[Info-Ingres] Hot standby
jack jones
i've looked on the website but can't see if there are any definitions or usage terms or not arround what is classed as a standby system and what is just another Ingres Database.
thanks
Jack
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Roy Hann
>
> Does anyone know what the definitions are for hot-standby support from ingres
> or whether this is still available and what the price may be.
It's still on our price list; I've not been advised of any recent
update. The list price is just over a grand per processor, ex VAT. (I
say "per processor" because that's exactly what it says on the price
list, but everywhere else it says that it really means "per socket".)
> i've looked on the website but can't see if there are any definitions or usage terms
> or not arround what is classed as a standby system and what is just
> another Ingres Database.
The only description of a hot-standby system that I have seen is that it
is "for back-up purposes only". I take that to mean that Ingres can be
running, and that you can be replicating to it (using any reasonable
means), but you can't be using it in any production role (nor
for training, nor testing).
If you want, email me at rhann at rationalcommerce dot com and I will
look into getting a proper quote for you.
--
Roy
UK Ingres User Association Conference 2009 will be on Tuesday June 9, 2009
Go to http://www.iua.org.uk/join to get on the mailing list.
Robert Thornton-Davidson
Hot-standby is when a secondary server often 'mirroring' the processing of
the main system is ready to take over the processing load instantaneously,
should there be any failure in the main system.
If the secondary server requires manual intervention to take over from the
failed production server then this is either warm or cold standby this is
still a relative good way of providing duplicate systems in the event of
emergency.
Ingres has 2wo Hot-Standby pricing options ING-HS-2 for Ingres II (any 2.6
revision software) And ING-HS-DB-CORE for any Ingres 2006 + (9.1+ revision
software) which both attract the same list price to make it easy £1064.05
based on The Ingres End User Pricing 2008(Dated 18/08/08)
However these options are not required for warm or cold standby as only one
system is running at any one time.
As Ingres is Open Source from R3 and 2006+ onwards you only pay for the
support you require on Live Production and test environments. However if you
choose the Open Source model and then subsequently require support from
Ingres you may be charged for the pervious years you have had the software
installed as well as for the 12 months going forward.
Obviously to check the back ups and standby systems are working correctly
and to make sure your organisation is SOX compliant you will be expected to
test these systems on an annual basis and providing the testing on these
systems is done within the confines of your SOX compliance Ingres will not
have an issue.
I hope this helps, if you need any more advice please feel free to contact
me directly or use this forum.
Robert Thornton-Davidson
Sales and Marketing Director
Sandyx Systems
Mob: 0787 016 0934
(: 0870 350 7701
7: 0870 350 7702
*: robe...@sandyxsystems.co.uk
+ Unit 4 - Quays Reach - Carolina Way - Manchester - M50 2ZY
: www.sandyxsystems.co.uk
jack jones wrote:
--
Roy
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jack jones
So if we upgrade from 2.6 to 2006 we only pay for what we need support on as there are no licences anymore.
Therefore we could use back up systems and keep them on the same level of software and providing we're not using it for testing and it doesn’t automatically take over there is no additional licence payable to Ingres. Is that correct ?
Failing that if i wanted these systems supported it would cost £1k plus per socketper annum. Can anyone else provide open source on support or do we have to go to ingres the company?
Jack
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Roy Hann
> So if we upgrade from 2.6 to 2006 we only pay for what we need support
> on as there are no licences anymore.
It's not quite that simple. As I understand it (and I may well be
wrong), you can download executables for a stale version or a beta
version and use it without paying for the right-to-use. The GA
executables that you can download are for 30-day evaluation or paid
use only.
You can of course download the source code of the GA version and compile
it yourself and use that without restriction. But then if you ran into
a problem you'd be expected to fix it yourself too.
> Therefore we could use back up systems and keep them on the same level of software and providing we're not using it for testing and it doesn’t automatically take over there is no additional licence payable to Ingres. Is that correct ?
If Ingres is actually running, for the purpose of participating in a
replication scheme, that is probably not correct. However if you were
to do disk-level replication to a standby machine, and Ingres is not
normally running on it, you'd probably be OK. (The idea being that you
power-down the failed box and the standby box comes up with the same
host name, IP address, etc., so it's just replacing a failed machine.)
> Failing that if i wanted these systems supported it would cost £1k plus per
> socketper annum. Can anyone else provide open source on support or do
> we have to go to ingres the company?
At present, AFAIK, there is no one offering support on community
versions. All you get is community support--i.e. more-or-less well
informed, with no guarantees, no legal indemnification, and no
certification of the executables.
Note all the use of "probably" and "AFAIK" above. If you want to really
try this you'd need to get authoritative advice first. If you want, I
can ask for you, or you can contact Ingres.
Jim Callaghan
I think Roy has covered all the bases, but for absolute confirmation
and the latest pricing details, your best bet would be to contact
Ingres directly.
Feel free to use me as a point of contact and I can put your account
manager in touch with you.
Cheers,
Jim
Jim Callaghan
NEMEA Partner Manager, Ingres Europe Limited
Tel: +44 01753 559541
Mob: +44 07918 703786
jack jones
Thanks for your input , I’ve been contacted directly by Sandyx who have a lot
of the experience in migrating large complex systems like ours recently,
judging by their website, and will be able to take our or multiple databases
from 3.5 to 2006 (.9.1+) Open source on Linux and provide us with Open Source
support for the future.
What I'm not sure about however, is the stability of the open source version.
Should I at least have our production system supported like they recommend or
is it the understanding of the community that it’s quite stable now.
Cheers
Jack
> From: jim.ca...@ingres.com
> Date: Fri, 6 Mar 2009 05:38:24 -0800
> To: info-...@kettleriverconsulting.com
> Subject: Re: [Info-Ingres] Hot standby
>
> Info-Ingres mailing list
> Info-...@kettleriverconsulting.com
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Roy Hann
> What I'm not sure about however, is the stability of the open source version.
> Should I at least have our production system supported like they recommend or
> is it the understanding of the community that it’s quite stable now.
Well put it like this: the community executables are either stale or
they are beta-release. The stale versions might have bugs that are
fixed in a later GA release, and the beta versions might have new bugs
that no one has encountered yet. But either way you ought to assume
that there will be problems. You probably don't want to have to assume
that about your production system.
In addition to full support (which would include fixes if needed), the
GA version has passed the entire QA test suite so it is expected to be
more reliable, and Ingres Corporation will undertake to defend you if
someone feels the supported GA version you are running infringes their
intellectual property rights.
And just as a note to anyone looking for an Ingres Partner to provide
professional services, you can find companies (such as mine) on the
Partners Page (http://www.ingres.com/partners/partner-reseller.php) of
the Ingres website.
--
Roy
UK Ingres User Association Conference 2009 will be on Tuesday June 9, 2009
Go to http://www.iua.org.uk/join to get on the mailing list.
Robert Thornton-Davidson
a lot of patches for a number of customers installations that have the
current level of software and from our experience is not quite stable enough
for your production environment which is why Sandyx would recommend taking
additional support from Ingres direct @ 4256 GBP per slot or processor,
which we could manage for you, and pass the entire fee on to Ingres.
As an independent Ingres support company for over 10 years Sandyx have a
vested interest in making sure your company and the whole Ingres community
get the best advice even if it means we recommend you go elsewhere for
support.
Sandyx, unlike Ingres partners get no commission for recommending Ingres
products and services therefore we can be completely independent making sure
everyone gets the best independent advice and service.
Rgds
Robert Thornton-Davidson
Sales and Marketing Director
Sandyx Systems
Mob: 0787 016 0934
(: 0870 350 7701
7: 0870 350 7702
*: robe...@sandyxsystems.co.uk
+ Unit 4 - Quays Reach - Carolina Way - Manchester - M50 2ZY
: www.sandyxsystems.co.uk
-----Original Message-----
From: info-ingr...@kettleriverconsulting.com
[mailto:info-ingr...@kettleriverconsulting.com] On Behalf Of Roy Hann
Sent: 13 March 2009 12:36
To: info-...@kettleriverconsulting.com
Subject: Re: [Info-Ingres] Hot standby
jack jones wrote:
> What I'm not sure about however, is the stability of the open source
version.
> Should I at least have our production system supported like they recommend
or
> is it the understanding of the community that it?s quite stable now.
Well put it like this: the community executables are either stale or
they are beta-release. The stale versions might have bugs that are
fixed in a later GA release, and the beta versions might have new bugs
that no one has encountered yet. But either way you ought to assume
that there will be problems. You probably don't want to have to assume
that about your production system.
In addition to full support (which would include fixes if needed), the
GA version has passed the entire QA test suite so it is expected to be
more reliable, and Ingres Corporation will undertake to defend you if
someone feels the supported GA version you are running infringes their
intellectual property rights.
And just as a note to anyone looking for an Ingres Partner to provide
professional services, you can find companies (such as mine) on the
Partners Page (http://www.ingres.com/partners/partner-reseller.php) of
the Ingres website.
--
Roy
UK Ingres User Association Conference 2009 will be on Tuesday June 9, 2009
Go to http://www.iua.org.uk/join to get on the mailing list.
_______________________________________________
Info-Ingres mailing list
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Karl & Betty Schendel
On Mar 13, 2009, at 8:35 AM, Roy Hann wrote:
> jack jones wrote:
>
>> What I'm not sure about however, is the stability of the open
>> source version.
>> Should I at least have our production system supported like they
>> recommend or
>> is it the understanding of the community that it’s quite stable now.
>
> Well put it like this: the community executables are either stale or
> they are beta-release. The stale versions might have bugs that are
> fixed in a later GA release, and the beta versions might have new bugs
> that no one has encountered yet. But either way you ought to assume
> that there will be problems. You probably don't want to have to assume
> that about your production system.
Exactly.
The public subversion repository reflects the development code line.
For a production, supported release, Ingres Corp splits off a release
branch to which only essential bug fixes are applied. Now, those same
fixes are applied to the public code, but at the same time, ongoing
development might be breaking the public code in some new way
that is escaping the regularly run QA tests.
There are some people outside of Ingres Corp who are familiar enough
with the code base to be of material assistance if you are running
a community based build. (I am one.) If you run the community
version, and have problems, it's quite possible that someone will
eventually give you a hand in either fixing it, or identifying an
existing fix from the public code line. As Roy points out,
"possible" and "eventually" are not words that one normally wants
to have applied to one's production system.
The public code base is actually of quite good quality most of the
time. It's just that production is production. There is no
community mechanism at present for maintaining a "release
quality / stable" branch, and quite frankly I don't see any real
motivation to do that anyway. That's Ingres Corp's job,
it's expensive to do, and it's fair that they be compensated
for it.
Karl