How hard it is to find an entry level cisco job
detro...@my-deja.com
one of the hardest things to do. I finally got that job but it took a
lot of hard work. Most jobs working with cisco products require at
least 2 years of work experience on routers. It took me 2 months to
find a job working with switches and routers and I worked very hard in
my search. I had no experience working on either but I have a decent
amount of networking experience particulary NT Server and computer
hardware experience. Plus I am an MCSE and CCNA. Im happy I finally got
a job but it was a fight. I had to turn down many network
administration positions to get what I wanted. Another thing I did to
get that position was I made sure I knew a heck of a lot more than what
was on the ccna exam. I studied many different books dealing with WAN
and Routers. That helped me do well on techinical interviews and if I
did not have that additional knowledge I would not have gotten this job
and this job pays extremely well. Has anyone else had a lot of trouble
trying to get entry level jobs in this field? If you are remember
persistents pays off. I know from experience.
MED
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
Victor A. Garcia
EXPERIENCE, the mother of all science.
<detro...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
news:882g3q$8hv$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
Tom MacIntyre
<vgar...@tampabay.rr.com> wrote:
>Welcome to the Club, you find out that a paper CCNA means nothing,
>EXPERIENCE, the mother of all science.
OK...I am again baffled by this line of thinking...can't get a job
unless you're in the union, can't be in the union unless you have a
job...I ask you this...can there be a "paper CCIE"? If so, then...???
If not, then the CCNA is only a start and a buildup anyway, so what's
the problem with some people reading a bit to try to better
themselves??? If I'm not mistaken, Cisco is about to adjust their
acceptance scale, and I plan on being one of their guinea pigs...I
agree with the fact that experience is the key to everything in life,
but I don't understand the attitude that will shut out people who have
worked their tails off to get ahead, especially when some of these
people are likely to continue to work as hard after attaining
employment...
Tom
Fergie
I have recently been through the exercise of interviewing people for several
positions in our company. I must say that seeing a CCNA on the application
was pretty much an automatic offer of an interview.
What did disappoint and baffle me, was that the CCNA qualification did not
appear to help these people answer the basic networking questions any better
than those who appeared to have no exposure to Cisco but had other relevant
IT experience. Questions which would have been asked in the CCNA test (I
have done a few of the practice tests myself to see what I could expect
people to understand) produced confused looks and little response.
While some of this may be due to the expected stress of an interview, it was
so common that I wonder how they passed the CCNA.
It really does seem that experience is more important than a CCNA but it
baffles me how they could pass a CCNA exam without understanding some fairly
basic concepts like subnetting or the difference between a routable protocol
and a routing protocol and what each does.
"Tom MacIntyre" <tmac...@ns.sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:38a6293c....@news.wolf...
Lou Nelson
I think what people are trying to say is a CCNA is not going to find a
highly demanding, massive salary, huge network job with just paper certs.
What was asked is for entry level. Entry level can be found ... but it will
be low salary and will begin giving that experience looked for.... In time
promotions can be attained either in-house or by moving... The experience
will only be gained by continuing studying and taking advantages of
oppurintiies within the job.... it will not happen overnight
But it can be done... Hell just show me one CCIE that was never a
beginner... just one who at some point in their life did not say What is a
protocol? What is a TCP/IP... or something similar for the few who
invented such things.... Just remember when you are a CCIE... and some ask
How can I get started... to give them some roadmap
--
Lou Nelson, CCNA, CCDA
"Tom MacIntyre" <tmac...@ns.sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:38a6293c....@news.wolf...
| On Sun, 13 Feb 2000 02:31:51 GMT, "Victor A. Garcia"
| <vgar...@tampabay.rr.com> wrote:
|
| >Welcome to the Club, you find out that a paper CCNA means nothing,
| >EXPERIENCE, the mother of all science.
|
| OK...I am again baffled by this line of thinking...can't get a job
| unless you're in the union, can't be in the union unless you have a
| job...I ask you this...can there be a "paper CCIE"? If so, then...???
| If not, then the CCNA is only a start and a buildup anyway, so what's
| the problem with some people reading a bit to try to better
| themselves??? If I'm not mistaken, Cisco is about to adjust their
| acceptance scale, and I plan on being one of their guinea pigs...I
| agree with the fact that experience is the key to everything in life,
| but I don't understand the attitude that will shut out people who have
| worked their tails off to get ahead, especially when some of these
| people are likely to continue to work as hard after attaining
| employment...
|
| Tom
|
| >
Martin Cooper
> It really does seem that experience is more important than a
> CCNA but it baffles me how they could pass a CCNA exam without
> understanding some fairly basic concepts like subnetting or the
> difference between a routable protocol and a routing protocol
> and what each does.
For the same reason as the MCSE perhaps (i.e. learning
the vendors course material is sufficient to pass it) ?
This is why I respect CCIE, and might actually bother to
learn all the non-IP and supporting protocol related guff
required to pass it...but then again - do the people who
designed the Internet protocols have CCIE? ;-)
M.
Tom MacIntyre
<LouN...@email.msn.com> wrote:
>Tom,
>I think what people are trying to say is a CCNA is not going to find a
>highly demanding, massive salary, huge network job with just paper certs.
>What was asked is for entry level. Entry level can be found ... but it will
>be low salary and will begin giving that experience looked for.... In time
>promotions can be attained either in-house or by moving... The experience
>will only be gained by continuing studying and taking advantages of
>oppurintiies within the job.... it will not happen overnight
>
>But it can be done... Hell just show me one CCIE that was never a
>beginner... just one who at some point in their life did not say What is a
>protocol? What is a TCP/IP... or something similar for the few who
>invented such things.... Just remember when you are a CCIE... and some ask
>How can I get started... to give them some roadmap
These are some of my points as well. As for salary, my expectations
are modest compared to what I've seen in some posts. In my previous
job, as a radio/TV technician for a national broadcaster in Canada
(CBC), I grossed $45k Cdn, after 17+ years...$30k US. I make half of
that now repairing consumer electronics equipment, and it takes a lot
more hours as well. I've always been a person who went the extra mile
as far as learning outside of work hours, so I'm used to that aspect
of IT anyway. If I ever got to $100k?...heck, I wouldn't know what to
do if I had $50k coming in.
I also try very hard to remember my beginnings; that's good advice. I
post a lot in sci.electronics.repair, and I find it keeps me sharp
trying to help a person repair a TV or monitor that may be several
thousand miles away from me, based on what may or may not be a good
description of the problem. If and when I break into an IT job, I will
probably continue to do this, perhaps on a lesser scale.
Another post in this thread mentioned the distinction between routing
and routable protocols; I got fooled by that in a practice test this
past week. I hope learning by one's mistakes is the way to go, because
I'm making a lot of them!:-))
Tom
jake
routers, and they are good and well experienced, BUT the Gov. wont allow for
them to be certified because they know if they are then they can get better
paying jobs else places.
Some of them have been offered $180,000 a year because they know a lot and they
have the experience, BUT when companies find that there not certified. Well,
they get turned down.
Several of them, with their low low income, have saved up some money to get
certified, BUT then again all of these people that were certified were
threatened by there boss, a military representative, that if they go about
getting a job some place else were. That they would give a horrible reference
and say nothing but bad things about them.
I've worked with Sun Os and Solaris 5.2 for several years and I know a lot. I
can do more than any fresh college grads, and some say that I'm the mark of all
trades when it comes to being a Solaris System Administrator.
But large companies don't want people that are specialized in every thing. They
don't want to hire some wing ding that says, "I'm the mark of all trades so HIRE
me." They want to hire people that offer resumes saying "I'm specialized in one
field, so hire me big bucks to work in that one field".
As a system administrator I do a lot of things, and I'm certified in saying that
I can operate several flavors of Unix and Linux, BUT here we go again, I'm not
certified by SUN Solaris for Sun Os or Solaris 5.2 AIX.
Being a civilian, a military officer or enlisted, the military knows how to keep
you right were they want you, and they know how to put a sour taste in the
mouths of others that want to hire you.
I'm a man with a wife and child, and the only thing that I can think of is to
put $12,000 of my own money so I can get certified by Sun.
But I can't do all of that in the next 6 months.
My contract with the Gov. ends in six months and right now I want to work some
place else where my child can get a better education, and where I can go to
college and get the training that I would like to have.
I will miss working with my coworker, and I know they will miss me too.
It's going to be hard leaving all of them.
Jake
Fergie wrote:
> I too am baffled by this generalisation.
>
> I have recently been through the exercise of interviewing people for several
> positions in our company. I must say that seeing a CCNA on the application
> was pretty much an automatic offer of an interview.
>
> What did disappoint and baffle me, was that the CCNA qualification did not
> appear to help these people answer the basic networking questions any better
> than those who appeared to have no exposure to Cisco but had other relevant
> IT experience. Questions which would have been asked in the CCNA test (I
> have done a few of the practice tests myself to see what I could expect
> people to understand) produced confused looks and little response.
>
> While some of this may be due to the expected stress of an interview, it was
> so common that I wonder how they passed the CCNA.
>
> It really does seem that experience is more important than a CCNA but it
> baffles me how they could pass a CCNA exam without understanding some fairly
> basic concepts like subnetting or the difference between a routable protocol
> and a routing protocol and what each does.
>
David Osborne
the hands on to move ahead and learn. Depending on how you learn (some prefer
hands-on, others through books). The CCNA cert is merely a stepping stone to
bigger and better things! I am actually shocked that someone said an offer is
made based on a CCNA cert!!! Amazing....
I interviewed a guy once that has his CCNA card....stated bridges operated at
Layers 4 and 7 of the OSI model. Yeah, lets give him a router to config and
install! Its like football....gotta have the basics. Gotta know em first to
understand how ARP works and more importantly, why it works....I have asked the
same basic question at all my interviews: with a UNI server with a IP address of
10.50.80.10 and a mask of 255.255.255.0...what would you see on a sniffer with
the machie sending a broadcast? The answers I have gotten ranged from dumb looks
to "i'd need a calculator"
In order to obtain an entry-level networking job, you really need to be in the
right place at the right time. You have to have someone take a chance on you and
train you. In return, they would epect your loyalty for a few years....its a
two-way street, you learn at their expense then move onwards and upwards. As
stated earlier, your salary will be low to start but wait a few years and see the
lights go off in your head as you begin to grasp more and more concepts! Then
the jobs, challenges and to go with that, the salary builds.....
Tom MacIntyre wrote:
> >"Tom MacIntyre" <tmac...@ns.sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> >news:38a6293c....@news.wolf...
> >| On Sun, 13 Feb 2000 02:31:51 GMT, "Victor A. Garcia"
> >| <vgar...@tampabay.rr.com> wrote:
> >|
> >| >Welcome to the Club, you find out that a paper CCNA means nothing,
> >| >EXPERIENCE, the mother of all science.
> >|
> >| OK...I am again baffled by this line of thinking...can't get a job
> >| unless you're in the union, can't be in the union unless you have a
> >| job...I ask you this...can there be a "paper CCIE"? If so, then...???
> >| If not, then the CCNA is only a start and a buildup anyway, so what's
> >| the problem with some people reading a bit to try to better
> >| themselves??? If I'm not mistaken, Cisco is about to adjust their
> >| acceptance scale, and I plan on being one of their guinea pigs...I
> >| agree with the fact that experience is the key to everything in life,
> >| but I don't understand the attitude that will shut out people who have
> >| worked their tails off to get ahead, especially when some of these
> >| people are likely to continue to work as hard after attaining
> >| employment...
> >|
> >| Tom
> >|
> >| >
Dom Lam
CCNA is a stepping stone. I've been in this field for about 1.5 years, but
have been very lucky. I went from a low starting salary to tripled, just by being in
the right place at the right time. Also I have put in late hours of learning and
playing. For those out there taking the exam and expecting a lot, save yourself money
and invest it. For those who are honest with themselves, realize that a CCNA will
start you off around mid $20's to low $40's. the low $40's require experience in
other IT careers. but look forward to building up what you know now, to what you will
know in a years time of hands on. When you do pass the CCNA, look for jobs that will
develop you. Not a mundane routine job of maintenance or updates. Test lab engineer
or tech are the premiere jobs one can get themselves in. You get to play and learn
everything that is available, without responsibility. That's how I started , with a
publication test lab. Now I am living in Silicon Valley making some cool cash. It
beats the cold east coast where I came from.
The Certification does not guarentee a job, nor an interview. It does say you
have passed an exam by some means, and you have a certain competancy level of
knowledge in Networking. It does not say how much you know nor how well you know it.
If I recieved a resume from a CCNA I would consider a phone interview first to see
where they are coming from. If they are looking for a get rich quick career, I
suggest they try "Who Wants to be a Millionaire". If the hardworking applicant were
looking for an entry level job and self improvement I would bring them in for a
personnal interview.
Look else where: Cisco is not the only company out there that makes
networking equipment. An intelligent IT manager or CTO/CIO would want an applicant to
be able to give choices in choosing networking appliances . Meaning I don't want a
Micro$oft network. What else can you offer me? "Ohh you know how to configure and
implement a VPN network with "BrandX Gear", Great your hired"
Good Luck
SA DA
10.50.80.10 10.50.80.255
PS. I am not certified. If I started job hunting agian and they overlook my resume
b/c I don't have a certification nor college degree, then it wasn't meant to be and
they are missing out on a over self-educated engineer. I am where I am b/c I kept my
eyes open, ego low, and desire up. I can confidently and competantly talk about,
VoIP/ATM/FR, VPN, VLANS, Routing, WAN switching, Network Performance, QoS, Remote
Access, Network Management, etc etc etc..... and the best part...all acquired in 1.5
years. It also helps to have a multi million dollar lab to play in.
Yup No Cert , No Degree, just a lot of useless knowledge to normal human beings.
Francois Labreque
Dom Lam wrote:
>
> SA DA
> 10.50.80.10 10.50.80.255
Or
SA DA
10.50.80.10 255.255.255.255
If the machine is configured for all-1's broadcasts.
--
Francois Labreque | The surest sign of the existence of extra-
flabreq | terrestrial intelligence is that they never
@ | bothered to come down here and visit us!
attglobal.net - Calvin
Bob Andrews
When your military contract expires, don't re-enlist; get out ASAP. WorldnetDaily
recently reported that the US Army, due to the mass exodus of the enlisted ranks,
has instituted a mandatory policy of indefinite enlistment of all non-coms E-6 &
above. E6 & above non-coms have found themselves re-enlisted under a new mandatory
contract where they can never leave, essentially meaning military peacetime
slavery. The URL to this article below interviews different Army non-coms that were
re-enlisted without their consent, forced against their will to permanent, lifetime
enlistment:
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/bluesky_bresnahan/20000210_xex_soldier_slav.shtml
It seems that Slick Willy has decided that if you put in enough hard work to reach
E-6, that you deserve lifetime enslavement. The general behind this program, Maj.
Gen. Thomas W. Garrett, is behind this program.
jake wrote:
deont
Daniel Roesen
>Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii
>Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
><!doctype html public "-//w3c//dtd html 4.0 transitional//en">
><html>
>I am also an MCSE.
You didn't need to tell us that.
SCNR,
Daniel
linu...@hotmail.com
CCNP and I can't even get a interveiw for a cisco job! I also have 3
2500 seires routers for a home lab, but no real work experience . I'm
thinking about giving this crap up and sticking to NOS's!! Good luck
to you.
Thomas
I am just starting down the CCNA road and haven't applied for anything
yet. But do you have another degree as well AA, AS, or BA, BS? Is it
computer related? EE, Computer E, Comp Sci, or MIS?
I have met a few people with positions where they are working on routers
for a major telcom company and they don't have their CCNA's yet. I was
told by them that with the CCNA I would be a shoe-in for an oppening and
I have a BS in MIS.
Just my own opinion.
Packet Man
For some reason it is hard for some people to get a decent job or even an
interview. I myself am doing fairly nicly but I didn't do any degrees or
certifications. All I did was a diploma in electronics. Did I got a job with
a telco working outside residential install and repair. Not really a
challeging job, did get to see a few nightgowns though!! My point is that I
had to start from the bottom. Then an internal posting came about for a tech
to look after TDM, Nortel fiber optics, satellite microwave, etc. I applied
and I got it. I did that for about 7-8 years and finally realized that
LAN/WAN (transport oriented) was my niche (big niche!). I started my CCNA
studies last year. While studying my CCNA I got a new job at a company I
wasn'y even applying to. They knew I was motivated to do better, I was a
tech "who wants to know it all" and they liked that. They offered me a job
and I accepted. Now I am studying my CCNP not for hopes of more pay or
anything, but because I truly love the technology and its evolution. From my
discussions with some management poeple I have formed an opinion that human
resources are not overlly impressed with someone wearing a dozen badges but
no substance. What they like to see is a natural progression of skills.
Study, work, evolve, new studies, new work, evolve, new studies, new work,
evolve, etc. My last piece of advice is don't look for a "Cisco job". I
don't if such a thing exists. Ciscos gear is the best at what it does, but
chances are there are other vendors that this gear interconnects with.
Surely you have heard of names like Nortel, Lucent, 3COM, FORE, Alcatel,
Gandalf/Mitel, Advanced Fiber Communications, I could rhyme off 20 more
vendors. If you want a job try and keep yourself well rounded. Specialize in
Cisco gear but be expected to be able to turn up ATM based T1/T3 or TDM
based T1/T3 to interconnect the WANs of this great gear. These ATM WAN links
may carried over SONET fiber. ................and guess what I look "green"
next to some professionals in the field. Theres lots of work to go around
you just have to market yourself appropiatly, and praying will help too!! My
opinions are kind of transport/carrier/isp oriented but I think you get my
point. All the best and luck! Oh I noticed your e-mail header says Linux.
You must love Linux so develop your skills there too, because Linux is like
Cisco, its popularity, quality and market share continues to grow!!
Have fun,
Vaughn CCNA
<linu...@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:38d5aa96.4307704@news...