Short Time formatted Date Field not allowing "24:00" entry...Help please?
Jim Suiter
Jim
KathyB41 <kath...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:19991102195609...@ng-cq1.aol.com...
> I am entering simple data on a form using BegTime and EndTime fields. All
was
> fine until I needed to enter 24:00 for midnight. I can enter 23:59, but
NOT
> 24:00. I get the error message "The value you entered isn't valid for
this
> field."
>
> I have the field in the table and the form formatted for Short Time.
>
> Can anyone help me?
>
> Thanks so much. -Kathy
Jim Suiter
start time?
Jim
KathyB41 <kath...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:19991102202218...@ng-cq1.aol.com...
> I've apparently never needed to use it before, and always thought of it as
24
> of 24 hours...
>
> I just tried it, but I'm using a DateDiff expression of
> ([EndTime]-[StartTime])/60 to come up with the number of hours/mins
between the
> two times. Was working except using 00:00 - 22:00 gives me -22 hours.
Any
> thoughts? Thanks again. I really appreciate the help...sometimes I just
have
> a brainfade or something...
KathyB41
KathyB41
KathyB41
etc.
I've tried writing an expression to evaluate if EndTime = 0, then do something
else to BACK INTO the answer, but haven't got the math right yet.
Am I really missing the point here? Someone suggested making it a Date and
Time field, but the user really just wants to have to enter the 00:00 format.
This one is giving me a headache.
Thanks for the help...Kathy
Brendan Reynolds
1899. If I remember rightly (the original question has been snipped) I think
the problem was getting the difference between two times that spanned
midnight? Here's an example in SQL (quick and dirty example, not necessarily
the most efficient way to do it, please treat as for illustration purposes
only!)
SELECT tblTest.TestTime1, tblTest.TestTime2,
(DateDiff("h",[TestTime1],[TestTime2])) AS Diff,
IIf([Diff]<0,[Diff]+24,[Diff]) AS Adjusted
FROM tblTest;
--
Brendan Reynolds
bren...@indigo.ie
http://www.fortunecity.com/skyscraper/susumi/433/
KathyB41 <kath...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:19991103070158...@ng-cl1.aol.com...
JWild
today. It isn't... midnight tonight is tomorrow, and midnight today was
this morning.
KathyB41 wrote in message <19991103070158...@ng-cl1.aol.com>...
Michael (michka) Kaplan
if it is then adding a "day" in code by adding 1 to the number.
The Access date/time field is really not designed with elapsed
time in mind, its designed with date/time values in mind.
--
MichKa
-------------------------------------
don't send questions by e-mail unless
you're paying for it. (TANSTAAFL!) :-)
random junk of dubious value, replica
error and problem fixing, and the
*TSI Form/Report to Data Access Page Wizard*, at:
http://www.trigeminal.com
KathyB41 <kath...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:19991102202218...@ng-cq1.aol.com...
Lyle Fairfield
clearly they are the same time (00:00 = 24:00) else there would be some time
between them which was of neither today or tomorrow.
It's probably Time for me to Shut Up!
--
Lyle
http://www.cyriv.com/
jw...@tyenet.com (JWild) wrote in
<w2YT3.75926$y45.9...@news4.giganews.com>:
JWild
23:59:59. The next second 0:00:00 is the beginning of tomorrow which is
considered midnight.
Try this in the debug window
IsDate("23:59")
True
IsDate("24:00")
False
Lyle Fairfield wrote in message
<8E73781DClylef...@24.226.64.57>...
Lyle Fairfield
point of view of the International System of Measurement and of Logic there
is, and it is the same time as 00:00:00. I think this may help in
understanding why Access's arithmetic with hours and minutes is a tad
confusing at times, which is why I posted.
As far as the end of the day being 23:59:59,
where is 23:59:59.2?
Yes, I know, Access does not display anything greater than 23:59:59. The
reason it doesn't have to is simple; 24:00:00 and 00:00:00 are the same
times. Access has arbitrarily decided to include that time in the"next" day,
when, in fact, it is part of both today and tomorrow. But since the point in
time is infinitely small, it exists only as an idea.There is no actual
manifestation of any time. We can deal with times only as things we are
before, or things that we are after; we are never THERE in any static way,
but we pass THERE! (Xeno's Paradox).
AND
Sub test()
Dim dtm1 As Date, dtm2 As Date
dtm1 = (23& * 60& * 60& + 59& * 60& + 59!) / (24& * 60& * 60&)
dtm2 = (23& * 60& * 60& + 59& * 60& + 59.2!) / (24& * 60& * 60&)
Debug.Print dtm1 ' ... 11:59:59 PM
Debug.Print dtm2 ' ... 11:59:59 PM
Debug.Print (dtm1 = dtm2) '... False
End Sub
--
Lyle
http://www.cyriv.com/
JWild <jw...@tyenet.com> wrote in message
news:%31U3.49081$7I4.9...@news5.giganews.com...
JWild
Lyle Fairfield wrote in message ...
>I suppose from Access's point of view there is no 24:00:00.
And that is really all that matters, I think, in the context of the original
post.
Jim Suiter
00:00 and 24:00? It is illogical.
Jim
Lyle Fairfield <lyle...@cyriv.com> wrote in message
news:s21fjf...@news.supernews.com...
> > Lyle Fairfield wrote in message
KathyB41
the actual Date is moot, this is simply to calculate a billable hours number
for each time segment throughout the day...
Thanks to all...I was getting a little scared there when you took a turn to
24:00, no 24:00 - but interesting....KB
Robin Stoddart-Stones
and looked at the help there on times:
if your times are likely to cross midnight then use the midnight
operator (-1)
But Datediff can be a clumsy way to find the difference between two
times: try
dt=#00:00#
dt1=#22:00#
?format(dt-1-dt1,"short time")
22:00
or
dt=#01.30#
?hour(dt-1-dt1)
20
?minute(dt-1-dt1)
30
And if you want the whole lot tidier and in minutes
dt2=dt-1-dt1
?hour(dt2)*60+minute(dt2)
1230
of course if your timespans should be longer than 24 hours then you
will have to either use logic or dates
Have Fun
Robin
Lyle Fairfield
--
Lyle
http://www.cyriv.com/
c dot grimsby at worldnet dot att dot net (Chuck Grimsby)
wrote in <WPohOHakBN1jCM...@4ax.com>:
>On Wed, 3 Nov 1999 17:59:58 -0500, "Lyle Fairfield"
><lyle...@cyriv.com> wrote:
>
>>I suppose from Access's point of view there is no 24:00:00.
>>But from the point of view of the International System of
>>Measurement and of Logic there is, and it is the same time
>>as 00:00:00.
>
>
>Actually, Lyle, there never has been a time of "24:00". It
>may be in "common usage", but there never has been a such a
>thing, nor can there be.
>
>The military (which is where most people learn of "24 hour"
>time notation) prefers their people to =say= "24 hundred
>hours" rather then "Zero Hours" to avoid misunderstandings.
>(The term "Zero hour" is often used to indicate the start
>time of an event.) The statement "We'll begin operations at
>0300, everybody meet at 0 hours", might be misunderstood to
>mean "meet at 3am".
>
>The people who keep time however, know that there can not
>possibly be 24th hour, even though it's usage in language
>might be popular. Nor can there be a 60th minute, 60th
>second, etc.
>
>(The above assumes "standard" time-keeping methods. There
>are other models of course, however they do not pertain to
>this discussion.)
>
>------
>Please Post Any Replies To This Message Back To the
>Newsgroup. There are "Lurkers" around who can benefit by our
>exchange!
>
Michael (michka) Kaplan
I suggest that you either
(a) pull up a source for your claim that Access is somehow
violating a standard from the "International System of
Measurement and of Logic" [sic], or
(b) make good on your offer to shut up about it now.
You are misleading folks with your answers at this point.....
which is usually the point where (b) should be happening -- in
fact I was overjoyed when you volunteered to do so, in these
circumstances.
--
MichKa
-------------------------------------
don't send questions by e-mail unless
you're paying for it. (TANSTAAFL!) :-)
random junk of dubious value, replica
error and problem fixing, and the
*TSI Form/Report to Data Access Page Wizard*, at:
http://www.trigeminal.com
Lyle Fairfield <lyle...@CyRiv.Com> wrote in message
news:8E74E1127lylef...@24.226.64.57...
Lyle Fairfield
http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/~mgk25/iso-time.html
A Summary of the International Standard Date and Time Notation
by Markus Kuhn
...
As every day both starts and ends with midnight, the two notations 00:00 and
24:00 are available to distinguish the two midnights that can be associated
with one date. This means that the following two notations refer to exactly the
same point in time:
1995-02-04 24:00 = 1995-02-05 00:00
....
--
Lyle
http://www.cyriv.com/
orignal_f...@spamless.trigeminal.spamless.com (Michael (michka) Kaplan)
wrote in <#Kqn##4J$GA.267@cpmsnbbsa03>:
Lyle Fairfield
Date elements and interchange formats -
Information interchange - Reperesentation of dates and times
5.3.2 Midnight
The complete and extended representations for midnight , in accordance with
5.3.1, shall be expressed in either of the two following ways:
Basic format Extended format
a) 000000 00:00:00 (the beginning of a day);
b) 240000 24:00:00 (the end of a day)
...
NOTES
1 Midnight will normally be represented as [0000] or [2400]
2 The choice of representation a) or b) will depend upon any assocation with a
date, or a time period.
3 The end of one day (2400) coincides with (0000) at the start of the next day,
e.g. 2400 on 12 April 1985 is the same as 0000 on 13 April 1985. If there is no
assoication with a date or a time period both a) and b) represent the same
clock time in the 24-hour timekeeping system.
**********
This document can be seen and printed (pdf) at
http://www.iso.ch/markete/8601.pdf
I recommend it for anyone who might have some interest in the topic.
Lyle Fairfield
http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/~mgk25/iso-time.html
http://www.iso.ch/markete/8601.pdf
Print out the documents and read them.
--
Lyle
http://www.cyriv.com/
c dot grimsby at worldnet dot att dot net (Chuck Grimsby)
wrote in <rzYjOFhTduQ7cN...@4ax.com>:
>
>
>No, Lyle, it's not. It's reality.
>
>On Fri, 05 Nov 1999 03:25:14 GMT, lyle...@CyRiv.Com (Lyle
>Fairfield) wrote:
>
>>That is total bunk, Chuck.
>
Lyle Fairfield
http://tycho.usno.navy.mil/search.html
but could find nothing that addresses this issue. In any case I'm unwilling to
accept the authority of an institution renowned for lieing, (not to mention,
bullying) such as the US Navy. Oh wait, that explains it; I see what you mean
now. If I don't agree you'll get them to anchor a nuclear carrier in Lake
Ontario and bomb, strafe and rocket attack my community. Will this include
napalm for the kids, Chuck? Is that it?
So, since you didn't quote any authorities of your own, I guess I have to
choose between believing you or ISO and Markus. Who is Markus (the person who
wrote:"As every day both starts and ends with midnight, the two notations 00:00
and 24:00 are available to distinguish the two midnights that can be associated
with one date. This means that the following two notations refer to exactly the
same point in time:1995-02-04 24:00 = 1995-02-05 00:00"?
Funny, you should ask. This is straight from Markus's web site:
"Welcome!
My name is Markus Günther Kuhn (rhymes with moon) and I was born 1971-01-01 in
Munich, Germany. I grew up in Munich and later Uttenreuth near Erlangen (that
is here on a map), Germany. I received a graduate degree in Computer Science
(Dipl.-Inf.) at the University of Erlangen in July 1996. Subsequently, I spent
one year in the U.S. at Purdue University (Fulbright scholarship), where I did
some computer security reseach and received the Master's degree in August 1997.
Since October 1997, I have been working on a Ph.D. project in the Security
Group at the Computer Laboratory of the University of Cambridge in England
(Marie Curie scholarship). Eventually, I would like to teach and research at a
university or develop tricky high-tech systems somewhere on this planet.
My scientific interests include:
Computer Security, Hardware Security, Cryptology, Steganography, Intellectual
Property Protection Technology
Global-Scale Distributed Databases, Joint Administration, Digital Libraries,
SGML
Communication Systems, Computer Networks
Operating Systems, Linux
Digital Signal Processing, Advanced Video and Audio Technology, Data
Compression
International Standardization
Embedded Systems
Neural Physiology
Some of my special skills and fields of knowledge include pay-TV conditional
access systems, compromising emanations (Tempest), VLSI reverse engineering,
tamper resistance, smartcard systems, analyzing security systems, UNIX system
administration, POSIX/C/Ada system programming, textual-image compression, bus-
encryption processors, high precision timekeeping, timezone and calendar
algorithms, real-time programming, information and coding theory, modem
technology, character sets, Unicode, microcontrollers, efficient algorithms and
data structures, neural networks, and a few other topics about which I publish
and provide consultancy services occasionally.
Apart from this stuff, I enjoy bike riding, juggling, dancing, CCD astronomy,
USENET, BBC Radio 4, Apfelsaftschorle, unsolved problems, discussions with
interesting people, and torturing innocent pianos.
How you can contact me
Markus G. Kuhn
University of Cambridge
Computer Laboratory, TG1
New Museums Site, Pembroke Street
Cambridge CB2 3QG
United Kingdom
Phone: +44 1223 3-34676
Fax: +44 1223 3-34678
Email: Marku...@cl.cam.ac.uk
mg...@cam.ac.uk (forwarded)
mk...@acm.org (forwarded)
At the moment, I am quite busy with various interesting projects. In addition,
my electronic mailbox is quite overcrowded. Therefore, please do not be angry
if I do not have the time to answer your mail. If your message was urgent, then
write again if I do not answer within a few days. Also please make sure that
your email return address is really reachable when you expect a reply from me.
And please do not try to contact me with Unix talk, better use email.
Secure email: For confidential messages, use PGP 2.6.3i and encrypt the email
with my public key. This key is changed occasionally, but it and and all future
of my public keys are signed with my high-security signing key (HSK)
(fingerprint F0 49 0D 10 F0 FA F6 5B E7 BC 78 54 5F 6E 46 2E, length 1024 bit).
If you want to send me files: Please do not send me proprietary word processor
files (FrameMaker, StarOffice, WordPerfect, Word, etc.). I prefer texts in
plain ASCII, ISO 8859-1, UTF-8, PDF, PostScript, HTML, TeX, and MIME, as well
as files packed with tar, gzip, uuencode, pkzip, and everything else for which
tools are freely available as open source code for POSIX systems such as Linux.
I do not use any Microsoft operating system.
Digital Publications
If you want to read any of the PDF files below, please make sure first that you
have Adobe Acrobat Reader 3.01 or newer installed. Please do not copy any of my
publications onto your own Internet server for public access without explicit
permission. If you want to refer to any of my texts, please use a hyperlink to
my original and not a copy. I update these texts frequently and and I want to
prevent the confusion that arises if people read somewhere else obsolete
versions that are not under my control.
English texts
Design Principles for Tamper-Resistant Smartcard Processors appeared in the
USENIX Workshop on Smartcard Technology proceedings, Chicago, Illinois, USA,
May 10-11, 1999 (slides) and describes a broad range of techniques to
compromise the security of smartcards and discusses countermeasures.
Soft Tempest: Hidden Data Transmission Using Electromagnetic Emanations,
appeared in David Aucsmith (Ed.): Information Hiding, Second International
Workshop, IH'98, Portland, Oregon, USA, April 15-17, 1998, Proceedings, LNCS
1525, Springer-Verlag, ISBN 3-540-65386-4, pp. 124-142. This paper presents a
few interesting new twists on eavesdropping computers using their compromising
electromagnetic emanations as well as some software protection techniques
(slides).
Tamper Resistance - a Cautionary Note appeared in The Second USENIX Workshop on
Electronic Commerce Proceedings, Oakland, California, November 18-21, 1996, pp
1-11 (PDF version, slides, presentation notes) and is an early describtion of
attack techniques on smartcards and other security processors.
Low Cost Attacks on Tamper Resistant Devices appeared in M Lomas et al. (ed.),
Security Protocols, 5th International Workshop, Paris, France, April 7-9, 1997,
Proceedings, Springer LNCS 1361, pp 125-136, ISBN 3-540-64040-1.
Probability Theory for Pickpockets - ec-PIN Guessing was a talk I gave at the
DREI'97 workshop at Ruttgers University, New Jersey, to an audience of high
school math teachers to demonstrate how probability theory is important for the
design of secure computer applications. The text describes a now well-known
weakness in the PIN algorithm used with German EuroCheque cards and was later
reprinted in Datenschleuder.
Attacks on Pay-TV Access Control Systems was a talk that I presented 1997-12-09
in the Cambridge Security Seminar (slides only).
Analysis of a Denial of Service Attack on TCP, Proceedings IEEE Symposium on
Security and Privacy 1997, Oakland, California.
The TrustNo1 Cryptoprocessor Concept, CS555 Report, Purdue University, April
1997 gives an idea of how the software copy protection of the future could look
like.
Standards FAQ, posted periodically to USENET groups comp.std.misc and
news.answers. This text summarizes useful information about international
technical standards (ISO, ITU, ECMA, etc.). For related information, you might
also want to have a look at the anonymous ftp server archive
ftp://ftp.informatik.uni-erlangen.de/pub/doc/ISO/. I also wrote the
comp.protocols.iso FAQ with some information about OSI protocols a few years
ago. These texts are not very up-to-date at the moment.
Specification of the EBS File Format for Bio-Signals. A proposal for a standard
computer file format suitable for recording, processing and archiving of
biological and medical signals (e.g. ECG, EEG, MEG, etc.). For more information
and public domain software, please check our ftp archive ftp://ftp.uni-
erlangen.de/pub/ebs/.
International Standard Date and Time Notation is a brief introduction into the
ISO 8601 standard. If you have never heard about this standard before, you
definitely should read this text. There is also a description of International
Standard Paper Sizes, i.e. formats like A4, which are used today everywhere
outside North America. I wrote this text in the hope to convince folks in the
U.S. to give up their strange paper formats, which only cause headaches all
over the planet for users of word processors, laser printers, and copying
machines. There is also a new text about metric font sizes.
Standardized Units for Use in Information Technology is my proposal for a
formal international standard that would finally provide an authoritative
answer to questions like "How many bytes are there in a megabyte?" and "What is
the correct symbol for kilobyte?". Discussion is welcome.
A survey of POSIX.1b Compatibility and Real-Time Support in the Linux operating
system.
A brief summary of the Digital Video Broadcast (DVB) Standard, which specifies
the digital TV broadcasting technology that is currently being introduced in
many countries.
There is also a text about the new EU directive on the legal protection of
encrypted services, against earlier drafts of which I did some lobbying (with
success it seems).
Information for New Ada95 Programmers summarizes useful information I came
across when I started to learn what I now consider to be a very good large-
systems programming language. See also the Ada for Linux Team Page.
Effective Scientific Electronic Publishing contains a number of tips for
preparing online papers, mostly intended for our local research group, but
probably useful for others as well who want to generate nice PDF files with
LaTeX.
Analysis of the Nagravision Video Scrambling Method discusses methods of how to
decode in realtime without a regular decoder box the pay-TV conditional access
system used for instance by the German broadcaster Premiere.
The UTF-8 and Unicode FAQ for Unix/Linux explains how UTF-8 will replace ASCII
and ISO 8859-1 in the Linux/Unix world.
I have designed two Unicode subsets, the Very Simple European Character Set
(VSECS) and the Simple European Character Set (SECS). I hope that having
commonly agreed Unicode subsets of manageable size (350 and 700 characters)
will help to make 16-bit character sets more quickly acceptable in non-Asian
countries. These sets are now mostly obsolete design experiments, which have
recently been merged with the CEN/TC304 work on Multilingual Subsets (MES) to
which I also contributed.
I am also involved in designing a new Time and Calendar API for the C
Programming Language that provides much more robust leap-second and timezone
handling and that will hopefully get into ISO C 9X.
German texts
Sicherheitsanalyse eines Mikroprozessors mit Busverschlüsselung, Diplomarbeit,
Lehrstuhl für Rechnerstrukturen, IMMD III, Universität Erlangen-Nürnberg,
Erlangen, Juli 1996, my diploma thesis about the tamper-resistance of security
processors in which I developed a low-cost attack for the DS5002FP bus-
encryption processor.
Effiziente Kompression von bi-level Bilddaten durch kontextsensitive
arithmetische Codierung, Studienarbeit, Lehrstuhl für Betriebssysteme, IMMD IV,
Universität Erlangen-Nürnberg, Erlangen, Juli 1995, the project report on my
JBIG implementation.
Die Fibonacci-Zahlen, Facharbeit, Emil-von-Behring Gymnasium, Spardorf, Januar
1990, my high-school thesis in maths about Fibonacci numbers.
Kompressionsverfahren für Multimediadaten, a seminar paper giving a brief
overview of modern data compression algorithms for multimedia data, such as
JPEG, MPEG video, MPEG audio, and JBIG, including their theoretical foundations
like entropy, Karhunen-Loève transformation, and the discrete cosine transform.
Authentisierung in verteilten Systemen, Ferienakademie im Sarntal, Italy,
September 1994.
Kleine Einführung in die Welt des USENET is a short tutorial about the USENET
and the nn user interface for it.
Software
I have recently prepared an ISO 10646-1 extension of the X11 6×13 fixed default
font.
My filtered Tempest fonts are a simple implementation example of a low-cost VDU
eavesdropping prevention technique that we proposed in our Soft Tempest paper.
(They are intended for developers, not for end users.)
There is also my Ada95 reference implementation of the Serpent encryption
algorithm that was submitted by Anderson, Biham, and Knudsen to the AES
contest. Serpent is designed to be faster than DES and more secure than Triple-
DES. There are now also other independent AES candidate Ada implementations by
Mike Roe available. There is also a note on a bit naming convention for
cryptographic algorithms, which I wrote as a response to the notational
Endianess confusion of some AES contributions.
OTPW is a robust one-time password package with C routines that can easily be
added to Unix password verification programs such as login or ftpd. I designed
it to be more robust against certain denial-of-service attacks than many S/Key
based systems.
StirMark is a robustness testing tool for steganographic watermarking
algorithms. About our experiences with StirMark see also our paper Attacks on
copyright marking systems, Information Hiding, Second International Workshop,
IH'98, Portland, Oregon, USA, April 15-17, 1998, Proceedings, LNCS 1525,
Springer-Verlag, ISBN 3-540-65386-4, pp. 219-239.
In late 1993, I experimented with image processing algorithms that reverse the
scrambling of pay-TV encryption systems. In spring 1994, I developed the
Season7 MS-DOS software and an adapter hardware that allows to replace a BSkyB
subscriber smartcard by a PC. A few months later, I wrote the Phoenix software
which enabled deactivated subscription cards. Various information about the
VideoCrypt pay-TV encryption system and my experimental software for decoding
scrambled images is still available on ftp://ftp.informatik.uni-
erlangen.de/pub/multimedia/tv-crypt/. I used to receive many e-mail requests
about this topic. Please apologize if I do not have the time to answer most of
them, better ask in the USENET group alt.satellite.tv.crypt. Please see also my
old frequently answered questions list.
My freely available JBIG-KIT portable ANSI C library, which implements a highly
effective lossless bi-level image compression algorithm based on context
sensitive arithmetic coding, can be downloaded from ftp://ftp.informatik.uni-
erlangen.de/pub/doc/ISO/JBIG/. The JBIG algorithm (specified in ITU-T
Recommendation T.82), which is implemented in this library, is especially
suitable for compressing scanned documents and fax pages. You can also download
the (unfortunately German) project report (Studienarbeit) that I wrote about
JBIG-KIT (abstract).
I have developed a driver for the audio mixer on the miroSOUND PCM12 soundcard.
It is now distributed as part of Linux 2.0.
Recommended Reading
Here are some texts and papers written by others that I think you should have
read:
The Critical Thinking Community observes with concern that student essays are
more often graded based on the demonstrated convincing speech skills rather
than on whether a careful analysis has been performed. We might be educating a
generation that values good presentation over good reason. Especially if you
are a teacher, I hope you will find some of the critical thinking literature
available on the net both useful and thought provoking.
Fred Cohen's The Seedy Side of Security is a nice essay on the rather bizarre
way in which media reports about computer security issues and why, as a
consequence, corporations spend large amounts of money for snake-oil security
consulting.
Peter Gutman's Auckland - Your Y2K Beta Test Site is a report about the longest
power outage experienced in a large metropolitan area so far. It nicely
illustrates how sensitive our societies' infrastructures have become to
technological single points of failure.
ESA's Ariane 5 Flight 501 Failure Report describes the details of the
spectacular June 1996 explosion of the new European satellite launcher caused
by a software error.
Eric S. Raymond's The Cathedral and the Bazaar discusses the fascinating
economic principles behind the Open Source model of collaborative software
development that has led to the tremendous success of projects like Linux and
Apache. You might also want to read a recently leaked internal Microsoft memo
on the serious threat that Open Source Software now presents to their business
model.
If you like entertaining, interesting, and sometimes bizarre science, then read
Dr. Karl Kruszelnicki's Great Moments in Science.
Erik Naggum on Security and Censorship.
Conferences
Some upcoming conferences and workshops in which I am somehow interested or
involved:
IEEE Symposium on Security and Privacy, May 14-17, 2000, The Claremont Resort
Oakland, California, USA. Submission deadline 1999-10-29.
9th USENIX Security Symposium, August 14-17, 2000, Denver, Colorado, USA.
Submission deadline 2000-02-10.
This Web page is HTML 3.2 Checked and GIF Free!
created ~1993 -- last modified 1999-10-05 -- http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/~mgk25/"
Lemme see now
shall I believe
ISO and Markus and this other guy who scored at top of scale (800) on the
Numeric part of the Graduate Records Examination?
or Chuck????
This is a toughie, but I'll struggle with it and try to have an answer by 2400.
Lyle
c dot grimsby at worldnet dot att dot net (Chuck Grimsby)
wrote in <x4okOJAb+rwE3S...@4ax.com>:
>
>Yes, Lyle, print them out and read them!
>
>You'll discover ISO 8601 isn't worth the paper it's printed
>on, let alone the ink you wasted, and no where =near= what
>your time was worth!
>
>ISO 8601 allows you create =whatever= format you choose as
>long as the person who's sending information says "it works
>this way", and the recipient agrees (whether or not they have
>a choice in it).
>
>This is why ISO 8601 is useless for Y2K work, for another
>example. The date 01/02/03 is perfectly valid as long as the
>meanings of which part is what is maintained.
>
>There's a "standard" we can all agree to! It's "right"
>regardless of anything else!
>
>You might want to see the documents at tyco or navy.mil. I
>can't remember the URLs right off the top of my head
>(bookmarks are on the other computer which is being mean to
>me right now), but you might be able to find some supporting
>documents there.
>
>Or try a web search on "horology", which is what the study of
>time is called.
>
>
>On Sat, 06 Nov 1999 18:45:37 GMT, lyle...@CyRiv.Com (Lyle
>Fairfield) wrote:
>
>>
>>http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/~mgk25/iso-time.html
>>http://www.iso.ch/markete/8601.pdf
>>
>>Print out the documents and read them.
>
>------
>Please Post Any Replies To This Message Back To the
>Newsgroup. There are "Lurkers" around who can benefit by our
>exchange!
--
Lyle
http://www.cyriv.com/
Lyle Fairfield
c dot grimsby at worldnet dot att dot net (Chuck Grimsby)
wrote in <oOMlOMPMDnX9eE...@4ax.com>:
>Fine Lyle, believe whatever you want. Just don't come
>running to us when you have a problem with your "belief".
One of the most disappointing things in the recent wars in this group is the
arrogance of a few regulars whose attitude is, "Believe as we believe, or we
shall banish you unto everlasting darkness." I think it MAY have been I, myself
who started the current "plonk" craze, and it's something I regret. The idea
that some people in this group have such a lock on knowledge about Access that
they should be able to throw their weight around in that fashion is ludicrous
and is a manifestation of great arrogance, or maybe great insecurity.
>But then again....
>If 00:00 = 24:00, does 23:60 = 24:00?
>How about 23:59:60 = 24:00:00?
>If not, why not?
Yes, to all of the above.
>Hey, if the above examples work, 24:1440:00 and 24:00:86400
>should work great too!
Ditto
>Good luck getting Microsoft (and every other company that
>makes programming languages) to change!
We specified early in the thread that MS used only 00:00 to designate midnight.
The first post in the thread shows how useful it would be were they to
introduce 24:00 to indicate midnight as the final point of time in a day, while
using 00:00 to indicate the first point of time in a day.
Without 24:00 we have no point where the day ends. For between every two
distinct points in time there is another point.
If today ends at 23:59:59 what day is 23:59:59.5 in?
Only if a day ends at the same point that the next one begins can we have a
logical last point in time of the day.
><<an awful lot of text pasted from a website that doesn't
><<have much to do with this discussion snipped>>
I believe someone wanted me to "pull up a source". Unfortunately, since he is
Never_Wrong he ignored the several which I provided, as you, apparently, are
doing as well. The only difference is that your action surprises me.
It's OK to be wrong; I have been many times, but this isn't one of them.
--
Lyle
http://www.cyriv.com/
Lyle Fairfield
c dot grimsby at worldnet dot att dot net (Chuck Grimsby)
wrote in <vzknONdzLPZV0j...@4ax.com>:
>We may just have to end this thread agreeing to disagree
>though.
--
Lyle
http://www.cyriv.com/
Vanderghast
Sorry: 23:59:60 is not 24:00:00 ( or 00:00:00), it is the sixty-first
second, used to designated a leap second (one occurs around each 500 days).
No database I know care about that leap second. Twenty-two leaps seconds
occurred since 1972, time at which that convention had been established. If
you "don't care" about that leap second, you may say 23:59:50 is 24:00:00,
but it is interesting to know some others "won't don't" care.
(There is a need to establish that correction because a second is define on
some period of caesium 133, something quite constant, and a day is defined
with respect to earth rotation, not constant, but decreasing (good news, the
moon is escaping, not going to crash on earth, but like an artist on ice,
the momentum has to stay constant, so, earth turn slower and slower...). So,
with 24 hours a days, 60 minutes an hour, the correction is done on the
60-61 seconds a minute).
Vanderghast, Access MVP.
Lyle Fairfield <lyle...@CyRiv.Com> wrote in message
news:8E78BD5Dlylef...@24.226.64.57...
> Comments below:
>
> c dot grimsby at worldnet dot att dot net (Chuck Grimsby)
alexyap
It has been interesting and educational watching this conversation. I have
collated all ideas and was able to come up with an IIf function applicable
to my database.....getting the correct difference (not negative) between two
time.
I am doing a small A2K application to keep track of time usage of a certain
computer as well as keeping track of the day's sales. However, I have come
to a stumbling block. I couldn't get the IIf function results for all
records to be added so I can have a total. I keep getting this: #Error.
TimeUsed1 = DateDiff("n",[TimeIn],[TimeOut])
TimeUsed2 = IIf([TimeUsed1]<0,[TimeUsed1]+1440,[TimeUsed1]) '1440
being minutes in 24 hours
The end result that I would like to achieve is to get the total of
[TimeUsed2]. I believe that this can be achieved but I just don't have any
idea how to go about it. I would appreciate any enlightenment. This group
has been very helpful.
Thanks,
Darl Rodriguez
Michael (michka) Kaplan
<orignal_f...@spamless.trigeminal.spamless.com> wrote in message
news:OFZ9AKhJ$GA.292@cpmsnbbsa02...
> Simple solution is to check if time1 is less than time2.... and
> if it is then adding a "day" in code by adding 1 to the number.
>
> The Access date/time field is really not designed with elapsed
> time in mind, its designed with date/time values in mind.
>
> --
> MichKa
>
> -------------------------------------
> don't send questions by e-mail unless
> you're paying for it. (TANSTAAFL!) :-)
>
> random junk of dubious value, replica
> error and problem fixing, and the
> *TSI Form/Report to Data Access Page Wizard*, at:
> http://www.trigeminal.com
>
> KathyB41 <kath...@aol.com> wrote in message
> news:19991102202218...@ng-cq1.aol.com...
Lyle Fairfield
but I tend to think of it as a point in time, something without any magnitude.
I think you and Chuck may have been using one concept while I have been using
another.
Does the limit of a series as it approaches some number equal the number. Is
1.3 with the 3 repeated to infinity exactly equal to 1 and 1/3. Does it behave
in exactly the same fashion. I would say, "Yes". Can two entitities be
contiguous without sharing a point of union. I would say, "No".
So we are arguing views of the world and the phenomena we observe. I can see
that it's unlikely that we shall agree.
So, let's just leave it at that.
Vande...@email.msn.com (Vanderghast) wrote in
<u22Gk8pK$GA.70@cpmsnbbsa05>:
>Sorry: 23:59:60 is not 24:00:00 ( or 00:00:00), it is the
>sixty-first second, used to designated a leap second (one
>occurs around each 500 days).
--
Lyle
http://www.cyriv.com/
Robin Stoddart-Stones
time is different if you consider it today or tomorrow, go to Dev's
Site and look at the time manipulation. It may not help you format a
a datetime bound field to allow 24:00 entry, but it will help you get
a handle on the process of adding and subtracting time.
You do not need the iif, just the 'midnight operator' . If your
durations of any spell are going to be greater than 24 hours then you
will have to use some form of date identification ( eg:does 0800 to
0900 mean 1 hour or 25 or 49?)
If you want the 'correct' difference (not negative) then use
?1-(time1-(1*(time2>time1))-time2) as in the example below
time1=#08:00#
time2=#15:00#
time3=#05:00#
time4=#00:00#
?1-(time1-(1*(time2>time1))-time2)
0.291666666666667
?1-(time1-(1*(time3>time1))-Time3)
0.875
?1-(time1-(1*(time4>time1))-Time4)
16:00:00 (interesting that the midnight time should trigger a date
format while other times maintain the numeric format, however the
underlying value is a decimal)
Now all you have to do is sum those values to get your total time.
If you are on a form you can use the control before update to
increment the total value control. ( or use a second query to provide
a running total)
Have Fun
Robin
Now you can just sum the time
alexyap
I do appreciate your thoughts on this. You were able to shorten my
otherwise 3-step approach so as to arrive to a 'not-negative' time. Thanks.
However, correct me if I am wrong since you explicitly said I won't have any
problems getting the total time.........After I got all [TimeUsed2] results
using the procedure you shared below, I can't seem to sum its values get the
total time whether I repeat its calculations in my [Totals] control in my
subform's footer or use its control name (e.g..Sum=([TimeUsed2]). Any idea
why I get a #Error in my [Totals]? I might have missed something along the
way.
Do you mind <shy> enlightening me about incrementing the value in before
update? I haven't gotten around to a deeper understanding of codes, if that
is what you mean. I can live by wizards, macros & some built-in functions
though.
I did have fun,
Darl Rodriguez
Robin Stoddart-Stones <rst...@gmsproject.win-uk.net> wrote in message
news:3828820a...@news.btinternet.com...
Robin Stoddart-Stones
various times that the computer was used on successive rows. The
Total time is in an unbound control in your footer. You have declared
a variable TotalTime as date
One method of achieving this is to add the following code to the
before or after update of your second time field.
sub enddate_afterUpdate
TotalTime=TotalTime+ (1-(time1-(1*(time2>time1))-time2)
Me!ctlTotal=Format(totalTime,"hh:nn")
This will put a total in your footer.
Alternatively I got the Sum to work by putting
=Format(Sum(1-([StartTime]-(1*([endTime]>[StartTime]))-[endtime]));"Short
Time") in the total field in my footer.
have fun
Robin
On Thu, 11 Nov 1999 19:31:32 +0800, "alexyap" <arya...@skyinet.net>
wrote: