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Virtual Databases
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Mladen Gogala
May 15, 2013, 3:05:20 PM5/15/13
to
I'm posting this discussion here, because of the moderator on one of the
LinkedIn forums. The post that has probably irritated the moderator was
the following:
"Nuno, everything is virtual these days. The mere word "virtual" sells
things. With the advent of the little blue pill produced by Pfizer, even
some body parts can be considered virtual and thinly provisioned, as
needed.I'm almost tempted to ask for a virtual beer, but then again, I
know better. I keep my beer real."
This was prompted by a post containing nothing more than a blog link to
the post about virtual databases, amid the debate with the title "To RAC
or not to RAC". Fortunately, there are no moderators here, so the debate
can be safely moved to CDOS.
What the heck are "virtual databases"? I consider a database real, for as
long as I have to pay the real money for the instance(s) managing it. As
soon as Oracle allows me to pay them with the Monopoly money, I will
accept the term "virtual database". The term "virtual" is the marketing
buzzword of the day, similar to the prefix "e-" from the late 90's. There
is a famous Dilbert making fun of that. PHB had a title "Director of
Information and Office Technology", or DIOT for short. To follow the
fashion, Dilber suggested prefixing the title with the "e-", resulting in
"e-DIOT". I wish someone made something like that with the ubiquitous
adjective "virtual".
Disclaimers:
1) This is not about the virtual private database, which is something
completely different, just like John Cleese in the bathing suit.
2) The post was directed to Noons, well known member of this forum.
--
Mladen Gogala
The Oracle Whisperer
http://mgogala.byethost5.com
LinkedIn forums. The post that has probably irritated the moderator was
the following:
"Nuno, everything is virtual these days. The mere word "virtual" sells
things. With the advent of the little blue pill produced by Pfizer, even
some body parts can be considered virtual and thinly provisioned, as
needed.I'm almost tempted to ask for a virtual beer, but then again, I
know better. I keep my beer real."
This was prompted by a post containing nothing more than a blog link to
the post about virtual databases, amid the debate with the title "To RAC
or not to RAC". Fortunately, there are no moderators here, so the debate
can be safely moved to CDOS.
What the heck are "virtual databases"? I consider a database real, for as
long as I have to pay the real money for the instance(s) managing it. As
soon as Oracle allows me to pay them with the Monopoly money, I will
accept the term "virtual database". The term "virtual" is the marketing
buzzword of the day, similar to the prefix "e-" from the late 90's. There
is a famous Dilbert making fun of that. PHB had a title "Director of
Information and Office Technology", or DIOT for short. To follow the
fashion, Dilber suggested prefixing the title with the "e-", resulting in
"e-DIOT". I wish someone made something like that with the ubiquitous
adjective "virtual".
Disclaimers:
1) This is not about the virtual private database, which is something
completely different, just like John Cleese in the bathing suit.
2) The post was directed to Noons, well known member of this forum.
--
Mladen Gogala
The Oracle Whisperer
http://mgogala.byethost5.com
Robert Klemme
May 16, 2013, 2:34:03 AM5/16/13
to
On 15.05.2013 21:05, Mladen Gogala wrote:
> The term "virtual" is the marketing
> buzzword of the day, similar to the prefix "e-" from the late 90's.
Hmm... I thought "virtual" had been replaced by "cloud" quite a while
> The term "virtual" is the marketing
> buzzword of the day, similar to the prefix "e-" from the late 90's.
ago. But nevertheless I do agree: marketing words are quite virtual -
all of them.
Cheers
robert
--
remember.guy do |as, often| as.you_can - without end
http://blog.rubybestpractices.com/
Noons
May 16, 2013, 3:05:51 AM5/16/13
to
On May 16, 5:05 am, Mladen Gogala <gogala.mla...@gmail.com> wrote:
> What the heck are "virtual databases"? I consider a database real, for as
Wait for 12c and the pluggable dbs. I don't give you 3 months from
> What the heck are "virtual databases"? I consider a database real, for as
release date that anyone not running "plugged dbs" will be another
"bad dba"....
>
> 2) The post was directed to Noons, well known member of this forum.
Jonathan Lewis
May 17, 2013, 6:01:09 AM5/17/13
to
"Mladen Gogala" <gogala...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:pan.2013.05...@gmail.com...
a virtual network is a self-contained environment that emulates a
network by using a portion of the resources made available by a real
network
a virtual machine is a self-contained environment that emulates a
machine by using a portion of the resources made available by a real
machine
hence
a virtual database is a self-contained environment that emulates a
database by using a portion of the resources made available by a real
database
This seems to fit the interpretation used by Delphix, EMC, and other
players in the market. The most significant difference in interpretation is
that all of the suppliers require the physical resources of the underlying
database to exist (viz: be "in use" somewhere); whereas a virtual machine
or virtual network works only if the real resource is not otherwise in use
As a side effect, the most significant benefit of the virtual database
comes into play only when you have multiple virtual databases sitting on
top of a single real database to get "N databases for the resources of
one."
You might want to reconsider your use of the terms database and instance,
by the way. Generally people pay a licence to run the software on a machine
and you can have as many databases and instances on a machine as you like:
so every instance after the first one is free, as is every database after
the first database. Of course, they can't be called "virtual" because they
would be using the full resources required for a database or instance.
Regards
Jonathan Lewis
http://jonathanlewis.wordpress.com/all-postings
Author: Oracle Core (Apress 2011)
http://www.apress.com/9781430239543
news:pan.2013.05...@gmail.com...
|
| What the heck are "virtual databases"? I consider a database real, for as
| long as I have to pay the real money for the instance(s) managing it. As
| soon as Oracle allows me to pay them with the Monopoly money, I will
| accept the term "virtual database". The term "virtual" is the marketing
| buzzword of the day, similar to the prefix "e-" from the late 90's.
Taking a simplistic view-point,
| What the heck are "virtual databases"? I consider a database real, for as
| long as I have to pay the real money for the instance(s) managing it. As
| soon as Oracle allows me to pay them with the Monopoly money, I will
| accept the term "virtual database". The term "virtual" is the marketing
| buzzword of the day, similar to the prefix "e-" from the late 90's.
a virtual network is a self-contained environment that emulates a
network by using a portion of the resources made available by a real
network
a virtual machine is a self-contained environment that emulates a
machine by using a portion of the resources made available by a real
machine
hence
a virtual database is a self-contained environment that emulates a
database by using a portion of the resources made available by a real
database
This seems to fit the interpretation used by Delphix, EMC, and other
players in the market. The most significant difference in interpretation is
that all of the suppliers require the physical resources of the underlying
database to exist (viz: be "in use" somewhere); whereas a virtual machine
or virtual network works only if the real resource is not otherwise in use
As a side effect, the most significant benefit of the virtual database
comes into play only when you have multiple virtual databases sitting on
top of a single real database to get "N databases for the resources of
one."
You might want to reconsider your use of the terms database and instance,
by the way. Generally people pay a licence to run the software on a machine
and you can have as many databases and instances on a machine as you like:
so every instance after the first one is free, as is every database after
the first database. Of course, they can't be called "virtual" because they
would be using the full resources required for a database or instance.
Regards
Jonathan Lewis
http://jonathanlewis.wordpress.com/all-postings
Author: Oracle Core (Apress 2011)
http://www.apress.com/9781430239543
Mladen Gogala
May 19, 2013, 12:53:21 AM5/19/13
to
On Fri, 17 May 2013 11:01:09 +0100, Jonathan Lewis wrote:
> "Mladen Gogala" <gogala...@gmail.com> wrote in message
> "Mladen Gogala" <gogala...@gmail.com> wrote in message
> Taking a simplistic view-point,
> a virtual network is a self-contained environment that emulates a
> network by using a portion of the resources made available by a real
> network
> a virtual machine is a self-contained environment that emulates a
> machine by using a portion of the resources made available by a real
> machine hence
> a virtual database is a self-contained environment that emulates a
> database by using a portion of the resources made available by a real
> database
Jonathan, what would that look like from the implementation perspective?
> a virtual network is a self-contained environment that emulates a
> network by using a portion of the resources made available by a real
> network
> a virtual machine is a self-contained environment that emulates a
> machine by using a portion of the resources made available by a real
> machine hence
> a virtual database is a self-contained environment that emulates a
> database by using a portion of the resources made available by a real
> database
As far as I know, it not possible to do that with current versions of
Oracle. What would you do if someone asked you to create 3 virtual
datbases using database PROD, for some reason a strangely popular name
for databases? Would you buy Delphix? I have to admit that I would ask
for the desired color of those 3 virtual databases and hope that the
answer would be "mauve".
>
>
> You might want to reconsider your use of the terms database and
> instance, by the way. Generally people pay a licence to run the software
> on a machine and you can have as many databases and instances on a
> machine as you like: so every instance after the first one is free, as
> is every database after the first database. Of course, they can't be
> called "virtual" because they would be using the full resources required
> for a database or instance.
install a copy of the software on another box and create a physical
standby database, which would seem to contradict yor statement.
joel garry
May 20, 2013, 12:20:31 PM5/20/13
to
for that other box (at least if they are running the instance).
jg
--
@home.com is bogus.
http://www.tgdaily.com/hardware-brief/71702-oracles-ellison-earns-3-a-second
Mladen Gogala
May 20, 2013, 10:03:02 PM5/20/13
to
On Mon, 20 May 2013 09:20:31 -0700, joel garry wrote:
> Maybe I'm not following you, but they have to pay for a full license for
> that other box (at least if they are running the instance).
Who are "they"? I have worked for a company who was running several
> Maybe I'm not following you, but they have to pay for a full license for
> that other box (at least if they are running the instance).
standby databases and underwent a license audit by Oracle Corp. without
having to pay for an instance. I'm aware of such interpretations, but
the EE license explicitly says that a physical standby is included.
http://docs.oracle.com/cd/B28359_01/license.111/b28287.pdf
That means that you don't have to pay for the standby. If you had to
pay for the standby, then the license inclusion would be senseless. However,
I am aware of the fact that different Oracle sales organizations do things
differently, even toward the different clients. There are other, conflicting
documents, which ensure enough mess so that the sales reps can interpret
things as they like it. Here is one such document:
http://www.oracle.com/us/corporate/pricing/data-recovery-licensing-070587.pdf
That changes the calculation significantly. However, this is not applied
consistently as the customers are already crying foul.
Justin Mungal
May 20, 2013, 10:24:02 PM5/20/13
to
You need to have a full license for standby systems. The EE license includes a physical standby license because Data Guard is a part of the EE license, but that doesn't mean the license includes installing EE on another server in a standby configuration.
Please take a look at page 21 of the Software Investment Guide:
http://www.oracle.com/us/corporate/pricing/sig-070616.pdf
Oracle very carefully defines the following DR strategies: Backup, Failover, Standby, and Remote Mirroring. You can see the licensing requirements for them on page 20 and 21 of the Software Investment Guide.
The data recovery licensing document you linked also confirms this in the standby section:
" If the primary database fails, a standby database can be activated to be the new primary database. In this environment, the primary and the standby databases must be fully licensed. "
I hope this helps.
Justin
joel garry
May 21, 2013, 2:05:43 PM5/21/13
to
On May 20, 7:24 pm, Justin Mungal <jus...@n0de.ws> wrote:
> On Monday, May 20, 2013 9:03:02 PM UTC-5, Mladen Gogala wrote:
> > On Mon, 20 May 2013 09:20:31 -0700, joel garry wrote:
>
> > > Maybe I'm not following you, but they have to pay for a full license for
>
> > > that other box (at least if they are running the instance).
>
> > Who are "they"? I have worked for a company who was running several
>
> > standby databases and underwent a license audit by Oracle Corp. without
>
> > having to pay for an instance. I'm aware of such interpretations, but
>
> > the EE license explicitly says that a physical standby is included.
>
> >http://docs.oracle.com/cd/B28359_01/license.111/b28287.pdf
>
> > That means that you don't have to pay for the standby. If you had to
>
> > pay for the standby, then the license inclusion would be senseless. However,
>
> > I am aware of the fact that different Oracle sales organizations do things
>
> > differently, even toward the different clients. There are other, conflicting
>
> > documents, which ensure enough mess so that the sales reps can interpret
>
> > things as they like it. Here is one such document:
>
> >http://www.oracle.com/us/corporate/pricing/data-recovery-licensing-07...
> On Monday, May 20, 2013 9:03:02 PM UTC-5, Mladen Gogala wrote:
> > On Mon, 20 May 2013 09:20:31 -0700, joel garry wrote:
>
> > > Maybe I'm not following you, but they have to pay for a full license for
>
> > > that other box (at least if they are running the instance).
>
> > Who are "they"? I have worked for a company who was running several
>
> > standby databases and underwent a license audit by Oracle Corp. without
>
> > having to pay for an instance. I'm aware of such interpretations, but
>
> > the EE license explicitly says that a physical standby is included.
>
> >http://docs.oracle.com/cd/B28359_01/license.111/b28287.pdf
>
> > That means that you don't have to pay for the standby. If you had to
>
> > pay for the standby, then the license inclusion would be senseless. However,
>
> > I am aware of the fact that different Oracle sales organizations do things
>
> > differently, even toward the different clients. There are other, conflicting
>
> > documents, which ensure enough mess so that the sales reps can interpret
>
> > things as they like it. Here is one such document:
>
>
> > That changes the calculation significantly. However, this is not applied
>
> > consistently as the customers are already crying foul.
>
> > --
>
> > Mladen Gogala
>
> > The Oracle Whisperer
>
> >http://mgogala.byethost5.com
>
> Hi Mladen,
>
> You need to have a full license for standby systems. The EE license includes a physical standby license because Data Guard is a part of the EE license, but that doesn't mean the license includes installing EE on another server in a standby configuration.
>
> Please take a look at page 21 of the Software Investment Guide:http://www.oracle.com/us/corporate/pricing/sig-070616.pdf
>
> Oracle very carefully defines the following DR strategies: Backup, Failover, Standby, and Remote Mirroring. You can see the licensing requirements for them on page 20 and 21 of the Software Investment Guide.
>
> The data recovery licensing document you linked also confirms this in the standby section:
>
> " If the primary database fails, a standby database can be activated to be the new primary database. In this environment, the primary and the standby databases must be fully licensed. "
>
> I hope this helps.
>
> Justin
I think it also matters whether Active Dataguard is being used, and
> > That changes the calculation significantly. However, this is not applied
>
> > consistently as the customers are already crying foul.
>
> > --
>
> > Mladen Gogala
>
> > The Oracle Whisperer
>
> >http://mgogala.byethost5.com
>
> Hi Mladen,
>
> You need to have a full license for standby systems. The EE license includes a physical standby license because Data Guard is a part of the EE license, but that doesn't mean the license includes installing EE on another server in a standby configuration.
>
> Please take a look at page 21 of the Software Investment Guide:http://www.oracle.com/us/corporate/pricing/sig-070616.pdf
>
> Oracle very carefully defines the following DR strategies: Backup, Failover, Standby, and Remote Mirroring. You can see the licensing requirements for them on page 20 and 21 of the Software Investment Guide.
>
> The data recovery licensing document you linked also confirms this in the standby section:
>
> " If the primary database fails, a standby database can be activated to be the new primary database. In this environment, the primary and the standby databases must be fully licensed. "
>
> I hope this helps.
>
> Justin
whether older licenses are grandfathered. I suspect the latter is why
Mladen has seen places pass an audit, as you used to be able to run a
standby and test it for up to ten days a year, or some such thing.
Advice to newbies for new systems needs to be current, of course.
People going into existing systems need to know enough not to shoot
themselves in the various lower extremities. One take-away is to
always save current electronic docs when the contract is signed, as it
is easy to change bits.
And that's why you need lawyers.
http://hihi.elmer.org/images/bloomcounty.2.
Justin Mungal
May 21, 2013, 2:24:49 PM5/21/13
to
Software licensing is one of those things I wish I didn't have to know about...
Mladen Gogala
May 21, 2013, 4:24:09 PM5/21/13
to
On Tue, 21 May 2013 11:05:43 -0700, joel garry wrote:
> I think it also matters whether Active Dataguard is being used, and
> whether older licenses are grandfathered. I suspect the latter is why
> Mladen has seen places pass an audit, as you used to be able to run a
> standby and test it for up to ten days a year, or some such thing.
Yes, this was an old license. The release bought was 7.3. Some time has
> I think it also matters whether Active Dataguard is being used, and
> whether older licenses are grandfathered. I suspect the latter is why
> Mladen has seen places pass an audit, as you used to be able to run a
> standby and test it for up to ten days a year, or some such thing.
passed since then. I inherited the place when it was running 9i in 2006. I
completed the transition to 10G in 2008 and to 11.2.0.2 in 2011.
Unfortunately, the transition to 12c shall never happen:
http://www.mediabistro.com/prnewser/vms-goes-out-of-business_b26431
When was this change introduced?
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