PC ISDN cards? Ethernet/ISDN Bridges?
Christian Marcotte
Hi!
I`m very new to the world of ISDN and hope you can guide me with some
information on existing products and solutions.
I want to experience with some ISDN work at home solutions.
ISDN seems to be the kind of bandwith we'd want to do X-windows over
the line (64K ok, 128 perfect!).
So far, I've heard from Gandalf who has an ethernet/isdn bridge for the
small (arrrg!) amount of $4100 CDN. You need one at home and one at
work. You can also use a larger unit at work that will take in a PRI
and handle multiple users. This solution has a hefty price.
Ideally we would like to run NCD X terminals from home connected to ethernet.
The NCD serial port is limited to 38.4K (not enough). For this solution we
would need an ethernet/isdn bride. Who makes those? How much $$$ are they?
An alternate solution (not as good) is to use a PC running pcXRemote from NCD.
Since I've only been looking at ISDN for a short period of time I only heard
about the WaveRunner card from IBM. What other cards are there for PCs.
How are they going to run with PcXRemote (Under Widows-3.1). Can any of
these cards handle the two B channels? Are they all compatible with the
national ISDN-1 (DMS-100)? What's the cost?
If we went with a PC solution it would be interesting to have the ability
to run Linux or BSD386 (or BSDI386) with ppp over ISDN. Do any of those
PC cards come with drivers for those OS (wishful thinking here). Do they
provide a good documentation and development kit for us to write our own
linux/BSD386 drivers?
I also read about some guy in Germany who was going to try making a cheap
ethernet/ISDN bridge using a 386, and ISDN card and ethernet card. It
would seem that the ISDN or ethernet card comes with the software to make
such a beast. Anyone knows if this is achievable with one of the US
PC ISDN card vendors ??
Finally, What do I connect all this to at work???
Are there some ISDN terminal servers or SBUS cards with software I can
run on a sparc with SunOS4.x ?
Thanks in advance for the info,
-- Scoob
--
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Christian Marcotte Bell-Northern Research
sc...@bnr.ca 3500 Carling Ave
Telephone: (613) 763-2782 Nepean, Ont., Canada K1Y 4H7
Aled Morris
>Ideally we would like to run NCD X terminals from home connected to ethernet.
>The NCD serial port is limited to 38.4K (not enough). For this solution we
>would need an ethernet/isdn bride. Who makes those? How much $$$ are they?
Or plug a PCMCIA ISDN adapator into your NCD and connect it directly
to the ISDN line.
OK - you can't do that today, but you need to suggest to NCD that this
is what you want to do; they are responsive to customer needs (and
hence, if they don't hear the demand it won't get done).
In the short term you could look at NCD's Xremote offering for running
X on your serial line. It works (even at 9600 baud). Should be cool
at 38k4 on an ISDN. You wouldn't require anything fancy to implement
this - most TA's will do async 38k4, you just need a pair hooked up
like analogue modems (i.e. the other to the serial port on your Sun in
the office).
Aled
--
al...@relay-europe.ps.net | tel +44 81 476 2212
Perot Systems Europe Ltd. | fax +44 81 476 2419
Jim Zeitlin
Christian Marcotte <sc...@bnr.ca> wrote:
>
> Finally, What do I connect all this to at work???
> Are there some ISDN terminal servers or SBUS cards with software I can
> run on a sparc with SunOS4.x ?
Ascend Communications manufactures the MAX access server that is
designed as a dial-in ISDN hub for these kinds of applications. We also
have equipment appropriate for the remote end of the connection. For more
information contact me or our inquiry line ( in...@ascend.com or
1 800 272 3634 ).
--
Jim Zeitlin
Ascend Communications
510 814 2375
jzei...@ascend.com
en...@enge.almaden.ibm.com
complete. Try sending mail to in...@combinet.com
Roy Engehausen
en...@almaden.ibm.com
Michael Philip Kaufman
>I want to experience with some ISDN work at home solutions.
>ISDN seems to be the kind of bandwith we'd want to do X-windows over
>the line (64K ok, 128 perfect!).
>So far, I've heard from Gandalf who has an ethernet/isdn bridge for the
>small (arrrg!) amount of $4100 CDN. You need one at home and one at
>work. You can also use a larger unit at work that will take in a PRI
>and handle multiple users. This solution has a hefty price.
Well, this is exactly what I'm doing, too. I'm using a Combinet Everyware
150 (a.k.a. the CB-150). This is an ISDN Ethernet Bridge which lists for
about $995, and supports both B-Channel bridging (for 128Kb) AND 4:1 data
compression (for total throughput approaching 512Kb!). We're using a
CB-400 on the corporate side, which supports >1 IP address on its LAN-end,
but still services only one BRI. (These can be ganged together into hunt
groups.) I have to say...it's pretty incredible -- near-local network
performance!
With the CB-150, you'll also need a separate NT-1. (I got mine for $180,
after getting prices -- for the EXACT SAME DEVICE -- as high as $450!)
Now, I just saw an announcement in this week's InfoWorld that Combinet
will be shipping a new unit, called the CB-160, for about $1195, which is
nothing more than a CB-150 with a built-in NT-1.
I suggest you contact Steve McGee at Combinet (408 522 9168), and tell him
I sent you...
>An alternate solution (not as good) is to use a PC running pcXRemote from NCD.
>Since I've only been looking at ISDN for a short period of time I only heard
>about the WaveRunner card from IBM. What other cards are there for PCs.
>How are they going to run with PcXRemote (Under Widows-3.1). Can any of
>these cards handle the two B channels? Are they all compatible with the
>national ISDN-1 (DMS-100)? What's the cost?
>If we went with a PC solution it would be interesting to have the ability
>to run Linux or BSD386 (or BSDI386) with ppp over ISDN. Do any of those
>PC cards come with drivers for those OS (wishful thinking here). Do they
>provide a good documentation and development kit for us to write our own
>linux/BSD386 drivers?
>I also read about some guy in Germany who was going to try making a cheap
>ethernet/ISDN bridge using a 386, and ISDN card and ethernet card. It
>would seem that the ISDN or ethernet card comes with the software to make
>such a beast. Anyone knows if this is achievable with one of the US
>PC ISDN card vendors ??
So far, I'm running NDIS multiprotocol with Banyan VINES IP and TCP/IP
(courtesy of FTP Software's PCTCP); I've just finished upgrading my PC in
anticipation of setting-up for X Windows. Our telecomm guy evaluated a
number of X-for-PC packages, and spec'd XVision from VisionWare (which
I'll be installing next week). He didn't like the NCD pcXRemote software
(I don't know why, but hope to find out, because I instinctively felt the
NCD name was a good sign...).
I decided, early on, that an internal PC card, like the WaveRunner or the
ones from Digiboard, wasn't the way for me to go PRECISELY because of my
mutliprotocol needs, and my desire to avoid any dependencies on
card-specific drivers. (I'm also running both DOS/Windows and NT, so that
would make it even worse.) With an Ethernet Bridge, all you need is
Ethernet support. NOTHING on my PC is even AWARE of the ISDN line; I just
have a 3Com Etherlink 16 card in my machine, and everthing thinks it's on
a local network. Makes life MUCH simpler...
>Finally, What do I connect all this to at work???
>Are there some ISDN terminal servers or SBUS cards with software I can
>run on a sparc with SunOS4.x ?
Like I said, we use a CB-400 on the corporate-LAN side. It just plugs
right into the Ethernet, end-of-story. Of course, SPARCstation10s now
come with integrated ISDN support, so maybe this is a workable solution
for you. I didn't pursue it (again, the multiprotocol thing), but would
be very interested to hear anything you might learn about it.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Michael Philip Kaufman | Mail: m...@panix.com, m...@ml.com
Software Design/Consulting | CompuServe: 71052,3715
28 East 10th Street Suite 4H | Phone: 212 529 5592
New York, NY 10003-6210 | Fax: 212 529 5001
Randolph A. Sisto
>
>I`m very new to the world of ISDN and hope you can guide me with some
>information on existing products and solutions.
>
>I want to experience with some ISDN work at home solutions.
>ISDN seems to be the kind of bandwith we'd want to do X-windows over
>the line (64K ok, 128 perfect!).
>
>So far, I've heard from Gandalf who has an ethernet/isdn bridge for the
>small (arrrg!) amount of $4100 CDN. You need one at home and one at
>work. You can also use a larger unit at work that will take in a PRI
>and handle multiple users. This solution has a hefty price.
>
>Ideally we would like to run NCD X terminals from home connected to ethernet.
>The NCD serial port is limited to 38.4K (not enough). For this solution we
>would need an ethernet/isdn bride. Who makes those? How much $$$ are they?
Check out the Combinet CB160 or CB150 which start at $990 US.
>
>An alternate solution (not as good) is to use a PC running pcXRemote from NCD.
>Since I've only been looking at ISDN for a short period of time I only heard
>about the WaveRunner card from IBM. What other cards are there for PCs.
>How are they going to run with PcXRemote (Under Widows-3.1). Can any of
>these cards handle the two B channels? Are they all compatible with the
>national ISDN-1 (DMS-100)? What's the cost?
You may also want to look at the Access Works Quick Access (formerly the
Teleos PC TA). It does both B channels and you can run PCTCP or Chameleon
software with it. It has a POTS jack for your phone, fax, or modem but
is not as cheap as the WaveRunner.
>
>If we went with a PC solution it would be interesting to have the ability
>to run Linux or BSD386 (or BSDI386) with ppp over ISDN. Do any of those
>PC cards come with drivers for those OS (wishful thinking here). Do they
>provide a good documentation and development kit for us to write our own
>linux/BSD386 drivers?
>
>I also read about some guy in Germany who was going to try making a cheap
>ethernet/ISDN bridge using a 386, and ISDN card and ethernet card. It
>would seem that the ISDN or ethernet card comes with the software to make
>such a beast. Anyone knows if this is achievable with one of the US
>PC ISDN card vendors ??
>
>Finally, What do I connect all this to at work???
>Are there some ISDN terminal servers or SBUS cards with software I can
>run on a sparc with SunOS4.x ?
The Network Express NE ISDN InterHub can support up to 48 remote devices
simultaneously and you have your choice of multiple BRI's or a couple
PRI's. It supports various protocols so you can have a mixed population
of Combinet bridges, IBM WaveRunner's, Access Works cards, Sun
Microsystems or Silicon Graphics workstations at the remote locations.
The cost is typically less than $500 per B channel and rental systems
are available.
For more details feel free to email me at ran...@nei.com.
>
>Thanks in advance for the info,
>-- Scoob
>
>--
>---------------------------------------------------------------------------
>Christian Marcotte Bell-Northern Research
>sc...@bnr.ca 3500 Carling Ave
>Telephone: (613) 763-2782 Nepean, Ont., Canada K1Y 4H7
--
Randy Sisto ran...@nei.com
___________________________________________________________________________
Network Express Incorporated, Phone: (313) 761-5005, Fax: (313) 995-1114
Christian Weisgerber
> If we went with a PC solution it would be interesting to have the ability
> to run Linux or BSD386 (or BSDI386) with ppp over ISDN. Do any of those
> PC cards come with drivers for those OS (wishful thinking here). Do they
> provide a good documentation and development kit for us to write our own
> linux/BSD386 drivers?
(Can't speak for 386BSD or BSD/386. Ask in...@bsdi.com about the latter.)
As far as I can tell there is *no* commercial support for Linux. At
CeBIT, the personnel at the booths of companies selling ISDN products
were always quick to point out that they don't support Linux. (Even
though I didn't bother to ask -- must be my looks ;-)
At last year's CeBIT I was plainly told by every company I asked that
they would not provide any developer information. I've heard this
attitude has somewhat changed lately but I didn't check anymore.
At least reverse-engineering the low-end "Siemens ISAC-S/HSCX"-type
passive cards shouldn't be too difficult. Data books for the chips can
be ordered from Siemens at minimal cost. (I paid DEM 10 each, I think.)
Matthias Urlichs <url...@smurf.noris.de> has released a heavily patched
Linux kernel that features an alpha-ISDN-driver. Current limitations:
only supports IP over ISDN (i.e. no tty's), only Teles.S0 passive card,
only German 1TR6. It's available from ftp.ira.uka.de, somewhere under
linux/netbsd or such.
> I also read about some guy in Germany who was going to try making a cheap
> ethernet/ISDN bridge using a 386, and ISDN card and ethernet card. It
> would seem that the ISDN or ethernet card comes with the software to make
> such a beast.
For people who can read German: there is an 1800 line de-isdn-tcp-ip FAQ
(collected wisdom from de.comm.isdn) available. Should be at every
news.answers archive; I can also mail it out to anybody interested.
Quite some people are running such a PC bridge (rather a router,
usually) successfully. I'm currently in the process of setting one up,
well, waiting for the router software to arrive to be exact ;-)
What do you need?
- A PC case with power supply, slimline should suffice.
- A 386-type motherboard, a 386SX-16 is sufficient.
(Some of the free software packages might work with a 286.)
- 1MB RAM
- MS-DOS 5.0.
- An ethernet card with a "Clarkson" packet driver.
- Something to boot off. A floppy drive will do. An IP boot rom for the
ethernet card is a more elegant and more expensive solution.
- An ISDN card with either
a packet driver or
a CAPI driver plus CAPI-to-packet interface driver.
- Bridge/Router software.
If you care for a status display:
- An MDA card and a monochrome monitor. Better works too, of course.
I.e. if you've worked with PCs for a couple of years you probably have
most of the non-ISDN-specific parts still floating around. Or you can
scrape some up from friends etc.
Functional diagram:
Bridging/Routing
/ Software \
/ \
/ \
CAPI-to-packet packet driver
driver |
| |
CAPI driver |
| |
<remote> == ... ==ISDN== --Ethernet-- ... -- your LAN
Even the cheapest ISDN cards come with a DOS/Win CAPI driver over here.
For the CAPI-to-packet as well as the Bridging/Routing packages there
are various possibilities:
CAPI-to-packet:
- PAPI 0.20, free
- ISPA 1.7, free
- ISDNPKT, commercial, INS/CLS
Bridging:
- PCbridge, free
Routing:
- KA9Q, free
- PCroute, free
- IPSWITCH, commercial, INS/CLS
The ISDNPKT/IPSWITCH package is about DEM 500. Mail in...@ins.de for
details. What I've seen/read so far looked well enough for me to order
the package. It's got nice router functionality, you can filter packets
according to a wide range of parameters, it has accounting, and logging
over the net via syslog.
Those solutions *should* work independently from the local ISDN dialect,
as all D-channel talking is handled in the CAPI/packet driver, assuming
there is such a driver available for your ISDN dialect.
> Anyone knows if this is achievable with one of the US PC ISDN card
> vendors ??
I guess CAPI, as a German standard, isn't all that popular in North
America. If the ISDN card comes directly with a packet driver, it
should work out fine.
At CeBIT the guy at the diehl booth proudly proclaimed that I would be
able to use their ISDN cards everywhere, that they have drivers for
about all ISDN dialects including North America, so I assume they sell
in the U.S./Canada, too. Diehl certainly has a CAPI, I think he
mentioned a packet driver too, and their DIVA improved passive card
with DSP seems rather interesting.
diehl isdn GmbH
Bahnhofstrasse 63
D-71229 Leonberg
Germany
Tel: +49 7152 9329-0
Fax: +49 7152 9392-99
There's also diehl.de on the net, you might want to try info@...,
sales@..., support@... etc.
> Finally, What do I connect all this to at work???
One ISDN-PC-Router at home, one at work.
Also, if you have a more "professional" solution at work that claims to
be non-proprietary, there will probably be a way to make them
interoperate. (There are dozens of ways to run IP over ISDN...)
> Are there some ISDN terminal servers
What would that be?
> or SBUS cards with software I can run on a sparc with SunOS4.x ?
Check with
BinTec Computersysteme
Willstaetter Strasse 30
D-90449 Nuernberg
Germany
Tel: +49 911 99675 0
Fax: +49 911 6880725
Note that BinTec's products aren't exactly cheap. Also, I don't know
whether they serve the North American market.
--
Christian 'naddy' Weisgerber, Germany na...@mips.ruessel.sub.org
Scott Colwell
>In article <ALEDM.94M...@icarus.gb.ec.ps.net> al...@relay-europe.ps.net (Aled Morris) writes:
>>>Ideally we would like to run NCD X terminals from home connected to ethernet.
>>>The NCD serial port is limited to 38.4K (not enough). For this solution we
>>>would need an ethernet/isdn bride. Who makes those? How much $$$ are they?
>>Or plug a PCMCIA ISDN adapator into your NCD and connect it directly
>>to the ISDN line.
>I don't know whether they're available in your part of the world, but Labtam
>here in Oz have been advertising an X terminal with built-in ISDN dial-up
>(PPP, 1 B channel).
It is able to use 1 or 2 B channels actually. If the device at the other
end of the 2 B channels supports it, (e.g. Cisco), you can load share across
the two B channels. It also can act as a TCP/IP router between ISDN and
ethernet.
--
Scott Colwell
net: sc...@labtam.labtam.oz.au Labtam Australia Pty. Ltd.
phone: +61 3 587 1444 41 Malcolm Rd., Braeside
fax: +61 3 580 5581 Melbourne, Australia 3195
Alan Cox
>sc...@bnr.ca (Christian Marcotte) writes:
>
>> If we went with a PC solution it would be interesting to have the ability
>> to run Linux or BSD386 (or BSDI386) with ppp over ISDN. Do any of those
>> PC cards come with drivers for those OS (wishful thinking here). Do they
>> provide a good documentation and development kit for us to write our own
>> linux/BSD386 drivers?
>
>(Can't speak for 386BSD or BSD/386. Ask in...@bsdi.com about the latter.)
>As far as I can tell there is *no* commercial support for Linux. At
>CeBIT, the personnel at the booths of companies selling ISDN products
>were always quick to point out that they don't support Linux. (Even
>though I didn't bother to ask -- must be my looks ;-)
>
There are four ways of doing ISDN with Linux
1. Ulrichs ISDN patches + card
2. Alpha test driver for one other ISDN card (forget maker - patches on
sunsite)
3. Use a seperate ISDN bridge-router on ethernet. Some of these are great.
[Declaration of less than tenuous connection with vendor]
We use a Sonix arpeggio bridge here which talks to other arpeggio bridges
doing compression, dial on demand and idling. It sits on the ethernet and
couldn't care what OS you run.
4. The Sonix Volante PC card has its own fancy interface which you'd wouldn't
reverse engineer in a hurry but a) I'm trying to persuade people its worth
porting to (anyone want to order 100 of the cards for Linux ?)
b) It has a (genuine) 16550A uart on it so you can run 64Kbit Linux slip
or ppp over it, and it takes hayes commands. HDLC framing is done automatically
as I understand that bit so you don't need to worry about it.
Alan