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Menu Creation with Access 2010 - Switchboard vs Navigation Form Pros & Cons - What is the best solution ?
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jpr.c...@gmail.com
Feb 19, 2014, 1:01:19 PM2/19/14
to
From forums Pros & Cons reading, I still do not see an emerging preference.
What is your advice ?
Thank you,
j.P.
What is your advice ?
Thank you,
j.P.
David Hare-Scott
Feb 19, 2014, 3:55:39 PM2/19/14
to
D
PW
Feb 20, 2014, 12:21:55 PM2/20/14
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Phil
Feb 20, 2014, 12:58:41 PM2/20/14
to
On 20/02/2014 17:21:59, PW wrote:
>
>>
For the number of forms & reports I have in one of my larger databases over
100 forms and about 130 reports, both would be pretty horrible. I use a
treeview type structure, with branches, smaller branches and twigs as it
were, with the branches generally being menus and sub menus and the twigs
down to the individual forms or reports. Depending on the user who is logged
on, different menus will appear, in as much as some menus, sub menus and
forms are not shown to less privileged users.
I can do pretty things with the treeview menu like change foreground and
background colours of the various items or use bold type.
Each item in the menu, optionally, has a description of what it is for.
If that gets too difficult, I have an alternative method of finding a form or
report by typing in a few letters from anywhere in the description and it
will show all forms or reports that contain those letters. So I, for example,
I type in “ea” it will find things like End Year or Clear Old Data
Phil
>
>>
For the number of forms & reports I have in one of my larger databases over
100 forms and about 130 reports, both would be pretty horrible. I use a
treeview type structure, with branches, smaller branches and twigs as it
were, with the branches generally being menus and sub menus and the twigs
down to the individual forms or reports. Depending on the user who is logged
on, different menus will appear, in as much as some menus, sub menus and
forms are not shown to less privileged users.
I can do pretty things with the treeview menu like change foreground and
background colours of the various items or use bold type.
Each item in the menu, optionally, has a description of what it is for.
If that gets too difficult, I have an alternative method of finding a form or
report by typing in a few letters from anywhere in the description and it
will show all forms or reports that contain those letters. So I, for example,
I type in “ea” it will find things like End Year or Clear Old Data
Phil
Ron Weiner
Feb 20, 2014, 1:40:45 PM2/20/14
to
PW explained :
I am an old fart and, me personally, I hate the *$%#@ Ribbon. I have
been maintaining all of my Access Databases in Access 2000 format, and
Create - Edit Menus in a Virtual Machine running Access 2K as
necessary. This way I have been able to successfully deploy to clients
who have any Access version from 2K through 2010 (and Probably 2013 but
not tested yet).
Perhaps the old axiom is true "Old Dogs Can't Learn New Tricks"!
Rdub
been maintaining all of my Access Databases in Access 2000 format, and
Create - Edit Menus in a Virtual Machine running Access 2K as
necessary. This way I have been able to successfully deploy to clients
who have any Access version from 2K through 2010 (and Probably 2013 but
not tested yet).
Perhaps the old axiom is true "Old Dogs Can't Learn New Tricks"!
Rdub
Access Developer
Feb 20, 2014, 2:15:32 PM2/20/14
to
"PW" <emailad...@ifIremember.com> wrote
> What's wrong with a ribbon menu?
I heard a one-hour presentation on The Ribbon by its "Daddy" before it was
revealed to the public -- most-selfserving presentation I'd seen in 20 or
more years; already defending it on the basis of "extensive usability
testing" before the public had seen it. There was no groundswell of
approval, no standing ovation by the audience of MVPs. The "need" was based
on "Office menus are so complex, they have to be simplified"; that was an
erroneous statement -- only Word's menus could remotely have been considered
complex, and it's still open to question whether The Ribbon is more
productive and easier to use. I am in the camp which believes The Ribbon is
less productive, less easy to use, and I'm far from alone in my views on the
subject.
I also saw the same fellow's two-and-a-half hour presentation given to the
Developer's Conference that year, and it simply confirmed my beliefs from
the earlier one. I have observed The Ribbon in use by its proponents, and
have used it myself (just as little as possible) and still don't like it,
don't think it's easier, and don't see that its more productive.
There are, however, clever lads and lassies who've created add-ins / add-ons
to restore most menu functionality, so if you must use Access 2007 and
later, you probably can do so without screaming, pulling out your hair,
lying on the floor, kicking with your heels, banging with your fists, and
holding your breath 'til you turn blue -- probably.
Larry Linson
Microsoft Access MVP
Co-Author, Microsoft Access Small Business Solutions, pub by Wiley, 2010
> What's wrong with a ribbon menu?
revealed to the public -- most-selfserving presentation I'd seen in 20 or
more years; already defending it on the basis of "extensive usability
testing" before the public had seen it. There was no groundswell of
approval, no standing ovation by the audience of MVPs. The "need" was based
on "Office menus are so complex, they have to be simplified"; that was an
erroneous statement -- only Word's menus could remotely have been considered
complex, and it's still open to question whether The Ribbon is more
productive and easier to use. I am in the camp which believes The Ribbon is
less productive, less easy to use, and I'm far from alone in my views on the
subject.
I also saw the same fellow's two-and-a-half hour presentation given to the
Developer's Conference that year, and it simply confirmed my beliefs from
the earlier one. I have observed The Ribbon in use by its proponents, and
have used it myself (just as little as possible) and still don't like it,
don't think it's easier, and don't see that its more productive.
There are, however, clever lads and lassies who've created add-ins / add-ons
to restore most menu functionality, so if you must use Access 2007 and
later, you probably can do so without screaming, pulling out your hair,
lying on the floor, kicking with your heels, banging with your fists, and
holding your breath 'til you turn blue -- probably.
Larry Linson
Microsoft Access MVP
Co-Author, Microsoft Access Small Business Solutions, pub by Wiley, 2010
PW
Feb 21, 2014, 4:11:19 PM2/21/14
to
-paulw
Albert D. Kallal
Feb 21, 2014, 6:35:51 PM2/21/14
to
wrote in message
news:2b78699d-da3e-4ca1...@googlegroups.com...
-----
For new applications, the switchboard s rather lame and is deprecated.
Really rather poor anyway.
For complex and LARGE applications?
The new navigation form is a complete winner. The result is a web like
interface, but one that can REALLY handle complex menus.
You can say have two rows of 15 options across the top, then any click gives
a 15 row choice below and ALSO a choice along the left side.
These navigation forms essentially like a tab control with multiple tabs,
but the forms are loaded dynamic so there not a speed cost if you have 20 or
400 forms in your application.
The other great advantage of this system is you can display report or forms
in that system.
I cannot provide screen shots since I am under contract for this
application, but it really amazing.
The switchboard provided a choice to launch a form. The navigation form
system allows one to build a application around the system and it totally
different idea - but one that works VERY well.
You can see a "tiny" bit of the screen shot in this PDF brochure:
http://www.pdqestimating.ca/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/PDQ-Brochure_WEB.pdf
In the second screen shot if you zoom in you see choices across the top and
then drills down along the left side.
This menu system scales VERY well in terms of complex applications - better
then any menu system I have used.
best regards,
--
Albert D. Kallal (Access MVP)
Edmonton, Alberta Canada
PleaseNoS...@msn.com
the software is NDA, but you can see "a bit" of the screen shot here:
news:2b78699d-da3e-4ca1...@googlegroups.com...
For new applications, the switchboard s rather lame and is deprecated.
Really rather poor anyway.
For complex and LARGE applications?
The new navigation form is a complete winner. The result is a web like
interface, but one that can REALLY handle complex menus.
You can say have two rows of 15 options across the top, then any click gives
a 15 row choice below and ALSO a choice along the left side.
These navigation forms essentially like a tab control with multiple tabs,
but the forms are loaded dynamic so there not a speed cost if you have 20 or
400 forms in your application.
The other great advantage of this system is you can display report or forms
in that system.
I cannot provide screen shots since I am under contract for this
application, but it really amazing.
The switchboard provided a choice to launch a form. The navigation form
system allows one to build a application around the system and it totally
different idea - but one that works VERY well.
You can see a "tiny" bit of the screen shot in this PDF brochure:
http://www.pdqestimating.ca/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/PDQ-Brochure_WEB.pdf
In the second screen shot if you zoom in you see choices across the top and
then drills down along the left side.
This menu system scales VERY well in terms of complex applications - better
then any menu system I have used.
best regards,
--
Albert D. Kallal (Access MVP)
Edmonton, Alberta Canada
PleaseNoS...@msn.com
the software is NDA, but you can see "a bit" of the screen shot here:
Access Developer
Feb 21, 2014, 8:43:54 PM2/21/14
to
If they provided that functionality in an automatic fashion, then good for
them. It's similar to what we've implemented with command buttons, combo
boxes, text boxes, etc.. But, er, if you have 15 x 15 choices, that is too
complex a form... 'way too complex. I've worked on many database
applications in which the plain switchboard was just fine; others where some
data input was added and useful.
The "Switchboard Manager" however, was overkill -- a complex solution to a
simple problem, with multiple forms and a table to implement what could/can
easily be created with a few forms and command buttons, it was not easily
maintainable (generally not maintainable at all through the 'manager' that
generated it).
I don't think the "Switchboard Manager" in 'classic Access' is what Albert's
writing about.
--
Larry Linson
Microsoft Office Access MVP
Co-Author, Microsoft Access Small Business Solutions, Wiley 2010
"Albert D. Kallal" <PleaseNOS...@msn.com> wrote in message
news:kpRNu.77294$tP5....@fx08.iad...
them. It's similar to what we've implemented with command buttons, combo
boxes, text boxes, etc.. But, er, if you have 15 x 15 choices, that is too
complex a form... 'way too complex. I've worked on many database
applications in which the plain switchboard was just fine; others where some
data input was added and useful.
The "Switchboard Manager" however, was overkill -- a complex solution to a
simple problem, with multiple forms and a table to implement what could/can
easily be created with a few forms and command buttons, it was not easily
maintainable (generally not maintainable at all through the 'manager' that
generated it).
I don't think the "Switchboard Manager" in 'classic Access' is what Albert's
writing about.
--
Larry Linson
Microsoft Office Access MVP
Co-Author, Microsoft Access Small Business Solutions, Wiley 2010
"Albert D. Kallal" <PleaseNOS...@msn.com> wrote in message
news:kpRNu.77294$tP5....@fx08.iad...
Phil
Feb 22, 2014, 3:55:43 AM2/22/14
to
http://www.flickr.com/photos/philofwaltonspics/12691803103/
it onle appears 3 levels deep, there is no limit to the number of menus, sub
menus & forms or reports. As you can see, I have expanded some nodes, so I
supose it really looks like a standard windows folder setup
Phil
---
This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active.
http://www.avast.com
Albert D. Kallal
Feb 22, 2014, 4:19:25 PM2/22/14
to
"Access Developer" wrote in message
news:bmqdmq...@mid.individual.net...
>I don't think the "Switchboard Manager" in 'classic Access' is what
>Albert's writing about.
> --
>Larry Linson
> Microsoft Office Access MVP
> Co-Author, Microsoft Access Small Business Solutions, Wiley 2010
Actualy, yes I was taking about the old switchboard since that is the
context of this question and the poster.
I will say many have used the switchboard in the past since you could add
"many" new menus and many new sub menus that appear as forms without having
to write one new line of code or add one button or add one form to the
application. So it was a table driven system that allowed one to to expand a
menu system.
So in the context of the posters original question?
Is the switch board still a valid choice? pros vs cons? as per the subject
line of this post?
I really never liked the switch board as you well note it was a bit complex.
However as noted it does allow one to create a menu system without code and
one could expand the switch board to many sub levels by just entering data
into a table (so it was table driven solution).
However as noted, the new navigation form system is MUCH more practical, and
produces not only a far more useful user interface, it also scales VERY well
in terms of complexity.
For applications don't have a lot of forms and don't require a lot of
"groupings" then the navigation system (or old switch board) for that matter
is not much required.
A few forms with buttons that launch some forms will suffice.
I feel the BIG advantage of the new navigation form system is that you can
see/edit/use a form with live data and HAVE MANY ACTIVE navigation options
and choices active AT THE SAME TIME. So additional navigation choices are in
full view and adding new navigation options does not require code.
The result is system that allows one to have a shipping form, but display
several tabs and drill down options for the shipping part of the system.
Normal forms or the switch board does NOT give you the option to have live
options to launch other forms based on the current grouping without having
to write code (and in full view/use). You can always code these things, but
as complexity increases, then the amount of work to write and code such
systems also increases - the navigation form system handles this increasing
complexity far better then any previous solution I seen. This includes those
with Visual Studio or other systems.
As noted, I will try and get permissions to post a series of screen shots of
current software that makes EXTENSIVE use of the new navigations. Of course
this software package sells for in excess of $100,000 so it not something
you going write in a few months or even a year of typical Access developer
time.
news:bmqdmq...@mid.individual.net...
>I don't think the "Switchboard Manager" in 'classic Access' is what
>Albert's writing about.
> --
>Larry Linson
> Microsoft Office Access MVP
> Co-Author, Microsoft Access Small Business Solutions, Wiley 2010
context of this question and the poster.
I will say many have used the switchboard in the past since you could add
"many" new menus and many new sub menus that appear as forms without having
to write one new line of code or add one button or add one form to the
application. So it was a table driven system that allowed one to to expand a
menu system.
So in the context of the posters original question?
Is the switch board still a valid choice? pros vs cons? as per the subject
line of this post?
I really never liked the switch board as you well note it was a bit complex.
However as noted it does allow one to create a menu system without code and
one could expand the switch board to many sub levels by just entering data
into a table (so it was table driven solution).
However as noted, the new navigation form system is MUCH more practical, and
produces not only a far more useful user interface, it also scales VERY well
in terms of complexity.
For applications don't have a lot of forms and don't require a lot of
"groupings" then the navigation system (or old switch board) for that matter
is not much required.
A few forms with buttons that launch some forms will suffice.
I feel the BIG advantage of the new navigation form system is that you can
see/edit/use a form with live data and HAVE MANY ACTIVE navigation options
and choices active AT THE SAME TIME. So additional navigation choices are in
full view and adding new navigation options does not require code.
The result is system that allows one to have a shipping form, but display
several tabs and drill down options for the shipping part of the system.
Normal forms or the switch board does NOT give you the option to have live
options to launch other forms based on the current grouping without having
to write code (and in full view/use). You can always code these things, but
as complexity increases, then the amount of work to write and code such
systems also increases - the navigation form system handles this increasing
complexity far better then any previous solution I seen. This includes those
with Visual Studio or other systems.
As noted, I will try and get permissions to post a series of screen shots of
current software that makes EXTENSIVE use of the new navigations. Of course
this software package sells for in excess of $100,000 so it not something
you going write in a few months or even a year of typical Access developer
time.
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