Upgrade from DSL to U-verse [Telecom]
Steven
U-Verse on my line. This was after they took the order and told me it
would work. I questioned them on it since they would still be using the
last 3000 feet of cable that is a mess of bad splices and pairs. I had
a pretty good idea that they would be unable to install it. I have had
problems with my DSL over the last year. By the way, 4 techs worked over
8 hours trying to get it up. I guess I'll just have to live with what I
have until they get more people in the area that want U-verse and place
another Hub a couple of thousand feet closer or we get the long promised
rebuild. Cable is not an option.
--
The only good spammer is a dead one!! Have you hunted one down today?
(c) 2009 I Kill Spammers, Inc., A Rot in Hell. Co.
***** Moderator's Note *****
If you can't get cable, how about satellite or WiMax? From what you've
described, I get the impression that the best solution is "Anything
But" Verizon DSL.
Bill Horne
Moderator
Adam H. Kerman
>I just got the word from AT&T that they would not be able to install the
>U-Verse on my line. This was after they took the order and told me it
>would work. I questioned them on it since they would still be using the
>last 3000 feet of cable that is a mess of bad splices and pairs. . . .
3000 feet of copper that's required replacement for how many years now?
I had no idea that the VLAD (the alien landing platform) could be that far
from the subscriber's premises. Considering how ubiquitous these boxes are
in communities in which AT&T is selling U-verse, I figured the subscriber
had to be within 1/4 mile or no more than 1500 feet.
Steven
> **** Moderator's Note *****
>
> If you can't get cable, how about satellite or WiMax? From what you've
> described, I get the impression that the best solution is "Anything
> But" Verizon DSL.
I can get cable, but the cable they use is also 30 years old. [They
have] Fiber [available], but it is also over 3000 feet away, and [it's
provided by] Charter, which is a pain to deal with.
We are served by at&t, not Verizon. The Verizon in the area is all
FiOS, and is new build; being a retired GTE employee, if I lived in
Verizon's service area, I could get Verizon for about 30% less then
they charge non-employee subscribers. I have both at&t Wifi through
the city, but get the higher speed and also have a MiFi from Sprint;
satellite is slower even with the problems with DSL. I have been told
that they are now monitoring the Network Router I'm on and if in fact
there are a lot of large users on it they will either move some of
them off or move me, that itself will clear the problem so I get at
least 4500 Mh.
- -
The only good spammer is a dead one!! Have you hunted one down today?
(c) 2009 I Kill Spammers, Inc., A Rot in Hell. Co.
***** Moderator's Note *****
What's "MiFi"?
Bill Horne
Steven
> Moderator wrote:
> ***** Moderator's Note *****
>
> What's "MiFi"?
>
> Bill Horne
handle 7 computers. Verizon also has one, [which] requires a data
plan, [and] it works pretty good. I bought it a few months ago; I was
working on a Switch for Sprint and one of the techs had one. Since
the company I work for is the primary contractor for them I got a
pretty good deal: right now 4G is limited to a few large cities, [and]
they plan on a nationwide roll out late next year. They have partners
around the US and Canada.
--
Steven
nearest U-verse. I contacted the administrative offices and am waiting
for an answer. I was told that they would install another Hub when more
people in the area request U-verse, I told them that 9 people plus me
want it, that did get their attention, but it takes 6 months to get one
in place, they have to run at least a 1/4 mile of fiber and replace some
of the copper, they also need the city permits. They are now looking at
all the splices since they keep finding Bridge Taps which makes DSL suck.
David
news:hgjqfn$us9$2...@news.albasani.net...
> Steven <diesp...@killspammers.com> wrote:
>
I have Uverse over a 4200 foot loop from the VRAD (node) to the demark
on 30 year old copper. The copper is mostly underground except for a
section of about 250 feet. They had to cut off a few bridge taps but
has been working quite well for close to two years now. The line runs
at about 25 Mb/s down and about 2 Mb/s up. This supports my low end
Internet access subscription at 1.5 Mb/s up and down plus 2 HD and 2
SD TV channels simultaneously. I would have never thought this bit
rate was possible over old copper of that length but I think I am at
the outer limits of what can be done.
David
Fred Atkinson
Steven <diespamm...@killspammers.com> wrote:
> I just got the word from AT&T that they would not be able to install
> the U-Verse on my line. This was after they took the order and told
> me it would work. I questioned them on it since they would still be
> using the last 3000 feet of cable that is a mess of bad splices and
> pairs. I had a pretty good idea that they would be unable to
> install it. I have had problems with my DSL over the last year. By
> the way, 4 techs worked over 8 hours trying to get it up. I guess
> I'll just have to live with what I have until they get more people
> in the area that want U-verse and place another Hub a couple of
> thousand feet closer or we get the long promised rebuild. Cable is
> not an option.
Steve,
This is typical of the phone company. They promise it to you and
then they have no remorse on telling you they were wrong. Nothing new
here.
You can only be sure of something when they actually install it.
When we moved to Columbia, South Carolina, into a newly developed
neighborhood [with only a small complement of houses built and occupied
as yet], we ordered a private line.
When the installer showed up, they told us it was going to be a four
party line (this was in the early seventies). I protested. But he said
there weren't enough pairs in the neighborhood and this was the best
they could do. We were 'promised' that we'd have a private line within
three months.
About eight months later, we realized that we were still on the four
party line. We called and complained to the business office. They
still couldn't give us a private line. But they said they could take us
off the four party line and put us on the two party line. So they did.
I wish I could remember the time frame. But it was quite a while
after that before they finally put more pairs in the neighborhood and we
finally got our private line.
It seems a bit silly that a newly developed neighborhood [that is
now enormous] wouldn't have enough pairs to support the development that
is projected to take place.
Regards,
Fred
Steven
problems with the 6MB DSL. The cable is a mix of lead, 24/26 gage and
goes all over the place. My guess is that there are still Bridge Taps
all over the place. I watched the tich try to turn it up vial his Lap
Top and it would not even try to start. A subscriber migh question
this, but I install the Switches so I know the problems. A block over
they can get it since the cable is about 1600 feet qand a bit newer.
I think I might have gotten them moving, the tech who tried to get it
up stopped by and told me they are now checking the condition of the
cable.
Last year they did a conditioning on the cable for U-verse and that is
when all the problems started, not they are going back over what was
done. When my DSL takes a dump I just switch my Mac's Airport over to
my Sprint MiFi (Mini Wifi) 4G Hub, gets about 4.5 down. Good thing I
opted for unlimited Data.
tlvp
<diesp...@killspammers.com> wrote, Moderator wrote:
> ***** Moderator's Note *****
>
> What's "MiFi"?
>
> Bill Horne
It's Sprint's or Verizon's little fat-credit-card-sized, high-speed cellular
data-modem plus wi-fi router, made by Novatel.
cf. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MiFi , which summarizes:
"... a device backconnecting to the cellular 3G network and frontconnecting to
local (up to 10m/30ft distance) Wi-Fi devices ..."
Novatel reportedly has (or will soon have) a GSM/EDGE/UMTS/HSPA version out,
too. I long for such a beasty, unlocked of course, for use with prepaid data
SIMs while traveling.
Cheers, -- tlvp
--
Avant de repondre, jeter la poubelle, SVP
Steven
Having worked for GTE for 30 years I have seen it all. When we first
moved in here in 1977 we were on a 2 party line, because I worked for
the phone company they never put anyone else on my line; within about 6
months they got the cable in place.
We had a major problem in Moreno Valley; (1979), a contractor built
100 units of housing and never contacted GTE or the cable company
about the tract; you can guess what happened. GTE placed cables in
place after the developer dug the streets up, but the Cable company
said no way, and to this day there is no cable in that tract, but that
was one of the first FIOS system to be deployed and everyone there
signed up for it.
Steven
When there is 4G it finds that.
--
wes...@aol.com
In a message dated 12/20/2009 11:26:29 AM Central Standard Time,
fatk...@mishmash.com writes:
> It seems a bit silly that a newly developed neighborhood [that is
> now enormous] wouldn't have enough pairs to support the development
> that is projected to take place.
You would be surprised to know how many developments proposed by a
developer never come to pass, and how many never reach their projected
size. The Telco's forecasters try mightly to make a good judgment as
to this because they would like to engineer enough facilities for what
will actually be built and sold, but sometimes they miss.
If they build too much, there will be a large and expensive plant
lying fallow in the ground and not earning.
Wes Leatherock
wes...@aol.com
wlea...@yahoo.com
***** Moderator's Note *****
But if they build too little, potential customers turn to the
competition, and then they're likely to stay away forever.
Bill Horne
Moderator
Bill Horne
> When we moved to Columbia, South Carolina, into a newly developed
> neighborhood [with only a small complement of houses built and occupied
> as yet], we ordered a private line.
>
> When the installer showed up, they told us it was going to be a four
> party line (this was in the early seventies). I protested. But he said
> there weren't enough pairs in the neighborhood and this was the best
> they could do. We were 'promised' that we'd have a private line within
> three months.
>
> About eight months later, we realized that we were still on the four
> party line. We called and complained to the business office. They
> still couldn't give us a private line. But they said they could take us
> off the four party line and put us on the two party line. So they did.
>
> I wish I could remember the time frame. But it was quite a while
> after that before they finally put more pairs in the neighborhood and we
> finally got our private line.
>
> It seems a bit silly that a newly developed neighborhood [that is
> now enormous] wouldn't have enough pairs to support the development that
> is projected to take place.
In the 1950's, my father moved us into a new house in a Boston suburb
called Dedham. The once-sleepy farm hamlet - the home of millionairess
Katherine Endicott - was overwhelmed by baby-boomer families that
swamped it's manual telephone exchange and open-wire infrastructure,
as the farmers sold out to developers and quarter-acre lots became the
norm.
When my dad went in to order a phone, he told the sales clerk that he
wanted a private line. The sales clerk said that he could only have an
eight-party line and that he'd have to wait for ten months or more to
get it.
My father, a former Marine who'd been shot on Guadalcanal, wasn't one
to shrink from a fight, but he had also grown up in the Roxbury
section of Boston, a place that by all accounts made New York's Hell's
Kitchen seem like an Indian Ashram, and he had a _very_ low tolerance
for arrogant bureaucrats. He asked the clerk if he could use her phone
to make a call, and then informed her that he would call her back from
his home the next day. The woman laughed in his face.
The next night, a man in a suit knocked on the door of our house, and
told my father that there were two cable crews busy stringing new
telephone cables from the junction point at Endicott circle, about two
miles away. He said they could not be finished before 9 PM, and
apologized for the delay. My dad told the man that he appreciated his
hard work, and that 9 PM would be acceptable.
There's no mystery as to how my dad accomplished this miracle: my
mother's father, you see, was the State Respresentative for Roxbury,
and the Chairman of the Massachusetts State House of Representatives'
Committee on Public Utility Regulation.
It took Ma Bell a few decades, but eventually she had an attack of
common sense, and realized that the revenue she was losing by _not_
having people connected to the network far outstripped any savings
that could be obtained by forcing customers to wait ten months for
8-party lines. When I was an employee of that same company, I found
out that there were Engineering staff members who spent their days
scanning newspapers and trade magazines and building-permit reports so
as to have adequate cable or carrier ready and installed the day each
new development opened.
Of course, the old attitudes didn't die as fast as we might wish: more
than twenty years later, when Congressman Barney Frank's staff called
in to order some extra lines in preparation for his upcoming campaign
against a heavyweight contender named Marjorie Claprood, Ma Bell's old
attitudes once again appeared. Representative Frank's staff was told
that there were no lines available.
The next day, a courier deposited a large box on the central office
steps, which I was called upon to sign for. It contained a device
called an "AML-8", which was an analog multiplexing device that could
use two pairs of wire to support 8 phone lines (Yes, it's the same
idea as "N" carrier).
The device was strapped to the horizontal frame supports, and an
extension cord was run over the lights and down the frame stanchions
to power it. It was connected to eight dial tones (The CO Tech was
given the line equipment numbers in a hand-written note), and to two
cable pairs (which had been in use for two pay telephones in the
building that housed the Congressman's office). From the time I opened
the box until the Congressman's staff had eight new lines available,
it took about three hours.
There is a moral to these stories: if you want Ma Bell to do something
she doesn't feel like doing, all you need to do is find a way to
remind her that she is only a big fish while in her little pond. The
fastest way is to toss in a few sharks, but there are others.
Bill Horne
(Speaking for myself)
(Filter QRM from my address for direct replies)
Steven
> Bill Horne
> Moderator
In 2000 and 2001, Pacific Bell, U.S. West and Verizon were installing
DSL as fast as they could, [and] they are now starting to use those,
[but] now they are pushing U-Verse and FIOS, only this time the
companies are only putting more units in as they sell the [existing]
ones. We are putting [in] frames and power, but that is all. The
same thing appears to be what is happening with upgrades in outside
plant and [Fiber?] Nodes.
Sam Spade
>
> In 2000 and 2001, Pacific Bell, U.S. West and Verizon were installing
> DSL as fast as they could, [and] they are now starting to use those,
> [but] now they are pushing U-Verse and FIOS, only this time the
> companies are only putting more units in as they sell the [existing]
> ones. We are putting [in] frames and power, but that is all. The
> same thing appears to be what is happening with upgrades in outside
> plant and [Fiber?] Nodes.
>
AT&T in California is cherry picking their installation of U-Verse. We
live in an old neighborhood so I doubt we will ever see them in this
part of town. OTOH, the local cable company (Cox) spent the bucks to
bring fiber into every neighborhood in town.
Steven
bad, we have wind today and nothing but noise on the line.
I got a call from AT&T with the company line, I guess they forgot to
tell the person who called me that I have over 40 years of telephone
experience.
I talked to the PUC yesterday and follwed it up with a Formal written
complaint today. It is not just the U-verse; it is also problems with
DSL as well a voice. I also contacted the city because I believe they
have a franchise agreement. All they have to do is replace about 900
feet of old lead cable and make sure that there are no more bridge
taps; for you that do not know what a bridge tap is, it is a splice
where the cable goes in two directions, so that it can be used at 2
points.
Sam Spade
>
> I talked to the PUC yesterday and follwed it up with a Formal written
> complaint today. It is not just the U-verse; it is also problems with
> DSL as well a voice. I also contacted the city because I believe they
> have a franchise agreement. All they have to do is replace about 900
> feet of old lead cable and make sure that there are no more bridge
> taps; for you that do not know what a bridge tap is, it is a splice
> where the cable goes in two directions, so that it can be used at 2
> points.
>
I suspect you filed an written informal complaint. ;-)
A formal complaint is a legal pleading, has to conform the PUCs rules
of procedure and practice, and must allege, among other things, that
an informal complaint was first filed. I've done a few formal
complaints. They can be done without an attorney but you have to know
how to walk through the minefield.
Scott Dorsey
> I got a call from AT&T with the company line, I guess they forgot to
> tell the person who called me that I have over 40 years of telephone
> experience.
> I talked to the PUC yesterday and follwed it up with a Formal
> written complaint today. It is not just the U-verse; it is also
> problems with DSL as well a voice. I also contacted the city because
> I believe they have a franchise agreement. All they have to do is
> replace about 900 feet of old lead cable and make sure that there
> are no more bridge taps; for you that do not know what a bridge tap
> is, it is a splice where the cable goes in two directions, so that
> it can be used at 2 points.
DSL is not a tariffed service. I believe the U-Verse is also not a
tariffed service, which is part of why it is being pushed so
aggressively.
Because these are not tariffed services, the PUC basically has no
control over the telco. And if their contract is anything like the
contract Verizon uses, you basically signed away all your rights to
complain about anything when you purchased the service.
So, basically, it doesn't work, and the telco has no motivation to
make it work. Welcome to the New Telecom Era.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
Sam Spade
> DSL is not a tariffed service. I believe the U-Verse is also not a
> tariffed service, which is part of why it is being pushed so
> aggressively.
> Because these are not tariffed services, the PUC basically has no
> control over the telco. And if their contract is anything like the
> contract Verizon uses, you basically signed away all your rights to
> complain about anything when you purchased the service.
Well, the fact such services aren't tariffed means the CPUC has no
jurisdiction over their rates. But, even on tariffed services an
individual cannot file a complaint about rates in any case. (takes a
minimum of 25 subscribers or a governmental entity.)
But, AT&T operates within California because of a franchise granted by
the CPUC. So, will they entertain a service complaint on a
non-tariffed offering. It depends; they very well may on DSL and any
component of U-Verse not regulated by a municipality.
This "it depends" minefield can only be navigated by legal counsel
expert in public utility matters, thus the individual has no effective
recourse even though he may technically have legal recourse.
Steven
Well the problem I'm having with the DSL is directly related to the
condition of the cable from their cross connect box. It is over 30
years old and has all kinds of problems because of bad splices and
other problems, like leaks; the cable is regulated and the voice
service for my regular telephone has suffered with noise. AT&T has a
Franchise agreement with the city and if the PUC can't do anything
then the city should be able to since they agreed to supply the
service to the whole city.
I'm well aware of how the communications business has changed; I have
spent more then 40 years in it, 30 with GTE.
Sam Spade
> Well the problem I'm having with the DSL is directly related to the
> condition of the cable from their cross connect box. It is over 30
> years old and has all kinds of problems because of bad splices and
> other problems, like leaks; the cable is regulated and the voice
> service for my regular telephone has suffered with noise. AT&T has
> a Franchise agreement with the city and if the PUC can't do anything
> then the city should be able to since they agreed to supply the
> service to the whole city. I'm well aware of how the communications
> business has changed; I have spent more then 40 years in it, 30 with
> GTE.
The telephone voice is fully regulated prior to the demarc. With this
fancy set up, can you still isolate the telephone service at a NID to
prove the problem is on their side?
Scott Dorsey
> Well the problem I'm having with the DSL is directly related to the
> condition of the cable from their cross connect box. It is over 30
> years old and has all kinds of problems because of bad splices and
> other problems, like leaks; the cable is regulated and the voice
> service for my regular telephone has suffered with noise. AT&T has
> a Franchise agreement with the city and if the PUC can't do anything
> then the city should be able to since they agreed to supply the
> service to the whole city.
AHA! THAT is different. Time to call the mayor.
Steven
and their cross connect that goes to the main (CO Cable).
I must have gotten someones attention: I got a call from Texas today as
well as a call from the Manager of CORE (DSL). He looked at the 15
trouble tickets and also had the cable checked and found 4 more bridge
taps. He also agrees with me that the reason for U-verse was to get
around the distance problems with DSL. Once they are able to fix the
cable, things should work: if my DSL comes back to what it is rated at
I might not even go to U-Verse. All the cable in my house is CAT 4
and checks out fine. Besides when I first started having problems I
got the cable plan, they replaced a couple of my in house cables using
my Cat 5 cable. I was told that both the PUC as well as the city have
some control over AT&T. Maybe they can get the cable replaced. The
Core Manager is trying to get his engineer to go Fiber to the curb or
house since our cables are so bad and have been for some years. It
all goes back to the U-verse cable conditioning that was done last
year, before that there was no problem with my DSL.
Steven
has been in several offices for over 25 years.