letter-set
numath
with the US-character-set and without transcribing (like "u or ue for
the umlaut u) ?
just wondering ...
Edmund Grimley-Evans
> with the US-character-set and without transcribing (like "u or ue for
> the umlaut u) ?
Contrary to a common misconception ASCII is not really sufficient even
for English, which is why TeX has:
resum\'e n\'ee
fa\c cade
No\"el
belov\`ed
medi\ae val [a bit old-fashioned]
r\^ole
`` '' [should be single characters really]
Other languages with a Latin alphabet in which diacritics play a similarly
minor r\^ole are Indonezian, Dutch and a lot of African languages.
Peter Castine
>
>> is there any other language than English and equals that can do
>> with the US-character-set and without transcribing (like "u or ue for
>> the umlaut u) ?
>
>
>Other languages with a Latin alphabet in which diacritics play a similarly
>minor r\^ole are Indonezian, Dutch and a lot of African languages.
How about Latin itself? More-or-less dead, but natural nonetheless.
--
Peter Castine | Dr. Who quote du jour:
pcas...@prz.tu-berlin.de | Have you noticed the way people's
===========================| intelligence capabilities decline sharply
``Have Mac, will travel'' | the minute they start waving guns around?
Stephan Hoffmann
: is there any other language than English and equals that can do
: with the US-character-set and without transcribing (like "u or ue for
: the umlaut u) ?
: just wondering ...
I just asked my collegues, and they said dutch, italian and maybe portugese!
Stephan
--
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we borrow it from our children!
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Randy Nortman
>for English, which is why TeX has:
>
>resum\'e n\'ee
>fa\c cade
>No\"el
>belov\`ed
>medi\ae val [a bit old-fashioned]
>r\^ole
>`` '' [should be single characters really]
>
>Other languages with a Latin alphabet in which diacritics play a similarly
>minor r\^ole are Indonezian, Dutch and a lot of African languages.
I'm not sure what the standards in the UK are for these words, but I
know that in the US it's acceptable in most mediums to leave off accents
and ligatures, and the `` and '' characters can both be represented by
the same character, i.e. ". All the examples you gave are generally
excused in anything but formal writing and bookprinting (which is what
TeX is great for, in addition the scientific and mathematical texts).
I think that the thrust of the original post was that the author,
pprk...@ecx.tuwien.ac.at (numath), was perhaps a little upset by the
fact that ASCII is the standard in even countries whose languages
require much more.
But is this what this group is all about? I'd love to know....
--
Randall Nortman (aka Bob the WonderClown)
University of Chicago
rcno...@midway.uchicago.edu
My opinions are just that - my opinions.
Pierre Jelenc
Stephan Hoffmann <hoff...@SIX00078.erlm.siemens.de> wrote:
>numath (prk...@ecx.tuwien.ac.at) wrote:
>: is there any other language than English and equals that can do
>: with the US-character-set and without transcribing (like "u or ue for
>: the umlaut u) ?
>
>: just wondering ...
>
>I just asked my collegues, and they said dutch, italian and maybe portugese!
There are lots of accents in Italian and portuguese (plus the tilde in
the latter case).
Pierre
--
Pierre Jelenc * A day can really slip by when you're deliberately *
rc...@panix.com * avoiding what you're supposed to do. =Calvin= *
timo.pelkonen
David Carrigan
: swahili (sp?)
: --
: timo.p...@hut.fi
...I'd thought the ASCII adoption was due to portability... it is
a skene between '0' and '1' strings and, as japanese refer to it, romanji.
The inclusion, or better, exclusion of accents and ligatures is an
interesting issue however: how many words are spelled(sic) with a 'j' or
'q' in Italian? In German?
I have seen chinese terminals... but given the tremendous
number of "characters" in Chinese... is that similarly limited?
I'd say this whole discussion is natural. Appropriate? Yup.
--
O0O0O0O0O0O0O0O0O0O0O0O0O0O0O0O0O0O0O0O00O0O0O0O0O0O0O0O0O0O0O0O0O0O0O0O0OO0
oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
S T O N E David Carrigan 0 ver...@panix.com
Anders Holtsberg
>is there any other language than English and equals that can do
>with the US-character-set and without transcribing (like "u or ue for
>the umlaut u) ?
is there any language using latin derived letters that can _not_ do
with the LATIN1(=ISO8852-1 = MS-windows(?)) character set without transcribing?
>just wondering ...
mee too ...
Anders H
ps. esperanto is one. Or is it one to one hyphen(latin1) <--> hat(esperanto)?
Steve Dunham
: >is there any other language than English and equals that can do
: >with the US-character-set and without transcribing (like "u or ue for
: >the umlaut u) ?
: is there any language using latin derived letters that can _not_ do
: with the LATIN1(=ISO8852-1 = MS-windows(?)) character set without transcribing?
: ps. esperanto is one. Or is it one to one hyphen(latin1) <--> hat(esperanto)?
ISO Latin-1 (that is *ISO-8859-1*. You got the number wrong.) Is
currently the standard for internet news and mail, although it is
mostly used by people in foreign newsgroups because there are a lot of
outdated machines on the American internet (for example, DEC's
sendmail has a problem with this). ISO-8859-1 was designed for Western
European languages. A lot of eastern european languages use
characters that are not in Latin-1 (e.g. Polish. the native tongue of
the inventor of Esperanto).
As a side note, I've seen the Russian one, (Latin-7 ??) appear on
soc.russian.
Personally I think that Unicode would be best, but there aren't very
many editors for unicode out there. Unicode has fonts for all
languages, and it is IPA to keep linguists happy...
Steve Dunham
dun...@gdl.msu.edu
numath
: pprk...@ecx.tuwien.ac.at (numath), was perhaps a little upset by the
: fact that ASCII is the standard in even countries whose languages
: require much more.
I simply wanted to know which languages else are satisfied (assuming
that English was) by the character set:
by the way i think this Character-set VERY GOOD !!
(although my native lang German is not completely covered)
afterall it contains a basic set of characters and symbols
none of which are useless and it is simply not possible to
squeeze cyrillic, chinese AND latin characters into a 7-bit-wide
character....
: But is this what this group is all about? I'd love to know....
hmmm, still hits the topic better than "what is while() ?"
Anders Holtsberg
dun...@gdl.msu.edu:
>A lot of eastern european languages use
>characters that are not in Latin-1 (e.g. Polish. the native tongue of
>the inventor of Esperanto).
Yes, indeed, the slashed L is not there! But why didn't they
get that in place of all the Donald Duck characters 162-190(decimal)
i find on my machine?
AH
Leonid A. Broukhis
>is there any language using latin derived letters that can _not_ do
>with the LATIN1(=ISO8852-1 = MS-windows(?)) character set without transcribing?
>>just wondering ...
>mee too ...
Vietnamese.
Bambang Nurcahyo Prastowo
>Other languages with a Latin alphabet in which diacritics play a similarly
>minor r\^ole are Indonezian, Dutch and a lot of African languages.
The right spelling is Indonesian.
Bambang N. Prastowo (pras...@qucis.queensu.ca, grad. student)
Software Technology Laboratory, Dept. Computing & Info. Sci.
Queen's Univ., Kingston, Ontario, Canada K7L 3N6
Russell Holmes
: Anders Holtsberg (and...@maths.lth.se) wrote:
: Steve Dunham
: dun...@gdl.msu.edu
: As a side note, I've seen the Russian one, (Latin-7 ??) appear on
: soc.russian.
As a side note, here is written Chinese using ZWDOS:
~{DcCG:C#?~} But I live and work in French, and functions like
toupper() just don't work well on the French language because of the
accents.
Russell Holmes
*******************************************************************************
| I would add a snazzy line here, but it's all been said :( |
*******************************************************************************
TAKAHASHI Naoto
In article <2t4cum$v...@msuinfo.cl.msu.edu> dun...@gdl.msu.edu (Steve Dunham) writes:
SD> A lot of eastern european
SD> languages use characters that are not in Latin-1 (e.g. Polish. the
SD> native tongue of the inventor of Esperanto).
Most of the eastern european characters are in latin-2 (ISO 8859-2),
and Esperanto characters are in latin-3.
SD> As a side note, I've seen the Russian one, (Latin-7 ??) appear on
SD> soc.russian.
Cyrillic characters (including Russian) are in latin-5.
--
TAKAHASHI Naoto
Electrotechnical Laboratory, Japan
ntak...@etl.go.jp
Gary Kacmarcik
>
> As a side note, here is written Chinese using ZWDOS:
> ~{DcCG:C#?~} But I live and work in French, and functions like
> toupper() just don't work well on the French language because of the
> accents.
they also don't work well because of the french convention of omitting
the accent on capital letters. this practice is a more serious problem
for an upper-to-lower conversion routine that the actual writing of the
code.
supposedly, it is now becoming acceptable to put accents on upper-case
letters.
-gary
Steve Dunham
: : As a side note, I've seen the Russian one, (Latin-7 ??) appear on
: : soc.russian.
: As a side note, here is written Chinese using ZWDOS:
: ~{DcCG:C#?~} But I live and work in French, and functions like
: toupper() just don't work well on the French language because of the
: accents.
That is the fault of your C-compiler. (What are you using?) You
might want to look into how your compiler implements toupper, many
(including, I believe, GCC) use a macro and a 256 byte array , which
you could change.
Steve Dunham
dun...@gdl.msu.edu
Steve Dunham
: >>>>> "SD" == Steve Dunham <dun...@gdl.msu.edu> writes:
: In article <2t4cum$v...@msuinfo.cl.msu.edu> dun...@gdl.msu.edu (Steve Dunham) writes:
: SD> A lot of eastern european
: SD> languages use characters that are not in Latin-1 (e.g. Polish. the
: SD> native tongue of the inventor of Esperanto).
: Most of the eastern european characters are in latin-2 (ISO 8859-2),
: and Esperanto characters are in latin-3.
: SD> As a side note, I've seen the Russian one, (Latin-7 ??) appear on
: SD> soc.russian.
: Cyrillic characters (including Russian) are in latin-5.
I've been looking around for the specification of all of the iso-latin
fonts, but I can't find it. I think I saw it in an RFC once... I've
also seen mention of escape codes that are supposed to signal
switching from one font to another, does anyone know anything about
this?
Steve
dun...@gdl.msu.edu
Sean V. Kelley
|
|>is there any other language than English and equals that can do
|>with the US-character-set and without transcribing (like "u or ue for
|>the umlaut u) ?
|
|is there any language using latin derived letters that can _not_ do
|with the LATIN1(=ISO8852-1 = MS-windows(?)) character set without transcribing?
Cymraeg (Welsh) is not fully supported by LATIN1
--
=============================================================================
Sean V. Kelley ________ __o B'aite liom fe/in bheith ar
Lockheed Corp. _____ _`\<,_ thaoibh mhalai/ shle/ibhe,
kel...@ede.sanders.lockheed.com ___ (*)/ (*) Agus caili/n gaelach
a bheith 'mo chomhair
Miek Dekeyser SH512 7935
In article <2t1k2s$h...@lyra.csx.cam.ac.uk> et...@cl.cam.ac.uk (Edmund Grimley-Evans) writes:
>
>> is there any other language than English and equals that can do
>> with the US-character-set and without transcribing (like "u or ue for
>> the umlaut u) ?
>
[stuff deleted]
>
>Other languages with a Latin alphabet in which diacritics play a similarly
>minor r\^ole are Indonezian, Dutch and a lot of African languages.
Even in Dutch there are quite a number of words requiring a so-called 'trema' (typographically comparable with an umlaut): e.g. financi"ele.
Miek Dekeyser.