connecting Coax to 10 Base T network -- cheap way?
Russell Schulz
(I'm not sure if this is Ethernet-specific, but I think it is.)
We had an existing 10-Base-2 network, and we've moved to 10-Base-T.
Some of our cards have _only_ the coax adapter.
Is there any cheap way to re-use these cards? We've tried a few
Coax/RJ45 baluns which were supposed to work, but they have all
failed (they connected wires 4,5 and 3,6, but never 1,2 and 3,6
like we're told we need for Ethernet over Twisted Pair).
Please CC: me on any posted replies. Thanks.
--
Russell...@imsi.ab.ca Intelligent Marketing Systems Inc.
Leslie Mikesell
In article <961219.201252.9z0....@imsi.ab.ca>,
Russell Schulz <Russell...@imsi.ab.ca> wrote:
> (I'm not sure if this is Ethernet-specific, but I think it is.)
>
>We had an existing 10-Base-2 network, and we've moved to 10-Base-T.
>Some of our cards have _only_ the coax adapter.
>
>Is there any cheap way to re-use these cards? We've tried a few
>Coax/RJ45 baluns which were supposed to work, but they have all
>failed (they connected wires 4,5 and 3,6, but never 1,2 and 3,6
>like we're told we need for Ethernet over Twisted Pair).
You probably won't find anything cheaper than a small 10BT hub.
I've seen some in the $70 neighborhood with a BNC port. If
you have several machines in one room to connect via coax or
need the extra 10BT ports they might be worthwhile.
Les Mikesell
l...@mcs.com
Mike O'Donnell
> (I'm not sure if this is Ethernet-specific, but I think it is.)
>
>We had an existing 10-Base-2 network, and we've moved to 10-Base-T.
>Some of our cards have _only_ the coax adapter.
>
>Is there any cheap way to re-use these cards? We've tried a few
>Coax/RJ45 baluns which were supposed to work, but they have all
>failed (they connected wires 4,5 and 3,6, but never 1,2 and 3,6
>like we're told we need for Ethernet over Twisted Pair).
>
>Please CC: me on any posted replies. Thanks.
>--
>Russell...@imsi.ab.ca Intelligent Marketing Systems Inc.
Do the cards have the 15 pin D style "AUI" connector? If so, you can
get a mini transceiver for about $25. If not, there's not really any
easy, inexpensive way to use convert them. I've seen "media
converters" to convert coax to 10baseT, but they run about $120+.
One thing that may work is to put a 10baseT hub that has a 10base2
backbone connector. As long as you've not exceeded the maximum
repeaters for you system, you could link the 10base2 stuff with a coax
segment and attach it to the "backbone" connector on the hub. 8 port
10baseT w/1BNC run about $110.
Probably the best way to to just replace the cards with 10baseT cards.
We're also in the situation of converting from coax to UTP, but our
10base2 cards all have the AUI connector, so we're using mini
transceivers, and replacing the cards as we can get new ones.
L. F. Sheldon, Jr.
On Thu, 19 Dec 1996, Russell Schulz wrote:
> We had an existing 10-Base-2 network, and we've moved to 10-Base-T.
> Some of our cards have _only_ the coax adapter.
>
> Is there any cheap way to re-use these cards? We've tried a few
> Coax/RJ45 baluns which were supposed to work, but they have all
> failed (they connected wires 4,5 and 3,6, but never 1,2 and 3,6
> like we're told we need for Ethernet over Twisted Pair).
I don't see how a balun would work here--I think the signalling
is entirely different on the wire--10baseT vs. 10base2. But we _are_
off the edge of where I think I know what I am talking about.
But my believe is that you will need to use "media converters"--and a
cost of about 2X the price of new NIC's.
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William W. Webb
Russell Schulz wrote:
>
> (I'm not sure if this is Ethernet-specific, but I think it is.)
>
> Some of our cards have _only_ the coax adapter.
>
> Is there any cheap way to re-use these cards?
<snip>
They make great bookmarks!
jj
In article <961219.201252.9z0....@imsi.ab.ca>,
Russell...@imsi.ab.ca says...
>
> (I'm not sure if this is Ethernet-specific, but I think it is.)
>
>We had an existing 10-Base-2 network, and we've moved to 10-Base-T.
>Some of our cards have _only_ the coax adapter.
>
>Coax/RJ45 baluns which were supposed to work, but they have all
>failed (they connected wires 4,5 and 3,6, but never 1,2 and 3,6
>like we're told we need for Ethernet over Twisted Pair).
>
>--
>Russell...@imsi.ab.ca Intelligent Marketing Systems Inc.
You can do that, it just won't work :-)
The signalling between physical layers for 10base2/5 and 10baseT are
very different (10baseT precompenstation and link Integrity to name
just two).
Best way is to toss the old coax cards (you can pick up 10BT cards for
as little as 20 bucks today).
Short of that, "media converters" (basically 2 port repeaters - coax and
10BT port). Allied Telesys and others make them. I think you'll find them
more expensive than new cards though ....
Don Ritchie
It's not a balun that you need.... THAT IS THE WRONG DEVICE FOR YOUR APP.
What you need is a 10BaseT transcever, but what you will pay for a
transcever from 10Base2 to 10BaseT is more then you can buy 10BaseT cards
now a days. Your best bet is to replace the cards.
FYI a balun just "converts" a wire to look like a peice of coax, it does
nothing to convert the signeling.
Don
--
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Robert R. Beliveau
William W. Webb wrote:
>
> Russell Schulz wrote:
> >
> > (I'm not sure if this is Ethernet-specific, but I think it is.)
> >
> > We had an existing 10-Base-2 network, and we've moved to 10-Base-T.
> > Some of our cards have _only_ the coax adapter.
> >
> > Is there any cheap way to re-use these cards?
>
>
> They make great bookmarks!
Buy a cheap ($100) hub with both coax and UTP post. Usually, you get
one coax port and 4 or 8 utp ports. These are available everywhere.
Don't forget the 4 repeater rule though!!
Bob Beliveau
Network General
Kevin Lim
Russell Schulz wrote:
>
> (I'm not sure if this is Ethernet-specific, but I think it is.)
>
> We had an existing 10-Base-2 network, and we've moved to 10-Base-T.
> Some of our cards have _only_ the coax adapter.
>
> Coax/RJ45 baluns which were supposed to work, but they have all
> failed (they connected wires 4,5 and 3,6, but never 1,2 and 3,6
> like we're told we need for Ethernet over Twisted Pair).
>
> Please CC: me on any posted replies. Thanks.
> --
> Russell...@imsi.ab.ca Intelligent Marketing Systems Inc.
My company is in the same situation as yours. What we are going to do
is:
First install all 10-base-2 adapters to the computers in a same room,
then connect these
computers via a coxial cable and then to either a coaxial transciever at
the hub
or a router.
computers(with 10base2 adapters --> coaxial transiever --> hub
or
computers(with 10base2 adapters --> router --> hub
(if these computers are far away from the hub)
By this way we don't need to spend money on new adapters,faceplates
and patch cords
for these computers.And installing all the old adapters to the
computers in a same room will make the management job for this
10base2 segment easier.
Kevin Lim
Kevin Lim
jjl
Russell Schulz <Russell...@imsi.ab.ca> wrote in article
<961219.201252.9z0....@imsi.ab.ca>...
M. Christopher Davies
In article <01bbf13c$89ef1720$e1038ea1@lim>, jjl <j...@pc.jaring.my> wrote:
>
>
>Russell Schulz <Russell...@imsi.ab.ca> wrote in article
><961219.201252.9z0....@imsi.ab.ca>...
>> (I'm not sure if this is Ethernet-specific, but I think it is.)
>>
>> We had an existing 10-Base-2 network, and we've moved to 10-Base-T.
>> Some of our cards have _only_ the coax adapter.
>>
>> Is there any cheap way to re-use these cards? We've tried a few
A hub that has both Coax BNC and 10 Base T will do the trick to bridge
these networks fairly inexpensively. $150 for a Microdyne hub and you're
set. (Not considering the network design issues that will be introduced
with this solution)
--
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Chris Davies Hi-Cap Internet/Intranet Office: 202-541-9000
Allied Telecom Group FAX: 202-541-9050 24x7 Direct: 202-541-9006
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Russell Schulz
I wrote:
> We had an existing 10-Base-2 network, and we've moved to 10-Base-T.
> Some of our cards have _only_ the coax adapter.
First of all, I shouldn't have said `only' -- I meant they had the
coax but not the twisted-pair. Most of them have the AUI. I did
see one post where someone mentioned a device that will hang off an
AUI, so I will also investigate that, but if that doesn't work we
will just get rid of the cards (or start up a segregated coax
network in another office).
Thanks to the people who responded by mail (I won't include their
addresses here, to foil mail spammers).
A summary:
---cut-here---
From: Craig Wiesner
Organization: WKMN Training
Cheap - no. There are adapters for about $200.00 that Black Box sells
that do a good job of converting 10BASE-2 to 10BASE-T. You can visit
their web site at www.blackbox.com
As I told someone else recently, however, for $49.00 you can get 10BASE-T
cards and eliminate the problem [...]
---cut-here---
From: David Lesher
Organization: NRK Clinic for habitual NetNews Abusers - Beltway Annex
Baluns will NOT work. You can interconnect with expensive
2-T adapters, or cheaper [~$60] small hubs with a coax port.
---cut-here---
From: Leslie Mikesell
Organization: /usr/lib/news/organi[sz]ation
You probably won't find anything cheaper than a small 10BT hub.
I've seen some in the $70 neighborhood with a BNC port. If
you have several machines in one room to connect via coax or
need the extra 10BT ports they might be worthwhile.
---cut-here---
From: Robert Bonomi
Organization: EE/CS Department, Northwestern University, Evanston, IL.
short answer: No.
your alternatives are:
1) replace the cards
2) if there are a number of such machines in close proximity,
get a cheap hub with a 10base2 _uplink_ port, and wire all the
10base2 machines together, and to that. then use one of the
10baseT ports (with a _cross-over_ cable) to connect to your
regular 10baseT wiring.
---cut-here---
From: Andrew J. Zemel
Organization: WorldComm Corporation
There do not seem to be any cheep 10base2 hubs with 10baseT (or TX)
uplinks. Aside from that, all I can suggest is either replace the
NICs (which am sure you knew about) or try one more baulen. BNC to
10baseT pins 3,4. I have a couple that I am selling for $10.00 each.
---cut-here---
From: Vesa Halkka
Organization: University of Helsinki
If have a place which has 10BaseT net, but some old devices need
10Base2 we use mini-repeaters. For example Allied Telesyn 820TRS.
It has 8 10BaseT ports and an AUI/10Base2 port. It has been the
cheapest working solution, and the devices are also useful in a
a 10BaseT -only wiring when the 10Base2 cards go away.
---cut-here---
From: Bill C
I think Larry is right. The way to go is new cards and offer your old
ones for sale to ofset the cost of the new ones. You won't get much, but
you might as well get something.
---cut-here---
From: Kevin Lim
First install all 10-base-2 adapters to the computers in a same room,
then connect these computers via a coxial cable and then to either a
coaxial transciever at the hub or a router.
computers(with 10base2 adapters --> coaxial transiever --> hub
or
computers(with 10base2 adapters --> router --> hub
(if these computers are far away from the hub)
By this way we don't need to spend money on new adapters,faceplates and
patch cords for these computers. And installing all the old adapters to
the computers in a same room will make the management job for this
10base2 segment easier.
---cut-here---
John Lundgren
Russell Schulz (Russell...@imsi.ab.ca) wrote:
: (I'm not sure if this is Ethernet-specific, but I think it is.)
: We had an existing 10-Base-2 network, and we've moved to 10-Base-T.
: Some of our cards have _only_ the coax adapter.
: Is there any cheap way to re-use these cards? We've tried a few
: Coax/RJ45 baluns which were supposed to work, but they have all
: failed (they connected wires 4,5 and 3,6, but never 1,2 and 3,6
: like we're told we need for Ethernet over Twisted Pair).
: Please CC: me on any posted replies. Thanks.
: --
: Russell...@imsi.ab.ca Intelligent Marketing Systems Inc.
Whatever pairs the baluns use, they have to be used in pairs, one on each
end of the UTP. This is because all the do is change the coax to
balanced line, and both transmit and receive are on the same _single_
pair. You cannot plug a balun into a jack that is connected to a cat5 hub.
Cat5 hubs transmit and receive on different pairs.
It's silly but a cat5 to coax adapter costs $150, when you can get an
8-port hub with a coax jack in it for under $120. It will do the same
thing, and you get 7 more ports.
I have one installation that used the usual daisy-chained coax with
T-connectors and a terminator at the end. It wasn't all that reliable. I
had a spare coax 'fan-out' box, or multiconnect in 3Com lingo, so I put it
in place of the daisychained coax. Now each one of the workstations has
its own coax with a dedicated jack on the box. So if anything happens to
a single coax, only the workstation connected to that coax will go
offline. So the LAN has the same advantages as the star topology of a
cat5 hub.
And you can get fan-out boxes cheap because everyone is converting to
cat5. And if you want to extend it, you can get an AUI to cat5 adapter
(<$40) and put it on the fan-out box and connect to the rest of the world
with cat5 UTP. Or just connect with coax, like you used to. And it
saves having to buy new NICs. ;-)
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L. F. Sheldon, Jr.
On Tue, 24 Dec 1996, Russell Schulz wrote:
> I wrote:
>
> > We had an existing 10-Base-2 network, and we've moved to 10-Base-T.
> > Some of our cards have _only_ the coax adapter.
>
> First of all, I shouldn't have said `only' -- I meant they had the
> coax but not the twisted-pair. Most of them have the AUI. I did
> see one post where someone mentioned a device that will hang off an
> AUI, so I will also investigate that, but if that doesn't work we
> will just get rid of the cards (or start up a segregated coax
> network in another office).
There are a number of manufacturers who make "transceivers" that hang
on the AUI port--we have a few for 10base2, a zillion for 10baseT,
quite a few for fiber.
But the cost will be competitive with the price of a new card, I think.
L. F. Sheldon, Jr.
On Thu, 26 Dec 1996, L. F. Sheldon, Jr. (that's me!) wrote:
>
> On Tue, 24 Dec 1996, Russell Schulz wrote:
>
> > I wrote:
> >
> > > We had an existing 10-Base-2 network, and we've moved to 10-Base-T.
> > > Some of our cards have _only_ the coax adapter.
> >
> > First of all, I shouldn't have said `only' -- I meant they had the
> > coax but not the twisted-pair. Most of them have the AUI. I did
> > see one post where someone mentioned a device that will hang off an
> > AUI, so I will also investigate that, but if that doesn't work we
> > will just get rid of the cards (or start up a segregated coax
> > network in another office).
>
> There are a number of manufacturers who make "transceivers" that hang
> on the AUI port--we have a few for 10base2, a zillion for 10baseT,
> quite a few for fiber.
>
> But the cost will be competitive with the price of a new card, I think.
The piece of this that I didn't think of is this--buying transceivers
(which might cost as little as $25 US) means not having to open up
the machines to swap the NIC's, and not having to deal with possible
configuration hassles.
Include the cost of "hassle" in figuring relative costs.
I don't think there is any performance difference between the two
approaches.
Christopher D. Heer
In article
<Pine.HPP.3.95.961226...@bluejay.creighton.edu>, L. F.
Sheldon, Jr. (lshe...@creighton.edu) says...
>On Thu, 26 Dec 1996, L. F. Sheldon, Jr. (that's me!) wrote:
>> On Tue, 24 Dec 1996, Russell Schulz wrote:
>> > First of all, I shouldn't have said `only' -- I meant they had the
>> > coax but not the twisted-pair. Most of them have the AUI. I did
>> > see one post where someone mentioned a device that will hang off an
>> > AUI, so I will also investigate that, but if that doesn't work we
>> > will just get rid of the cards (or start up a segregated coax
>> > network in another office).
>> There are a number of manufacturers who make "transceivers" that hang
>> on the AUI port--we have a few for 10base2, a zillion for 10baseT,
>> quite a few for fiber.
>> But the cost will be competitive with the price of a new card, I
>> think.
>The piece of this that I didn't think of is this--buying transceivers
>(which might cost as little as $25 US) means not having to open up
>the machines to swap the NIC's, and not having to deal with possible
>configuration hassles.
>Include the cost of "hassle" in figuring relative costs.
>I don't think there is any performance difference between the two
>approaches.
No, but believe it or not, on some old AUI/thinnet NICs, you actually
had to throw a jumper (or set of jumpers) to switch from thinnet to AUI.
(Ancient NE2000s, anybody?) Which means opening the machines anyways.
My personal recommendation would be to replace the cards; you're still
in the same dollar category, basically.
--
Christopher D. Heer / ch...@us.oracle.com / ch...@eskimo.com
My opinions are my own and do not reflect those of Oracle Corp.