Web Based Accounting Packages?
RickP
installing the software on a Windows2000 server using SQL2000 as the
database but want the remote locations to install a thin client utilizing
the web to connect to the server?
Michael Cooper
There are several out there. Of course if you are using Windows 2000
server, then you could take advantage of the Terminal Services built into
the O/S.
Mike.
RickP <ri...@jdbyrider.com> wrote in article
<LSL76.613$Cp1....@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net>...
Alan Whitehouse
Citrix or Windows Terminal Server. Most of the fully web based packages are
still too limited in their functionality.
Alan
"RickP" <ri...@jdbyrider.com> wrote in message
news:LSL76.613$Cp1....@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net...
dan...@my-deja.com
I responded on your other posting on another forum, alt.comp.accounting
I believe, but essentially, provided you with an option for a package
It works well with W2K and Citrix, runs on a SQL back end, and I have
used it at several client sites. Let me know if you're intersted in
more information.
What size business do you have? How many transactions do you process
weekly?
Dan
dedw...@lighthousegroup.com
> >
> >
>
>
Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/
Todd Boyle
Hi Rick, don't listen to those client/server guys, here are the real
webledgers! :-)
-Todd http://www.gldialtone.com
NetLedger http://www.netledger.com
BizTone http://www.biztone.com/
IntAcct http://www.intacct.com/
eLedger http://www.eledger.com/
ePeachtree http://www.epeachtree.com
NetAccount http://www.netaccount.com/
BizFinity http://www.bizfinity.com/accfinity.cfm
Quickbooks web http://www.quickbooks.com/quickbooks/qbweb/
vJungle http://www.vjungle.com/
NetVeil WebAccounts http://www.link-sys.com/
SecuredBooks http://www.securedbooks.com/
IndiaLedger http://www.indialedger.com
NewLedger http://www.newledger.com/
EdgeMail WebLedgers http://www.webledgers.com/ vaporware
CyberOffice http://www.cyberoffice.com vaporware
Accounter http://accounter.mit.edu/
OpenAccounts http://www.openaccounts.com/
FlagSys http://www.flagsys.com/ASP.html
App-e http://www.app-e.com/eng/applications.html
RDS http://www.rds-software.com/Frame/webeng/Primaindex.html
QSP http://www.qspinc.com/
MetalWare http://www.metalwareinc.com/
AccKnowledge http://www.m3as.com/FBMain.htm
Primacy http://www.primacycorp.com/
intERPro http://www.secureaccounting.net/
etc etc
(.........and don't tell me about ERP client/server G/Ls running
remote control over citrix. Those are not webledgers. )
dan...@my-deja.com
Thanks for the blasting, although I would like to rebut with some
advice: Always pay close attention to what the person posting the
question is asking for in their message. In this case, please note the
word web-based. A web-based package and a webledger can be considered
2 different solutions. Also please note that Rick would like remote
sites to run a thin client, like Citrix for example, and connect to a
server (Win2K server to be exact) via the web. Hence my mention of a
client-server solution.
Before spouting off that "client-server guys" don't know what they are
talking about and cram a boatload of URL's in someone's face, listen to
what they want and try to provide them a relevant solution. The
forum's are not for advertising, but for knowledge transfer. Or have
you used implemented and / or used all the packages you are
recommending?
Michael Cooper
Here here Alan!
I have a thought or two about web ledgers, watch out for the subsequent
flames, I expect I'll get quite a firing.
People like webledgers. People like the idea of being able to have a
client/server type system without the server (at least in-house). People
like the idea of no server hardware or software upgrades to implement.
People like paying a little bit of money for a lot of functionality.
I'm not most people. I'll call a spade a spade on my clients behalf. It's
time to call it as I see it. Web ledgers will serve some people. Web
ledgers won't serve many of my clients, here's why:
My client's aren't interested in allowing someone else to tiptoe through
their data. Anyone who believes they won't should review the privacy issue
currently at odds with many failing dot coms. When the chips are down,
they reserve the right to change their operational agreements and
potentially sell any data (so what if it's only your name and address). I
don't like letting anyone know that my financial data is only a password
away from any browser window.
My clients would rather spend money to have me guide them through the
upgrade process than to allow a third party to force upgrades that either
change functionality or eliminate parts of software they use (even if they
are the only one on earth that uses that feature). I decide when/if the
upgrade happens.
Some of my clients have complex accounting systems. I use industry
standard databases with known and released code. If their is a problem, I
can fix it. If I can't, then I use the vendor. I pay them good money to
listen to me and solve MY problem. Try getting that for $9.95/month.
Some of my clients need custom software. They may find that they need it a
long time after implementation. If it's web based and under the control of
someone else... what then?
Web based systems are slow. Period. We tested Netledger and eLedger (on
eLedger's first day of operation last June when no one was signed up yet
from the AICPA meeting in Atlanta). T-1 to the net on our side. No
excuses boys, they were dog slow. Sure, their acceptable at times, no
doubt. But anyone that says their acceptable all the time lies like a
politician. I used Netledger for a few months and it was acceptable for
someone who types rather slow probably 65-70% of the time. My clients pay
their employees to work 100% of the time. My client server operation is
fast, 99% of the time. When it's not, I can diagnose and fix the problem,
not sit on my hands and hope the net calms down.
I use Citrix, formerly on Terminal Server and now on Windows 2000. I can
host any system I choose to do so using MS SQL of course if I want (which
was the original posters desire). I connect across the net for my purposes
though I can direct dial if the net is down and at 28Kbps run a more than
satisfactory connection with little latency.
Sure, my clients pay more for my services than those who use web ledgers
do. But to tell the truth, if I proposed a $9.95/month solution to my
clients, they'd laugh me out of the building. Maybe we have different
clients, which is why you shouldn't blast people when they talk about
client/server. That's still how the big boys operate.
If web ledgers want to get to the big time, in big shops, they will need to
sell (at whatever cost) their code and allow the system to be run on a
clients web server across a clients leased lines if they want. They could
release the code, and sell it for $5-50k and allow their clients to modify
it for their own purpose. I would absolutely consider them at that point.
I think large companies would love to implement an accounting system that
runs through a web browser (without having to purchase Citrix which is
admittedly expensive) at LAN speeds because it IS on the LAN.
Flame away.
Todd- Just keeping you honest as always.
Mike.
Todd Boyle
you said.
But there are some glaring points which, now, I am obligated to make.
What you are really advocating is the 1990's state of the art in
accounting infrastructures for midrange companies,
1. midrange accounting packages
2. rather skilled operator
3. almost completely manual entering of sales, purchases, and other
entries,
4. an almost completely untrusting posture towards some rather useful
data that is freely available over the internet (party records,
such as cust, supplier, product ids, currencies, xbrl chart of
accounts, etc.)
5. an almost complete inability to receive an incoming transaction,
even a purchase order (a SALE!)
6. at least three highly skilled professionals standing behind the
accounting process (charging their costs:) the CPA who fixes up
the information, the Midrange VAR who maintains the installation,
and the Support professional behind the Midrange GL.
This is over-engineered, and offering that to small businesses of course,
is like offering modern amenities to the poor of calcutta who cannot even
afford a loaf of bread.
The cost and the cussed inflexibility of the midrange accounting packages
is anyways one of the PROBLEMS we are trying to overcome in the webledger
industry.
I agree with everything you said. Lousy security. Lousy CEOs who won't
submit their webledger to certification. Lousy functionality. Complete
reliance on the Password for security which is equal to saying, inadequate
security.
I'm already there. Been there done that. Now ask yourself, honestly, are
you satisfied with the state of the art? Are you willing to spend the
rest of your life doing the same meaningless and utterly deterministic
shovel work, to administer the transactions of other people?
While knowing that they SHOULD be better automated, and conducted over
the internet between the principals involved?
Well, of course I agree with what you're doing for midrange companies
today because there simply isnt any other choice right now. The primary
reason there's no way to run a midrange company on NetLedger or the other
webledgers is they're being butt heads and not opening up transaction
interfaces so that the whole accumulated wealth of business software
can use them as a GL and a back end. Instead they think they are
going to build just a few more modules, a few more screens, a few
more widgets and then it will be so great that people will ditch their
AccPac, MAS90, BusinessWorks, GreatPlains and sign up for a webledger.
This ignores the inevitable fact the webledger has no export story and
is the most fatal lock-in in history without one. They can raise the
price, they can get slower-- you cannot exit the platform.
All of the issues surrounding a webledger cry out for market discipline,
and that market discipline cannot happen unless there is a liquidity
and freedom of choice for the subscriber to the webledger. This
problem applies to every class of BSP, not only webledgers. Web
Storefronts, purchasing portals, banks, billing/payment,
email payment, cash managment, lockbox and treasury, and zillions
of verticals as well as web-based general accounting.
Yes, I do see XML standards for the transaction database as a panacea
and this sounds rather hysterical and napoleonic at times. But that's
what I believe in.
http://www.gldialtone.com/arapXMLfields003.htm
http://www.gldialtone.com/arapXMLnarrative.htm
Now. Continuing on my rant! :-)
I seem to perceive that Win2000 Terminal is rather expensive. And
so is any decently reliable hosting. And ahem. Now you are saying,
this is secure? On the WindowsNT server platform, maintained by
a local VAR? um. ok. I'll take my chances with the Netledger
and Level3 people, thanks. :-)
So now, to advocate that as an internet solution you would have to
advocate adding the cost of all of those Terminal Server and Midrange
packages and bandwidth, to all the (6) items above! Making the
solution astronomically expensive. You're really going in the
wrong direction I think. Midrange software is already priced way out
there around the top .1% of the 28 million Small/Medium busineses
in the US. Hmmm 28,000 licensed companies. Maybe my estimate is too
high. Now, you're going to more than double the price.
Well. There are many good points in your post and I thank you for
the reminder. One idea that is intriguing is the leased line or
tunneled connection to a real webledger like Netledger. That's
something some of the webledgers might do someday. And, you mentioned
wanting to buy or lease a packaged software for native html webledger?
There are some out there. I wish somebody would locate Graham Clark
and get the code behind the defunct BAPort.com which shut in December.
But there are a few other, major webledger code bases and also
at least one commercial package you can buy, and there are several
of the commercial webledgers who are promiscuously wanting to
put their code on other peoples' servers,
Frank Fudd
Lawson Financials have a java based interface for access over the web.
Fudd.
_________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.
Obnoxio The Clown
<exfo...@hotmail.com> spake, saying:
>Lawson Financials have a java based interface for access over the web.
1. Java.
2. Web.
3. Lawson.
3 strikes and you're out, boy!
:-)))
Charles Moore
Alan Whitehouse <al...@resgroup.com> wrote in message
news:93vc19$6...@dispatch.concentric.net...
> Your best bet is to find a package that you like and is compatible with
> Citrix or Windows Terminal Server. Most of the fully web based packages
are
> still too limited in their functionality.
You should look at a web designed accounting package, most if not all
terminal server type solutions are just too slow, the reason is pretty
obvious.
Need to also look at something that has been developed in the last year or
so, especially around SQL server 2000.
The keys points to look for:
a) Very little client side code, especially no business logic.
b) Extensive use of stored procedures for all business logic, this is
usefull as XML become more common for the client side GUI.
c) Client shoudl not need anything other than a standard browser, especially
a whole lot of jave or Active-x objects should be viewed with caution, as
maintaince is a real issue.
d) Option to host the application as an intranet service.
e) check out the security services, most are non existant.
f) Shoudl expect to get intergarted services as normal offering.
We develop WebLedger solutions for the Australian market.
Enjoy...
Allan Martin
"Charles Moore" <cmo...@phenix.com.au> wrote in message
news:%WMc6.28$zt2....@nsw.nnrp.telstra.net...
>
> Alan Whitehouse <al...@resgroup.com> wrote in message
> news:93vc19$6...@dispatch.concentric.net...
> > Your best bet is to find a package that you like and is compatible with
> > Citrix or Windows Terminal Server. Most of the fully web based packages
> are
> > still too limited in their functionality.
>
> You should look at a web designed accounting package, most if not all
> terminal server type solutions are just too slow, the reason is pretty
> obvious.
This is absolutely incorrect. Working with an accounting solution that uses
Citrix or Windows Terminal server even over a 28.8
connection is about as fast as if the program and data were stored on your
local machine. If you want to see slow performace try using Netledger (a
fully web based package) with a 28.8 connection. Hell even running a remote
application using PCAnywhere flys in comparision to NetLedger.
Michael Cooper
Mike Block, Tax Fighting C.P.A.
wrote:
>"Charles Moore" <cmo...@phenix.com.au> wrote in message
>news:%WMc6.28$zt2....@nsw.nnrp.telstra.net...
>>
>> Alan Whitehouse <al...@resgroup.com> wrote in message
>> news:93vc19$6...@dispatch.concentric.net...
>> > Your best bet is to find a package that you like and is compatible with
>> > Citrix or Windows Terminal Server. Most of the fully web based packages
>> > are still too limited in their functionality.
>>
>> You should look at a web designed accounting package, most if not all
>> terminal server type solutions are just too slow, the reason is pretty
>> obvious.
>
>This is absolutely incorrect. Working with an accounting solution that uses
>Citrix or Windows Terminal server even over a 28.8
>connection is about as fast as if the program and data were stored on your
>local machine. If you want to see slow performace try using Netledger (a
>fully web based package) with a 28.8 connection. Hell even running a remote
>application using PCAnywhere flys in comparision to NetLedger.
>
I only suggest NetLedger with high speed lines, with which it is
fast.
>> Need to also look at something that has been developed in the last year or
>> so, especially around SQL server 2000.
>> The keys points to look for:
>> a) Very little client side code, especially no business logic.
>> b) Extensive use of stored procedures for all business logic, this is
>> usefull as XML become more common for the client side GUI.
>> c) Client shoudl not need anything other than a standard browser,
>especially
>> a whole lot of jave or Active-x objects should be viewed with caution, as
>> maintaince is a real issue.
>> d) Option to host the application as an intranet service.
>> e) check out the security services, most are non existant.
>> f) Shoudl expect to get intergarted services as normal offering.
>>
>> We develop WebLedger solutions for the Australian market.
>>
>> http://www.villagemall.com.au
>>
>> Enjoy...
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> >
>> > Alan
>> >
>> >
>> > "RickP" <ri...@jdbyrider.com> wrote in message
>> > news:LSL76.613$Cp1....@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net...
>> > > Are there any true web based accounting packages? We're interested in
>> > > installing the software on a Windows2000 server using SQL2000 as the
>> > > database but want the remote locations to install a thin client
>> utilizing
>> > > the web to connect to the server?
>> > >
>> > >
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>
Mike Block - Tax Cut CPA
World's #1 QuickBooks Top Tester
FREE NetLedger accounting
FREE 462p QB books/error codes
100+ QB add-ons http://blocktax.com/
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You should take a(nother) look @ Ric Foxall's - INTERbooks Online
m3/oas. A "beta" version (v2.0b) of INTERbooks Online m3/oas is
available at < http://www.foxall.com/interbooks >.
As some participants in this group already know .... INTERbooks has
been ENTIRELY reDEVELOPED over the last 12 months - AND - is at least
attempting to address ALL OF THE ISSUES expressed here.
One big ADVANTAGE to the INTERbooks system/approach is that - as a web
based, open source, HTML/CGI application - it opens the door for even
non-Programmer types to ....
... apply their knowledge/skills to developing a viable web based
solution
... establish their own ASP type service based on this solution
- AND with the increasing popularity and relatively low cost of LINUX
type operating systems -
.... provide combined ONLINE/OFFLINE service without substantial
capital investments in Web technology
Another ADVANTAGE is that - because its' database(s) are automatically
converted to simple - comma delimited - ASCII files they can be easily
transfered to a number of other applications - regardless of the
"language" in which they are written.
So - the question of "which language is best?" is moot!
NOTE: Because INTERbooks is designed to "evolve" as the needs of the
community/industry change, it is unlikely that there will ever be a
final version of INTERbooks.
-------- reply ends ---------------