So how dead is CDP?
Tony Gravagno
who say they never even read it anymore. The noise-to-signal ratio
has chased everyone away. Does anyone have a suggestion for bringing
back the quality? Feel free to suggest that people would come back if
some of us just go away - I'd agree and comply.
As to where people have gone, I think some are just lurking rather
than posting. Some people have been hit by the economy and spending
time in places other than forums. Many end-users have migrated to
other platforms, leaving no one here to discuss Pick but old pickies.
And many have moved to product-specific forums. That said, the
traffic in those is down to almost nothing sometimes too.
Is the MV market just depressed?
T
Kevin King
Oh, I don't know if that's it. I scan the digest every day and read
anything of interest, but being more outside of traditional Pick these
days (U2, PHP), there haven't been many discussions of late that have
been specifically applicable or that warrant a response.
You're right that the S-to-N has been stifling at times. But that's
easy enough to ignore. Some folks come here just to fight. However,
I think most come here to learn, to grow, and to excel. With that in
mind, I think most people can look past the chaff to see the value of
active participation. In this economy, however, I would also venture
that many people are too busy just surviving to spend a lot of time
browsing the posts. However, when additional insight or feedback is
needed, it's great to have this channel.
So be not disheartened my worthsmithing friend. There may be a lull,
but in the great and mighty words of the citizens of Whoville: WE ARE
HERE, WE ARE HERE, WE ARE HERE!
-----
P.S. In an effort to stimulate discussion, anyone care to offer any
prognostications on the state of the art in software technology 5, 10,
or even 20 years from now?
Bob Marik
Tony,
I obviously can't speak for anyone else but I continue to read CDP on
a daily basis. I just haven't had any questions worth posting nor any
advise worth posting. Partly a function of old age and partly a
function of implementing and learning a new application program.
Keep up the good work though. It is helpful to read about what is
occurring in the MV world..
Bob Marik
sh
> I obviously can't speak for anyone else but I continue to read CDP on
> a daily basis. I just haven't had any questions worth posting nor any
> advise worth posting. Partly a function of old age and partly a
> function of implementing and learning a new application program.
> Keep up the good work though. It is helpful to read about what is
> occurring in the MV world..
> Bob Marik
I'm with you on this one. Just haven't had anything to say. There
haven't been any great issues raised. (Maybe that's because there
haven't been any earth shattering developments on my mv platform in the
last, let's see now, um, ---- decade? Should I discuss Cache, when I
don't use it? I just read about it. Same for QM and Revelation.
Interesting, but not on my agenda.)
My workload is essentially in the .NET, web services, etc, world now. MV
is just the data repository at this point.
How many questions have been raised on the BlueFinity mv.NET forum
lately? Maybe we're just all depressed (or getting older).
Sholom
RDW
most of them quite interesting. If I had anything constructive to
add to the conversation I would post. Mostly the post deal with
topics that are not currently an issue for me so I just read and
learn. I would hate to see CDP go away.
Ron White
--
Posted via NewsDemon.com - Premium Uncensored Newsgroup Service
------->>>>>>http://www.NewsDemon.com<<<<<<------
Unlimited Access, Anonymous Accounts, Uncensored Broadband Access
tobewan
still active after all these years.
I'd hate to see it go away.
Ross Ferris
Tony,
I think it is YOUR FAULT !
There are no great questions left unanswered - we can do it all, and
if not YOU can do it for them (at a price :-)
Apart from the occasional lapse of memory, I think there is little
reason for most people to post here ... and the underlying cause of
that is the lack of "new blood" ... there are very few newbies to post
dumb questions, and if they use google or bing, even then they can
probably find an answer in the archives.
As to end users, I think it unlikely that a "real" end user (eg clerk)
would ever want to come and visit, and their IT people are probably
happy just to have the status quo. Add to that the GFC and the fact
that people seem to be content (or at least willing to put up) with
what they have, and the questions will wither.
On a "brighter" note, if you can call it that, the Reserve Bank of
Australia lifted our interest rates yesterday ... appears we are the
only country with an "advanced economy" that is raising interest rates
-> hopefully the rest of the world will turn a corner soon, and if we
are really, really, REALLY lucky, interest rates might not go through
the roof as economies make up for lost time!
Ross Ferris,
Visage > Better by Design!
Diets
> Tony,
>
> I think it is YOUR FAULT !
>
I wouldn't go as far as this, but as a single developer who
occasionally requires some answers, I always got the feeling that I'm
not welcome to this group, due to whatever reason. I can only assume
(referring to some, if not all, of Tony's responses to my previous
postings) that I am not qualified to participate, or want stuff for
nothing. This is not unique to me, and some of my fellow developers
experience the same negativity from this group. In stark contrast, the
OpenQm group ALWAYS responds positively and in great detail, making
"underlings" like myself feel welcome.
There are many small developers out there making a living from their
(insignificant?) applications, whom I'm sure, would sincerely enjoy
participation, and get a sense of "belonging", to a group such as
this.
> and the underlying cause of that is the lack of "new blood" ... there are very few newbies to
> post dumb questions,
I've always maintained that the only dumb questions are the one's you
don't ask!! A guaranteed way to scare newbies away is to make them
feel stupid or unwanted. While I have great admiration and respect for
Tony, and his relentless efforts in the MV arena, I think there are
"ways and means" to talk to people!
Diets
cc
to ask lately.
Regards,
Cristian
mvdbman
helpful and mostly just lame attempts at humor! For me, at my age,
checkin CDP is a good way to see who's still breathing!
Bruce H
mvdbman
Dead 'G'. *checking*
mlu...@doxgroup.com
Amen to that. I do occasionally ask some strange, esoteric question.
Usually get a beat up a bit and then realize I was attacking the
problem all wrong to begin with. While those lumps can hurt at the
time I have gained valuable insight from many of them. I just wish
Tony G would put down that big stick he carries around.
Marshall
Homer L. Hazel
I would hate to see this news group disappear.
I've got several Microsoft groups that I occasionally browse, but this is
one
of two groups that I visit every day. I used to have more, but one by one,
they went away. CIV2 and CIV3 went away after the games became
outdated.
comp.home.automation became first a venue to attack somebody called
Robert Bass then just random ramblings about CFL & such.
I still get occasional tidbits of good information, but I cannot remember
the last. Sorry Tony, but I sometimes get about two paragraphs into
some of your messages and my eyes glaze over and my finger twitches
on the next key. I suspect I am missing out on some amazing
insight into some new technology.
I was very surprised to see Toby Kraft make a post here. He has
not posted in a very long time.
Larry Hazel
tobewan
> Greetings,
>
.....
> I was very surprised to see Toby Kraft make a post here. He has
> not posted in a very long time.
>
> Larry Hazel
Yes, it's true - I'm pretty much a lurker anymore. But still
interested in the MV space and hearing some of the war stories.
The last 10 years I've been working for a company outside the MV world
and am reminded daily how spoiled I was to have started in the MV
world. I occasionally dabble with OpenQM from time to time but with
house and boat and full time job, don't have much time.
I would like to know if there are other old-timers out there lurking
also? Sisk, Treankler, Eggers?
Toby
eppick77
I would love to see Henry post. I love to see his writing style.
I remember riding the elevator with him at a spectrum and he was
telling how and why he came up with SP-EDIT.
Remember the Go ask Henry buttons?
Eugene
frosty
>
> Yes, it's true - I'm pretty much a lurker anymore. But still
> interested in the MV space and hearing some of the war stories.
> The last 10 years I've been working for a company outside the MV world
> and am reminded daily how spoiled I was to have started in the MV
> world. I occasionally dabble with OpenQM from time to time but with
> house and boat and full time job, don't have much time.
>
> I would like to know if there are other old-timers out there lurking
> also? Sisk, Treankler, Eggers?
I lurk, sometimes post, sometimes even post with content.
Jon's in and out; there's some posts from him in cdp.
Henry hasn't been seen (in here) for years.
Dang, I'm an old-timer, now. =':^[
--
frosty
frosty
>
> Remember the Go ask Henry buttons?
(grin) Uh, yeah.
Still have a couple, I'm pretty sure.
--
frosty
Symeonb
really - i do frequent the u2 user group maillist tho - If u2 is 80%
of the MV world, and most of those people use u2ug instead of cdp then
it will be rather quite over here.
Symeon.
Kevin Powick
> Greetings,
[snip]
> Larry Hazel
Homey! My favorite US Marine. Glad you're still around.
--
Kevin Powick
Jon Sisk
I am certain Henry does not.
And Frosty was last time I saw him in August, but may be enjoying time
AFK.
Hey, I'm even gonna drop in on the SAPUG meeting next week and just
learned today that Mark Pick would be there in-person!
Talk about old-timers!
What was the question again?
j.
dawn
There are a lot of forums, with about one each for each of the MV
implementations along with this one. I thought there was a list of
those somewhere, but I just checked pickwiki and did not see it (with
20 full seconds of searching). Additionally, many use some form of
client-server connectivity or toolsets with more questions in those
areas than related to the MV aspects of what we do. I ask most of my
"dumb questions" (not asking doesn't seem smarter) on the Cache' Zen
(AJAX) list. I'm guessing that those working with .NET or various
toolsets would have a better shot at getting their specific questions
answered in forums specific to various APIs or toolsets.
That said, I like reading and participating on CDP. I am new to
writing MV BASIC code, but I usually ask my teammates my stupid mv
questions. If there is something specific to the Cache' MV
implementation, then I ask it on the Cache' MV list (which is not very
active because those who are converting from other places get good
hand-holding from InterSystems and seem to have few questions for the
list). I have noticed that the U2 list is not as noisy as it once was
(with a flare-up given the recent purchase by Rocket Software, of
course). If you get a chance, check out Chuck's article at
http://intelligent-enterprise.informationweek.com/channels/information_management/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=220301557&pgno=1
cheers! --dawn
> T
dawn
> I still read from time to time.
> I am certain Henry does not.
> And Frosty was last time I saw him in August, but may be enjoying time
> AFK.
>
> Hey, I'm even gonna drop in on the SAPUG meeting next week and just
> learned today that Mark Pick would be there in-person!
Since the topic of this SAPUG meeting is Reality, I understand what
would bring Mark to Seattle, so what are you doing up there? Is the
weather too nice in the LA area or are you playing in the Reality
sandbox right now too? Just curious, as always. --dawn
Homer L. Hazel
news:78a4ef1c-a9fa-4a0f...@p15g2000vbl.googlegroups.com...
[snip]
> Larry Hazel
--
Kevin Powick
Yes, I have a shirt that says it all.
Not as lean
Twice as Mean
Still a Marine
I'll probably work with Pick forever - or until I die
whichever is sooner. 8>))
Larry Hazel
frosty
>>Homey! My favorite US Marine. Glad you're still around.
Homer Hazel:
>Yes, I have a shirt that says it all.
>Not as lean
>Twice as Mean
>Still a Marine
>
>I'll probably work with Pick forever - or until I die
>whichever is sooner. 8>))
Careful!
http://www.moviesounds.com/fmj/permission.wav
--
frosty
Homer L. Hazel
news:sLydncaGaqh9xlDX...@centurytel.net...
For all of you mail call fans, the voice on the recording
was of course, the Gunny. Lee Emory.
Well, I've always thought I would live forever. Now it
appears that I have to! 8>))
Larry Hazel
frosty
>
> For all of you mail call fans, the voice on the recording
> was of course, the Gunny. Lee Emory.
>
> Well, I've always thought I would live forever. Now it
> appears that I have to! 8>))
Can't believe I missed R. Lee Ermey's "Mail Call" shows!
I am TiVoing all of his new Lock N' Load, though.
--
frosty
Albert D. Kallal
news:733d6e65-3c56-49c3...@p10g2000prm.googlegroups.com...
>Tony,
I obviously can't speak for anyone else but I continue to read CDP on
a daily basis. I just haven't had any questions worth posting nor any
advise worth posting. Partly a function of old age and partly a
function of implementing and learning a new application program.
Keep up the good work though. It is helpful to read about what is
occurring in the MV world..
Bob Marik
-----------
My case is very much like yours Bob, just not a lot of questions or
answers going on here.
Since I spend some time daily in some other newsgroups, (mainly the
Microsoft access ones), then when making a browse through the newsgroups,
then in passing I will usually check in here also.
As others pointed out, without new blood, you don't see very many new
questions. New people = lots of new questions
The other reason for me posting less here is that only a small amount of my
work now comes from the multi-value systems. I have to admit that there are
still really wonderful days that I get to have with pick once in awhile, but
they are rare indeed.
In fact it was just at the beginning of this year I had one real nice real
kick at the pick cat with a longtime customer who was migrating out of pick.
What was really interesting was I spent a good number of days using all of
my favorite tools.
This was Unfortunately a another migration project out of pick which all
seem to be the reason I get work these days!
To transfer data out of the pick system I used the d3 ODBC drivers and sql
mapping commands. I was pulling the data into MS
access. The performance of the odbc drivers was absolutely stunning.
500,000 records was transferring in just minutes. I used pass-through
queries on the access side..and wow, did transfers go fast.
Using the sql mapping commands allowed me to normalize the data out the
data multi-value tables from pick into a nice set of standard sql tables.
The sql mapping commands were fun to use, and I really was my first time
that I got to play with and use sql on a pick box all day long.
These sql mapping commands saved truckloads of work and resulted in me
having to write very little code on the pick side for transferring the data
out. Without the pick sql mapping commands, the transfer would have been a
far larger task and likely a lot more code would have been required.
I had used SQL for years, and it was just a blast and enjoyable to use pick
and sql on the same machine.
With most record counts barely in the million range, the tables was an easy
and small fit into ms-access. I thus wrote quite a bit of code on
the ms-access side with sql updates to clean and fix up the tables as to how
the new vendor wanted the data. Again ms-access is a product I know so very
well, and again this was an enjoyable part of the work. (in fact, I just
been signed on with ORelly books to do an access book!.
After all was said and done the company needed the data in sql server
format. So, I just fired up sql server and pumped all the data from access
to SQL server and produced a sql backup file to be shipped out to the
company. Again playing with SQL server for parts of the day was very
enjoyable, and is another skill set that have and know well.
In other words I spent the day using most of my skills sets I mastered over
the years. Everything I learned over the years was put to good use in this
project and that made this work just oh so enjyable.
When I sit back and look at this data migration project it really is amazing
how far computers and processing has come. Tables of 500,000 records used to
be big, and now easily fit in the computers ram and can be processed with a
desktop system like ms-access in seconds.
I was also running SQL server on my laptop. I mean running SQL server and
manipulating and modifying all this data on my laptop was a breeze. The
laptop was barely breaking into a sweat for this work. We just don't really
have problems with disk nor ram or cpu processing today. In the past these
types of migration projects were often time consuming, and data transfers
and processing were limiting factors. We come so far. The compaq laptop I
was using cost me less then $1000.
Thus, the whole migration process a very enjoyable experience in which I was
never resource limited in anyway at all.
It was just literally last month that I got a call from one from my last
remaining users of my reservation software in my city.
So, I am down to one last cat here, and that will likely be the end of my
paying work in multi-value land. The system currently runs on jBase as a
file share and will be replaced by a mix of sql server (free version),
ms-access (free runtime), and likely SharePoint (free again) for the web
part. I mean, everything I plan to use for replacements from sql server to
SharePoint is 100% free. I just don't get how vendors can make money with
everything being free! I mean, I am still billing for my time, but I so far
I don't see any licensing fees or purchases of any software required for the
replacement system I have in mind.
I shall also continue to lurk in here, and I don't think I will ever stop
having great warm memories about pick and my experiences it has given me
with computers.
I would say that my exposure to pick and multi-value databases has been one
of the best things that ever happened to me, and it has resulted in me
meeting some very wonderful people.
So, as always, a warm thanks to all of the people here in CDP.
On the other hand, Bob, is one person I met in person many a time (and we
are overdue
for a coffee).
So, I don't think CDP is dead, but the activity does seem to be slowing down
in here.
--
Albert D. Kallal
Edmonton, Alberta Canada
pleaseNOO...@msn.com
Art Martz
> If you get a chance, check out Chuck's article at
> http://intelligent-enterprise.informationweek.com/channels/information_management/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=220301557&pgno=1
>
> cheers! --dawn
>
Art
Homer L. Hazel
And he got to destroy lots of the deadly watermelons.
I knew I should have checked the spelling. Oh well.
Larry
frosty
> I'm sorry you missed "Mail Call" it was truly enjoyable.
Maybe it reruns on Dish Network. I can hope.
> And he got to destroy lots of the deadly watermelons.
LOL... what is it with "Gunny" and watermelons?!?
On Lock N' Load, he blows away plenty of them.
And gallon jugs of paint. And Butterball turkeys.
I'm actually quite impressed with his shooting and
skillz w/weapons in general. He's deadly with every
rifle, shotgun and blade he gets his hands on. Except
he can't throw a spear. I haven't seen him with an
atlatl yet.
--
frosty
Homer L. Hazel
Look what I found on the Internet.
http://www.tv.com/mail-call/show/18292/episode.html
At first I thought it actually had episodes you could watch,
but now I don't think so.
I vaguely remember seeing someone demonstrate or try
an atlatl on TV. Cannot remember if it was Gunny or
not.
Larry
JJCSR
views of MV. I read most everything, then filter through what might
be meaningful and helpful to me. Not really one of those "PICK
oldies" spoken of earlier, I came into the PICK world in 1984. I
would be considered your typical “MV convert”. Starting in April,
1962, following a 6-month course in EDP, I came through the trenches
of wiring boards for IBM card-oriented equipment (085, 514, 402, 407,
et al); sorting, collating, tabulating; and then programming in
AUTOCODER, RPG, and COBOL. I moved into IT-management in 1969.
Given the state of the economy, and my lack of winning Powerball, I
plan on being around to celebrate a few more years in the IT industry.
My role at my current job began with creating an MIS department, where
before, none existed. My search landed, quite by accident, on PICK-
based software packages for both wholesale and retail entities.
Since the purchase of that software, my employer has become highly
dependent on PICK for its company database and reporting. We
transfer POS sales transactions from a 30-terminal, non-PICK POS
environment into D3. Our web site's shopping cart transactions move
from MySQL on Linux, into PICK on Win2003 Server.
Regardless of the database of origin for any transaction coming into
our shop, the end result is a PICK item. Our retail operation spans
over 100,000 sq. ft of space; Citrix thin-clients are scattered
throughout that space, giving store personnel access to PICK database
inquiries. Two warehouses in two different locations rely, solely,
on PICK for receiving merchandise and transferring between all
locations, using RF equipment - talking to D3, via Visual Basic.
Being able to communicate new ideas and thoughts with people like
those who correspond within CDP is of major interest to me. Like so
many who visit CDP, I am in search of means of making our MV database
even more useful to management here at KTP. I am one of a 2-man MIS
shop, serving the demands and needs of more than 300 employees.
Having a source of Q-and-A available, like CDP, is truly helpful to
me.
In the past month's issue, Esquire magazine published a list of "10
Best Places For Men To Shop". My employer, Kittery Trading Post,
was named "number 1" on that list (I should mention that we are also a
great place to shop for women and children). I thank PICK, in large
part, for giving me the opportunities to aid our staff, through ad hoc
reporting, communication between disparate databases, or by way of any-
time-replenishment tools, in having the goods available to reach such
a plateau.
CDP provides an avenue by which I can enhance the tools provided
within the PICK community.
Jim Cronin
Dir. MIS
Kittery Trading Post
frosty
share with us cdp regulars? 25% off that Franchi Highlander would
be nice, just before Christmas. That, and convince my better half
that I need another side-by-side shotgun. I don't have one in 20
gauge... Yeah, that's the ticket.
Seriously, though: encouraging to see a world-class e-tailer using
Pick as the back end.
This part, "...I am one of a 2-man MIS shop, serving the demands
and needs of more than 300 employees." caught my eye; seems to be
the norm for Pick-based shops... but that's another thread.
--
frosty
mvdbman
> In the past month's issue, Esquire magazine published a list of "10
> Best Places For Men To Shop". My employer, Kittery Trading Post,
> was named "number 1" on that list (I should mention that we are also a
> great place to shop for women and children).
> Jim Cronin
> Dir. MIS
> Kittery Trading Post
Have been married twice and having 5 daughters, I believe I won't be
shopping for more women nor children. I have plenty.
*grin*
(Sorry, I just could NOT pass that one up!)
-Bruce H
mvdbman
"Pick" (UniVerse) backend. I work for Neiman Marcus.
http://www.linkedin.com/in/mvdbman
-Bruce H
Ricky Ginsburg
--
Ricky Ginsburg
http://www.fawnridge.com/ricky
(always open!)
"JJCSR" <JCr...@ktp.com> wrote in message
news:4bb2370a-366b-4962...@s31g2000yqs.googlegroups.com...
JJCSR
Frosty:
Thanks, much, for the website compliment. I will pass your kind
words on to the appropriate people. Sorry, but I don't have any
secret discount codes. We'd like the additional business, though.
Yes, the "2-man MIS staff" is a very consistant factor with MV-based
shops. In 1987, I founded Northern New England PICK Users
Association, just hoping to find a few other companies in our area
that would like to get together, occasionally, and share information
about PICK. What evolved, very quickly, was a membership consisting
of over 150 companies in all N.E. states except Ct., as they already
had their own group. And, from that 150 companies, by far the vast
majority were small entities, with little or no MIS staff. Most were
using turnkey packages, where VAR's had sold and installed hardware
and PICK-based software, leaving the "office manager" to run the
system. These people showed up at meetings, craving information.
You are also correct about this subject being another thread.
Bruce (mvdbman):
Cute reply about to the "...shop for women and children". Reminds of
the old joke about the guy who told his friend, "I got a fishing rod
for my wife". And, of course, the reply - "Nice trade".
And, Nieman Marcus? We're in nice company, to say the least.
Jim Cronin
Kittery Trading Post
Kittery Maine
Art Martz
driven with a UniVerse/Redback back-end.
Art
JJCSR
> You might also take a look atwww.marketamerica.comfor a web site
> driven with a UniVerse/Redback back-end.
> Art
Thanks for the information, Art. Does "MarketAmerica" use any MV for
the website, itself, or are they doing what I have to do - extract SQL
tables (or any other type of data) and build a PICK (MV) file? Just
curious.
JJCSR
Bruce:
What about the "front-end", the web page, itself? Are you using any
MV-based software for the website, or do you extract tables and build
MV files?
frosty
JJCSR wrote:
> Our web site's shopping cart transactions move
> from MySQL on Linux, into PICK on Win2003 Server.
> Kittery Trading Post
> http://www.kitterytradingpost.com/
mvdbman wrote:
> On a more serious note, there is another retailer with a
> "Pick" (UniVerse) backend. I work for Neiman Marcus.
Art Martz wrote:
> You might also take a look at www.marketamerica.com for a web site driven
> with a UniVerse/Redback back-end.
And to combine the Pick-based e-tail thread with the
disastrous upgrade thread: here's a direct sales company
(that Mark B. should remember) who "upgraded" so that they
could produce this site: www.stjohninc.com
--
frosty
Homer L. Hazel
> Deserves a new thread:
> And to combine the Pick-based e-tail thread with the
> disastrous upgrade thread: here's a direct sales company
> (that Mark B. should remember) who "upgraded" so that they
> could produce this site: www.stjohninc.com
>
>
> --
> frosty
>
Just to understand, the St. John site is not a disaster? It is a e-tail
success?
Larry Hazel
eppick77
> On Oct 14, 12:20 am, Art Martz <artma...@triad.rr.com> wrote:
>
> > driven with a UniVerse/Redback back-end.
> > Art
>
> Thanks for the information, Art. Does "MarketAmerica" use any MV for
> the website, itself, or are they doing what I have to do - extract SQL
> tables (or any other type of data) and build a PICK (MV) file? Just
> curious.
>
> Jim Cronin
> Kittery Trading Post
Jim,
Market America is using ColdFusion for the front end. Redback is
doing the middleware and calling methods which are really pick
subroutines that pass information to it. Typically all the business
rules are being done by the backend Universe programs.
Eugene
Art Martz
> Market America is using ColdFusion for the front end. Redback is
> doing the middleware and calling methods which are really pick
> subroutines that pass information to it. Typically all the business
> rules are being done by the backend Universe programs.
>
> Eugene
As Eugene said (Hey Eugene!), ColdFusion calls Redback calls a Universe
subroutine, in real time. The images are stored on a separate image
server, and the Universe subroutine tells ColdFusion which images to
fetch for what, and the ColdFusion view knows how and where to display
the images. ColdFusion can also deal with a MV data array set.
Art
frosty
>
> Just to understand, the St. John site is not a disaster? It is a
> e-tail success?
If by "success" you mean "makes more money for the company than
it costs to maintain" then I'd say, "Could be."
If by "success" you mean "a model for how to build a site" then
I'd say "you left out the word 'not'."
--
frosty
Homer L. Hazel
I will defer to your wisdom about the site, for I am not
an Internet expert, but I do not think I share your thoughts
about the site.
It seemed straight forward and easy to navigate.
There was no annoying flash or music.
I found out they have special band aids for mammograms
which I had never known before. 8>)
Larry
dawn
> On Oct 14, 12:20 am, Art Martz <artma...@triad.rr.com> wrote:
>
> > driven with a UniVerse/Redback back-end.
> > Art
>
> Thanks for the information, Art. Does "MarketAmerica" use any MV for
> the website, itself, or are they doing what I have to do - extract SQL
> tables (or any other type of data) and build a PICK (MV) file?
FWIW, I'm working on an e-commerce site directly against MV with the
Cache' AJAX platform (called Zen). We can use javascript and css,
along with MVBASIC. We use OO enhancements for MV to address
concurrency using their automated versioning of records and other nice
features. There is a learning curve, but there is with any browser-
based rich user interface (AJAX) platforms. We use SQL projrections of
our metadata, but we do not export to anything SQL at all. Cache's
implementation of SQL for MV is as fast as any out there. In fact,
they implemented the MV query language on top of SQL and still get the
speed out of it.
One of the reasons I chose this platform is that we can write the
software with no middle-tier language in our source code other than
mvbasic. [They have recently implemented server-side javascript too,
which we might try out at some point, plus they have other language
options too, but mvbasic is what we are using.]
cheers! --dawn
Rob Allen
> Hey Jim. Do you remember George Capell?
I'm not Jim, but I worked for George Capell for about a year in the
early 80s.
Rob Allen
mvdbman
The NM e-com web sites are backended (yes, that's a new word!) by
Oracle. Since the product data is in UniVerse, there are several
"feeds" sent to the Oracle systems in near-real-time by UniVerse
software running as phantoms via sockets with the data going as xml.
These feeds keep product info up to date in Oracle. There are feeds
containing customer updates and orders from Oracle back into UniVerse.
I have not been involved much in that process, so I am not very
knowledgeable as to the nuts and bolts of the whole process but I
believe I have given the gist of it - briefly!
But speaking of web pages, the project I am currently working on
involves Web Services. We have a J2EE application being created by IBM
for WebSphere Portal Server (several "portlets") using a large data
store in WebSphere Product Center as a common data source and with
WebSphere Process Server managing all the messaging between the
WebSphere products just mentioned and FileMaker and UniVerse. We are
using the U2 Web Services Developer Tool to create the wsdl's for all
the incoming (to UniVerse) SOAP requests. We also have an MV program
that generates outbound SOAP requests to WPS (WebSphere Process
Server) and WPC (WebSphere Product Center). The app, once finished,
tested and installed, will allow the merchants to create sku's, offer
items (an offer is a catalog, an item is a specific size and color of
a product on a page of the catalog), PO's and to manage Vendors. The
project is due to be installed in a few "pilot" buying offices first
quarter next calendar year.
Bruce H
GlenB
<address.is.in.po...@removethis.com.invalid> wrote:
> This forum has been dying for a long time now. I know too many people
> who say they never even read it anymore. The noise-to-signal ratio
> has chased everyone away. Does anyone have a suggestion for bringing
> back the quality? Feel free to suggest that people would come back if
> some of us just go away - I'd agree and comply.
>
It can't be my fault. I hardly post here anymore. No time.
> As to where people have gone, I think some are just lurking rather
> than posting. Some people have been hit by the economy and spending
> time in places other than forums. Many end-users have migrated to
> other platforms, leaving no one here to discuss Pick but old pickies.
> And many have moved to product-specific forums. That said, the
> traffic in those is down to almost nothing sometimes too.
>
> Is the MV market just depressed?
>
> T
Help! Drowning in orders here! I've been promoted to sales rep. New
projects and problems that I have no time for! I find time to tweet
occasionally. @pickcoder
Someone please clone me so I can get a break. And please, Pick sales
peeps, STOP calling my office #. I don't have time to talk! If I need
your products or services I will call you. *running around in circles
going nowhere*
GlenB
wjhonson
>
> Someone please clone me so I can get a break.
>
> GlenB
I'm right here. And I'm cheap (and easy).
Will Johnson
GlenB
You sound like an insurance commercial. Do you deny most of your
claims for the first 2 requests? :)
The biggest time waste I've experienced is having to get address
matches on credit cards for US and Canada. I've been on hold now for
15 mins waiting for someone at Titanium Platinum Card in Canada to
pick-up. Then, I'll get no address match and have to e-mail the
customer for a different card and put the order on hold. Argh!!
Businesses need an international credit card billing and shipping
address validation protocol for all card issuers. By the time I'm done
wasting my time, I will have lost all profits on the order.
GlenB
Tony Gravagno
> The biggest time waste I've experienced is having to get address
>matches on credit cards for US and Canada. I've been on hold now for
>15 mins waiting for someone at Titanium Platinum Card in Canada to
>pick-up. Then, I'll get no address match and have to e-mail the
>customer for a different card and put the order on hold. Argh!!
>Businesses need an international credit card billing and shipping
>address validation protocol for all card issuers. By the time I'm done
>wasting my time, I will have lost all profits on the order.
"International" might mean USA and Canada for USA-based merchants with
USA/Canada-based consumers. Outside of that it can get more
difficult. I was doing this in NebulaPay. Essentially the single
BASIC API allowed for address validation and other operations for an
assortment of providers. Unfortunately I doubt I'll be taking that
software out of mothballs anytime soon.
T
wjhonson
You're doing this manually? Why couldn't you code software to wait
for a response, and if it gets a no match to automagically email back
the customer, etc. Why do you have to be involved in a purely
automatic task like that?
Will
GlenB
Vital can not validate many card billing addresses, simply because:
1) the issuing bank is still in the stone ages and does not provide
address validation over the intarweb. 2010 card security? Heh! That's
a laugh from a merchant stand-point.
2) the issuing bank is not a US-drafted bank and therefore will not
mesh with Vital since the zip may be alpha-numeric
3) the issuing "bank" is a congolmerate of holding firms that don't
even know each other's phone numbers, much less which department has
computer access to the card info for that specific card.
GlenB
GlenB
>
> - Show quoted text -
Because sometimes it's how the numbers are to appear in the address
and also the fact that periods "." are considerd a number in the Vital
address validation service. What a PITA. Sometimes you have to spend
$10 in $1 charges to get an address match because the customer doesn't
type the address in exactly as it is on the bill!. As we say here, "no
coffee for you tomorrow morning!!"
GlenB
Ross Ferris
>
> - Show quoted text -
Considered the PayPal gateway .... sure, percentage may be higher, BUT
the stress levels are a whole lot lower :-)
Also, the "rape & pillage" approach for extractibng data from a web
site could be worthwhile. We have just had to do this for one of our
clients whose major trading partner believed that an email sent with
details of an order corresponded to a web service .... luckily they
did have the required information available on their web site, so
every X minutes we go out, traverse the site, and see if there is any
new information to pick up .... of course the first time they make a
decent change to the site we are shot (minor changes should be AOK as
we use DOM references), but meanwhile the "roll your own" web service
approach is working fine
Peter McMurray
<snip>
> > wasting my time, I will have lost all profits on the order.
>
> > GlenB
>
> You're doing this manually? Why couldn't you code software to wait
> for a response, and if it gets a no match to automagically email back
> the customer, etc. Why do you have to be involved in a purely
> automatic task like that?
>
> Will- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
Because sometimes it's how the numbers are to appear in the address
and also the fact that periods "." are considerd a number in the Vital
address validation service. What a PITA. Sometimes you have to spend
$10 in $1 charges to get an address match because the customer doesn't
type the address in exactly as it is on the bill!. As we say here, "no
coffee for you tomorrow morning!!"
GlenB
Then of course you have the dumbos that refuse to accept a PO Box as an
address even if you go to the trouble of putting it on the second line.say
Ed Kookie Byrnes
77 Sunset Strip
PO Box 94
Yes my address on cards is a PO Box and yes the post office want the box on
the envelope not the street address for a delivery and yes the carriers do
not come up the road but leave parcels at - you guessed it - the post
office.
Funnily enough Amazon manage to get it all correct with one key billing as
well so it is possible.
Peter McMurray
GlenB
>
> - Show quoted text -
Believe me, we've considered all the angles. There are many people
out there that still don't trust PayPal, much less using a CC on the
intarweb. The costs involved with the PayPal stuff kills our margins
even more than with the existing Visa rates. We do a decent amount of
individual business and the average ticket is so low that if we lose
any more than Visa rates then we might as well just give the stuff
away. The added issue with PayPal is that we could only accept orders
from customers with confirmed addresses. Otherwise, we're throwing
away more money on more risk. Like I said in a tweet a little while
back, it's becoming more expensive and risky to accept credit cards
over paper checks. The card industry needs some major rennovation and
forced standardization of electronic address validation methods. Look
how long it took Internet e-tailers and such to finally catch on that
the CVV2/CID is not just a random number the bank likes to print on
the card. We got belted often when we forced customers to provide that
years ago, but now it's a requirement by any reputable e-seller. The
zip code is also becoming more prevalant, but it's a waste of
validation time if only 1/4 of the issuing banks even have electronic
validation services in place for the card networks. Bank of America
has to be the worst IMO.
Consider this, in this day and age of credit card fraud: We
received an order for a foreign country, known for card fraud. The
order was for 100 pieces of a consumer-ish hand tool product. No one
_ever_ orders that many pieces of such an item from us, even in the
USA. The card was an American Express and the billing address was NY.
Would you believe that:
1) When we contacted American Express, they could not find the card
number at first. Eventually they found it.
2) They stated that the billing address we had was wrong, but they
could not state if it was a US or non-US card.
3) They refused to contact the card holder to validate the order
request or to make them aware of the potential purchase.
4) They would not place a tracer or flag on the account until the card
was literally defrauded by us charging funds on it.
5) So, we ran a $1 address validation and badgered a manager to put a
"watch flag" on the account. Did they actually notify the cardholder?
Probably not.
So, in an attempt to stop card fraud before it happened we were
blocked by the actual card issuer because the card had not yet been
defrauded. *boggles*
It took several escalation levels to reach someone that would even
listen to what we were saying and help out. We would have had to ship
the product, lose our money(a sizeable amount in this case), and get a
chargeback from the card holder(Amex basically), in order for the
number to be marked as a breached card number. What's wrong with this
picture???
GlenB
GlenB
I'm not sure what you are trying to accomplish with the street/
box combo. That regularly causes us grief because PO box zips are
never street zips. That breaks the typical validation mech. Instead,
use the PO box as your main card billing address. Call the issuing
bank and ask to add an authorized shipping address. That will be your
street address or any other address you regularly ship packages to.
When validation is done on both addresses, there will be no
conflicting data.
Glen.mobile
Peter McMurray
"GlenB" <batc...@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:834e57fa-84a0-4bd2...@r5g2000yqb.googlegroups.com...
Glen.mobile
Hi Glen
You are completely wrong and this may well be why you are having trouble.
As "all politics are local" so are zip codes. Australian zip codes are
mostly by area for example 7268 covers my entire postal district that
includes several hamlets, 7250 covers the whole of the Launceston city area.
Some exchanges such as Sydney and Melbourne may have special codes for the
Post Office others such as the Northern Territory have codes starting with a
leading zero that covers areas bigger than Virginia. British postcodes are
brilliant and identify the postal district, the street, the side of the
street and often the actual building.
I do have a separate postal address at the bank. The issue is with the
wretched suppliers that do not accept a card address can be a PO Box.
Typically they do not have provision for a separate billing address and
delivery address and to compound the sin refuse to accept a PO Box as a
delivery address.
I am trying to satisfy the post office that require a PO Box not a street
address and provide the delivery people with the street address that they
demand and never use.
One of the most annoying offenders is Dell with their patriotic claptrap.
The site is one of the worst ever programmed and should you make the mistake
of ordering a printer ink for use down the road never say it is not to be
used in the building that it is to be delivered to or you will be filling in
FBI (Famous But Incompetent) forms as well.
The simple rule is Provide an address set specifically for the card billing
separate to delivery address.
If your carrier demands a street address then only check the first line if
you feel that you must but remember that there are streets called Box avenue
or Box Road do not get smart and reject anything with PO in it. Oh and
finally the US of A is not the only place in the world with states so do not
reject anything that does not come in that stupid list of the lower 48 + 2.
Sorry but you have pressed my irate button don't try to check things that
you can't control and it is your bank that is at fault not the customer.
Peter McMurray
Peter McMurray
GlenB
Hi Glen
Why not just ring the customer? Pretty easy to confirm if they are real or
not we all know the call centres are probably in Mumbai and couldn't give a
tinker's cuss about your query. I am surprised that they didn't refuse to
talk to you as you are not the authorised representative.
Believe it or not the customer could well be pleased about your personal
service :-)
Peter McMurray
GlenB
> "GlenB" <batch...@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
Ring the customer?! The buyer was obviously not the cardholder and
even if they provided a phone number it was obviously a fraudulent
order. We left the order on hold and no one ever contacted us about
the order status. In any regard, a fraulent buyer is going to lie
about whatever they can so you can only obtain the issuing bank phone
number on file with the card network and try to verify as much info as
you can. Things must be totally different in your world.
Glen.mobile
GlenB
> "GlenB" <batch...@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
In the USA post office boxes do not share postal codes with
street addresses.
Glen.mobile
Peter McMurray
"<snip>
In the USA post office boxes do not share postal codes with
street addresses.
Glen.mobile
Ahah! So that is why we get these grossly incompetent websites local
arrogance/ignorance.
Example
I am an avid reader. I search for a book. Great find it and spend another
45 minutes placing a larger order. The wretched site will not accept a PO
Box in the address but my Mastercard address is a PO Box. I contact them re
this anomaly and get a snooty response from some incompetent female IT boss.
Example 2
National Geographic accept an order. Again some woman cancels the order,
not defers cancels, because they don't accept PO Boxes. The web site does
not say this and does not have separate addresses for Mastercard and
delivery.
Example 3
Microsoft order screen same scenario only worse. They accept the order and
finally some remote support organisation says we can't send it to a PO Box
but there is only one address box. Just to add insult to injury they
already have my account details from earlier orders and a silly girl sends
back my card as rejected. I check with bank, no they did not reject it girl
obviously made stupid mistake.
Example 4
If I find one more site that wants me to put "other" rather than select the
wretched US list for state I think I shall start shooting web designers.
Peter McMurray
Peter McMurray
"<snip>
Ring the customer?! The buyer was obviously not the cardholder and
even if they provided a phone number it was obviously a fraudulent
order. We left the order on hold and no one ever contacted us about
the order status. In any regard, a fraulent buyer is going to lie
about whatever they can so you can only obtain the issuing bank phone
number on file with the card network and try to verify as much info as
you can. Things must be totally different in your world.
Glen.mobile
If they have the card and can provide a valid check number off the back then
it is not your worry.
If you have such great doubts why not just look them up in the phone book.
If they cannot provide valid information re a checkable name and address
over the phone then you forget it as the banks have no interest in tracking
fraud. Of course they should have but as long as it is below their margin
they are happy.
All these options seem cheaper than getting false returns from the bank.
Peter McMurray
Bill Cooke
....
> wretched US list for state I think I shall start shooting web designers.
> Peter McMurray
You and Obama - multivaluers at heart: shoot / don't shoot / shoot a
few / ...
ooops this is a "pick" forum, not multivalued. So, pick one to shoot.
Ross Ferris
> Example 4
> If I find one more site that wants me to put "other" rather than select the
> wretched US list for state I think I shall start shooting web designers.
> Peter McMurray
I'd suggest you may find moving to the USA a chaeper option .... and
certainly a better view than from behind bars!!
Kevin Powick
> Ahah! So that is why we get these grossly incompetent websites local
> arrogance/ignorance.
> Example
> 45 minutes placing a larger order. The wretched site will not accept a PO
> Box in the address but my Mastercard address is a PO Box.
PO boxes are usually for mail. Your Mastercard bill is mail. Most
parcel carriers, UPS, FedEx, DHL, etc, only deliver to a physical
address where they can hand a package to a person. This is not the
case for most PO Boxes, hence the restriction.
Most sites I've used have both a shipping and billing address input.
Billing addresses can be PO Boxes. Never had a problem.
> Example 3
> Microsoft order screen same scenario only worse. They accept the order and
> finally some remote support organisation says we can't send it to a PO Box
> but there is only one address box.
Microsoft on-line does suck.. I just bought something from them the
other day (electronic download, so no delivery required), and ran into
the "only one address box" problem. Fortunately, my other CC is
addressed to my residence, so I could use that one.
> Example 4
> If I find one more site that wants me to put "other" rather than select the
> wretched US list for state
If it's a US based company, they only care about the state for either
statistical information and/or tax purposes. While I might be
interested that I have people in country XYZ buying my products, I
doubt I would care very much which state, province, territory, etc in
which they lived.
Also, would your solution be to allow free-format data entry of your
state code for your country? Imagine how quickly your data would be
rotted. And providing a data driven solution based on the input
country is likely a bit of a maintenance headache for something most
vendors don't care about, except for sales within their own country.
--
Kevin Powick
Mike Wooding
In the UK we have a system called "Verified by Visa" which is catching and
and all but eliminates problems due to cloning, card theft, etc.
The transaction proceeds as normal, so the user enters their card details,
name, address, CVV etc,. (All obtainable from a stolen purse / wallet or
known to a rogue merchant who's cloning cards.) At the end, the merchant
makes a call to the "Verified by Visa" system which displays an additional
window prompting for the user selected password associated with that card.
(Note: Not the PIN, but a proper, multi-character password that can include
letters, numbers and symbols.) "Verified by Visa" then pass back to the
merchant whether or not this completed successfully thereby enabling the
merchant to accept or reject the transaction.
Clearly it hasn't caught on elsewhere yet, but in my opinion it should.
You can read all about it here
http://www.visaeurope.com/merchant/handlingvisapayments/cardnotpresent/verifiedbyvisa.jsp
including watching demo videos, etc.
(BTW: If something on the web-site contradicts or disagrees with anything
I've said above, go with the web-site version. I'm not a merchant using
this system, just a customer, so things may not be how they appear to me.)
Regards
Mike Wooding