+++ sequence problem with USR DS 16.8k
Todd Barnreiter
I immediately get a NO CARRIER and the modem hangs up. I want
to enter into command mode, not hang up! My old HST never
had this problem. I looked through all the settings and I
can't find anything that makes a difference. What's the
deal here?
-BarryB
David G Metzger
You have S14=001; set S14=000 as documented in the manual, on the
quick reference card, and in the modem's on-line help screen.
--
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Dave Metzger
d...@shell.portal.com
Todd Barnreiter
>In article <1992Oct10....@u.washington.edu> t...@hardy.u.washington.edu (Todd Barnreiter) writes:
>> issue the + + + escape sequence on my USR Dual Standard 16.8k
>>I immediately get a NO CARRIER and the modem hangs up. I want
>>to enter into command mode, not hang up! My old HST never
>>had this problem. I looked through all the settings and I
>>can't find anything that makes a difference. What's the
>>deal here?
>>
>>-BarryB
>>
> You have S14=001; set S14=000 as documented in the manual, on the
>quick reference card, and in the modem's on-line help screen.
Ok, I checked and S14=001 was indeed true. After changing it
to S14=000, everything works normally.
Except when I reset my modem the setting is lost! It turns
out that register S14 is not saved when you do a AT&W.
What are you talking about this being documented in the manual, reference
card and modem's help screens? This is not true! Every single
one of those sources says:
S14 Resevered
No matter what I do, this register always defaults to a setting
of 001 at power-up/reset.
Is this a known error in some of USR's ROMs? I have 4.1 ROMs which
I thought were the newest for the v.small Dual's.
If anyone knows anything about this please help! I don't relish
the thought of having to sit on hold for an hour wait for
someone at USR who can answer this.
-BarryB
Lasse Hero
>Ok, I checked and S14=001 was indeed true. After changing it
>to S14=000, everything works normally.
>Except when I reset my modem the setting is lost! It turns
>out that register S14 is not saved when you do a AT&W.
>What are you talking about this being documented in the manual, reference
>card and modem's help screens? This is not true! Every single
>one of those sources says:
> S14 Resevered
>No matter what I do, this register always defaults to a setting
>of 001 at power-up/reset.
>Is this a known error in some of USR's ROMs? I have 4.1 ROMs which
>I thought were the newest for the v.small Dual's.
>If anyone knows anything about this please help! I don't relish
>the thought of having to sit on hold for an hour wait for
>someone at USR who can answer this.
Isn't there a DIP switch for that in USR's modems? I used to own a
Dual Standard, and IF I remember correctly, DIP switch 9 had something
to do with this..
--
Lasse Hero - la...@mits.mdata.fi
Roger Fajman
> I immediately get a NO CARRIER and the modem hangs up. I want
> to enter into command mode, not hang up! My old HST never
> had this problem. I looked through all the settings and I
> can't find anything that makes a difference. What's the
> deal here?
>
> -BarryB
I'm not certain about the newer USR Dual Standards, but the older
ones have a dip switch that controls whether the modem drops the
connection or just escapes to command mode.
Roger Fajman Telephone: +1 301 402 1246
National Institutes of Health BITNET: RAF@NIHCU
Bethesda, Maryland, USA Internet: R...@CU.NIH.GOV
Todd Barnreiter
>Isn't there a DIP switch for that in USR's modems? I used to own a
>Dual Standard, and IF I remember correctly, DIP switch 9 had something
>to do with this..
Thanks for all the responses. It is indeed DIP switch 9 that will
control this. This is not referenced in the index under
escape code +++ sequence as it should be though!
-BarryB
David Lesher
# This is not referenced in the index under
# escape code +++ sequence as it should be though!
Didja ever notice how it's not what the manuals say that is
important. Rather, it is what they don't tell us that turns out
to bite on on the backside?
Old Man Murphy must have a kid who's a tech writer.....
--
A host is a host from coast to coast..wb8foz@skybridge.scl.cwru.edu
& no one will talk to a host that's close..........................
Unless the host (that isn't close).........................pob 1433
is busy, hung or dead....................................20915-1433
puma
Someone already suggesting setting S14, but my modem (DS) has a dip
switch, switch 9
description is "response to +++"
OFF - modem goes on hook (hangs up), sends NO
CARRIER result code (factory setting)
ON - Modem maintains connection (Online-Command
mode), sends OK result code.
depending on your modem, one of these should fix the problem.
(Folks seems to be REAL NASTY lately when responding to messages,
but in good conscience I need to point out that you should have
gone to your manual, and looked up "escape sequence" in the index,
that's what I did...)
David G Metzger
>d...@shell.portal.com (David G Metzger) writes:
>
>>In article <1992Oct10....@u.washington.edu> t...@hardy.u.washington.edu (Todd Barnreiter) writes:
>>> issue the + + + escape sequence on my USR Dual Standard 16.8k
>>>I immediately get a NO CARRIER and the modem hangs up. I want
>>>to enter into command mode, not hang up! My old HST never
>>>had this problem. I looked through all the settings and I
>>>can't find anything that makes a difference. What's the
>>>deal here?
>>>
>>>-BarryB
>>>
>
>> You have S14=001; set S14=000 as documented in the manual, on the
>>quick reference card, and in the modem's on-line help screen.
>
>Ok, I checked and S14=001 was indeed true. After changing it
>to S14=000, everything works normally.
>What are you talking about this being documented in the manual, reference
>card and modem's help screens? This is not true! Every single
>one of those sources says:
> S14 Resevered
Hmm... you're right. S14 itself is not described in the DS manual, but
the information you seek is in there. Look under "escape sequence" in the
index.
When I looked it up, the Sporster manual was the closest, so I grabbed it
first. S14 is well documented in the Sportster manual/reference card/on-line
help; that's the first time I've been aware of something in the Sportster
docs whch was not in the DS docs -- though the converse is frequently true.
>No matter what I do, this register always defaults to a setting
>of 001 at power-up/reset.
Set dipswitch 9 to "down".
[ ... ]
>-BarryB
Adam Frix
TB> issue the + + + escape sequence on my USR Dual Standard 16.8k
TB> I immediately get a NO CARRIER and the modem hangs up. I want
TB> to enter into command mode, not hang up! My old HST never
TB> had this problem. I looked through all the settings and I
TB> can't find anything that makes a difference. What's the deal
TB> here?
You may have looked at all the software settings, but you skipped the DIP
switches, didn't you?
Switch 9 on my HST controls this behavior.
--Adam--
--
Adam Frix via cmhGate - Net 226 fido<=>uucp gateway Col, OH
UUCP: ...!n8emr!bluemoon!cmhgate!20.18!Adam.Frix
INET: Adam...@p18.f20.n226.z1.FIDONET.ORG
Dave Ratcliffe
The Subject: line above displays the dreaded 3 + signs but I have yet to
see anyone flame this person for his seeming indiscretion. C'mon guys,
the flamfest went rampant when Toby posted that message with the dreaded
3 +'s in a row yet here is another example of the very same thing and
there are no objections. Is it because he doesn't WORK for Hayes so it's
ok for him?
DISCLAIMER: I see nothing wrong with Barry's using the 3 plus signs. I
see a LOT wrong with the people who jumped down Toby's throat and have
vowed to buy no Hayes equipment because of something a PR hack wrote.
This is the ultimate in silliness. Refuse to buy Hayes by all means if
you dislike the quality of their product. Even refusing to buy from
Hayes because of their business conduct (ie. the suits) may be
understandable. Refusing to buy because of something as trivial as a PR
release is ludicrous.
Is it time for a reality check here or what?
--
...uunet!wa3wbu!frackit!dave -or- | Dave Ratcliffe |
frackit!da...@uunet.UU.NET -or- da...@frackit.uucp -or- | Sys. <*> Admin. |
vogon1!compnect!frackit!da...@psuvax1.psu.edu | Harrisburg, Pa. |
DXB...@psuvm.psu.edu
>In article <1992Oct10....@u.washington.edu>,
>t...@hardy.u.washington.edu
>(Todd Barnreiter) writes:
>>
>The Subject: line above displays the dreaded 3 + signs but I have yet to
>see anyone flame this person for his seeming indiscretion. C'mon guys,
>the flamfest went rampant when Toby posted that message with the dreaded
>3 +'s in a row yet here is another example of the very same thing and
>there are no objections. Is it because he doesn't WORK for Hayes so it's
>ok for him?
three pluses in a row does *NOT* trigger a TIES modem!!!
IT is the valid AT command code. (Preceeded of course by +++)
Scott Denham X7117
>
>The Subject: line above displays the dreaded 3 + signs but I have yet to
>see anyone flame this person for his seeming indiscretion. C'mon guys,
>the flamfest went rampant when Toby posted that message with the dreaded
>3 +'s in a row yet here is another example of the very same thing and
>there are no objections. Is it because he doesn't WORK for Hayes so it's
>ok for him?
I think the issue is not simply the three +'s, but the combination of
that and a valid AT command. The dreaded TIES "bomb" (their words, not
mine!) requires at least the AT.
>DISCLAIMER: I see nothing wrong with Barry's using the 3 plus signs. I
>see a LOT wrong with the people who jumped down Toby's throat and have
>vowed to buy no Hayes equipment because of something a PR hack wrote.
DISCLAIMER: I think the whole issues gotten a bit silly. Anybody who is
concerned about connection security will have taken steps to disable
in-band escapes anyway. I DO think, though, that "hiding" such strings
in a press release is a really cheap shot and I don't have much respect
for the person who did it or a company that allows that kind of stuff to
go out under their banner. I find it signifigant that there hasn't been
(or I haven't seen, anyway) any explanation or apology from Hayes about
the presence of said string in their press release. Could be somebody's
idea of a joke, a silly attempt to prove some kind of a point about the
vulnerability of the TIES sequence, or even a malicious forgery to try
to discredit Hayes (though the contents of the press release did that
pretty well for me.)
Bohdan Tashchuk
>The Subject: line above displays the dreaded 3 + signs but I have yet to
>see anyone flame this person for his seeming indiscretion. C'mon guys,
>the flamfest went rampant when Toby posted that message with the dreaded
>3 +'s in a row yet here is another example of the very same thing and
>there are no objections. Is it because he doesn't WORK for Hayes so it's
>ok for him?
>[ ... more knee-jerk drivel along the same lines deleted ... ]
>Is it time for a reality check here or what?
Don't assume that everyone but you who reads this group must be an imbecile.
The Hayes press release didn't just have the +++, it had +++ immediately
followed by AT. This is MUCH, MUCH, MUCH, MUCH different.
^
(emphasis added for the knee-jerk Hayes defenders)
Most modems that use "TIES", the Time Independent Escape Sequence, check that
the next few characters following the escape are AT. This helps reduce the
probability of inadvertantly escaping into command mode.
James Seymour
>In article <1992Oct10....@u.washington.edu>, t...@hardy.u.washington.edu (Todd Barnreiter) writes:
>>
>> issue the + + + escape sequence on my USR Dual Standard 16.8k
>> I immediately get a NO CARRIER and the modem hangs up. I want
>> -BarryB
>
>The Subject: line above displays the dreaded 3 + signs but I have yet to
>see anyone flame this person for his seeming indiscretion. C'mon guys,
>the flamfest went rampant when Toby posted that message with the dreaded
>3 +'s in a row yet here is another example of the very same thing and
>there are no objections. Is it because he doesn't WORK for Hayes so it's
>ok for him?
>
Methinks not. The problem is this: the judge in MN enjoined
Hayes from their "Tick, Tick, ..." campaign in part because
he felt that the plaintiff in that case (MultiTech) had
adequately demonstrated that a valid TIES sequence was
unlikely to occur in "normal" data (roughly speaking). With
the type of thing they're doing with the press release, Hayes
*appears* to be trying to make it appear normal for TIES
sequences to occur in "normal" data. Strikes me as pretty
low, but I don't see how anybody can stop 'em. Don't know as
anybody should try.
IMHO, Hayes has gone off the deep end. I can understand
Hayes' patent fight (don't agree with the patent tho), and I
can understand them at least taking a shot at discrediting
TIES (I'm not insulted as I don't think it was aimed at
professionals - I'll give 'em that much credit). But after
the judge's decision, to massage the TIES-breaker kit and
make it available under another guise strikes me as
dangerously flirting with angering the court. (I am told
they've done a similar re-work on their ads.) Then to
follow that up by distributing press releases with embedded
TIES sequences as if to prove the judge's decision wrong -
after the fact - seems to me like spitting into the wind.
It seems to me that Hayes is certainly *not* going to win
any points with the court by "pushing the envelope" of the
obvious intent the court's decision(s) - no matter how much
within the letter of the law or any rulings. Further,
every time Hayes does something like this, it seems they
alienate even more of the folks in this newsgroup. Many of
whom are, like myself, computing professionals. People
that make some of the larger datacom purchasing decisions
and possibly influence countless others.
>
[disclaimer deleted]
> ... Refusing to buy because of something as trivial as a PR
>release is ludicrous.
>
Why? Said PR is part of Hayes' business practices. I
personally have boycotted a number of companies for various
business practices I disliked. (I boycotted a beer company
for advertising their Consumer Reports rating in spite of
CU's policy against that. I boycotted 7-11 stores for
giving in to Meese's terror campaign.) I fail to see the
difference. I, personally, am not boycotting Hayes. I
simply don't buy their products because they traditionally
have been over-priced and under-performers IMO.
>Is it time for a reality check here or what?
>
No, but it's time for a yet another DISCLAIMER: (Just so
there's no misunderstandings.) I have had a fairly long
association with MultiTech. I've been beta-testing for them
for several years. I like them. I like their products. I
am not paid by them. I don't represent them or their
opinions. And while I'm probably biased in my opinions,
they are my own and nobody else's (except by coincidence).
>
>--
> ...uunet!wa3wbu!frackit!dave -or- | Dave Ratcliffe |
--
Jim Seymour | "If NT is the answer, it must
...uunet!medar!jseymour | be a really silly question"
jsey...@medar.com | Warner Losh
CIS: 72730,1166 GEnie: jseymour | Computer Power Software
1012br...@vms.csd.mu.edu
>In article <1992Oct10....@u.washington.edu>, t...@hardy.u.washington.edu (Todd Barnreiter) w>
>see anyone flame this person for his seeming indiscretion.
There is a difference, the 3 +'s in the press release were followed by an
AT<cr> in a deliberate attempt to confuse TIES modems. The 3 +'s by
themselves in this title do not, and also were not so intended...
.
Now, for my observations... I find it very amusing that everyone was SO
upset at the original Hayes ad campaign, and the test kit, and said that
"this is not important, it doesn't really matter..."
And suddenly, when that particular sequence appears (in a Hayes press
release, no less...) the same folks are up in arms about how terrible that
was. Anyone else see the contradiction here??
Nick Sayer
>Now, for my observations... I find it very amusing that everyone was SO
>upset at the original Hayes ad campaign, and the test kit, and said that
>"this is not important, it doesn't really matter..."
But obviously Hayes believes it is important, or they wouldn't be
engaging in FUD advertising.
>And suddenly, when that particular sequence appears (in a Hayes press
>release, no less...) the same folks are up in arms about how terrible that
>was. Anyone else see the contradiction here??
No. The fact that the sequence appeared in the press release didn't get
everybody mad because their modems suddenly stopped working. Everybody
got mad because Hayes made AN ATTEMPT to get everybody's modem to
stop working. I don't know about you, but I would regard an attempt at
screwing up my system only slightly behind actually succeeding. Hayes
was attempting to sabotage people who didn't buy into their FUD
campaign. That the sabotage was largly unsuccessful doesn't discount
the fact that it was attempted.
--
Nick Sayer <mra...@quack.sac.ca.us> | "...You can act like a policeman
N6QQQ @ N0ARY.#NOCAL.CA.USA.NOAM | or a soldier, but not both."
37 19 49 N / 121 57 36 W |
+1 408 249 9630, log in as 'guest' | -- Tom Clancy, "Patriot Games"
Graham Toal
In article <fT5...@quack.sac.ca.us> mra...@quack.sac.ca.us writes:
: everybody mad because their modems suddenly stopped working. Everybody
: got mad because Hayes made AN ATTEMPT to get everybody's modem to
: stop working. I don't know about you, but I would regard an attempt at
: screwing up my system only slightly behind actually succeeding. Hayes
: was attempting to sabotage people who didn't buy into their FUD
: campaign. That the sabotage was largly unsuccessful doesn't discount
: the fact that it was attempted.
Say, isn't that illegal under US law? Wonder what would happen if
the US gestapo who raided Steve Jackson Games were put on to this -- do
you think they'd get away with impounding all Hayes' computing equipment? :-)
G
Bryan Donaldson
>Methinks not. The problem is this: the judge in MN enjoined
>Hayes from their "Tick, Tick, ..." campaign in part because
>he felt that the plaintiff in that case (MultiTech) had
>adequately demonstrated that a valid TIES sequence was
>unlikely to occur in "normal" data (roughly speaking). With
>the type of thing they're doing with the press release, Hayes
>*appears* to be trying to make it appear normal for TIES
>sequences to occur in "normal" data. Strikes me as pretty
>low, but I don't see how anybody can stop 'em. Don't know as
>anybody should try.
I believe that all of Hayes's press releases for several years have
gone out with that string. All the ones I remember seeing had it, even
on paper copy.
--
Bryan Donaldson gatech!stiatl!bryan
Sales Technologies, Inc or maybe br...@STIATL.SALESTECH.COM
3399 Peachtree Rd, NE If one is born into an era of decadence,
Atlanta, GA (404) 841-4000 one may as well enjoy it while it lasts.
Christian Weisgerber
> Is it time for a reality check here or what?
I'm not in any way affiliated with Hayes Corp. I don't own a Hayes
modem, I don't even know anybody in person who owns one. All of my three
modems implement the escape sequence in Hayes style with guard time, I
neither know nor care whether the manufacturers got the proper licensing
agreement. However, I very much appreciate Mr.Nixon's presence on the
net and I hold his person in high regard.
My opinion:
No inband escape sequence can be intirely safe. Hayes guard time feature
has generally proven to be sufficiently reliable with manual dial-out
connections. If you operate a dial-in service common sense dictates to
disable inband escaping, anyway.
So what about TIES? I consider it unsafe enough that I would disable it
always; thus TIES deprives a modem of a sensible inband escape
capability. This is no big deal, just noteworthy. Also, TIES increases
the greatest risk of all in modem usage: errors caused by the operator's
ignorance. If left enabled it *can* unexpectedly drop modem connections.
If you think TIES sequences don't appear naturally just read Usenet.
'Natural' occurance is a ridiculous idea here; people don't transfer
natural data, people transfer man-made data.
I haven't seen Hayes' ads. From the descriptions I have read here I
think I very much disagree with such a campaign. Nevertheless, from a
technical view Hayes have a point there. If people claim they don't need
the guard time, TIES will do fine, then they should be able to handle
TIES 'features' appropriately. The Hayes press release was a very clever
trick to prove them wrong. The public outcry whenever +++AT appears on
the net better confirms that Hayes are right than any trial. Hypocrisy,
I sense thy smell.
Sincerely
--
Christian "naddy" Weisgerber, Germany na...@mips.ruessel.sub.org
Just say +++ATH
James Jones
>No inband escape sequence can be intirely safe. Hayes guard time feature
>has generally proven to be sufficiently reliable with manual dial-out
>connections. If you operate a dial-in service common sense dictates to
>disable inband escaping, anyway.
That's an interesting point--I wonder why the other modem makers don't run
an ad implying an inband escape sequence with (or without) guard time is a
ticking time bomb, since malicious users could send it to a modem they're
dialed up to?
James Jones (not affiliated with any modem manufacturer)
Opinions, if any, expressed here are solely those of the author.
tni...@hayes.com
jej...@microware.com (James Jones) writes:
> That's an interesting point--I wonder why the other modem makers don't run
> an ad implying an inband escape sequence with (or without) guard time is a
> ticking time bomb, since malicious users could send it to a modem they're
> dialed up to?
There are some potential malicious uses of TIES that Hayes has
refused to publicize because of the possible serious security
violations that could occur. We don't want to be accused of
providing the knowledge that someone needed to set up a nice
password stealer or something like that -- which is much easier with
a TIES modem than one with the Heatherington escape sequence.
That's why I won't post that info here.
--
Toby Nixon, Principal Engineer | Voice +1-404-840-9200 Telex 401243420
Hayes Microcomputer Products, Inc. | Fax +1-404-447-0178 CIS 70271,404
P.O. Box 105203 | BBS +1-404-446-6336 AT&T !tnixon
Atlanta, Georgia 30348 | UUCP uunet!hayes!tnixon Fido 1:114/15
USA | Internet tni...@hayes.com
Joseph Malloy
re: the infamous Hayes plus string...
>
>I believe that all of Hayes's press releases for several years have
>gone out with that string. All the ones I remember seeing had it, even
>on paper copy.
>
>--
>Bryan Donaldson gatech!stiatl!bryan
Just what is the purpose of that string? I mean, it seem pointless.
Joe
Greg Andrews
>
>There are some potential malicious uses of TIES that Hayes has
>refused to publicize because of the possible serious security
>violations that could occur. We don't want to be accused of
>providing the knowledge that someone needed to set up a nice
>password stealer or something like that -- which is much easier with
>a TIES modem than one with the Heatherington escape sequence.
>That's why I won't post that info here.
>
Hmmm... I'm not sure I see where the absence of a guard time will
make it easier to set up a password stealer.
Nevertheless, because TIES could detect a false escape in more
situations than the Heatherington method would, Telebit will
have escape disabled on the appropriate pre-stored configurations
(asynchronous auto-answer ones).
--
.------------------------------------------------------------------.
| Greg Andrews | UUCP: {amdahl,claris}!netcom!gerg |
| | Internet: ge...@netcom.COM |
`------------------------------------------------------------------'