Bad modem connection with fibreglass line
Philipp Post
Since my phone company switched the cables in my city from copper to
fibreglass I am having issues with modem connections. The connection
stops sending/receiving data after some time but keeps beeing
connected or simply disconnects suddenly.
With a good ten years old Elsa professional MicroLink 56k I have no
issues, but with all simpler hardware such as a Lucent SoftModem AMR
or a Connexant PCI V52 modem card the trouble starts. The modem log
always says "Termination cause: CCT108 turned off". I have a line
noise of 18 dbm and a receiving signal of 27 dbm.
What is the "CCT108 turned off" meaning? Could there anything be done,
possibly a modified init string? I possibly a tool out there which
could help making recommendations to adjust modem settings dealing
with bad phone lines/instable connections?
Thanks and brgds
Philipp Post
tlvp
Not sure about the CCT108 message, or the Lucent SoftModem,
but I had a Connexant modem (incorporated in the motherboard
of an HP laptop) that simply couldn't survive a retrain (given
your signal and noise figures, I suspect you may be retraining
often :-) ). I finally disabled it, and used a *real* modem
(a USR/MegaHertz PC card unit) in the PC Card slot instead:
no more problems.
Quite possibly your Connexant modem (and maybe the Lucent)
have similar retrain problems, and only the old Elsa can
survive a retrain without going dead :-) .
Why your signal and noise figures are as they are? Dunno --
perhaps a bad fiber coupling somewhere between your premises
and your CO? Only your phone company can ascertain that.
Cheers, and hope you get it sorted out, -- tlvp
--
Avant de repondre, jeter la poubelle, SVP
Philipp Post
I dug out the documentation which came with the Elsa and found that
this device is specially prepared dealing with short interrupts in the
connection without going dead (at least after the last firmware update
what I do have). I will focus on getting a better PCI card modem for
the Desktop now. - Recommendations on vendors welcome, if any.
> Why your signal and noise figures are as they are? Dunno -- perhaps a bad fiber coupling somewhere between your premises and your CO? Only your phone company can ascertain that. <
This is also my theory, but my phone company? Tried to get my entry in
the phone directory changed last year. Took them six months and
several re-tries. Now dealing with a problem in the cable? Duh!
Thanks and brgds
Philipp Post
N. B. J'ai déjà jeté la poubelle. :)
tlvp
>> Quite possibly your Connexant modem (and maybe the Lucent) have similar retrain problems, and only the old Elsa can survive a retrain without going dead :-) . <
>
> I dug out the documentation which came with the Elsa and found that
> this device is specially prepared dealing with short interrupts in the
> connection without going dead (at least after the last firmware update
> what I do have). I will focus on getting a better PCI card modem for
> the Desktop now. - Recommendations on vendors welcome, if any.
Sorry, can't help there :-{ .
>> Why your signal and noise figures are as they are? Dunno -- perhaps a bad fiber coupling somewhere between your premises and your CO? Only your phone company can ascertain that. <
>
> This is also my theory, but my phone company? Tried to get my entry in
> the phone directory changed last year. Took them six months and
> several re-tries. Now dealing with a problem in the cable? Duh!
The data folks and the directory folks are presumably unrelated one to another.
My local loop provider's telephony and DSL support folks, likewise: unrelated.
It *might* be worth giving your data/fiber support folks a try, at least :-) .
> Thanks and brgds
>
> Philipp Post
>
> N. B. J'ai déjà jeté la poubelle. :)
Félicitations! -- tlvp
Philipp Post
others.
I was able to purchase a used Elsa Microlink 56k PCI modem card (abt
10 years old) via Amazon. It works with an instable connection without
going dead! No issues with Windows XP drivers - it is supported by the
built in drivers.
Those who still have old Elsa devices with them do good on keeping
them or sell them for good money - they are much better than a lot of
the present ones.
Elsa went out of business some years ago and was taken over by Devolo,
however I could not locate any drivers for the older devices on their
web site. Nevertheless there are mirrors of the old Elsa ftp server
available. One is at the Georg-August-University of Goettingen/Germany
over here:
ftp://ftp.gwdg.de/pub/misc/elsa/FILES/DATACOMM/MICROLNK/
Includes drivers upto Windows 2000, for a few devices also Windows XP
drivers.
brgds
Philipp Post
Moe Trin
reduces the chance of your post being seen. Find a real news server.
On Mon, 28 Sep 2009, in the Usenet newsgroup comp.dcom.modems, in article
<16fd4dd3-2129-437b...@a6g2000vbp.googlegroups.com>,
Philipp Post wrote:
>> Quite possibly your Connexant modem (and maybe the Lucent) have similar
>> retrain problems, and only the old Elsa can survive a retrain without
>> going dead :-) . <
>I dug out the documentation which came with the Elsa and found that
>this device is specially prepared dealing with short interrupts in the
>connection without going dead (at least after the last firmware update
>what I do have).
There _used_to_be_ a web page called "The Winmodem page" from Rob Clark
in the USA about 6 years ago that had an extensive list of various
modems, with reports about their usefulness with non-microsoft operating
systems. Many so-called "software modems" only have drivers for some
version of windoze, and those people using other operating systems
needed to avoid those software modems. In an earlier post, you
identified the Elsa modem as a "Elsa professional MicroLink 56k", but
you don't identify the type (internal verses external verses PCMCIA).
The two internal (PCI) versions were Conexant/Rockwell soft-modems:
RC56HCF-PCI ELSA MicroLink 56k-PCI HCF US, Rockwell R6785-62 (HCF)
chipset (PCI\VEN_127A&DEV_1004&SUBSYS_15001048&REV_01)
RS56-PCI ELSA MicroLink 56k-PCI HSF EU, Conexant/Rockwell HSF
chipset (PCI\VEN_14F1&DEV_2014&SUBSYS_15401048)
while the PCMCIA version appears to be a re-badged Motorola hardware
based modem. There were at least four external (RS-232) modems, all of
which were conventional hardware modems. The so-called "driver" for
these was a .BMP (bit-mapped icon), and a short text file that
contained the modem initialization strings. There was no actual
software needed, as they are hardware modems, and would work equally
well on an original IBM PC from 1981 running ProComm (or other BBS
style software) over MS-DOS 2.0, or a late model Pentium from 2005.
>I will focus on getting a better PCI card modem for the Desktop now.
> - Recommendations on vendors welcome, if any.
PCI modems are getting to be as rare as ISA now. I don't know about
you, but I have better things to do with my CPU cycles than to run
software emulating two Euros worth of hardware that the modem
manufacturer left out to improve his profit. For real hardware modems,
you would want
3Com/U.S. Robotics 3CP2976, 3CP2977, 3CP3298, 3CP5609, 3CP5610, 3CP5613
ActionTec L56DV Actiontec Model PCI56012-01/PM560LKi,
PCI56012-01CW/PM560LKC Call-Waiting-Modem
Archtek TP560i Smartlink 5634PCV "Surfrider"
Digitan Systems L56DV 56K PCI Data/Fax, DS560-558
E-Tech PCI56TP
GVC Model MD0321 (retail), MD0324 (white box)
Multi-Tech MultiModem PCI, Model MT5634ZPX-PCI
Well Well/Origo/Well-Link Topic FM-56PCI-TP
Zoom 2920/1125/H08-15002
Basically, these used one of the following chipsets:
Conexant RC56D-PCI chipset
Lucent Venus chipset
TOPIC TP560i chipset
USR/TI Kermit chipset
Most modems built today are either software modems (part of the sound
system built onto the motherboard), or USB. Some of the USB devices
are full hardware modems, some are software modems. You can also find
USB<->RS-232 adapters that will allow you to run an earlier RS-232
modem on your latest 64-bit Super-Whizzo computer.
Old guy
tlvp
To Moe Trin's list of true hardware modem manufacturers I'd be
tempted to add ZyXEL. Back in the 14.4 era, they made one of the
most rock-solid true hardware external data/fax modems around.
ZyXEL is still in business -- I just don't know if reliable modems
are still part of their stock-in-trade. Worth checking, though :-) .
Cheers, -- tlvp
Philipp Post
For the record, here those modems which are working for me:
Elsa MicroLink 56k pro
SERENUM\ELS8318
Connexant chip
The "pro" device did just exist as an external serial port device.
Elsa MicroLink 56k PCI HCF EU (PCI card for desktop PC)
PCI\VEN_14F1&DEV_1034&SUBSYS_15101048&REV_08
Connexant HCF chip RH56D-PCI R6795-12 E38899.1
It has its own speaker on the card.
This device was my problem solver.
Those which are not working well in my environment are
Lucent Technologies Soft Modem AMR (AC '97 Notebook modem)
PCI\VEN_8086&DEV_2486&SUBSYS_10D110CF&REV_01\3&61AAA01&0&FE
Actiontec/Connexant PCI V92 Modem (PCI card for desktop PC)
PCI\VEN_14F1&DEV_2F30&SUBSYS_205D14F1
Connexant chip HSF CX11252-41Z 0828Y1JU
Agere USB 2.0 Soft Modem
USB\VID_047E&PID_2892
brgds
Philipp Post
Moe Trin
<ha6mkb$nhn$1...@news.eternal-september.org>, tlvp wrote:
>Moe Trin wrote:
>> There _used_to_be_ a web page called "The Winmodem page" from Rob
>> Clark in the USA about 6 years ago that had an extensive list of
>> various modems, with reports about their usefulness with
>> non-microsoft operating systems.
>To Moe Trin's list of true hardware modem manufacturers
Actually, it's from that winmodem web page. A quick search on google
brings up a couple of archives of it, but it really hasn't been
updated in about six years.
>I'd be tempted to add ZyXEL. Back in the 14.4 era, they made one of
>the most rock-solid true hardware external data/fax modems around.
Hmmm...
[compton ~]$ winmodem ZyXEL
extlist.txt.12.04: 1RO . ZyXEL Communications . . .
extlist.txt.12.04:? 1ROTAI-27700-M5-E ZyXEL Model U-90E external
modem; U336E Plus; NX560
extlist.txt.12.04:? 1ROTAI-35222-M5-E ZyXEL Omni 56K Pro - - EXT
extlist.txt.12.04: ZyXEL Comet 3356, Dynalink VoiceDesk56 Pro,
Rockwell ACF2 chipset
extlist.txt.12.04: MagicXpress MX56VX-R, Philips PCA 561EM, ZyXEL Comet
3356, Rockwell ACF
isa_list.txt.12.04: 1RO . ZyXEL Communications . . .
isa_list.txt.12.04: ZyXEL Comet 3356B, OEM V1456VQH-R, Quantex MDM-S56/A,
Phoebe Micro
usblist.txt.12.04: 1RO . ZyXEL Communications . . .
usblist.txt.12.04:? 1ROTAI-35597-M5-E ZyXEL Omni 56K USB-ACF - - USB
[compton ~]$
At least at that time, there were not that many ZyXEL units reported.
Popularity, or availability? Who knows. Two more modern documents
(the Linux "Hardware-HOWTO" and Modem-HOWTO" available via your
favorite search engine) only mention ZyXEL as old data not to be
counted on.
>ZyXEL is still in business -- I just don't know if reliable modems
>are still part of their stock-in-trade. Worth checking, though :-) .
As mentioned, modems are getting less common, and most of what I see
in the stores are either oversexed sound cards (the word "WinModem" is
actually a tradename of 3Com/USRobotics) or are external devices using
the USB interface. Not a really great choice if you're stuck with a
dialin situation. As for ZyXEL, a very quick search doesn't turn up
any modern POTS modems, and they seem to have moved on to producing
DSL modems.
Old guy
Moe Trin
<9a7ab3b7-3ce3-412b...@d4g2000vbm.googlegroups.com>,
Philipp Post wrote:
NOTE: Posting from groups.google.com (or some web-forums) dramatically
reduces the chance of your post being seen. Find a real news server.
>For the record, here those modems which are working for me:
>
>Elsa MicroLink 56k pro
>SERENUM\ELS8318
>Connexant chip
>The "pro" device did just exist as an external serial port device.
The RS-232 externals _had_ to be hardware modems, as there isn't
enough speed on the serial port to handle an emulated device. It
used to be a telling statement to know the hardware requirements,
because when you saw that the modem needed a minimum of a Pentium
233, that was a clear indication it was a software based design.
I've actually seen a genuine IBM PC-XT (4.77 MHz Intel 8088)
running a 56k v.90 hardware modem under MS-DOS 3.3, and it was not
having a problem doing so.
>Lucent Technologies Soft Modem AMR (AC '97 Notebook modem)
>PCI\VEN_8086&DEV_2486&SUBSYS_10D110CF&REV_01\3&61AAA01&0&FE
The PCI\VEN_8086&DEV_2486 say it's an Intel 82801CA/CAM AC'97 Modem
Controller
>Actiontec/Connexant PCI V92 Modem (PCI card for desktop PC)
>PCI\VEN_14F1&DEV_2F30&SUBSYS_205D14F1
>Connexant chip HSF CX11252-41Z 0828Y1JU
Connexant SoftV92 SpeakerPhone SoftRing Modem with SmartSP
>Agere USB 2.0 Soft Modem
>USB\VID_047E&PID_2892
Agere Systems, Inc. (Lucent) Agere Systems Soft Modem
Like I said - real modems are getting hard to find. This last one is
an example of the external software modem, possible only because of
the high bandwidth of the USB port.
Old guy
tlvp
I dare say you're quite right, Moe. My ZyXEL experience dates from my use
of their 1496 external data/fax modem back in the previous century. I had
first learned of its existence -- and desirability -- in this very NG way
back before I ever acquired one, and its rock-solid reliability seemingly
outdid every competitor, even such worthies as Trailblazers, ... .
Unable (or, perhaps, just unwilling) to afford one then, I was overjoyed
to have been deemed the winner of a ZyXEL modem trivia quiz administered
by ZyXEL USA at a computer fair back in the early '90s, and awarded one
free 1496U (with life-long free firmware updates) as my prize :-) .
While ZyXEL did keep pace with the increasing modem speed race up into the
various flavors of 56 kB/sec devices, they certainly saw that stand-alone
modems as a business were approaching a dead-end, and therefore diverted
their focus to other things, not always providing the same attention to
detail that had been their hallmark in their earlier modem designs.
So ZyXEL may in fact *not* be a name to include on the OP's short list of
brands/models to look for. My apologies for having provided such a red herring.
And thanks, Moe, for making me aware ... .
Cheers, -- tlvp
Moe Trin
<op.u1c0q...@acer250.gateway.2wire.net>, tlvp wrote:
>I dare say you're quite right, Moe. My ZyXEL experience dates from my
>use of their 1496 external data/fax modem back in the previous century.
"previous century" - that's starting to make people feel old. ;-)
>I had first learned of its existence -- and desirability -- in this
>very NG way back before I ever acquired one, and its rock-solid
>reliability seemingly outdid every competitor, even such worthies as
>Trailblazers, ... .
That "Winmodems are not Modems" webpage I'm referencing from lists two
1496s - one with LCD display, one with LEDs. There has to be more
differences than that, as they have completely different (US) FCC-ID
numbers.
>While ZyXEL did keep pace with the increasing modem speed race up
>into the various flavors of 56 kB/sec devices, they certainly saw
>that stand-alone modems as a business were approaching a dead-end,
>and therefore diverted their focus to other things, not always
>providing the same attention to detail that had been their hallmark
>in their earlier modem designs.
Modems haven't completely disappeared, as there are still large areas
of the world where wide-band connections are simply unavailable, or
extremely expensive. I'm about 22 miles / 35 km from down-town, and
wide band took a long time to reach out this far. But again, there
are people who don't need wide-band, which is why about half of the
new systems I was looking at two months ago had built-in modems of
some kind.
Old guy
tlvp
> On Mon, 05 Oct 2009, in the Usenet newsgroup comp.dcom.modems, in article
> <op.u1c0q...@acer250.gateway.2wire.net>, tlvp wrote:
>
>> I dare say you're quite right, Moe. My ZyXEL experience dates from my
>> use of their 1496 external data/fax modem back in the previous century.
>
> "previous century" - that's starting to make people feel old. ;-)
My apologies! But even 10-year-olds -- they're not "old", are they? --
hark back to the previous century :-) .
>> I had first learned of its existence -- and desirability -- in this
>> very NG way back before I ever acquired one, and its rock-solid
>> reliability seemingly outdid every competitor, even such worthies as
>> Trailblazers, ... .
>
> That "Winmodems are not Modems" webpage I'm referencing from lists two
> 1496s - one with LCD display, one with LEDs. There has to be more
> differences than that, as they have completely different (US) FCC-ID
> numbers.
Mine was the one with the LEDs. I never knew any details about the other,
beyond its being roughly twice as unaffordable as mine.
>> While ZyXEL did keep pace with the increasing modem speed race up
>> into the various flavors of 56 kB/sec devices, they certainly saw
>> that stand-alone modems as a business were approaching a dead-end,
>> and therefore diverted their focus to other things, not always
>> providing the same attention to detail that had been their hallmark
>> in their earlier modem designs.
>
> Modems haven't completely disappeared, as there are still large areas
> of the world where wide-band connections are simply unavailable, or
> extremely expensive. I'm about 22 miles / 35 km from down-town, and
> wide band took a long time to reach out this far. But again, there
> are people who don't need wide-band, which is why about half of the
> new systems I was looking at two months ago had built-in modems of
> some kind.
What's putting external modems out to pasture these days is the computer
makers' refusal to incorporate "legacy ports" in new equipment, IMO.
All netbooks I've found have neither an inbuilt modem nor the PCMCIA slot
that my trusty 3Com/Megahertz 3CXFEM656C combo 56k + ethernet requires,
hence becomes an isolated island in the absence of a wi-fi or ethernet
connection. Nor have they a true RS-232 serial port for a modem like the
ZyXEL. And the USB-to-whatever adapter folks don't seem to make reliable
USB/RS-232 or USB/PCMCIA-slot yet -- or I've found no such, anyway.
Are there any USB-based true hardware-only modems to be had?
Reed
>
> Are there any USB-based true hardware-only modems to be had?
>
> Cheers, -- tlvp
here is one.....
http://www.usr.com/products/modem/modem-product.asp?sku=USR5637
Moe Trin
<op.u1gyu...@acer250.gateway.2wire.net>, tlvp wrote:
>Moe Trin <ibup...@painkiller.example.tld> wrote:
>> "previous century" - that's starting to make people feel old. ;-)
>My apologies! But even 10-year-olds -- they're not "old", are they? --
They are to the younger kids ;-)
>hark back to the previous century :-) .
Recent discussion among co-workers about broadcast entertainment - yes
I do remember listening to "The Lone Ranger", "Tom Mix", and "The
Shadow" on the radio in the 1940s (I got my first giant 7 inch / 178mm
table-top television in 1955 seven years after the family got our
first one). Old? Who, me???
>> That "Winmodems are not Modems" webpage I'm referencing from lists
>> two 1496s - one with LCD display, one with LEDs. There has to be
>> more differences than that, as they have completely different (US)
>> FCC-ID numbers.
>Mine was the one with the LEDs. I never knew any details about the other,
>beyond its being roughly twice as unaffordable as mine.
Yours was a model U-1496E. The LCD version was a U-1496(S) and
apparently worked with two telephone lines (choice, not the dual or
"shotgun" style), but that's about the limit of my knowledge.
>What's putting external modems out to pasture these days is the
>computer makers' refusal to incorporate "legacy ports" in new
>equipment, IMO.
Most of that is because the functions that used those ports - not just
the modem, but also the (serial) mouse/trackball, dumb terminal
display, and even the (serial) printer have moved to faster interfaces
because of the perceived need to move more data faster. (When the
Internet was first made available to public use, 2400 BPS modems were
a big deal, and the backbone - such as it was - was a 56k channel.)
Recall that with the advent of the Pentium, most PC motherboards used
a chipset that combined many of the original discrete functions into
three main chips - North-bridge (CPU to high-speed bus) South-bridge
(low speed interfaces) and Super-I/O (floppy, serial and parallel
ports). Floppies are gone, and the devices that used the serial and
parallel interfaces have moved to the USB bus, so that Super-I/O is
no longer needed - look at all the money we can save!
>All netbooks I've found have neither an inbuilt modem
My wife just replaced her notebook/laptop computer, and about half of
the models she looked at had some form of internal modem. I think all
of them were soft-modems as that is the cheapest (most profitable) way
to offer that function.
>nor the PCMCIA slot that my trusty 3Com/Megahertz 3CXFEM656C combo
>56k + ethernet requires,
The PCMCIA slot was a marketing decision. Recall, it was originally
designed for memory cards (PCMCIA is "Personal Computer Memory Card
International Association") to allow capability expansion somewhat
like the expansion boards in a desktop.
>And the USB-to-whatever adapter folks don't seem to make reliable
>USB/RS-232
The chips seem to be available (Cypress Semi, Kawasaki LSI, Olitec,
Moxa Technologies, Prolifec among others), but there doesn't seem to
be the market for the devices. It may be a bandwidth issue. Keyboards
and mice when to PS/2 before USB, and most printers also moved from
parallel to USB. That basically left modems as the remaining RS-232
style device, and USB can handle that function too.
>or USB/PCMCIA-slot yet -- or I've found no such, anyway.
That would be much more difficult, as PCMCIA is a parallel bus (16 bit
wide data, 26 bit wide address) very much like the ISA bus. It would
be expecting a lot to translate from the CPU parallel bus to a single
channel serial line and thence back to a parallel bus.
>Are there any USB-based true hardware-only modems to be had?
3Com/USR 0525 and 5605, Allied Data SFM560-E, SFM560-USB and FMV560-E,
Zoom Model 2985L/2986L (and OEM models 1162L/1163L), Multi-Tech L56DV,
MD1625A and MT5634ZBA-USB Askey MagicXpress MX56VX-T1 (and OEM model
V1456VQE-T1), Digicom/ModemBlaster DE5670, Actiontec USB56012 Model
UM100, Easytel (Finland) TW-5614UL+USB and NetComm (Australia)
Roadster II 56 USB and AM5050R3 models - all from around 2005, and
there are more recent ones. It's not a dead world.
Old guy
tlvp
Many thanks, Reed! Noted, and bookmarked :-) .
tlvp
> On Thu, 08 Oct 2009, in the Usenet newsgroup comp.dcom.modems, in article
> <op.u1gyu...@acer250.gateway.2wire.net>, tlvp wrote:
>
>> ... [much snipped] ...
>>Are there any USB-based true hardware-only modems to be had?
>
> 3Com/USR 0525 and 5605, Allied Data SFM560-E, SFM560-USB and FMV560-E,
> Zoom Model 2985L/2986L (and OEM models 1162L/1163L), Multi-Tech L56DV,
> MD1625A and MT5634ZBA-USB Askey MagicXpress MX56VX-T1 (and OEM model
> V1456VQE-T1), Digicom/ModemBlaster DE5670, Actiontec USB56012 Model
> UM100, Easytel (Finland) TW-5614UL+USB and NetComm (Australia)
> Roadster II 56 USB and AM5050R3 models - all from around 2005, and
> there are more recent ones. It's not a dead world.
>
> Old guy
Ah, thanks very, very much! I'll have to start pricing these out.
Meanwhile, I don't quite agree that printers are all ditching their
serial or parallel interface ports for USB -- certainly none of the
workhorse printers I use and love have done any such thing.
Least of all my old reliable book-page production printer, a duplexing
HP Color LJ 4500. That's an investment I refuse to dump in a landfill
until it just up and dies on me, and there's no sign of it doing that
any time soon, any more than of its growing a USB port where its mini
parallel port has always been.
But I quite agree with the point you were really making, that newer
printers are being produced with USB ports only (or USB and ethernet).
And some of them get sold for less than a replacement toner cart for
my other old workhorse, an HP LJ 5L.
Ken Whiton
*-* In Article <slrnhctcsb.n...@compton.phx.az.us>,
*-* Moe Trin wrote
*-* About Re: Bad modem connection with fibreglass line
> On Thu, 08 Oct 2009, in the Usenet newsgroup comp.dcom.modems, in
> article <op.u1gyu...@acer250.gateway.2wire.net>, tlvp wrote:
>> Moe Trin <ibup...@painkiller.example.tld> wrote:
>>> "previous century" - that's starting to make people feel old. ;-)
>> My apologies! But even 10-year-olds -- they're not "old", are they?
> They are to the younger kids ;-)
>> -- hark back to the previous century :-) .
> Recent discussion among co-workers about broadcast entertainment -
> yes I do remember listening to "The Lone Ranger", "Tom Mix", and
> "The Shadow" on the radio in the 1940s
That brings back memories. In addition to "The Lone Ranger" and
"The Shadow", I also remember listening to "Jack Armstrong, the
All-American Boy", "Bobby Benson", "Green Hornet", "Sky King", and
"Straight Arrow".
> (I got my first giant 7 inch
> / 178mm table-top television in 1955 seven years after the family
> got our first one).
My family got our first television in 1952. Before that my
brother and I used to go to our next-door neighbors' house after
school to watch the old western movies (starring Lash LaRue and Johnny
Mack Brown, among others) on "Hoss Opry Playhouse".
> Old? Who, me???
Only as old as you feel. ;-)
Ken Whiton
--
FIDO: 1:132/152
InterNet: kenw...@surfglobal.net.INVAL (remove the obvious to reply)
Moe Trin
<op.u1it6...@acer250.gateway.2wire.net>, tlvp wrote:
>Meanwhile, I don't quite agree that printers are all ditching their
>serial or parallel interface ports for USB -- certainly none of the
>workhorse printers I use and love have done any such thing.
Well, that's true - but what are you connecting them to? None of the
last three computers I've bought came with a parallel port, and serial
printers aren't all that common.
>But I quite agree with the point you were really making, that newer
>printers are being produced with USB ports only (or USB and ethernet).
I still have two ancient Epson printers that are parallel port only,
but they're getting awfully tired. The two HP are both Ethernet only.
>And some of them get sold for less than a replacement toner cart for
>my other old workhorse, an HP LJ 5L.
Results 1 - 10 of about 125,000 for Gillette "give away the razor".
(0.36 seconds)
"King Camp Gillette" developed the concept of (virtually) giving away
the razor, and making his fortune selling the razor blades. The
companies building "home" printers are following suit. And the paper
isn't that cheap either.
Old guy
Moe Trin
<hamqt...@enews5.newsguy.com>, Ken Whiton wrote:
>*-* Moe Trin wrote
>> Recent discussion among co-workers about broadcast entertainment -
>> yes I do remember listening to "The Lone Ranger", "Tom Mix", and
>> "The Shadow" on the radio in the 1940s
> That brings back memories. In addition to "The Lone Ranger" and
>"The Shadow",
``Who knows what evil LURKS in the hearts of men...''
>I also remember listening to "Jack Armstrong, the All-American Boy",
>"Bobby Benson", "Green Hornet", "Sky King", and "Straight Arrow".
"Straight Arrow" - geez, I remember digging out the cardboard separators
from a box of Nabisco Shredded Wheat because they had indian secrets
printed on them - how to build a tepee, and your own bow and arrow. My
first attempt resulted in the arrow flying nearly six feet (2 meters)!!!
There were quite a few shows - don't forget the cowboys who could (and
did) sing like Roy Rogers and Gene Autry, and all of those radio
theater shows - "The FBI in peace and war" (brought to you by Lifebouy
soap... or was that Lava).
>> (I got my first giant 7 inch / 178mm table-top television in 1955
>> seven years after the family got our first one).
> My family got our first television in 1952. Before that my
>brother and I used to go to our next-door neighbors' house after
>school
and after everyone had finished the homework and chores...
>to watch the old western movies (starring Lash LaRue and Johnny
>Mack Brown, among others) on "Hoss Opry Playhouse".
That sounds like a local program. The afternoon shows were generally
films of some kind, until it was time for the kiddie shows, always
with some idiot dressed up as a clown with a red ball on his nose, and
showing the 1930s cartoons. Some of the evening shows I won't miss,
like Uncle Milty - but there were some innovators like Ernie Kovacs
and Stan Freberg (remember "Time for Beanie" with Cecil The Sea-sick
Sea Serpent and Dishonest John?)
>> Old? Who, me???
> Only as old as you feel. ;-)
Yup!
Old guy
Ken Whiton
*-* In Article <slrnhcv56t.1...@compton.phx.az.us>,
*-* Moe Trin wrote
*-* About Re: Bad modem connection with fibreglass line
> On Fri, 09 Oct 2009, in the Usenet newsgroup comp.dcom.modems, in
> article <hamqt...@enews5.newsguy.com>, Ken Whiton wrote:
>> *-* Moe Trin wrote
>>> Recent discussion among co-workers about broadcast entertainment -
>>> yes I do remember listening to "The Lone Ranger", "Tom Mix", and
>>> "The Shadow" on the radio in the 1940s
>> That brings back memories. In addition to "The Lone Ranger"
>> and "The Shadow",
> ``Who knows what evil LURKS in the hearts of men...''
>> I also remember listening to "Jack Armstrong, the All-American
>> Boy", "Bobby Benson", "Green Hornet", "Sky King", and "Straight
>> Arrow".
> "Straight Arrow" - geez, I remember digging out the cardboard
> separators from a box of Nabisco Shredded Wheat because they had
> indian secrets printed on them - how to build a tepee, and your own
> bow and arrow. My first attempt resulted in the arrow flying nearly
> six feet (2 meters)!!!
:-)
> There were quite a few shows - don't forget the cowboys who could
> (and did) sing like Roy Rogers
Who, before he was Roy Rogers, was Leonard Slye, one of the
founders of the Sons Of The Pioneers.
> and Gene Autry, and all of those
> radio theater shows - "The FBI in peace and war" (brought to you by
> Lifebouy soap... or was that Lava).
According to
<http://www.old-time.com/commercials/1940's/L-A-V-A.htm>, it was Lava.
>>> (I got my first giant 7 inch / 178mm table-top television in 1955
>>> seven years after the family got our first one).
>> My family got our first television in 1952. Before that my
>> brother and I used to go to our next-door neighbors' house after
>> school
> and after everyone had finished the homework and chores...
At 9 or 10 years old (for me, three years younger for my
brother), there was no homework in those days, and I don't remember
having chores.
>> to watch the old western movies (starring Lash LaRue and Johnny
>> Mack Brown, among others) on "Hoss Opry Playhouse".
> That sounds like a local program.
It was, WNAC-TV, Boston
(<http://radioinsight.com/boards/topic/18134>, about 2/3 of the way
down the page). According to that link, it came on at 5:30, so if
there were chores, that allowed time to get them done.
> The afternoon shows were generally
> films of some kind, until it was time for the kiddie shows, always
> with some idiot dressed up as a clown with a red ball on his nose,
> and showing the 1930s cartoons. Some of the evening shows I won't
> miss, like Uncle Milty - but there were some innovators like Ernie
> Kovacs
Ah yes, The Nairobi Trio.
> and Stan Freberg (remember "Time for Beanie" with Cecil The
> Sea-sick Sea Serpent and Dishonest John?)
I remember watching "Time for Beanie".
If you're interested in some more of this reminiscing, there's an
extended thread (in which I participated) from about a year and a half
ago at
<http://groups.google.com/group/mozilla.general/browse_thread/thread/a16d10732a7b8721>.
Moe Trin
<hapgf...@enews1.newsguy.com>, Ken Whiton wrote:
>*-* Moe Trin wrote
>> Ken Whiton wrote:
>>> My family got our first television in 1952. Before that my
>>> brother and I used to go to our next-door neighbors' house after
>>> school
>> and after everyone had finished the homework and chores...
> At 9 or 10 years old (for me, three years younger for my
>brother), there was no homework in those days, and I don't remember
>having chores.
No chores? My, you were privileged! We all had to do some things to
earn our allowances (a whole nickel a week!). Outside of keeping my
room clean, I was responsible for taking out the trash and burning it.
Homework wasn't very serious until I got to the third grade, when there
was reading, math, and some geography homework.
>> That sounds like a local program.
> It was, WNAC-TV, Boston
Well, hello from WNHC-TV in New Haven.
>> but there were some innovators like Ernie Kovacs
> Ah yes, The Nairobi Trio.
I'm trying to remember when they started that one - I _think_ it was
around 1954 or so. I actually started watching him on WPTZ in
Philadelphia in late 1950. He had so many characters, but I think my
favorite was the poet "Percy Dovetonsils".
>> and Stan Freberg
> I remember watching "Time for Beanie".
Stan was so much more famous for his advertisements ("who put those
eight great tomatoes in that itty-bitty can") and records - one radio
station here _still_ plays "Green Christmas" at least once between
Thanksgiving and Christmas, and someone will mention "He ruined the
ending... one of the loveliest parts"
>If you're interested in some more of this reminiscing, there's an
>extended thread (in which I participated) from about a year and a
>half ago at
It's great to see stuff from Blinky - funny thing is I remember just
about every star mentioned. I also remember the dancing pack of Old
Gold cigarettes, later joined by the dancing match-box. And now the
theme song from the Morey Amsterdam show is running through my brain.
Old guy
tlvp
Moe Trin <ibup...@painkiller.example.tld> wrote:
> On Fri, 09 Oct 2009, in the Usenet newsgroup comp.dcom.modems, in article
> <op.u1it6...@acer250.gateway.2wire.net>, tlvp wrote:
>
>> Meanwhile, I don't quite agree that printers are all ditching their
>> serial or parallel interface ports for USB -- certainly none of the
>> workhorse printers I use and love have done any such thing.
>
> Well, that's true - but what are you connecting them to? None of the
> last three computers I've bought came with a parallel port, and serial
> printers aren't all that common.
Connecting to the last notebooks (XP units, both) that *did* have one.
Agreed, the two most recent boxes don't have one (and that's a great
annoyance!).
>> But I quite agree with the point you were really making, that newer
>> printers are being produced with USB ports only (or USB and ethernet).
>
> I still have two ancient Epson printers that are parallel port only,
> but they're getting awfully tired. The two HP are both Ethernet only.
>
>> And some of them get sold for less than a replacement toner cart for
>> my other old workhorse, an HP LJ 5L.
>
> Results 1 - 10 of about 125,000 for Gillette "give away the razor".
> (0.36 seconds)
>
> "King Camp Gillette" developed the concept of (virtually) giving away
> the razor, and making his fortune selling the razor blades. The
> companies building "home" printers are following suit. And the paper
> isn't that cheap either.
At least you can get a carton (10 reams) of paper from Staples
by submitting -- in a good week -- one $30 Rewards voucher,
earned via turning in 10 empty toner carts :-) . Probably likewise
from OfficeMax, OfficeDepot, others ... .
> Old guy
tlvp
> ... [snip] ...
>
> Well, hello from WNHC-TV in New Haven.
>
Well hi, Elm City neighbor :-) . Fancy meeting you here, of all places!
Ken Whiton
*-* In Article <slrnhd278r.u...@compton.phx.az.us>,
*-* Moe Trin wrote
*-* About Re: Bad modem connection with fibreglass line
> On Sat, 10 Oct 2009, in the Usenet newsgroup comp.dcom.modems, in
> article <hapgf...@enews1.newsguy.com>, Ken Whiton wrote:
>> *-* Moe Trin wrote
[ ... ]
>>> That sounds like a local program.
>> It was, WNAC-TV, Boston
> Well, hello from WNHC-TV in New Haven.
I was born a few miles east of there, in New Bedford, Mass., and
lived in Fairhaven, Mass. for nine years before moving to New
Hampshire. Small world, isn't it? ;-)
>>> but there were some innovators like Ernie Kovacs
[ ... ]
>>> and Stan Freberg
>> I remember watching "Time for Beanie".
> Stan was so much more famous for his advertisements ("who put those
> eight great tomatoes in that itty-bitty can") and records - one
> radio station here _still_ plays "Green Christmas" at least once
> between Thanksgiving and Christmas, and someone will mention "He
> ruined the ending... one of the loveliest parts"
I don't have that one, but I do have three other of his records
in my mp3 collection, "St George And The Dragonet", "Wun'erful,
Wun'erful", and "The Old Payola Roll Blues".
>> If you're interested in some more of this reminiscing, there's an
>> extended thread (in which I participated) from about a year and a
>> half ago at
> It's great to see stuff from Blinky
I don't know if you know it or not, but he is unfortunately no
longer with us.
http://groups.google.com/group/mozilla.general/browse_thread/thread/a270f18cfc91fce3
:-(
> - funny thing is I remember just
> about every star mentioned. I also remember the dancing pack of Old
> Gold cigarettes, later joined by the dancing match-box. And now the
> theme song from the Morey Amsterdam show is running through my
> brain.
:-D
Moe Trin
<op.u1l7h...@acer250.gateway.2wire.net>, tlvp wrote:
>Moe Trin <ibup...@painkiller.example.tld> wrote:
>> Well, that's true - but what are you connecting them to? None of
>> the last three computers I've bought came with a parallel port, and
>> serial printers aren't all that common.
>Connecting to the last notebooks (XP units, both) that *did* have one.
>Agreed, the two most recent boxes don't have one (and that's a great
>annoyance!).
Even with desktops, the needed adapter cards are not as common as they
were early on. Mentioned Thursday, the interfaces became part of the
motherboard chipset, and that pretty much killed off the after market
adaptor cards. For laptops/notebook, I guess it was the perceived
market that those who have one will also have a desktop (with access
to a printer of some kind), and some convenient means of transferring
the file between them.
>> "King Camp Gillette" developed the concept of (virtually) giving
>> away the razor, and making his fortune selling the razor blades.
>> The companies building "home" printers are following suit. And the
>> paper isn't that cheap either.
>At least you can get a carton (10 reams) of paper from Staples
>by submitting -- in a good week -- one $30 Rewards voucher,
>earned via turning in 10 empty toner carts :-) . Probably likewise
> from OfficeMax, OfficeDepot, others ... .
Paper isn't perishable, and we tend to buy it in bulk when it's on
sale. I've still got the best part of a case of 11 x 17 fan-fold,
perhaps three of 9 x 11, and I don't know how much of the stuff for
the LJs and DJs. The fan-fold is probably enough to last, especially
given the limited use they're getting.
Old guy
Moe Trin
<has0e...@enews6.newsguy.com>, Ken Whiton wrote:
i
>*-* Moe Trin wrote
>> Well, hello from WNHC-TV in New Haven.
>
> I was born a few miles east of there, in New Bedford, Mass., and
>lived in Fairhaven, Mass. for nine years before moving to New
>Hampshire. Small world, isn't it? ;-)
I did a lot of traveling - born in a Philadelphia suburb, moved to New
Jersey, then to Wallingford CT (about 10 miles NNE of New Haven), then
to Tampa, FL, back to Phillie, then to Middlebury, Wolcott and
Waterbury in central Connecticut. Once I left school, I REALLY
started traveling - working in Europe, Central/South America and the
Far East. I didn't return to the US until the late 1970s, when I
started working in California.
>> Stan was so much more famous for his advertisements ("who put those
>> eight great tomatoes in that itty-bitty can") and records - one
>> radio station here _still_ plays "Green Christmas" at least once
>> between Thanksgiving and Christmas, and someone will mention "He
>> ruined the ending... one of the loveliest parts"
> I don't have that one,
Ah... "He ruined the ending" - That was first used on "Yellow Rose of
Texas" (the snare drummer) and re-used in "The Great Pretender" (the
pianist).
>but I do have three other of his records in my mp3 collection, "St
>George And The Dragonet"
"That's one of those new 38 caliber swords, ina-it" "That's about the
size of it."
>"Wun'erful, Wun'erful", and "The Old Payola Roll Blues".
"Rhino Records" had a boxed set of four CDs and a video tape, one of
the CDs containing a lot of the radio commercials - the tape having
TV commercials. I stupidly gave the set to my sister, without getting
a copy for myself. There is also a dual CD of his "History of the
"United States Of America (with the original cast)" which manages to
enrage some of my Native American friends ("Take an Indian to Lunch").
Some people don't realize the Jud Conlon singers who often backed Stan
were heard on Spike Jones records.
>> It's great to see stuff from Blinky
> I don't know if you know it or not, but he is unfortunately no
>longer with us.
"Atherosclerotic Cardiovascular Disease" is what was reported in
rec.food.cooking,alt.fan.cecil-adams. Fits the reported symptoms.
That _should_ have easy to detect in advance if he was seeing a doctor
with any regularity. (I'm about ten years older than he, and you can
tell you're getting old when you have *ologists you're seeing on a
regular basis.)
>> And now the theme song from the Morey Amsterdam show is running
>> through my brain.
> :-D
Yuk a puc...
Old guy
Philipp Post
At my recent visit in the nearest electronic store I could still get
PCI cards for parallel and serial ports. The annoyance comes with the
passing of the PS/2 port for mice and keyboard. I recently got a 6
years old desktop as a gift, but without any additional equipment. Now
try to get a new keyboard and mice with PS/2 as you would not like to
be without keyboard untill the OS starts up! Not that easy today, but
I finally got them from Amazon. Although I learned 10-finger-typing I
could not yet arrive at using up the USB speed of such a new keyboard.
Most likely the hardware manufacturers are also not much interested in
backwards compatibility as this could mean they would be selling less.
brgds
Philipp Post
Moe Trin
<47f6f07a-01ba-49f9...@e8g2000yqo.googlegroups.com>,
Philipp Post wrote:
NOTE: Posting from groups.google.com (or some web-forums) dramatically
reduces the chance of your post being seen. Find a real news server.
>> Even with desktops, the needed adapter cards are not as common as
>> they were early on. Mentioned Thursday, the interfaces became part
>> of the motherboard chipset, and that pretty much killed off the
>> after market adaptor cards.
>At my recent visit in the nearest electronic store I could still get
>PCI cards for parallel and serial ports.
I didn't say they don't exist - merely that they are not very common.
If you look at the chips on such cards, what are the 'date codes'
(when were the devices manufactured)?
>The annoyance comes with the passing of the PS/2 port for mice and
>keyboard.
I don't know why you are complaining - I've still got several systems
in use with the original IBM PC-AT style keyboard connectors, and
there is one system with a Logitech Bus Mouse (a 386DX-40).
>I recently got a 6 years old desktop as a gift, but without any
>additional equipment. Now try to get a new keyboard and mice with
>PS/2 as you would not like to be without keyboard untill the OS
>starts up!
Your headers suggest some version of Windows - perhaps XP. All but
three of the systems at home are at least ten years old (firewall is
the remains of a 386SX-16 laptop, one server is a 486DX266 VESA,
another is an original Pentium 133. They're all running some version
of Linux - a UNIX look-alike O/S. Modern distributions typically
want a P-II and 128 Megs of RAM or better, but it is possible to find
versions that will operate on a i80386SX with four Megs of RAM (they
won't do very much, but hey).
>Not that easy today, but I finally got them from Amazon.
I _think_ I've got several PS/2 keyboards - I know I've got two PC-AT
keyboards in the garage. Mice... I think I've got two PS/2 versions,
but there is a "major" computer retailer locally and they still have
serial mice for sale. New, but no idea how long ago they were made.
>Although I learned 10-finger-typing I could not yet arrive at using
>up the USB speed of such a new keyboard.
IBM originally set the keyboard repeat rate (press and hold a key, and
in a moment it will show up as a string of repeated characters) at
10.9 characters per second. 10.9 CPS is normally assumed to be about
109 "words" per minute. There may be a few typists who are that fast,
but certainly not me. The standard PC keyboard uses at most three
bytes to send a character, so 330 bits/second is "fast enough".
>Most likely the hardware manufacturers are also not much interested in
>backwards compatibility as this could mean they would be selling less.
"Planned Obsolescence" - the reason we were buying a new car every
three years (in the 1950s). Manufacturers would like it if they
could get a bit more for their systems - recall that the original
"list" price for a genuine IBM PC-XT (5160086) with 256K, a (full
height) double sided (360k) floppy and 10 Meg hard drive was US$2895
and that didn't include the monochrome display adapter and display
(US$435 more if bought from IBM). Then those darn copy-cats at Compaq
and Everex (among _many_ others) started making "cheap" copies, and
the bottom fell out on prices. My US$59 cell phone has more computing
power than my _third_ computer (80286-6 with 1.6 Megs of RAM).
Old guy