able to get a Vix-20 emulator, then I
>>:suppose you can then emulate P.E.T. on the Vic emulator. This would be th
>>:elong way around...
>>
>>:Anyhow, The onyl computer that I know to have a vix-20 emulator is the Amiga,
>>:though the IBm night have one, but I have never heard of one...
>>
>>So, make an Amiga emulator for the IBM PC and you can... well, you get
>>the idea :-)
Commodore came out with a PET emulator that ran on the C64. I've got one
(somewhere in my dusty boxes of 64 software). Transactor Mag printed a very
short BASIC prg that would let you load PET BASIC programs into a 64. It
mostly just shifted the start of BASIC address to the PET address. Want that?
BTW, CBM's PET emulator mostly did the same thing. ML programs had to be
translated to the C64 equivalent.
I think a Toaster Box can be attached to an IBM PC. That would emulate an
Amiga perfectly. 8-)
>
>Or, just get an Amiga, and let the PET emulation run in the Vic-20
>emulator *while* the IBM PC emulator is running in another window, along
>with the MAC emulator, the Atari XL emulator, etc., etc., etc. ... ain't
>multitasking wonderful? :-)
Sure is. Just wish the cpu between my ears would multitask enough to let me
rub my head and pat my belly at the same time. 8-)
Paul Hollander phol...@iastate.edu
Behold the tortoise: he makes no progress unless he sticks his neck out.
--
Greg Alt
>Amiga DOES have a lot of different emulators and you ARE able to run
>them concurrently and it IS beatiful IMHO. As to IBM, we yet need to
>see an emulator which wouldn't grab your entire machine preventing
>you from doing anything else on it. Seriously, folks, did anybody
>try to experiment with emulators under OS/2 or some other multitasking
>shit IBM has? I know that xzx runs well on BSD Unixes [Unixen? :)]
>for PC, but are there any emulators running in multitasking mode under
>OS/2 or [let's say this terrible name] Windows NT?
This brings up two questions that I've had... What emulators are
available that run under X-Windows?
The second question... Does anyone have a FAQ that lists available
emulators, the systems they run on, and where they can be obtained?
I think this would be very useful for this group, and it shouldn't
be too difficult to write.
Greg
Jeff Jonas
(Douglas W. Jones,201H MLH,3193350740,3193382879) writes:
>From article <940616.085504.4...@alpha3.ersys.edmonton.ab.ca>,
by rus...@alpha3.ersys.edmonton.ab.ca (Russell Schulz):
>> (copied to a.f.c)
>> ma...@netcom.com (Mark Lentczner) writes:
>>> I've begun work on an IBM 1401 emulator. ...
>> does anyone have old software? does anyone have any way to read it?
>
>I have a deck of microfiche that claims to be a complete assembly listing
>of the IBM 1130 operating system, including the FORTRAN compiler and other
>related stuff. Presumably someone out there has hoarded similar bits
>for other old iron.
Sigh - I used an IBM system 1130 in college and it was an eloquent
design - the instruction format was so nice.
An emulator would *HAVE* to simulate the front panel-o-blinkenlights.
The really fun manual was the one with the flowcharts for every INSTRUCTION!
Yes - follow along the machine cycle by cycle!
I still have a few manuals and the machine instruction cards.
It was a GREAT way to learn machine architecture - nothing was hidden.
>How to recover the data? Kurzweil makes great reading machines, and others
>are on the market. If we can use one to read the fiche and make ASCII from
>it, then all we need to do is write filters to strip off the irrelevant
>stuff and leave us with reconstructed source files. Other filtering on
>an assembly listing might even be able to reconstruct object files (no
>guarantee, since not all the object file structure makes it into many
>assembly listing formats).
> Doug Jones
> jo...@cs.uiowa.edu
Yeepers - you make it sound - plausable.
Getting all the software into a moderm readable form is the first step -
the machine simulator is needed and if you use, say, a PC under DOS
you can use the native I/O routines to replace the raw I/O of the
1130's disk monitor system.
By the way, I have a card with Autocoder mnemonics
should I need to re-use my dad's old programs!
--
Jeffrey Jonas
je...@panix.com
jcooper on BIX
<sigh>
Your message had a "smiley" on it, so I (quite mistakenly, it appears) assumed
you would take my message in the same spirit in which I took yours...
True, multitasking has been around even longer than I've been mixed up in the
computer business (which is *longer* than 20 years, BTW!), but different
implementations have different "feels" to them.
Besides, why am I even responding? You are obviously quite defensive about your
system, and I shouldn't be causing you this stress... sorry.
Ken Udut
> *anything*.
I believe there is a GameBoy emulator for Super NES, but I'm not sure.
I'm not a game-person, but I think I saw a commercial for it. Keep your
eyes peeled on "Toys 'R' Us" advertisments, if you get them.
--
Ken Udut : Send me E-Mail requesting addition to the Optimism Digest :
Composer/Performer (Piano) on Union Records (NJ, USA) : Listowner of
Y-RI...@SJUVM.BITNET - Kid/Teen RIghts Discussion Group : INFP :
* ku...@ritz.mordor.com * : "Believe and you will achieve" -[Ken]-
William R. Ward
) I know of a P.E.T. Emulator for the Vic-20 Computer. It emulators the original
) 4k P.E.T. Computer by Commodore on a Vic-20. Now, if you have a modern
) computer such as an Amiga/IBM, and are able to get a Vix-20 emulator, then I
) suppose you can then emulate P.E.T. on the Vic emulator. This would be th
) elong way around...
If you're interested in Commodore 8-bit emulators, check out
comp.emulators.cbm. I think mainly there are just C-64 emulators, but
I think there may be a VIC-20 or PET emulator available somewhere.
--Bill.
--
William R Ward __o __o 1803 Mission St. #339
Bay View Software and Consulting _-\<,-\<,_ Santa Cruz CA 95060 USA
Voicemail +1 408/479-4072 (_)/---/ (_) her...@cats.ucsc.edu
Call my tree-structured BBS: +1 408/457-1357 (300-2400 baud, MNP/5, 8/N/1)
(Finger her...@ucscb.ucsc.edu for PGP public key)
Chris Fred Moates
Well, there is one for the C-64 as well...called, surprise, "PET EMULATOR". It
emulates any PET (just about), as well as BASIC 4.0.
Chris Fred Moates
>> the idea :-)
>wars start up again. :)
I'd rather not see those...I have an Amiga and I do like it very much, but
I don't start wars with it. But anyway, I had a very neat experience the other
day with emulators...From my Amiga, I ran a Mac emulator, which ran a PC
emulator, which ran a C64 emulator, which ran a VIC-20 emulator, which ran a
4K PET emulator. (I just had to see how many layers of emulators I could
have at one time :)
Chris Fred Moates
How about a Gameboy emulator for the Amiga? There is one, but the file format
it uses is currently unknown...
Thorbjoern Ravn Andersen
>I'd rather not see those...I have an Amiga and I do like it very much, but
>I don't start wars with it. But anyway, I had a very neat experience the other
>day with emulators...From my Amiga, I ran a Mac emulator, which ran a PC
>emulator, which ran a C64 emulator, which ran a VIC-20 emulator, which ran a
>4K PET emulator. (I just had to see how many layers of emulators I could
>have at one time :)
Appears to me you have just a single CPU emulator running in all these.
(680x0 running a 6502) This means probably that the PET ran quite well,
but just to satisfy my curiosity, could you estimate the speed of the
PET "machine"?
Regards,
--
Thorbjørn Ravn Andersen
ra...@imada.ou.dk "HTML is a SGML DTD".
Russell Alphey
>The second question... Does anyone have a FAQ that lists available
>emulators, the systems they run on, and where they can be obtained?
There is an FAQ for comp.emulators.cbm (Emulators of CBM machines). It can
be found in comp.emulators.announce and comp.emulators.cbm on a monthly
basis, around the 5th.
It's also available on a number of ftp sites (of hand I can't recall which :(
Email me if you want a copy (I'm now the maintainer).
Ralphey.
--
| You are now the proud recipient of a genuine Ralphey .sig! |
| Accept no imitations! |
| R.Al...@dce.vic.gov.au : Ph. +61-3-651-3057 Fax +61-3-651-4073 |
Paul M. Liss
>> Still waiting for MSX emulator for Amiga and GameBoy emulator for
>> *anything*.
>
>I believe there is a GameBoy emulator for Super NES, but I'm not sure.
>I'm not a game-person, but I think I saw a commercial for it. Keep your
>eyes peeled on "Toys 'R' Us" advertisments, if you get them.
>
There is a Game Boy emulator for the Amiga. I ran Tetris on it and it
worked fine.
Paul
--
-- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
Launchpad is an experimental internet BBS. The views of its users do not
necessarily represent those of UNC-Chapel Hill, OIT, or the SysOps.
-- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
Dave Smythe
>In article <2tsc5m$g...@nexus.uiowa.edu> jo...@pyrite.cs.uiowa.edu
> (Douglas W. Jones,201H MLH,3193350740,3193382879) writes:
>
>Sigh - I used an IBM system 1130 in college and it was an eloquent
>design - the instruction format was so nice.
>An emulator would *HAVE* to simulate the front panel-o-blinkenlights.
I was telling my Dad about working on a Verilog simulation and how
nice it was to be able to see what was happening down inside the
CPU, and he told me that when he was at ERA (later Univac) that
Seymour Cray had, after hours, programmed a similar simulation of
the machine that they were building at the time. It would display
the machine's internal state and all of the front panel lights,
and could be advanced a clock cycle at a time. An amazing part of
this was that it was all written in machine code (octal, I'd guess)
and in about 1956 or so...
I guess Cray wrote a paper about it and got some recognition at the
time for the innovation.
D
--
========================================================================
Dave Smythe N6XLP dsm...@netcom.com (also dsm...@cs.stanford.edu)
"If you're haptic and you know it, clap your hands! x/~ x/~"
Eric Boon
>pur...@shell.portal.com (Chris Fred Moates) writes:
[...]
>>...From my Amiga, I ran a Mac emulator, which ran a PC
>>emulator, which ran a C64 emulator, which ran a VIC-20 emulator, which ran a
>>4K PET emulator. (I just had to see how many layers of emulators I could
>>have at one time :)
>Appears to me you have just a single CPU emulator running in all these.
>(680x0 running a 6502) This means probably that the PET ran quite well,
No. You have a M680x0 emulating a I80x8/I80x86 emulating a 6510 etc...
But it's not just about emulating the CPU. You have to emulate
-peripheral hardware (Video/Audio)
-I/O
-interrupts (timing!!)
etc.
So, my guess is that the final PET is quite slow
ciao,
--
Eric.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
er...@cs.kun.nl | [PRINCIPLE] Your program should not crash.
| -"Programming the user interface"
Thorbjoern Ravn Andersen
>In <1994Jun26.1...@imada.ou.dk> ra...@imada.ou.dk (Thorbjoern Ravn Andersen) writes:
>>pur...@shell.portal.com (Chris Fred Moates) writes:
> [...]
>>>...From my Amiga, I ran a Mac emulator, which ran a PC
>>>emulator, which ran a C64 emulator, which ran a VIC-20 emulator, which ran a
>>>4K PET emulator. (I just had to see how many layers of emulators I could
>>>have at one time :)
>>Appears to me you have just a single CPU emulator running in all these.
>>(680x0 running a 6502) This means probably that the PET ran quite well,
>No. You have a M680x0 emulating a I80x8/I80x86 emulating a 6510 etc...
>But it's not just about emulating the CPU. You have to emulate
>-peripheral hardware (Video/Audio)
>-I/O
>-interrupts (timing!!)
>etc.
>So, my guess is that the final PET is quite slow
Oops. I missed the PC part. (Nasty habit of mine :-() Still, As I see
it, there is basically only two CPU' emulators (unless the CPU in a PET
wasn't a 6502) -- and even the O/S overhead shouldn't have that much of
an influence. When comparing the speed of a rapid Amiga to an aged PET,
there is quite a factor down to the original speed, so I still want to
know how fast the PET simulation ran.
Eric Boon
>Oops. I missed the PC part. (Nasty habit of mine :-()
But fully understandable :-)
PC's are best overlooked! :-)
simp...@gmail.com
Here's the ROM.
https://www.emuparadise.me/Super_Nintendo_Entertainment_System_(SNES)_ROMs/Super_Game_Boy_(World)/35671
Kenneth Udut, 23 years later.
