NEW PPPOE protocol for WIN 2000, works great

506 views
Skip to first unread message

Unknown

unread,
Feb 26, 2000, 3:00:00 AM2/26/00
to
I have been using the NTS 300 eval of 1.3 with win2k server but I
reloaded Win2k server on my machine yesterday and thougt I would try
this new protocal a friend using Bellsouth told me about. He heard
about it in the Bellsouth adsl newsgroup.

Here is the link http://user.cs.tu-berlin.de/~normanb/

Download the file and follow the detailed intructions in the included
readme.htm file.

KEY THING is that you must enter mindspring.com in the dial window.
The author says usually nothing is required and leave it blank, but
Mindspring adsl in Atlanta requires this entry. Connects and auth's
very fast. Speed is at least as good as NTS 300. Does not install a
fake adapter...just adds a protocol. I use 10.10.1.10, 255.255.255.0
and the mindspring dns number for my ehternet card IP setting. DON'T
FORGET TO UNBIND NETBIOS OVER IP OR EVERYONE CAN SEE YOUR COMPUTER.
See www.grc.com for details.

Ken

Unknown

unread,
Feb 26, 2000, 3:00:00 AM2/26/00
to

>KEY THING is that you must enter mindspring.com in the dial window.
>The author says usually nothing is required and leave it blank, but
>Mindspring adsl in Atlanta requires this entry.

I cross posted this from Mindsprings ADSL group. Obviously I wrote it
slanted towards Mindspringers. My friend on Bellsouth did not have to
enter anything in the dial window. Sorry for confusion.

Ken


John Navas

unread,
Feb 26, 2000, 3:00:00 AM2/26/00
to
[POSTED TO comp.dcom.xdsl]
ken <> wrote:

>DON'T
>FORGET TO UNBIND NETBIOS OVER IP OR EVERYONE CAN SEE YOUR COMPUTER.
>See www.grc.com for details.

Everyone can see your computer anytime that you are on the Internet with
an IP address. See my "File and Printer Sharing (NetBIOS) Fact and
Fiction" at <http://navasgrp.home.att.net/tech/cable_dsl.htm>.

--
Best regards,
John Navas <http://navasgrp.home.att.net/>
CABLE/DSL TIPS: <http://navasgrp.home.att.net/tech/cable_dsl.htm>

Unknown

unread,
Feb 26, 2000, 3:00:00 AM2/26/00
to
On Sat, 26 Feb 2000 13:44:19 -0800, John Navas
<spamf...@navasgrp.dublin.ca.us> wrote:

>[POSTED TO comp.dcom.xdsl]
>ken <> wrote:
>
>>DON'T
>>FORGET TO UNBIND NETBIOS OVER IP OR EVERYONE CAN SEE YOUR COMPUTER.
>>See www.grc.com for details.
>
>Everyone can see your computer anytime that you are on the Internet with
>an IP address. See my "File and Printer Sharing (NetBIOS) Fact and
>Fiction" at <http://navasgrp.home.att.net/tech/cable_dsl.htm>.


Well now, this is interesting...I visited the site you referenced
above and the information there and at grc.com are definitely in
conflict. I guess I could be accused of spreading the hysteria. I am
certainly no expert. So....everyone who read my original message about
unbinding netbios from ip......you decide.

John, is it true as Gibson says that if port 139 is open on an NT box,
that crackers can bang away at the box, basically at will and
indefinitely, with a brute force password cracker until they crack the
password? Does unbinding netbios from ip on the ethernet card
connected to the internet prevent them from attacking the password or
not?

Does removing the microsoft client in Win98 keep dialup networking
from saving the password for a modem connection to the internet?

PS, to people reading this thread, the pppoe software I was mentioning
seems to still be working great....thread kinda going off on a
tangent....but that's ok.

Thanks, Ken

John Navas

unread,
Feb 26, 2000, 3:00:00 AM2/26/00
to
[POSTED TO comp.dcom.xdsl]
ken <> wrote:

>On Sat, 26 Feb 2000 13:44:19 -0800, John Navas
><spamf...@navasgrp.dublin.ca.us> wrote:

>>Everyone can see your computer anytime that you are on the Internet with
>>an IP address. See my "File and Printer Sharing (NetBIOS) Fact and
>>Fiction" at <http://navasgrp.home.att.net/tech/cable_dsl.htm>.

>John, is it true as Gibson says that if port 139 is open on an NT box,


>that crackers can bang away at the box, basically at will and
>indefinitely, with a brute force password cracker until they crack the
>password?

My webpage goes into considerable detail on this. The bottom line is that
you can secure NetBIOS by many means, including the use strong passwords,
or by Scope ID.

The effectiveness of brute force password crackers are often greatly
exaggerated. For example, cracking of a strong password (mixed letters
and digits) or only 8 characters at a continuous rate of 100 attempts per
second would take on average about 450 years. Way long before then the
cracker will have moved on to easier fish to fry. ;-)

Scope ID is like another level of password protection, where the computer
isn't even visible to those that don't have the right password (Scope ID).
In fact, setting Scope ID will fool Steve's website into thinking that you
aren't even running NetBIOS over TCP/IP.

>Does unbinding netbios from ip on the ethernet card
>connected to the internet prevent them from attacking the password or
>not?

Unbinding NetBIOS from TCP/IP completely blocks access from the Internet.

>Does removing the microsoft client in Win98 keep dialup networking
>from saving the password for a modem connection to the internet?

That is one of the possible problems.

Unknown

unread,
Feb 26, 2000, 3:00:00 AM2/26/00
to
>>>DON'T
>>>FORGET TO UNBIND NETBIOS OVER IP OR EVERYONE CAN SEE YOUR COMPUTER.
>>>See www.grc.com for details.
>>
>>Everyone can see your computer anytime that you are on the Internet with
>>an IP address. See my "File and Printer Sharing (NetBIOS) Fact and
>>Fiction" at <http://navasgrp.home.att.net/tech/cable_dsl.htm>.
>
>
>Well now, this is interesting...I visited the site you referenced
>above and the information there and at grc.com are definitely in
>conflict. I guess I could be accused of spreading the hysteria. I am
>certainly no expert. So....everyone who read my original message about
>unbinding netbios from ip......you decide.
>
>John, is it true as Gibson says that if port 139 is open on an NT box,
>that crackers can bang away at the box, basically at will and
>indefinitely, with a brute force password cracker until they crack the
>password? Does unbinding netbios from ip on the ethernet card

>connected to the internet prevent them from attacking the password or
>not?
>
>Does removing the microsoft client in Win98 keep dialup networking
>from saving the password for a modem connection to the internet?
>
>PS, to people reading this thread, the pppoe software I was mentioning
>seems to still be working great....thread kinda going off on a
>tangent....but that's ok.
>
>Thanks, Ken

And the plot thickens..............I am begining to feel like I have
step into the middle of somthin'. I am outa' this thread, bye.
From news.grc.com
Ken

> Look for ShieldsUp on Content menu. Actually, there is quite
> a bit of interesting (albeit contradictory) information on the
> page. Who is one to believe?
> http://navasgrp.home.att.net/tech/netbios.htm

Just use your own judgement. If you read my site's content, and
understand what I'm saying, the logic and truth behind everything
should be clear. (As it has been to so many others.)

What you don't know is that John Navas used to work for a hard disk
manufacturer twelve years ago ... and that he's had a serious personal
hatred for me (due to my SpinRite product) ever since. Early in the
life of the ShieldsUP! site I heard reports of his rantings over in
the cable newsgroup and I went over. He was telling everyone that
SpinRite has never been more than "snake oil". <<sigh>> This, of
course, despite the tens of thousands of users who've reported through
the years that SpinRite has been the best investment they've ever
made. As my favorite Italian chef and friend says: "What a'ya gonna
do?"

So ... as I said ... if you read and understand what I've written, and
the simple, clear, logic behind everything, I invite you to make up
your own mind about John Navas ... and his claims.

_________________________________________________________________
Steve Gibson, Gibson Research Corporation < http://grc.com >
For latest ZoneAlarm 2.0.xx news:< http://grc.com/zonealarm.htm >
¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯

Paul Thomas

unread,
Feb 26, 2000, 3:00:00 AM2/26/00
to
On my PC, this RASPPPOE protocol works well except that certain web pages
experience several seconds of lag before they load and some never load
completely (eg www.imdb.com). Anybody else getting this?

Paul

<ken> wrote in message news:vhcgbssck6snecvf3...@4ax.com...


> I have been using the NTS 300 eval of 1.3 with win2k server but I
> reloaded Win2k server on my machine yesterday and thougt I would try
> this new protocal a friend using Bellsouth told me about. He heard
> about it in the Bellsouth adsl newsgroup.
>
> Here is the link http://user.cs.tu-berlin.de/~normanb/
>
> Download the file and follow the detailed intructions in the included
> readme.htm file.
>

> KEY THING is that you must enter mindspring.com in the dial window.
> The author says usually nothing is required and leave it blank, but

> Mindspring adsl in Atlanta requires this entry. Connects and auth's
> very fast. Speed is at least as good as NTS 300. Does not install a
> fake adapter...just adds a protocol. I use 10.10.1.10, 255.255.255.0

> and the mindspring dns number for my ehternet card IP setting. DON'T


> FORGET TO UNBIND NETBIOS OVER IP OR EVERYONE CAN SEE YOUR COMPUTER.
> See www.grc.com for details.
>

> Ken

John Navas

unread,
Feb 26, 2000, 3:00:00 AM2/26/00
to
[POSTED TO comp.dcom.xdsl]

ken <> [or was it Steve Gibson -- do I detect a troll here?] wrote:

>What you don't know is that John Navas used to work for a hard disk
>manufacturer twelve years ago ... and that he's had a serious personal

>hatred for me (due to my SpinRite product) ever since. ...

Here are the facts:

As I recall my first encounter with Steve Gibson was when I was managing
development for a principal disk technology manufacturer and he was
promoting an earlier version of SpinRite. At that time I had about 15
years of experience in disk technology. My sincere efforts to help Steve
correct some of the more serious errors in what he was saying proved to be
a complete waste of time. His subsequent "hard disks die!" campaign only
compounded the problem. He was spreading hysteria then (for his own
apparent gain), and he is doing it again now with Shields UP!

The assertion that "hard disk die!" was based on a claim that magnetic
patterns "weaken" over time, and that SpinRite could somehow "refresh"
them. If this were true, then IDE drives, which cannot be "refreshed,"
would be dying all over the place, not to mention all the old mainframe
drives that had already been running steadily for years. Furthermore, the
embedded magnetic servo (used in virtually all reasonably current disk
drives) can only be written at the factory. If it "weakened" then the
drive would fail permanently -- SpinRite could not possibly help. The
fact that IDE disks have not been failing all over the place due to
"weakening" and lack of "refreshing" by SpinRite is clear evidence that
the claims were false.

(Most problems with older MFM/RLL drives that SpinRite claimed to fix were
the result of drives not being properly low-level formatted at working
temperature on the actual controller in the end user's computer. This
problem was easily solved by using the standard low-level format in the
actual controller. That SpinRite could also correct the problem meant
nothing, since all it was doing was using the same controller.)

Worse, Steve encouraged people to use SpinRite to "recover" areas that had
been detected and marked as defective at the factory, a bad idea that
leads to more failures in the long run, since end user controllers are not
as sensitive as factory test equipment -- they are simply incapable of the
kind of thorough testing done at the factory. Then of course SpinRite
would be "needed" again to "fix" those failures, a self-fulfilling
prophecy.

As for the people that swear by SpinRite, there are lots of people that
believe in astrology, but that doesn't make it any more valid.

I suggest that those with a technical bent visit the SpinRite website and
see they can swallow such things as:

* "prevents mass storage systems from crashing" (nothing can do that)

* "sophisticated magnetodynamic physics models" (pseudo science)

* "weakest possible magnetic signals" (not real)

* "we doubt whether anyone but Steve and a handful of aliens would even
know what all this is" (no argument there)

* "Weak Bits" (no such thing)

* "gradual evolution of the drive's storage surfaces through physical and
magnetic stresses" (mumbo jumbo)

* "SpinRite is actually able to lower the amplification of the drive's
internal read-amplifier" (impossible, and after all this time Steve
apparently still does not know that data is recorded on magnetic disks
with flux reversals, not "amplitude")

* "mass storage systems need periodic preventive maintenance" (nonsense)

* "yeah, we know, Steve's a magician with his code" (how modest)

As for all the "exclusive" SpinRite features, many if not all of them are
anything but exclusive; for example, testing disk surfaces with worst-case
data patterns goes back many years before Steve ever thought of SpinRite.
SpinRite is 80% hype, 10% dangerous, and 10% real substance. Likewise
Shields UP! (See my assessment of Shields UP! and judge for yourself at
<http://navasgrp.home.att.net/tech/netbios.htm#ShieldsUp>.)

John Navas

unread,
Feb 26, 2000, 3:00:00 AM2/26/00
to
[POSTED TO comp.dcom.xdsl]
"Paul Thomas" <pth...@escapex.ca> wrote:

>On my PC, this RASPPPOE protocol works well except that certain web pages
>experience several seconds of lag before they load and some never load
>completely (eg www.imdb.com). Anybody else getting this?

You may need to lower your MTU to 1492.

Unknown

unread,
Feb 26, 2000, 3:00:00 AM2/26/00
to
On Sat, 26 Feb 2000 18:19:45 -0600, "Paul Thomas" <pth...@escapex.ca>
wrote:

>On my PC, this RASPPPOE protocol works well except that certain web pages
>experience several seconds of lag before they load and some never load
>completely (eg www.imdb.com). Anybody else getting this?
>

>Paul
>
Tried the web site mentioned above and yes there was 3 or 4 second
delay. However, I went thru 7 or 8 others in my favorites list and
they came up quite fast; at least as good as with NTS 300. Sites like
theStreet.com and Motly Fool come up almost instantly. Sorry can't
help.

ken

Unknown

unread,
Feb 26, 2000, 3:00:00 AM2/26/00
to
On Sat, 26 Feb 2000 17:32:56 -0800, John Navas
<spamf...@navasgrp.dublin.ca.us> wrote:

>[POSTED TO comp.dcom.xdsl]
>ken <> [or was it Steve Gibson -- do I detect a troll here?] wrote:
>
>>What you don't know is that John Navas used to work for a hard disk
>>manufacturer twelve years ago ... and that he's had a serious personal
>>hatred for me (due to my SpinRite product) ever since. ...
>

John, no troll, just me, Ken.
Read your rebuttal. Interesting.

Ken

Paul Thomas

unread,
Feb 26, 2000, 3:00:00 AM2/26/00
to
Thanks Ken,

But did www.imdb.com load completely for you? On mine, it loads everything
except a last gif file and the status bar just gets stuck and Internet
Explorer's globe just keeps spinning. I have tried the suggestions at the
Carrick site and used the "ping method" to determine the MTU size, but still
certain pages just refuse to finish loading. If it works for anybody else
(with RASPPPOE), at least I'll know that there's a solution. If not, I'll
just live with it.

Paul

<ken> wrote in message news:5u0hbsgos3kvebsgk...@4ax.com...

Bob Carrick

unread,
Feb 27, 2000, 3:00:00 AM2/27/00
to
See question 15, 17 and 18 on the main PPPoE page below my name.

--
Bob
http://www.carricksolutions.com/pppoe.htm
http://www.carricksolutions.com
For those who believe, no explanation is necessary...
For those who do not, none will suffice...
"Paul Thomas" <pth...@escapex.ca> wrote in message
news:k5_t4.1665$TU1....@news1.mts.net...


> On my PC, this RASPPPOE protocol works well except that certain web pages
> experience several seconds of lag before they load and some never load
> completely (eg www.imdb.com). Anybody else getting this?
>
> Paul
>

David Steuber

unread,
Feb 27, 2000, 3:00:00 AM2/27/00
to
John Navas <spamf...@navasgrp.dublin.ca.us> writes:

' Shields UP! (See my assessment of Shields UP! and judge for yourself at
' <http://navasgrp.home.att.net/tech/netbios.htm#ShieldsUp>.)

Interesting stuff. Unfortunately, my machine showed up in stealth
mode instead of closed. Either I set up IPChains wrong, or BA has
their own firewall setup.

I will be interested in seeing that sub-pixel font rendering. I
thought a pixel was the smallest possible PIXture ELement. Shows what
I know. I do know that many websites have made a grand effort at
sub-pixel fonts. Netscape on Linux just loves to render fonts small.

The port scanner was fun. I've never seen one go so slow. Steve
talks about a scanner taking hours to scan all 65,756 ports. I must
have done something wrong when I wrote a simple port scanner in Java.
It didn't take more than a few minutes to hit all the ports.

I liked the graphics though. I wonder if they were done with GIMP?
They had a script-foo look to them.

--
David Steuber | Hi! My name is David Steuber, and I am
NRA Member | a hoploholic.

http://www.packetphone.org/

Mollison's Bureaucracy Hypothesis:
If an idea can survive a bureaucratic review and be implemented
it wasn't worth doing.

Cory

unread,
Feb 27, 2000, 3:00:00 AM2/27/00
to
In article <Bgau4.1693$A93....@typhoon1.gnilink.net>, <wcb...@bellatlantic.net> says...

>
> "Paul Thomas" <pth...@escapex.ca> wrote in message

> news:oH0u4.1682$TU1....@news1.mts.net...


> > Thanks Ken,
> >
> > But did www.imdb.com load completely for you? On mine, it loads
> everything
> > except a last gif file and the status bar just gets stuck and Internet
> > Explorer's globe just keeps spinning. I have tried the suggestions at the
> > Carrick site and used the "ping method" to determine the MTU size, but
> still
> > certain pages just refuse to finish loading. If it works for anybody else
> > (with RASPPPOE), at least I'll know that there's a solution. If not, I'll
> > just live with it.
> >
>

> I just tried www.imdb.com. Loads completely in about two secomds. And I
> use Rasppoe.
>
> However, I had the same problems as you with Raspppoe--until I replaced RC2
> with the final release of Win2K. Identical results with Professional,
> Server, and Advanced Server. Is this your problem?
>
> Also, with the pre-release versions, when connecting the modem to a hub with
> several workstations (with no local DHCP server), Raspppoe would lose its
> assigned public address after a few minutes of connection, and revert to a
> windows "IpAutoConfiguration" private address--naturally losing internet
> connectivity as a result. No such problem with the final Win2K.
>
> --wcb
>
>

I have been experiencing some of the same problems under Win2k Adv Server
RC-2, although I have a new issue. I am using Mindspring's DSL service and
for some reason, I am unable to send mail through Mindspring's SMTP server;
the odd part is I can send mail to certain servers, but not all. I also have
specific web sites that I can not access, such as ESPN.com and hp.com. When
pinging HP's site, the request timed out four times, but when pinging ESPN, 4
packets were sent and 4 were received. I am using the RASPPPoE protocol
mentioned above and I'm not sure if there is a setting I have overlooked, or
whether this is just a bug in Win2k beta. Is the PPPoE protocol supposed to
show up in the new dial-up connection made for the DSL connection? The only
connection it shows in is the Local Area Connection. I know the dial-up
connection is using the network adapter, but the only protocol that is
checked is TCP/IP; the PPPoE protocol doesn't even show up in the properties.

I'd appreciate any ideas anyone may have.

Cory

---
Posted from DSLreports.com .. availability,prices,reviews,forums!
visit us today ----------------------- http://www.DSLreports.com
Report inappropriate use to usenet...@dslreports.com


Unknown

unread,
Feb 27, 2000, 3:00:00 AM2/27/00
to

>Thanks. I now understand that you were quoting a post by Steve Gibson on
>his own newsserver (not Usenet).
>
>p.s. I sincerely mean no offense, but posting that article here is both
>contrary to 'netiquette and a likely infringement of copyright -- see "10
>Big Myths about copyright explained"
><http://www.templetons.com/brad/copymyths.html>. (I would have sent you
>this by private email, but you are posting without an email address.)

oops

no offense taken

Ken


wcb

unread,
Feb 27, 2000, 3:00:00 AM2/27/00
to

"Cory" <cdeppen@-NOSPAM-mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:38b98...@nntp2.nac.net...

> In article <Bgau4.1693$A93....@typhoon1.gnilink.net>,
<wcb...@bellatlantic.net> says...
>
Not necessarily a bug in RC2, but Raspppoe was not written to run on RC2.
It will not work correctly on RC2. Inability to connect to some web sites,
very slow loading on some sites, one or more objects on a page that never
load--without a timeout. These characterize Raspppoe and RC2.

No, Raspppoe does not show as a possible binding in the dial-up connection.
The Raspppoe dial-up connection should show a telephone icon, and the
"connect using. . ." window should show the adapter that connects to (or is)
your modem, along with "[GENERIC#]"

You will need to use something like Enternet 300, or acquire a final
realease copy of Win2KAS for megabucks.

--wcb

John Navas

unread,
Feb 27, 2000, 3:00:00 AM2/27/00
to
[POSTED TO comp.dcom.xdsl]
earle robinson <ero...@attglobal.net> wrote:

>John Navas wrote:
>
>> [POSTED TO comp.dcom.xdsl]
>> earle robinson <ero...@attglobal.net> wrote:
>>
>> >Your reply was an attempt to get me fired. ...
>>
>> False.

>Well, you sent me an email at the time saying that was your intention.

Likewise false. What I actually sent you was a couple of factual
responses to your rebuttal.

John Navas

unread,
Feb 27, 2000, 3:00:00 AM2/27/00
to
[POSTED TO comp.dcom.xdsl]
"M892" <m8...@mycrotch.bag> wrote:

>Well it seems John Navas gets around. Not too long ago he was on the FIC
>newsgroup raising hell. Tried to sell some info to FIC who didnt bite. ...

I'm afraid you are mistaking me for Jim Navas. My name is John.

earle robinson

unread,
Feb 28, 2000, 3:00:00 AM2/28/00
to
Well, you sent me an email at the time saying that was your intention.

-er

John Navas wrote:

> [POSTED TO comp.dcom.xdsl]
> earle robinson <ero...@attglobal.net> wrote:
>
> >Your reply was an attempt to get me fired. ...
>
> False.
>

M892

unread,
Feb 28, 2000, 3:00:00 AM2/28/00
to
Well it seems John Navas gets around. Not too long ago he was on the FIC
newsgroup raising hell. Tried to sell some info to FIC who didnt bite. Then
gave abunch of people a hard time for posting info he supposedly copywrited.
Eventually it got so bad I stopped reading the group. But a loose
confederation of hecklers eventualy routed him, or so I was told. He was the
self appointed expert on Sok7 MoBo's

M892

unread,
Feb 28, 2000, 3:00:00 AM2/28/00
to
Same story over there, I'm not Jim I'm John.......I'm not John I'm Jim. Are
you the same person ? Or are you related? If I besmmerched the wrong person
I appologize. Also apps for the email address forgot to change it before
posting, helps keep the SPAM down.

Gary Stein

unread,
Feb 28, 2000, 3:00:00 AM2/28/00
to
Kids take it of line this is not of much interest to anyone but
yourselves, and most certainly has nothing to do with DSL.
--
Gary Stein
ges...@bellatlantic.net

"John Navas" <spamf...@navasgrp.dublin.ca.us> wrote in message
news:b70kbs02qjbntbbes...@4ax.com...


> [POSTED TO comp.dcom.xdsl]
> earle robinson <ero...@attglobal.net> wrote:
>
> >John Navas wrote:
> >
> >> [POSTED TO comp.dcom.xdsl]
> >> earle robinson <ero...@attglobal.net> wrote:
> >>
> >> >Your reply was an attempt to get me fired. ...
> >>
> >> False.
>

> >Well, you sent me an email at the time saying that was your
intention.
>

> Likewise false. What I actually sent you was a couple of factual
> responses to your rebuttal.
>

ernie_ballz

unread,
Feb 29, 2000, 3:00:00 AM2/29/00
to
This sounds like the same protocol DSLreports.com has mentioned
in the news section on the bottom of the front page. Maybe I'm wrong
cause im on a bridged connection, and wouldnt know anything about
it.

bpd

unread,
Mar 4, 2000, 3:00:00 AM3/4/00
to
well its actually kinda funny. I wonder if I'll end up like John/Jim Navas
if I don't get any sex for years on end.

bpd

"Gary Stein" <ges...@starpower.net> wrote in message
news:89d9br$642$1...@bob.news.rcn.net...

Reply all
Reply to author
Forward
0 new messages