Western Electric 2500 dialing problems
drwh...@netzero.net
getting them to dial out properly. Two of the phones make the
appropriate tones when the buttons are pressed but no call goes through
and the dial tone remains on. The other phone makes the tones when the
buttons are pressed and does make the dial tone go off but 8 keys must
be pressed instead of 7, always resulting in a wrong number. I am very
familiar with Bell rotary phones but this is the first time I have
worked on the touch tone kind. I am aware that the telephone must be
connected to the line with the proper polarity before the dial will
make tones and I have checked this. Is there any other connection I
need to check or are the dials bad or is something else wrong?
Any help is GREATLY appreciated.
CI
Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/
Chris Ornellas
If the phones are not very old, polarity should not matter.
Does a different type of phone work on the same line properly?
<drwh...@netzero.net> wrote in message news:92gavh$vjl$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
Tony Pelliccio
says...
> Are the phones connected to a PBX or to POTS lines?
> If the phones are not very old, polarity should not matter.
> Does a different type of phone work on the same line properly?
Here's another problem for ya. I've got a 1972 vintage Princess phone
that produces these muted tones when I try to dial. This is with the
polarity reversed as well as the normal way.
I suspect I've got a bad component on the pad but don't know which. Any
place I can get a replacement TT pad that has the translucent buttons?
Tony
Brian Cox
contacts over time and cleaning them usually will fix the dial.
--
Brian Cox
J & J Communications
770-795-5462 or 888-552-6665
use mindspring in lieu of *** to reply
Tony Pelliccio <nofnspam...@nofknspam.home.com> wrote in message
news:MPG.14b5bf3fa...@24.0.240.30...
Ron Kritzman
>
> Is there any other connection I need to check or are the dials bad
> or is something else wrong?
Take out the dialpad, pull off the clear plastic and look in at the
assembly edgewise. On all 4 sides you'll see contacts, actuated by metal
rods which criss-cross through the thing. Clean the contacts, along with
the ones on the back of the dialpad. If the pad is cleanly generating both
tones for each number dialed, the frequency may be off. The large coils on
the back have ferrite cores which may be tuned. The holes in the tuning
slugs are triangular while your typical plastic tweaking tool is hex, so
you may have to get creative with an old junk tuning tool and a box knife.
--
Emoveray ethay igpay atinlay otay eplyray
RichC
inductor-capacitors.
If the dial has two large dark grey cylinders with wire wrapped inside you
may need
to retune the coils. But....... most don't have frequency counters to
perform this task.
You can get a tv tuning tool set at radio shack that has the plastic hex
tool needed.
Mark the position of the grey slugs with and extra fine point "sparpie"
marker.
turn one slug clockwise 1/10th of a turn and try dialling. If no good
return to the starting point
as marked and try the other coil. Repeat if needed going counterclockwise.
drwh...@netzero.net wrote in message <92gavh$vjl$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>...
me
at todays price of phones why bother? Trash them and buy some that
work.
bellte...@my-deja.com
Touch-tone dials generate two separate tones for
each single button pressed. Technically known as
DTMF (dual-tone multi-frequency), these tones
must consist of both frequencies and at the right
frequencies for dial tone to break and to be able
to correctly dial a number. The Western Electric
type 35 series touch tone pads (dials) used
molded powdered iron cores surrounding the two
coils (to make two different tones at the same
time). The later dials (type 72) used an IC chip
to generate the tones without using coils.
Sounds like in one case you may only be
generating one of the tones hence unable to break
dial tone. Try doing this:
Press the numbers 1 and 2 (or 1 and 3) at the
same time. You should get a single tone.
Now press the numbers 1 and 4 (or 1 and 7) at the
same time. You should still get a single tone
but of a different frequency than the one you got
by pressing 1 and 2.
Repeat this with all rows and all columns of
numbers (like 2 and 5 then 2 and 3; 5 and 6 then
5 and 8; etc.). At all times you should get a
single tone for any two horizontal or any two
vertical buttons pressed at the same time. If
not, you probably have dirty switch contacts for
that specific row or column.
See my web site on DTMF for more details:
http://www.navyrelics.com/tribute/touch_tone_info.
html
Good Luck!
David Massey - Webmaster of "Tribute to the
Telephone" and "A Memorial to the Bell System".
Long Live the Bell System!!!
bellte...@my-deja.com
me <m...@blueslvr.com> wrote:
> You know all the things I have read in this thread are good info BUT
> at todays price of phones why bother? Trash them and buy some that
> work.
You are obviously not a phone collector! Send any old Western Electric
phones to me - I can find good homes for them! All of my Bell System
phones I've collected since 1970 still work, but I've thrown away over
a dozen "modern" phones in the last few years!
Bob Vaughan
>at todays price of phones why bother? Trash them and buy some that
>work.
>
Because in many cases, it's better to repair/replace the dial on a genuine
Western Electric 2500 set, (which has probably lasted for years, and will
continue to do so after repair/refurbishment), than it is to buy a el-cheapo
phone that won't last last very long before it goes to the landfill..
they don't make them like they used to..
--
-- Welcome My Son, Welcome To The Machine --
Bob Vaughan | techie@{w6yx|tantivy}.stanford.edu | kc6...@w6yx.ampr.org
| P.O. Box 19792, Stanford, Ca 94309
-- I am Me, I am only Me, And no one else is Me, What could be simpler? --
Watson A.Name
I suspect that you may have a crack in one or both of the ferrite pot
cores that are the part that controls the freq along with some caps. If
so, you may be able to fix it by gluing it wit super glue. Or it could
be something as simple as the adjustments on these are loose. Phones
are subjected to a lot of mechanical abuse, so you may be able to fix it
by finding the mechanical problem.
I know that the www.phonecoinc.com guy has a lot of wpare parts, but I
dunno if for the Princess.
--
@@@@@T@h@e@@i@n@t@e@r@n@e@t@@w@a@s@@c@o@o@l@@u@n@t@i@l@@@@@
My email address is whitelisted. *All* email sent to it
goes directly to the trash unless I put your email address
on my 'accepted' list. alondra101 <at> hotmail.com
@@@@@e@v@e@r@y@o@n@e@@f@o@u@n@d@@o@u@t@@a@b@o@u@t@@i@t@@@@@
me
personally don't see anything collectable about a 2500 phone, there
are way to many of them out there. I have a couple in my closet that
I don't use any more so if someone wants to collect them make me an
offer.
Watson A.Name
This assumes that he has the tyoe 35 dial pad. If they're the type 72,
then I guess the only thing you coud do is check the crystal, to see if
it has been cracked and is off frequency.
Watson A.Name
>
> You know all the things I have read in this thread are good info BUT
> at todays price of phones why bother? Trash them and buy some that
> work.
Ome could say that. One could also say that to get a new phone that is
built as well as the 2500 set would cost you at least %50, maybe closer
to $100. In any case, if you fix a Bell 2500 set, it will last you a
lifetime. Sue the thing may beed a coil cord once in a while, but if's
worth it to ficx them. If you don't want to fix them you can buy a
rebuilt 2500 set from one of the web sites such as www.phonecoinc.com or
Mike Sandman's web site. I think they're around $75 or so depending on
condition, color, etc.
[snip]
Watson A.Name
>
> In article <jrsp4tcgkle2k6o9d...@4ax.com>,
> me <m...@blueslvr.com> wrote:
> >You know all the things I have read in this thread are good info BUT
> >at todays price of phones why bother? Trash them and buy some that
> >work.
> >
>
> Because in many cases, it's better to repair/replace the dial on a genuine
> Western Electric 2500 set, (which has probably lasted for years, and will
> continue to do so after repair/refurbishment), than it is to buy a el-cheapo
> phone that won't last last very long before it goes to the landfill..
>
> they don't make them like they used to..
I think ITT or one of the major phone makers still makes a set that
looks like the 2500 set, maybe a bit more plastic inside but still well
made. I've been given a Rat Shack look-alike, and I can tell you that
it isn't built as well as a true 2500 set. I also disassembled a Conair
look-alike and it was so cheap that they had to put a metal weight in
the handset to give it the 'feel' of a true bell handset, and without
the weight it feels like a fisher price toy. Actually that would be an
insult to fisher price!
So I think that instead of saying that they don't make them like they
used to, you should say they make most phones cheaply and if you want
one built to last like the old phones, you have to pay a lot more for
it.
> --
=-
David Lesher
>drwh...@netzero.net wrote:
>>
>> Is there any other connection I need to check or are the dials bad
>> or is something else wrong?
>Take out the dialpad, pull off the clear plastic and look in at the
>assembly edgewise. On all 4 sides you'll see contacts, actuated by metal
>rods which criss-cross through the thing. Clean the contacts, along with
>the ones on the back of the dialpad.
Do NOT file the contacts. They are plated with gold, I suspect.
Best tool for such is a business card. Insert, close the contact
with the button, and pull the card out.
--
A host is a host from coast to coast.................wb8foz@nrk.com
& no one will talk to a host that's close........[v].(301) 56-LINUX
Unless the host (that isn't close).........................pob 1433
is busy, hung or dead....................................20915-1433
David Lesher
Mash two buttons in a row, or a column. You should hear one solid
tone. Try all seven.
If you get tones for 2 of 3 columns/ 3 of 4 rows, chances are it's
contacts. If you get no tone for any, look at the toroid...maybe
the back contacts.
As for retuning, there is a simple way needing no special tools.
Call the suspect phone from another one. Mash the same tones on
both, and tune the repaired unit for zero beat.
David Lesher
>You know all the things I have read in this thread are good info BUT
>at todays price of phones why bother? Trash them and buy some that
>work.
Because the 2500's have a lifetime of about 25 years. The average garbage
phone has a lifetime of 25 days->25 weeks.
No real 2500 ever fell off the table while dialing, or ringing. And
if you kicked it off, it likely dented the floor when it hit.
Watson A.Name
>
> Also, to test...
>
> Mash two buttons in a row, or a column. You should hear one solid
> tone. Try all seven.
>
> If you get tones for 2 of 3 columns/ 3 of 4 rows, chances are it's
> contacts. If you get no tone for any, look at the toroid...maybe
> the back contacts.
>
> As for retuning, there is a simple way needing no special tools.
> Call the suspect phone from another one. Mash the same tones on
> both, and tune the repaired unit for zero beat.
I tried that the other day with two phones, one at each ear. I had a
hard time telling if the tones were the same. Actually what I was doing
was I had my sound card playing into an earphone on one ear, and the
telephone on the other ear. I used a 9V power supply and a 220 ohm
resistor in series with the phone to limit the current. The power
supply was regulated. If you use a wall wart, it will HUMMMMMMMM. To
get rid of the hum, you have to put another big capacitor across the
wall wart's output, after the 220 ohm resistor. Use at least 1000 uF.
> --
> A host is a host from coast to coast.................wb8foz@nrk.com
> & no one will talk to a host that's close........[v].(301) 56-LINUX
> Unless the host (that isn't close).........................pob 1433
> is busy, hung or dead....................................20915-1433
--
Watson A.Name
>
> me <m...@blueslvr.com> writes:
>
> >You know all the things I have read in this thread are good info BUT
> >at todays price of phones why bother? Trash them and buy some that
> >work.
>
> Because the 2500's have a lifetime of about 25 years. The average garbage
> phone has a lifetime of 25 days->25 weeks.
>
> No real 2500 ever fell off the table while dialing, or ringing. And
> if you kicked it off, it likely dented the floor when it hit.
Hee-haw! Ain't that the truth! It's too bad that the cheap phones
don't assert their presence so well!
> --
> A host is a host from coast to coast.................wb8foz@nrk.com
> & no one will talk to a host that's close........[v].(301) 56-LINUX
> Unless the host (that isn't close).........................pob 1433
> is busy, hung or dead....................................20915-1433
Watson A.Name
>
> You are right I am not a collector. I am an ex Bell employee and I
> personally don't see anything collectable about a 2500 phone, there
> are way to many of them out there. I have a couple in my closet that
> I don't use any more so if someone wants to collect them make me an
> offer.
The going rate at the swap meets seems to be five to ten for a decidedly
used set. More if it's clean and in good shape. But like everything
else prices are negotiable.
I got an old GTE AE rotary phone that was beige and it was filthy. I
took a paper towel and a bottle of isopropyl alcohol to the handset and
all the beige paint started to come off. Underneath, it was pink.
Problem is that the beige paint is still all over it, after a lot of
work. So now I have this old mostly pink but some beige handset on a
beige phone. Works okay, just looks like hell.
The absolutely, positively nicest thing about an old Bell set is that
they are so old that no one will steal them, especially if they're a
rotary dial set.
That, in itself is enough for a person to want to hang on to them!
> On Sat, 30 Dec 2000 02:53:16 GMT, bellte...@my-deja.com wrote:
>
> >In article <jrsp4tcgkle2k6o9d...@4ax.com>,
> > me <m...@blueslvr.com> wrote:
> >> You know all the things I have read in this thread are good info BUT
> >> at todays price of phones why bother? Trash them and buy some that
> >> work.
> >
> >You are obviously not a phone collector! Send any old Western Electric
> >phones to me - I can find good homes for them! All of my Bell System
> >phones I've collected since 1970 still work, but I've thrown away over
> >a dozen "modern" phones in the last few years!
GHTROUT
> me <m...@blueslvr.com> writes:
>
> >You know all the things I have read in this thread are good info BUT
> >at todays price of phones why bother? Trash them and buy some that
> >work.
>
>
> Because the 2500's have a lifetime of about 25 years. The average garbage
> phone has a lifetime of 25 days->25 weeks.
>
> No real 2500 ever fell off the table while dialing, or ringing. And
> if you kicked it off, it likely dented the floor when it hit.
>
25 years at what cost - I used to go around cleaning dial contacts, hs
contacts, replacing tt pads, xmitters and rcvrs, hardwired cords, etc.
The reason they lasted so long was the stream of rental, trip and repair
charge revenue. Now that you buy phones at any drug store there is no
point making anything but throw-away phones any more.
But, I know the point is that this person has a classic and he wants it
to work - and I won't argue that is worth the trouble.
Macy Hallock
+---------------
> I think ITT or one of the major phone makers still makes a set that
> looks like the 2500 set, maybe a bit more plastic inside but still well
> made.
The 2500 is far from dead, though many off the knockoff's are
less than faithful. Many are only similiar in appearance but
just cheap approximations internally. Most will not interchange
parts. You will seldom see a "real" 2500 in a retail consumer
store, though they are sometimes seen in telco affilated phone
store. (The GTE/Verizon Phone Mart here carries a commericial
grade import 2500 and 2554 set with a GTE moolded logo.)
To me, a faithful 2500 set will have a metal baseplate,
and most of the parts will interchange with older versions.
And the late model WE produced sets are still a fond
memory, though I confess that the 2500's produced by
ITT and Comdial in the 70's and 80's were just as good.
Sadly, Avaya nee Lucent nee ATT seems to have gone the
"our own unique redesign" route and now produces a 2500
knockoff that is a plastic wonder.
The current versions of the 2500 are still widely used in commercial
service. Many have undergone some updating, but the plastic and
electrical parts will interchange with "original" 2500's.
Cortelco nee ITT nee Kellogg still makes a faithful 2500 set.
Comdial, Vodavi and Premier (nee Sprint nee North Supply)
also make 2500 sets. I have also seen them with the GTE and
NW Bell logo's. Northern Telecom may also still make one.
Changes internally on the more faithful versions include
improved touch tone pad designs, plastic ringer frames,
printed circuit network, and altered hookswitch design.
Cortelco and Premier actively sell repair parts for
2500 sets through industry distribution channels. And
there are several phone rebuilders that refurbish 2500's
that are still quite active.
--
Macy M. Hallock, Jr. N8OBG +1.216.241.7166 fax +1.216.241.7522 ma...@apk.net
APK Net, Inc. 1621 Euclid Ave. Suite 1230 Cleveland, OH 44115 USA
Jeff and Lisa
> less than faithful.
My employer bought Comdial 2500s to outfit our office 12 years ago.
They still work fine. I use a WE 302 at my desk.
Tony Pelliccio
says...
> You are right I am not a collector. I am an ex Bell employee and I
> personally don't see anything collectable about a 2500 phone, there
> are way to many of them out there. I have a couple in my closet that
> I don't use any more so if someone wants to collect them make me an
> offer.
While a 2500 is not in my view a collectible, the older ones are still
built to take the abuse.
I can't count how many Cortelco 2500's I've simply thrown away because
they die within a couple of years.
Tony
Watson A.Name
> As quoted from "Watson A.Name" <nos...@postoffice.pacbell.net>:
>
> +---------------
> > I think ITT or one of the major phone makers still makes a set that
> > looks like the 2500 set, maybe a bit more plastic inside but still well
> > made.
>
> The 2500 is far from dead, though many off the knockoff's are
> less than faithful. Many are only similiar in appearance but
> just cheap approximations internally. Most will not interchange
> parts. You will seldom see a "real" 2500 in a retail consumer
> store, though they are sometimes seen in telco affilated phone
> store. (The GTE/Verizon Phone Mart here carries a commericial
> grade import 2500 and 2554 set with a GTE moolded logo.)
> To me, a faithful 2500 set will have a metal baseplate,
> and most of the parts will interchange with older versions.
> And the late model WE produced sets are still a fond
> memory, though I confess that the 2500's produced by
> ITT and Comdial in the 70's and 80's were just as good.
The Comdial was the one I was trying to think of. I had that Conair
cheap POS with a metal base plate and the weighted handset. It was so
bad that it quit dialing TT, just pulse. And then that finally failed
too, making it good for putting necxt to the crapper to just answer,
just in case.
I took it apart and threw most of it in the trash.
> Sadly, Avaya nee Lucent nee ATT seems to have gone the
> "our own unique redesign" route and now produces a 2500
> knockoff that is a plastic wonder.
>
> The current versions of the 2500 are still widely used in commercial
> service. Many have undergone some updating, but the plastic and
> electrical parts will interchange with "original" 2500's.
>
> Cortelco nee ITT nee Kellogg still makes a faithful 2500 set.
> Comdial, Vodavi and Premier (nee Sprint nee North Supply)
> also make 2500 sets. I have also seen them with the GTE and
> NW Bell logo's. Northern Telecom may also still make one.
>
> Changes internally on the more faithful versions include
> improved touch tone pad designs, plastic ringer frames,
> printed circuit network, and altered hookswitch design.
>
> Cortelco and Premier actively sell repair parts for
> 2500 sets through industry distribution channels. And
> there are several phone rebuilders that refurbish 2500's
> that are still quite active.
I have an AT&T 2554 BMP wall phone. It was used to work on a PBX and
the wiring inside was weird. I tried to unscrew one spade lug on the
network and the cheap plastic top that holds all the screw contacts just
shattered into pieces. I tried to patch it up with epoxy, but it still
shattered in other places. I'd like to find another network like that.
It's smaller than a regular 2500's NET425, it's a NET 4228K.
One thing I don't like about Bell sets is that if I have to replace
something like this, I have to drill out the rivets and putz around with
some 4-40 screws and nuts.
Another thing I've found is that some intallers jimmied the hookswitch
contacts to make them work with special connections, like 1A2 systems.
The contacts may be all bent up and not work right.
> --
> Macy M. Hallock, Jr. N8OBG +1.216.241.7166 fax +1.216.241.7522 ma...@apk.net
> APK Net, Inc. 1621 Euclid Ave. Suite 1230 Cleveland, OH 44115 USA
--
Watson A.Name
Is that a conversation piece, or what?
I'd like to get this one working and on my desk, but unfortunately it's
not mine.
http://home.pacbell.net/lundgrej/oldph101.html
RichC
clockworks )
Sure it is a old toy but is more fun than programming the chip based
dialers!
Also, if you have seen a rotary dial version..... magical
(the dial rotates by itself)
me wrote in message ...