Itanic is sinking

[Mladen Gogala]

http://tinyurl.com/7l3v6nr
HP is cutting 30,000 jobs, starting next week. I wonder how much of that
is because of betting the company future on the failed chip and how much
of it is because of "Midas touch", that company has, turning everything
it touches into a muffler. Convex, Polyserve and 3Par are just the most
famous examples. I wonder how much of HP will be left after the next week.
Mark Hurd and Larry are probably laughing their rear ends off.



--
http://mgogala.byethost5.com

[John Hurley]

Mladen"

# HP is cutting 30,000 jobs, starting next week. I wonder how much of

that is because of betting the company future on the failed chip and
how much of it is because of "Midas touch

We are just buying 2 new itanium app servers if this makes you feel
better?

Don't think hp futures or trajectory is based much on itanium ...

Do you think Mark Hurd can keep his hands off the cookie jar ( or fill
in the blank )?

[joel garry]

Remember, in the world of Republicans, cutting expenses raises stock
prices and helps the economy through magical Laffing Curves.

>
> --http://mgogala.byethost5.com

And Oracle announces... 12g! http://www.oracle.com/us/corporate/features/itanium-346707.html
(h/t oracle-l)

jg
--
@home.com is bogus.
lol here comes the Internet Purity Test
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/05/18/nyregion/ultra-orthodox-jews-will-meet-at-citi-field-to-discuss-internet-dangers.html

[joel garry]

On May 18, 2:43 pm, John Hurley <johnthehur...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Mladen"
>
> # HP is cutting 30,000 jobs, starting next week. I wonder how much of
> that is because of betting the company future on the failed chip and
> how much of it is because of "Midas touch
>
> We are just buying 2 new itanium app servers if this makes you feel
> better?

With all the abuse we've taken at the hands of Oracle, our decision
makers are now evaluating whether to continue on with our current
bankrupt app provider, which means an upgrade nearly as complex as new
stuff, or several others. It seems all groups will be pushing away
from Oracle, though I suspect the upgrade route would keep us
rearranging deck chairs for at least a couple more years, and a
conversion elsewhere could realistically take as long, including
decision and preparation time. Either way, more spread of new stuff
than I feel comfortable with at this point in my life, but that's
hardly a complaint. There's also a small possibility of do-nothing
stabilize where we are, I'm thinking that may not last long if it
happens, we've already got disks older than they should be for
production.

>
> Don't think hp futures or trajectory is based much on itanium ...

Yeah, their troubles are really PC based for the most part.

>
> Do you think Mark Hurd can keep his hands off the cookie jar ( or fill
> in the blank )?

I don't think wandering hands are considered a negative in those
circles. http://gawker.com/5454315/oracle-president-admits-to-affair-with-woman-from-mystery-billboards
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/politics/special/clinton/stories/punishment091698.htm

And they pass the cookie jar around there.
http://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1341439/000119312510205818/dex1028.htm

jg
--
@home.com is bogus.

http://www.utsandiego.com/news/2012/may/18/facebook-falls-flat-in-public-debut/

[Mladen Gogala]

On Fri, 18 May 2012 14:49:46 -0700, joel garry wrote:


> Remember, in the world of Republicans, cutting expenses raises stock
> prices and helps the economy through magical Laffing Curves.

I don't think that republicans are much to blame for the current HP woes.
Neither are democrats. I don't see any connection with politics, at all.
Truth is that HP leadership doesn't have any technological vision. Bush
and Clinton didn't mess up their product line. HP did that to themselves.
It was Carly Fiorina who turned the company into the printer and laptop
company, not Meg Whitman. Meg only applies the same unimaginative therapy
as everybody else: layoffs. Well, layoffs will not distinguish HP from
their competitors. Only engineering and technological vision could do
that. Unfortunately, it looks like technological vision is missing from
HP. With layoffs, the last employee will eventually turn the lights out,
before he or she is laid off, and the company will slowly pass into the
legend. It's a darned shame, it was one of the pioneers of the RISC
revolution. PA RISC was running circles around Intel chips, for a very,
very long time. I still remember the shock when I executed "uptime"
command on one HP-UX 9 running model 9000 and the answer that came back
was "2733 days". GLanceplus was light years ahead of top. OmniBack used
to be excellent.



--
http://mgogala.byethost5.com

[Mladen Gogala]

On Fri, 18 May 2012 14:43:53 -0700, John Hurley wrote:


> Don't think hp futures or trajectory is based much on itanium ...

That sounds even worse than I thought.



--
http://mgogala.byethost5.com

[Robert Klemme]

On 19.05.2012 03:28, Mladen Gogala wrote:
> On Fri, 18 May 2012 14:49:46 -0700, joel garry wrote:
>
>
>> Remember, in the world of Republicans, cutting expenses raises stock
>> prices and helps the economy through magical Laffing Curves.
>
> I don't think that republicans are much to blame for the current HP woes.
> Neither are democrats. I don't see any connection with politics, at all.

I think Joel was referring to the exaggerated believe in the market and
the consequences for mindsets around the globe - especially in financial
industry. Raising stock price has become more important than securing
the future of enterprises far too often.

> Meg only applies the same unimaginative therapy
> as everybody else: layoffs.

That's what Joel was referring to, I believe.

> Well, layoffs will not distinguish HP from their competitors.

That's a very good point! Unfortunately it seems to be ignored all too
often. Cost cutting by relocating work to countries with lower wages is
another of those dreadful "best practices". I think one of the reasons
is that people are staring too much at numbers of things that can be
easily measured (wages for example). Things which do not have a price
tag easily attached (e.g. additional time spent for home staff,
communication overhead, cost of misunderstandings etc.) are simply non
existent for these people.

> PA RISC was running circles around Intel chips, for a very,
> very long time. I still remember the shock when I executed "uptime"
> command on one HP-UX 9 running model 9000 and the answer that came back
> was "2733 days". GLanceplus was light years ahead of top. OmniBack used
> to be excellent.

Wow!

Cheers

robert

--
remember.guy do |as, often| as.you_can - without end
http://blog.rubybestpractices.com/

[Mladen Gogala]

On Sat, 19 May 2012 12:42:44 +0200, Robert Klemme wrote:

> I think Joel was referring to the exaggerated believe in the market and
> the consequences for mindsets around the globe - especially in financial
> industry.

Having grown up in the communist Yugoslavia, I know from the personal
experience that free market is much more efficient than any state
controlled ventures. However, this is a single company, there is no
politics here, just the question of efficiency.
Furthermore, this is not a political group. I am reluctant to bother
people with politics. Sex and politics are not to be discussed if we want
to stay polite and civilized. That should also include soccer, but
unfortunately, it doesn't.



--
http://mgogala.byethost5.com

[Robert Klemme]

On 20.05.2012 01:28, Mladen Gogala wrote:
> On Sat, 19 May 2012 12:42:44 +0200, Robert Klemme wrote:
>
>> I think Joel was referring to the exaggerated believe in the market and
>> the consequences for mindsets around the globe - especially in financial
>> industry.
>
> Having grown up in the communist Yugoslavia, I know from the personal
> experience that free market is much more efficient than any state
> controlled ventures.

That's true. Some would add that this efficiency extends to ruining
many people's lives and the environment.

> However, this is a single company, there is no
> politics here, just the question of efficiency.

I understand Joel's point here as wrong decisions (according to your
measure) being an outcome of a prevalent economical fashion. Of course
that's not limited to a single company.

And the question of efficiency is harder to answer than it might seem at
first glance: efficiency is always measured against a goal. If the goal
is short term stock market magic then the measures might actually be
efficient. Long term success of a company is of course a completely
different goal which is probably effectively reached with another set of
measures. The current set up of the environment (laws, regulations,
expectations of analysis) seem to favor short term goals though.

> Furthermore, this is not a political group. I am reluctant to bother
> people with politics. Sex and politics are not to be discussed if we want
> to stay polite and civilized.

I am not too good informed about all the details of US policies but I
assume Joel just wanted to pick a catchy name for a certain management
fashion which has become prevalent in the last decade(s) and to which
Republicans seem to be attached to. But I should probably stop
interpreting him. :-)

> That should also include soccer, but unfortunately, it doesn't.

Btw, it's called "football" and not "soccer" (or, even more accurate in
my part of the world which looks forward to a big tournament a few weeks
from now in this discipline: "Fußball"). :-)

Kind regards

[Mladen Gogala]

On Sun, 20 May 2012 23:37:22 +0200, Robert Klemme wrote:

> Btw, it's called "football" and not "soccer" (or, even more accurate in
> my part of the world which looks forward to a big tournament a few weeks
> from now in this discipline: "Fußball"). :-)

Ich weiss das es Fussball gennant ist. Mein Deutsch war ziemlich
fliessend aber in New York kann Man nicht Deutsche Sprache benutzen.


In English:
I know the name, my German is still usable, although I cannot use it too
much in New York City.

--
http://mgogala.byethost5.com

[joel garry]

On May 19, 3:42 am, Robert Klemme <shortcut...@googlemail.com> wrote:
> On 19.05.2012 03:28, Mladen Gogala wrote:
>
> > On Fri, 18 May 2012 14:49:46 -0700, joel garry wrote:
>
> >> Remember, in the world of Republicans, cutting expenses raises stock
> >> prices and helps the economy through magical Laffing Curves.
>
> > I don't think that republicans are much to blame for the current HP woes.
> > Neither are democrats. I don't see any connection with politics, at all.
>
> I think Joel was referring to the exaggerated believe in the market and
> the consequences for mindsets around the globe - especially in financial
> industry.  Raising stock price has become more important than securing
> the future of enterprises far too often.

You got it in one.

>
> > Meg only applies the same unimaginative therapy
> > as everybody else: layoffs.
>
> That's what Joel was referring to, I believe.

Yes, exactly. I agree with Mladen's opinion about political discourse
here, but sometimes I just can't resist the jab. I do disagree about
democrats and republicans having equal blame, but won't go on about it
here, except to note Meg Whitman put up $140M of her own dollars to
run for governor, failing miserably, in part because of the perception
of her heartless and mean treatment of her illegal immigrant
housekeeper, which does give some insight into jobs at HP.

>
> > Well, layoffs will not distinguish HP from their competitors.
>
> That's a very good point!  Unfortunately it seems to be ignored all too
> often.  Cost cutting by relocating work to countries with lower wages is
> another of those dreadful "best practices".  I think one of the reasons
> is that people are staring too much at numbers of things that can be
> easily measured (wages for example).  Things which do not have a price
> tag easily attached (e.g. additional time spent for home staff,
> communication overhead, cost of misunderstandings etc.) are simply non
> existent for these people.

Actually I think HP management is aware of that, and probably have a
realistic strategic view that you have to solve the immediate problem
before you can get into a growth mode. It's the tactics that are
effed up. I'm sure they are acutely aware what happened to DEC et al,
and would love to be a fly on the wall when they are talking about
S'noracle.

>
> > PA RISC was running circles around Intel chips, for a very,
> > very long time. I still remember the shock when I executed "uptime"
> > command on one HP-UX 9 running model 9000 and the answer that came back
> > was "2733 days". GLanceplus was light years ahead of top. OmniBack used
> > to be excellent.

I agree with all that, except I've seen OminBack be a big fail (back
in the 8.x days). I also had variable experiences with memory leaks
(rman in particular, more recently java and/or oms) that prevented
such long uptimes, but can believe what you say for other sites.
Can't say I was impressed by Autoraid, even nowadays storage hardware
that decides to move stuff around based on recent access history
fights with databases.

And of course, pa-risc was so good it led to us being on the Itanic...

jg
--
@home.com is bogus.

http://www.utsandiego.com/news/2012/may/17/killer-deal/

[Robert Klemme]

On 21.05.2012 00:19, Mladen Gogala wrote:
> On Sun, 20 May 2012 23:37:22 +0200, Robert Klemme wrote:
>
>> Btw, it's called "football" and not "soccer" (or, even more accurate in
>> my part of the world which looks forward to a big tournament a few weeks
>> from now in this discipline: "Fußball"). :-)
>
> Ich weiss das es Fussball gennant ist. Mein Deutsch war ziemlich
> fliessend aber in New York kann Man nicht Deutsche Sprache benutzen.

+1

:-)