Busying Out Ground Start Lines
Dave Haber
concensus was that a dead short worked just fine and caused no technical
problem for or hassle from the phone company.
That's fine for a loop start line, but what about us guys who have
switches and ground start lines? I would assume, to hold a ground start
line busy with a short, that you would also have to ground the short, or
else the line would just ring trip everytime someone called it. Will
this perpetual ground on both sides of the line cause problems for the
phone company technically? Will they get alarms in the CO that would
make them want to come out and "fix" my lines?
My boss wants me to busy out 10 lines of a 25 line group this week for a
projected 90 days...
Thanks!
Dave Haber
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frsni00...@frsni08.frsn5555.pacbell.com
Much Del..
> I would assume, to hold a ground start
> line busy with a short, that you would also have to ground the short, or
> else the line would just ring trip everytime someone called it. Will
> this perpetual ground on both sides of the line cause problems for the
> phone company technically?
This will not cause any trouble with 5ess, Northern, or Stromberg
,1a,2B..And yes you need to ground the ring side..
Will they get alarms in the CO
NO
that would make them want to come out and "fix" my lines?
>
This could happen in some area's when they see a large number
of lines out of service in your group. Some companys dump
out of service list daily to head off trouble before the coustomer
call in the trouble. tony L
> Thanks!
>
> Dave Haber
>
Floyd Davidson
>A piece of wire is not FCC part 68 approved (can't find the FCC
>reg number), thus this is a no no. But on Ground Start trunks you
>can just put a ground on the ring side of the line (not legal).
You have misunderstood what FCC "approved" means. It is not required
to legally use a part or piece of equipment. It IS required if you
want to manufacture and _sell_ something.
Even non-approved wire is legal to use.
Floyd
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Salcha, Alaska system at the University of Alaska at Fairbanks.
John Higdon
>A piece of wire is not FCC part 68 approved (can't find the FCC reg number), thus this is a no no.
>But on Ground Start trunks you can just put a ground on the ring side of the line (not legal).
I have busied out lines and trunks, both loop and ground start, with
pieces of wire for about forty years. I have yet to receive ONE SINGLE
complaint from any telco anywhere. Some of the shorts have been up for
years at a time.
As far as it being illegal, somehow I have excaped the justice system
in this regard. I suspect anyone else would have as little to fear.
Bottom line: if you need to busy out a phone line short the tip and
ring together with a piece of wire. Forget about a resistor. If it is a
ground start circuit, be sure to ground the shorted pair as well. Trust
me: it is safe and effective.
Theorize all you like. Forty years of experience says it works.
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Sheldon Kociol
>I have busied out lines and trunks, both loop and ground start, with
>pieces of wire for about forty years. I have yet to receive ONE SINGLE
>complaint from any telco anywhere. Some of the shorts have been up for
>years at a time.
Why pay for a circuit that you will busy out for years at a time?
>As far as it being illegal, somehow I have excaped the justice system
>in this regard. I suspect anyone else would have as little to fear.
Good for you.
>Bottom line: if you need to busy out a phone line short the tip and
>ring together with a piece of wire. Forget about a resistor. If it is a
>ground start circuit, be sure to ground the shorted pair as well. Trust
>me: it is safe and effective. ^^^^^
^^
It is not neccessary to short tip and ring on ground start trunks. The CO
will recognize ring ground as a valid seizure, just like the PBX must
recognize the tip grounded as network busy.
John, no flame intended, but being that I get paid to know telephony and
EIA, I try to follow regulations.
Eric Bohlman
: You have misunderstood what FCC "approved" means. It is not required
: to legally use a part or piece of equipment. It IS required if you
: want to manufacture and _sell_ something.
My understanding was that if a piece of equipment wasn't FCC registered
(not "approved"), it was up to the LEC as to whether or not you could use
it, whereas registration meant that the LEC had to allow it, assuming it
was consistent with your service.
Floyd Davidson
The LEC can only disallow it on the basis of it doing something
that is specifically not allowed by tariff. High levels, certain
tones, DC voltages, or unbalancing the line are examples. The LEC
can disallow an FCC registered device just as well as something I
might cobble up in the back room.
FCC registration is required to market a product. Actually it is
the telephone line interface that must be registered, not the
device itself; and it's common to purchase an already approved
interface to use as part of a product, thereby avoiding the
expensive testing proceedures and allowing product changes without
requiring re-testing.
C.A. Peskin
idea to busy out a line by shorting tip and ring for the reason that the
5ESS WILL detect it as a short, not a receiver off hook. 5ESS will then
run frequent tests on the line durring off hours. The teleco is aware
of lines which are shorted, and may disconnect the battery from the
line, (often in the case of "high and wet" lines) and you will have to
call them to get it reconnected.
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| Rochester Institute of Technology Chris A. Peskin |
| Electrical Engineering |
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ssatchell on BIX
There are companies that sell packaged Data Access Arrangments (DAAs) which
are indeed registered with the FCC. These modules let you have access o
the network with some assurance that you won't cause harm to the network.
Cermetek used to market these modules, along with some others.
David Lesher
> I am currently working for Rochester Telephone. It is not a GOOD
>idea to busy out a line by shorting tip and ring for the reason that the
>5ESS WILL detect it as a short, not a receiver off hook.
Please advise how the switch can tell the absense or presence
of 300 ohms across Tip & Ring; when there is already maybe ten
times that about in outside plant......
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aaleona...@frsni08.frsn5555.pacbell.com
> > I am currently working for Rochester Telephone. It is not a GOOD
> >idea to busy out a line by shorting tip and ring for the reason that the
> >5ESS WILL detect it as a short, not a receiver off hook.
>
> Please advise how the switch can tell the absense or presence
> of 300 ohms across Tip & Ring; when there is already maybe ten
> times that about in outside plant......
>
The 5E is a smart switch! Yes realy when a line is first but
in the switch a program is run to set the correct network on
the line [600/900/etc ohm] this is also run several time a week
to check for changes. That how it knows the diff. Don't
want to go into more detail [proprietary & copyright] will
not allow me this.
{small}
fyi:the average 5e has 20+ 68xxx processors and controllers
running unix/c and has indipendant processing, also uses the
principal of time division mutiplexing for fiber conductivity
and time slot sharing.
tony L 5ESS Maintenance Engineer and Tech.Support
wa6qmq / /
/ SOMETIMES THE DRAGON WINS /
/ /
Duane Joseph Cady
>Floyd Davidson (fl...@hayes.ims.alaska.edu) wrote:
Again an LEC employee is overestimating their own self-worth.
Floyd Davidson
> I am currently working for Rochester Telephone. It is not a GOOD
>idea to busy out a line by shorting tip and ring for the reason that the
>5ESS WILL detect it as a short, not a receiver off hook. 5ESS will then
There is no difference, to the switch, between a short and an off hook.
Consider that if one line has 1000 feet of cable, and another has
10,000 feet of cable, that the second could be shorted and have
a higher resistance appear to the switch than the first line would
if it were just offhook.
>run frequent tests on the line durring off hours. The teleco is aware
>of lines which are shorted, and may disconnect the battery from the
>line, (often in the case of "high and wet" lines) and you will have to
>call them to get it reconnected.
It could happen, but is very unlikely. The switch runs an audit
program in the background when nothing else is happening and detects
these offhook too long lines, and also onhook for a previously
locked out line. Hence the usual thing is that when the phone is
put back onhook it becomes operative shortly thereafter with no
manual intervention required.
The most significant thing about deciding if it is ok to just
short out a line to busy it, is just asking what does the telco
do in the same situation?
They short the line.
John Higdon
>Why pay for a circuit that you will busy out for years at a time?
That should be obvious. Sometimes one is required to buy blocks of
lines which cannot all be utilized. More frequently, there are
temporary reconfigurations that require less lines to be utilized and
the anticipated re-installation charges would be more than just paying
the bill every month. Indeed, there are some types of service that
pencil out at around two years worth of inactivity as compared to
re-installation.
>It is not neccessary to short tip and ring on ground start trunks. The CO
>will recognize ring ground as a valid seizure, just like the PBX must
>recognize the tip grounded as network busy.
It is much easier to ground both. No muss, no fuss--particularly if
telco suddenly converts it to a loop-start line by mistake.
>John, no flame intended, but being that I get paid to know telephony and
>EIA, I try to follow regulations.
I, too, get paid to know telephony (for the past thirty years, as a matter of
fact). Perhaps you can quote chapter and verse of the "regulations"
that I violate by shorting tip and ring to ground. Then I'll look them
up in my references. However, I probably won't stop doing it.