PEAR DB 1.6.0 has been released
Analysis&Solutions
Greetings:
Crack open the beer, PEAR DB 1.6.0 is here! (Hey, I'm a bit giddy
with excitement that my intense work during the past seven weeks
has come to fruition.)
For those unfamiliar with PEAR DB, it's a package of PHP classes
that provide an object oriented API with common methods of accessing
thirteen of PHP's database driver extensions:
dBase, FrontBase, InterBase, Informix, mSQL, MS SQL Server,
MySQL, Oracle, ODBC (tested with DB2 and Access), PostgreSQL,
SQLite and Sybase.
Key links for PEAR DB:
Download: http://pear.php.net/get/DB
Change Log: http://pear.php.net/package-changelog.php?package=DB
Manual: http://pear.php.net/manual/en/package.database.php
Home Page: http://pear.php.net/package/DB
Notable changes since 1.5.0RC2 include:
* New portability features, making it possible to write
applications which can be easily ported between DBMS's.
* Tons of bug fixes, making the package actually work for more
than just MySQL systems.
* Improved error reporting.
* Getting prepare/execute to work the same way for all DBMS's
and allow escaping of placeholder characters.
* Deploying tableInfo() in more drivers and officially moving
it from DB_result to DB_common. See the documentation for
proper usage.
* Making the test suite simpler to use and work on both
windows and *nix platforms.
* Various optimizations, several of which were uncovered
using Zend Studio's Code Analyzer.
* Countless documentation corrections.
* Full PHP 5 compatibility.
* Requiring PHP to be at version 4.2.0 or higher.
* Deprecating quote() and quoteString().
If you're one of the lucky few people using PHP's mysqli extension,
do note that the DB file/class has been renamed from mysql4 to mysqli,
but the online documentation won't reflect this modification until
they're rebuilt on Sunday. Similarly, there are a few other features
and documentation bugs that won't show up there until then either.
Is Dutch, German or Russian your native language? The manual needs
translating into these languages. Join in by signing up for the
pear-doc mailing list at http://pear.php.net/support.php.
For those of you in and around New York City this coming
Tuesday, February 24th, I'll be giving a presentation about this at
the NYPHP meeting. See http://nyphp.org/ for more info.
If you like the changes I've made to DB since version 1.5.0RC2, make
a donation: http://www.analysisandsolutions.com/donate/donate.htm
Enjoy,
--Dan
PS: I'm not on this list/newsgroup. Just posting this as an
announcement. So, if you wish to contact me, please do so directly
or via cc.
--
T H E A N A L Y S I S A N D S O L U T I O N S C O M P A N Y
data intensive web and database programming
http://www.AnalysisAndSolutions.com/
4015 7th Ave #4, Brooklyn NY 11232 v: 718-854-0335 f: 718-854-0409
Daniel Morgan
> Crack open the beer,
How often do we get the chance to be spammed by someone too rude
to read the FAQ, to lacking in respect to post in the appropriate
usenet group, or more deserving of being ignored.
Yeah ... lets celebrate a spammer trying to sell is stuff. This
must be an internet first.
When you get done being giddy try apologizing. I hope everyone
ignores your post and treats you with all the respect you have
earned.
--
Daniel Morgan
http://www.outreach.washington.edu/ext/certificates/oad/oad_crs.asp
http://www.outreach.washington.edu/ext/certificates/aoa/aoa_crs.asp
damo...@x.washington.edu
(replace 'x' with a 'u' to reply)
Fernando Nunes
> Analysis&Solutions wrote:
>
>> Crack open the beer,
>
>
> How often do we get the chance to be spammed by someone too rude
> to read the FAQ, to lacking in respect to post in the appropriate
> usenet group, or more deserving of being ignored.
>
> Yeah ... lets celebrate a spammer trying to sell is stuff. This
> must be an internet first.
>
> When you get done being giddy try apologizing. I hope everyone
> ignores your post and treats you with all the respect you have
> earned.
>
I'd bet you can call it SPAM... But PEAR is part of the open source PHP web development package.
As such, i'd call it "not bad spam" (?!). He isn't earning anything except maybe (bad?) reputation.
PEAR pretends to be a layer of abstraction between PHP and the database (yeah... it would be great to have really portable SQL :P)
Just a thought... please don't flame me and don't be "inflamed".
Regards.
Jan M. Nelken
>
> I'd bet you can call it SPAM... But PEAR is part of the open source PHP
> web development package.
> As such, i'd call it "not bad spam" (?!). He isn't earning anything
> except maybe (bad?) reputation.
>
I am sure he is not only earning bad reputation; he is also shooting
himself in the foot (or perhaps in both feet).
I am sure that majority of the people posting and reading here are - or
will - subscribe to The Boulder Pledge ("Under no circumstances will I
ever purchase anything offered to me as the result of an unsolicited
e-mail message. Nor will I forward chain letters, petitions, mass
mailings, or virus warnings to large numbers of others. This is my
contribution to the survival of the online community.").
So he simply rejected as potential customers majority of people posting
here.
Jan M. Nelken
Daniel Morgan
All SPAM is bad spam. I don't care if you are giving it away for
free. I don't care if you personally show up, install it, configure
it train on it, and then give me a check for $50: It is still spam.
The lack of netiquette is inexcusable and the posting invites others
that are selling products and services to think such postings are
tolerated: They will not be.
Buck
You are an ignorant turd, as well as all the other
cry-babies complaining. What is your point? To
create more spam complaining about it? A bunch of
ignorant retarded turds.
PEAR is a contribution to not only YOUR DUMBASSES, but
to people out there that are actually intelligent enough
to use it. God what a useless lump of shit you people are.
"Daniel Morgan" <damo...@x.washington.edu> wrote in message news:1077345802.384410@yasure...
Daniel Morgan
> Danield Morgan,
>
> You are an ignorant turd, as well as all the other
> cry-babies complaining. What is your point? To
> create more spam complaining about it? A bunch of
> ignorant retarded turds.
>
> PEAR is a contribution to not only YOUR DUMBASSES, but
> to people out there that are actually intelligent enough
> to use it. God what a useless lump of shit you people are.
I find it fascinating, in an academic sort of way, that it always
turns out that those that spam are also those that first resort
to the use of obscenities when someone rains on their parade.
It would have been so simple to just say "Oops .. sorry" ... and
repost. But no you apparently feel entitled to leave your trash
where-ever you please without regard to rules, etiquette, or
other people's wishes. Well you got your wish ... and I got mine.
How many customers do you think your little temper tantrum got you?
Buck
that I put the message out about PEAR. I have nothing to do with spam or
PEAR. I do however, read this group as well as others, and APPRECIATE news
like what was posted about PEAR. This was something we rarely see anymore,
instead it's pontificating turds like you that clog up the threads. Your
comments as well as the other turds was completely inappropriate. Internet
poop clogging up the thought waves.
Newsgroups are about information sharing, discussions, and open, public
communication. PEAR is an open source contribution, available even for
dumbshits like you. Obviously you don't understand that, as well as the
other cry-babies who had to chime in and post their ignorance. Even worse,
you have to include links to even more of your stinky ignorance.
Those that can't, teach.
Heh-heh... Now go teach!
( And change your diaper you cry-baby! It's startin ta stink! )
"Daniel Morgan" <damo...@x.washington.edu> wrote in message news:1077374028.733831@yasure...
Daniel Morgan
> Those that can't, teach.
I teach 6 hours per week. I consult for companies like the one
you work for 50-60 hours per week. There is a reason employers
pay my per diem. It isn't my good looks.
Daniel Morgan
> Those that can't, teach.
I teach 6 hours per week. I consult for companies like the one
you work for 50-60 hours per week. There is a reason employers
pay my per diem. It isn't my good looks.
--
Obnoxio The Clown
> Danield Morgan,
>
> You are an ignorant turd, as well as all the other
> cry-babies complaining. What is your point? To
> create more spam complaining about it? A bunch of
> ignorant retarded turds.
>
> PEAR is a contribution to not only YOUR DUMBASSES, but
> to people out there that are actually intelligent enough
> to use it. God what a useless lump of shit you people are.
Do I detect something in your post worth ANALysing?
Anyway, if a pear is being contributed to my dumb ass, presumably to replace
an ignorant turd or a useless lump of shit, then I hope you will generously
apply KY Jelly first. Even then, I think it may well make my eyes water.
Does that make me a cry-baby?
--
"C'est pas parce qu'on n'a rien à dire qu'il faut fermer sa gueule"
- Coluche
NorwoodThree
due to your marketing methods.
Anton Versteeg
I would like to append to the pledge:
"nor will I (cross)post replies to spam in newsgroups."
I hope I am excused from breaking my pledge just this time.
Jan M. Nelken wrote:
--
Anton Versteeg
IBM Certified DB2 Specialist
IBM Netherlands
Andrew Hardy
> Danield Morgan,
>
> You are an ignorant turd, as well as all the other
> cry-babies complaining. What is your point? To
> create more spam complaining about it? A bunch of
> ignorant retarded turds.
>
> PEAR is a contribution to not only YOUR DUMBASSES, but
> to people out there that are actually intelligent enough
> to use it. God what a useless lump of shit you people are.
And how is it a contribution to anything *I* do?
--
Andy - Opinions are mine and do not necessarily reflect those of
Advantica Ltd
Ed prochak
> First of all you make the wrong assumption that I spam, secondly, implying
> that I put the message out about PEAR. I have nothing to do with spam or
> PEAR. I do however, read this group as well as others, and APPRECIATE news
> like what was posted about PEAR. This was something we rarely see anymore,
> instead it's pontificating turds like you that clog up the threads. Your
> comments as well as the other turds was completely inappropriate. Internet
> poop clogging up the thought waves.
>
> Newsgroups are about information sharing, discussions, and open, public
> communication. PEAR is an open source contribution, available even for
> dumbshits like you. Obviously you don't understand that, as well as the
> other cry-babies who had to chime in and post their ignorance. Even worse,
> you have to include links to even more of your stinky ignorance.
>
> Those that can't, teach.
>
> Heh-heh... Now go teach!
Hmm. you seem to claim some knowledge about Newsgroups, and decry the
ignorance of others. You claim groups are open yet you post with a
dummy email address. But it is you that has no real understanding.
Newsgroups are not CHAT ROOMS where any topic is allowed. The
similarity to chat rooms is that newsgroups tend to have unique
cultures. And if you know anything about newgroups, you know that you
should read a group for a time to get an idea of what is appropriate
and what ISN'T appropriate. These meta-topic discussions serve to show
the culture of the group (often showing that it is not monolithic
too!).
News groups are named to at least SUGGEST their purpose. Hence there
exists both a
comp.database.oracle.misc
and a
comp.databases.oracle.marketplace
And topics seldom cross group boundaries. The advert that triggered
this thread belongs in the marketplace group and at the very least is
OFF TOPIC in the .misc group.
Newsgroups have Charters that describe the topic area. So if you have
any doubt, do a little homework and find out for yourself what belongs
and doesn't belong in this group.
Now a weed is just a flower that's in the wrong place
and newsgroup SPAM is a posting in the wrong place.
Some of us like to be neat, putting things in their proper place.
You apparently prefer things to be sloppy.
(Sloppy desks might be okay but not sloppy code or newsgroup
postings.)
If you wish to read about new products for ORACLE, then subscribe to
the marketplace group. Then when the PEAR posting does appear there
properly, we can both be happy.
Ed
Nonsense
has been
typically identified
the world over as unsolicited
marketing messages of typically
commercial products of one form or
another, in email, and of course newsgroups.
But announcements about open source projects with
their latest release can hardly be called "SPAM" when
it's an announcement to people that would most likely be
interested in it. Of course people like you who don't know
what it is shoot off your posts of poop and denounce a perfectly
legitimate post. This is why you and others were properly defined
as internet turds, clogging up the newsgroup with your poop,
creating even more traffic than the original announcement.
Instead of thanking the person that made the announcement
we saw mans' inhumanity to man once again, the typical
unimaginative poop coming in all upset about messages
that offended you without thinking about how it
might have been a benefit. You and a lot of
people actually think you have a god-given
right to have email and newsgroups. By
the way most of the newsgroups in this
thread have plenty of useless chat in
many of the threads having nothing
to do with anything other than
silly banter. Poop away with
more poop!
"Ed prochak" <ed.pr...@magicinterface.com> wrote in message news:4b5394b2.04022...@posting.google.com...
Jonathan Leffler
> SPAM
In comp.databases.informix, your posting was fine. I suspect the same
was true of comp.databases.ibm-db2, but would defer to the denizens of
that group if there is disagreement.
It appears that your posting to comp.databases.oracle.server and
comp.databases.oracle.misc was misguided under the rules of those
groups. In future, post to comp.databases.oracle.marketplace - simply
to avoid the barrage of negative emails. I agree that it seems
unnecessarily hostile - maybe they simply aren't attuned to open source.
--
Jonathan Leffler #include <disclaimer.h>
Email: jlef...@earthlink.net, jlef...@us.ibm.com
Guardian of DBD::Informix v2003.04 -- http://dbi.perl.org/
SkidMark
We are closing out this ticket.
Should you have any further inquiries regarding this newsgroup
pile 'o poop please refer to this ticket number: ipp9091
-IPP Customer Support-
- Internet Poop Patrol -
Cleaning up the internet newsgroup community one diaper at a time
"Jonathan Leffler" <jlef...@earthlink.net> wrote in message news:rqT_b.8456$aT1....@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net...
Daniel Morgan
> Nonsense wrote:
>
>> SPAM
>
>
> In comp.databases.informix, your posting was fine. I suspect the same
> was true of comp.databases.ibm-db2, but would defer to the denizens of
> that group if there is disagreement.
>
> It appears that your posting to comp.databases.oracle.server and
> comp.databases.oracle.misc was misguided under the rules of those
> groups. In future, post to comp.databases.oracle.marketplace - simply
> to avoid the barrage of negative emails. I agree that it seems
> unnecessarily hostile - maybe they simply aren't attuned to open source.
Au contraire. We are very attuned to open source. But when one
allows one vendor to post a message all others take that as an
invitation: Open season.
It is incumbent upon all persons posting to all usenet groups to
read the group's charter and follow it. The Oracle group's charter
specifically sets aside a group for such messages.
At the very least those that post are guilty of being rude. And
that alone is enough to justify calling them spammers and to
encourage others to not do business with them. Even Oracle Corp.
itself is not exempt from following the rules. If someone finds
it too much of a burden to read the Charter and follow the rules
likely they are no someone we would wish to do business with.
Ed Avis
>It appears that your posting to comp.databases.oracle.server and
>comp.databases.oracle.misc was misguided under the rules of those
>groups.
I think this is still open to debate - I can't see anything in the
charter of oracle.misc that would make it against the rules - but we
will discuss this on the Oracle groups themselves.
Personally I am pleased to hear about free software related to Oracle
and I don't consider it spam for the simple reason that no money is
involved. I completely agree with the people who say they will never
give money to spammers, but in this case it's irrelevant because free
software projects do not require payment.
--
Ed Avis <e...@membled.com>
SkidMark
Your latest post has been marked as "POOP" and entered into
our database. Additionally, our judges have downgraded your
status from rock to lime.
Ratings are determined solely on the quality your posts, if you
can somehow produce better quality communications we will of
course upgrade your rating. As you may or may not know,
diamond is our highest rating, dirt is our lowest. Lime is
one rating up from dirt, so you may want to consider some
sort of training to get your posts back to Rock.
You can appeal our decision after 30 days, by submitting proof
of a diaper change. A digital image of a clean diaper is
typically enough to get the status changed, but the image must
contain a picture of you holding the diaper and it must not
show the slightest hint of skid marks or other soil. If the
judges do not grant the appeal you can usually get upgraded
in 60 days automatically if you have not had any other posts
of a nature that would show soil.
Incidentally, PEAR is not written by a commercial entity,
and is not a commercial business or enterprise or vendor as
you had erroneously stated. PEAR is a contribution from the
Open Source community to the PHP developer community. PHP
connects to many databases, as well as being one of the most
popular programming environments available, and is completely
free of charge to anyone that wants to use it. Announcements
about PEAR and PHP are not SPAM. Posts like yours are however,
completely stinky POOP.
-IPP-
"Daniel Morgan" <damo...@x.washington.edu> wrote in message news:1077725344.716058@yasure...
Paul Drake
THIS ...
is the funniest thing that I have seen in quite some time
I really have no wish to be the wiper of other people's bottoms. I
also have no real desire to change diapers, unless I was fortunate to
impregnate one of the hotest dieties on this planet (better odds of
hitting the lotteries that I do not participate in).
I wish you much success in policing the ... sailing the seas of cheese
...
as far as attuned to open source - post the link to freshmeat.net, and
don't force me to view the souce.
paying the cost to be the boss,
Pd
Galen Boyer
> All SPAM is bad spam. I don't care if you are giving it away
> for free. I don't care if you personally show up, install it,
> configure it train on it, and then give me a check for $50: It
> is still spam.
I'm on the fence on this one. What is different from what this
guy posted and what Jonathan Lewis posts every month?
Sure, Jonathan is a great contributor, and well respected, but he
is "advertising" a site. Is it so different, or is every
posting's "Spam rating" to be analyzed on a case-by-case basis.
I would never call Jonathan's postings spam, but I also have a
hard time truly distinquishing that from the original posting in
this thread.
About a year ago, I had embarked on building an open source Oracle
extension to Emacs to allow for dynamic query building within
Emacs by interacting with metadata from Oracle. I never finished
it, but had I actually published it to the Open source community,
I certainly would have let people in this group know. Would I
have been chastised for that?
--
Galen Boyer
Daniel Morgan
> On Fri, 20 Feb 2004, damo...@x.washington.edu wrote:
>
>
>>All SPAM is bad spam. I don't care if you are giving it away
>>for free. I don't care if you personally show up, install it,
>>configure it train on it, and then give me a check for $50: It
>>is still spam.
>
>
> I'm on the fence on this one. What is different from what this
> guy posted and what Jonathan Lewis posts every month?
I will gladly answer that one. Jonathan posts in response to posts
by other people asking for help solving a problem or requesting
clarification.
Not once has he just posted marketing in and of itself.
Not once has he referred anyone to his company as the solution to a problem.
Not once has he said "come take my class for the answer."
Jonathan may use a line or two more than I and others do to
indicate what he does and who he is but he isn't posting purely,
or I suspect even incidentally, in the hope of make a sale or
driving someone to his web site so he can sell them something.
A free product or give-away to get people to come to your for-profit
site is marketing at is most basic level. "Come on down to our used
car dealership and we will give you a toaster" is marketing. So is
"Come to our web site and download SPAM-DB 1.6 for free." In both
cases the motive is transparent.
The DB2 and Informix groups have their rules and they should be
respected. The Oracle group's rules should be too. And if spammers
aren't made to pay a price for what they do it just encourages them
to spam more and for others to do so too. You really don't want me,
and every other consultant, posting our advertising here. Really!
Brian Peasland
But it is ok for you to say it????? See:
I'm not sure you want to use this particular argument.....
Cheers,
Brian
--
===================================================================
Brian Peasland
dba@remove_spam.peasland.com
Remove the "remove_spam." from the email address to email me.
"I can give it to you cheap, quick, and good. Now pick two out of
the three"
Daniel Morgan
>>Not once has he said "come take my class for the answer."
>
>
> But it is ok for you to say it????? See:
>
>
> http://groups.google.com/groups?q=daniel+morgan+university+take+class&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&selm=1064616994.219921%40yasure&rnum=3
>
>
> I'm not sure you want to use this particular argument.....
>
>
> Cheers,
> Brian
I'd like to make an excuse like "I don't get paid by the student"
(true) or the University has turned people away 4 years out of 4
from the program so more applicants makes no difference (also true).
But truly they would be lame so I apologize.
Obnoxio The Clown
> But truly they would be lame so I apologize.
Not as lame as your justification... >:o)
Malc P
>
> About a year ago, I had embarked on building an open source Oracle
> extension to Emacs to allow for dynamic query building within
> Emacs by interacting with metadata from Oracle. I never finished
> it, but had I actually published it to the Open source community,
> I certainly would have let people in this group know. Would I
> have been chastised for that?
No more than Art gets castigated when he tags "Download utils2_ak from
the iiug website" to his messages.
But then Art does it for the kudos.* ;-)
Malc
*(1) homophonic spelling of Sir Clive Sinclair's 32-bit operating
system running on a 16-bit chip with an 8-bit bus.
*(2) Feeling one gets when posting "Hey Art, I found a fatal bug in
that awk function of yours on myshcema line 5237"
sybr...@yahoo.com
I agree with you on Jonathan's posts, especially as he is top-posting
his 'advertisement' for his courses and his site. I must say it annoys
me, especially in thoses cases he only posts a 1-lined comment.
In the end, even Jonathan is not more equal than other's. If he would
only include the url of his site, I would have no problem with that.
What I consider spam is every 'free download' which's ultimate purpose
is to attract you to a commercial site. Those posts are just like
holding up a carott for a rabitt: in the end the vendor has trapped
you, and you will end up in his Christmas dish.
Regards
Sybrand Bakker
Senior Oracle DBA
Ed prochak
[]
> Incidentally, PEAR is not written by a commercial entity,
> and is not a commercial business or enterprise or vendor as
> you had erroneously stated. PEAR is a contribution from the
> Open Source community to the PHP developer community. PHP
> connects to many databases, as well as being one of the most
> popular programming environments available, and is completely
> free of charge to anyone that wants to use it.
Interesting but irrelenvant.
> ... Announcements
> about PEAR and PHP are not SPAM.
In a sense, you are correct. The original comment should have been
that the announcement of the PEAR DB in comp.database.oracle.misc and
c.d.o.server is OFF TOPIC. Of the 4 ORACLE groups it might belong in
c.d.o.marketplace.
Then again, announcement of the PEAR DB might even be off topic in
c.d.o.marketplace, since it is NOT and ORACLE related product or
service. (Announcing PHP there would work, given that PHP connects to
ORACLE and other DBMS products.)
However, in general, SPAM refers to posting commercial announcements
across multiple DISCUSSION groups (as opposed to forsale groups).
The announcement belonged in comp.databases only, with perhaps cross
postings in APPROPRIATE open source groups (there might be one that
fits.)
Perhaps, Skid, you should stop sleeping on the interstate. You even
got this thread wrong. Meta discussions (talking about What is on
topic) are always ON TOPIC.
So take your meds, calm down, and breath. It will all be better in the
morning.
HTH,
ed
PS, my apologies to the other cross posted groups, but I wanted to
have some chance of Skid actually reading this reply.
Ed prochak
>
> > SPAM
>
> In comp.databases.informix, your posting was fine. I suspect the same
> was true of comp.databases.ibm-db2, but would defer to the denizens of
> that group if there is disagreement.
>
> It appears that your posting to comp.databases.oracle.server and
> comp.databases.oracle.misc was misguided under the rules of those
> groups. In future, post to comp.databases.oracle.marketplace - simply
> to avoid the barrage of negative emails. I agree that it seems
> unnecessarily hostile - maybe they simply aren't attuned to open source.
Jon,
being "attuned to open source" has nothing to do with scolding posters
of spam.
Look at the motivations and actions and you'll see that.
And as I mentioned elsewhere, announcing PEAR DBMS in the oracle
marketplace group is likely off topic too. It would be equivalent to
posting ads for DB/2 in the oracle marketplace group.
There are charters that define the topic areas for groups in the main
groups. It may be time for all of us to reread them and see what
belongs and what doesn't.
ed
Ed prochak
>
> > All SPAM is bad spam. I don't care if you are giving it away
> > for free. I don't care if you personally show up, install it,
> > configure it train on it, and then give me a check for $50: It
> > is still spam.
>
> I'm on the fence on this one. What is different from what this
> guy posted and what Jonathan Lewis posts every month?
Let's see,
Jonathan posted only in one group at a time (I did not find any
multiposts.)
His Ads were ORACLE related and posted in ORACLE groups
This guy posted in multiple discussion groups, none related to his
product announcement.
None of the groups were .announce, .forsale or .marketplace.
>
> Sure, Jonathan is a great contributor, and well respected, but he
> is "advertising" a site. Is it so different, or is every
> posting's "Spam rating" to be analyzed on a case-by-case basis.
> I would never call Jonathan's postings spam, but I also have a
> hard time truly distinquishing that from the original posting in
> this thread.
>
Now I think we did discuss Jonathan's posts and the preferred place
for them is still the marketplace group. But his posts in the other
ORACLE groups have been tolerated since he does CONTRIBUTE to those
groups. Has the OP,
Analysis&Solutions (in...@analysisandsolutions.com) contributed
anything here?
Well a google search in c.d.oracle.* shows only 4 posts by that email,
one is the original PEAR advert, the other three were all Questions
about date formatting. So I conclude that he contributes NOTHING to
comp.databases.oracle.*
What he contributes to open source movement is a separate issue.
And I think I am consistent here. I would chatise the Pope if he
posted his newest Encyclical in the oracle group, because it would be
off topic, even if the tile of the encyclical was something like "St.
John: ORACLE of the New testament".
> About a year ago, I had embarked on building an open source Oracle
> extension to Emacs to allow for dynamic query building within
> Emacs by interacting with metadata from Oracle. I never finished
> it, but had I actually published it to the Open source community,
> I certainly would have let people in this group know. Would I
> have been chastised for that?
Galen, you are also well respected in these groups. But I think you
answered your own question. It would have been an ORACLE related
product. Judging from you past posts, I would expect that, even if you
posted an advert in all the oracle groups, you would NOT post it in
c.d.db2 or c.d.postgresql
I think you are too intelligent to do that.
So the view I follow can be summarized as
newsgroups are not anything-goes chat rooms.
newsgroups have individual cultures
newsgroups ar TOPIC related, so not all messages are welcomed
hth,
ed
Obnoxio The Clown
> Jonathan Leffler <jlef...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
> news:<rqT_b.8456$aT1....@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>...
>
> Jon,
Jon? Jon!?
Into the bunkers quickly everyone!
SkidMark
Ed,
We had no choice but to mark your post for poop. There was just
too much soil to avoid it, and, well, we had no choice. As we
indicated to Daniel Morgan, you can appeal our decision after
30 days. Just get us that pic of you and your clean diaper.
Some of the things we found in your soil sample:
* Complete misunderstandings of what PEAR is
* Statements that had no point or were completely off-track
* Statements that indicated a possible link to mental health issues
such as either low IQ or mental retardation
* Statements filled with inaccuracies
Please take a moment to review your postings and resubmit them
without the errors and we think you'll get out of the poop
quickly.
-IPP-
"Ed prochak" <ed.pr...@magicinterface.com> wrote in message news:4b5394b2.04022...@posting.google.com...
Ed Avis
[PEAR DB]
>This guy posted in multiple discussion groups, none related to his
>product.
The program (not 'product' - it is not for sale) works with DB2,
Informix and Oracle among other RDBMSes.
I couldn't find the charter for cd.ibm-db2, but I have checked those
for .informix and .oracle.misc and both of those groups appear related
to the program.
>None of the groups were .announce, .forsale or .marketplace.
.announce is a fair point, if there were an .announce group that
should probably be used instead. But there isn't.
.forsale is not appropriate because the program is not for sale.
.marketplace is not appropriate because it is not a commercial
announcement. (Again, I say this based on reading the charter for the
.oracle.marketplace group.)
>Now I think we did discuss Jonathan's posts and the preferred place
>for them is still the marketplace group. But his posts in the other
>ORACLE groups have been tolerated since he does CONTRIBUTE to those
>groups. Has the OP, Analysis&Solutions
>(in...@analysisandsolutions.com) contributed anything here?
I think you should just the article, not the poster.
Is the article about PEAR DB ontopic for the group? (It is related to
the database systems in question.) Is it prohibited by the charter or
by general Usenet rules against commercial announcements? (It is
non-commercial and unconditionally free software, so I think it is
allowed.)
>Well a google search in c.d.oracle.* shows only 4 posts by that
>email, one is the original PEAR advert, the other three were all
>Questions about date formatting. So I conclude that he contributes
>NOTHING to comp.databases.oracle.*
If he has posted a helpful announcement about PEAR DB, and that
program is related to Oracle, then he has contributed something.
But again, judge each article on its merits, don't just the poster.
--
Ed Avis <e...@membled.com>
Galen Boyer
> Galen Boyer <galen...@hotpop.com> wrote in message
> news:<uwu69g...@standardandpoors.com>...
>> On Fri, 20 Feb 2004, damo...@x.washington.edu wrote:
>>
>> > All SPAM is bad spam. I don't care if you are giving it away
>> > for free. I don't care if you personally show up, install
>> > it, configure it train on it, and then give me a check for
>> > $50: It is still spam.
>>
>> I'm on the fence on this one. What is different from what
>> this guy posted and what Jonathan Lewis posts every month?
>
> Let's see,
> Jonathan posted only in one group at a time (I did not find any
> multiposts.)
> His Ads were ORACLE related and posted in ORACLE groups
Yes. Jonathan's monthly postings where he talks about the FAQ
aren't considered spam but they do very much promote a website.
They actually promote people leaving the newsgroup to work on
that site (or at least they did). Of course, the sole purpose of
the work on this website is to help out this group and Oracle
professionals in general, but I'm conveniently leaving this out
for sake of discussion. ;-)
> This guy posted in multiple discussion groups, none related to
> his product announcement. None of the groups were .announce,
> .forsale or .marketplace.
This is the main issue. Not that he was trying to make money.
How could he have been. His issue is that he posted to anything
and everything database related. My debate is with the first
flavor of these. I definitely was annoyed by the plethora of
newsgroups he decided to multi-post to.
>> Sure, Jonathan is a great contributor, and well respected, but
>> he is "advertising" a site. Is it so different, or is every
>> posting's "Spam rating" to be analyzed on a case-by-case
>> basis. I would never call Jonathan's postings spam, but I
>> also have a hard time truly distinquishing that from the
>> original posting in this thread.
>>
> Now I think we did discuss Jonathan's posts and the preferred
> place for them is still the marketplace group. But his posts in
> the other ORACLE groups have been tolerated since he does
> CONTRIBUTE to those groups. Has the OP, Analysis&Solutions
> (in...@analysisandsolutions.com) contributed anything here?
>
> Well a google search in c.d.oracle.* shows only 4 posts by that
> email, one is the original PEAR advert, the other three were
> all Questions about date formatting. So I conclude that he
> contributes NOTHING to comp.databases.oracle.*
Well. This is where I still have the question. What if someone
posts alot and offers alot of help but they also attach a little
URL showing the book they have. Is this so different than
someone just posting a URL? Tom Kyte used to be a regular
contributor here and will be again, I'm sure, but it wouldn't
surprise me to find out that he does this almost as
advertisement. This wouldn't bother me one bit and I quite
appreciate the idea. I bought Tom's book as well as Jonathan's
book because of the great help I saw others getting (as well as
my own personal help). As far as I was concerned, I almost
"owed" it to them. I also purchased any of the books from the
free software society that I might have occasion to read. Didn't
need to, cause I read it for free on my computer, but I use Emacs
so much, I felt I "owed" it to them.
Sure, we all do this newsgroup thing out of the goodness of our
hearts and the genuine love of the technology we are working
with, but I also will have on my resume a little snippet like,
"active contributor to such and such group". I do this so
someone might go look me up and judge for themselves whether I
could fit in on a particular team. Aren't I being financially
motivated to post? Might I have a hidden agenda? Well, actually
it has a very positive affect. Because I know people can look me
up, I try to stay as professional as possible. Even in the
patriots newsgroups. :-)
> What he contributes to open source movement is a separate
> issue.
>
> And I think I am consistent here. I would chatise the Pope if
> he posted his newest Encyclical in the oracle group, because it
> would be off topic, even if the tile of the encyclical was
> something like "St. John: ORACLE of the New testament".
>
>> About a year ago, I had embarked on building an open source
>> Oracle extension to Emacs to allow for dynamic query building
>> within Emacs by interacting with metadata from Oracle. I
>> never finished it, but had I actually published it to the Open
>> source community, I certainly would have let people in this
>> group know. Would I have been chastised for that?
>
> Galen, you are also well respected in these groups. But I think
> you answered your own question. It would have been an ORACLE
> related product. Judging from you past posts, I would expect
> that, even if you posted an advert in all the oracle groups,
> you would NOT post it in c.d.db2 or c.d.postgresql I think you
> are too intelligent to do that.
Well, thanks, and yes, the OP totally errored by multi-posting.
I also think he chose groups that had no reason to see the
announcement, like this Oracle group. Leaves a large doubt in my
mind about the quality of his open source product as well.
I do know that, personally, I'm not interested in the OP's
product for the main reason that the poster was so oblivious to
newsgroup charters. But, I disagree with the accusations of his
financial motives that many posters were posting.
--
Galen Boyer
Ed prochak
> MARKED FOR POOP
>
> Ed,
>
> We had no choice but to mark your post for poop. There was just
> too much soil to avoid it, and, well, we had no choice. As we
> indicated to Daniel Morgan, you can appeal our decision after
> 30 days. Just get us that pic of you and your clean diaper.
>
> Some of the things we found in your soil sample:
> * Complete misunderstandings of what PEAR is
> * Statements that had no point or were completely off-track
> * Statements that indicated a possible link to mental health issues
> such as either low IQ or mental retardation
> * Statements filled with inaccuracies
>
> Please take a moment to review your postings and resubmit them
> without the errors and we think you'll get out of the poop
> quickly.
>
> -IPP-
Thank you, Skid, for a slightly amusing, though uninformative posting.
If you had anything to say, I wish you would say it. meanwhile, I'll
return to the discussion in c.d.oracle.misc where others are making
some sense, even some that disagree with Daniel and I. When you are
ready to contribute something useful or informative to the group come
on back.
Ed.
Ed prochak
.misc]
>
> >None of the groups were .announce, .forsale or .marketplace.
>
> .announce is a fair point, if there were an .announce group that
> should probably be used instead. But there isn't.
Depends.
there's a comp.software.shareware.announce
I thought there was a comp.software.announce but I'm wrong.
there's a php.general
>
> .forsale is not appropriate because the program is not for sale.
point granted here.
> .marketplace is not appropriate because it is not a commercial
> announcement. (Again, I say this based on reading the charter for the
> .oracle.marketplace group.)
This is where we disagree. It LOOKS commercial to me.
>
> >Now I think we did discuss Jonathan's posts and the preferred place
> >for them is still the marketplace group. But his posts in the other
> >ORACLE groups have been tolerated since he does CONTRIBUTE to those
> >groups. Has the OP, Analysis&Solutions
> >(in...@analysisandsolutions.com) contributed anything here?
>
> I think you should just the article, not the poster.
My comment was in the context of why we jumped on this poster but not
those of someone else. In that context I stand by my remark. (note
this is an oracle.misc issue)
>
> Is the article about PEAR DB ontopic for the group?
discussed elsewhere in an oracle.misc thread
> >Well a google search in c.d.oracle.* shows only 4 posts by that
> >email, one is the original PEAR advert, the other three were all
> >Questions about date formatting. So I conclude that he contributes
> >NOTHING to comp.databases.oracle.*
>
> If he has posted a helpful announcement about PEAR DB, and that
> program is related to Oracle, then he has contributed something.
>
> But again, judge each article on its merits, don't just the poster.
And IMHO, that posting did not have any merits deserving to be in
oracle.misc
ed
Ed prochak
> On 27 Feb 2004, ed.pr...@magicinterface.com wrote:
> > Galen Boyer <galen...@hotpop.com> wrote in message
> > news:<uwu69g...@standardandpoors.com>...
> >> On Fri, 20 Feb 2004, damo...@x.washington.edu wrote:
> >>
> >> > All SPAM is bad spam. I don't care if you are giving it away
> >> > for free. I don't care if you personally show up, install
> >> > it, configure it train on it, and then give me a check for
> >> > $50: It is still spam.
> >>
> >> I'm on the fence on this one. What is different from what
> >> this guy posted and what Jonathan Lewis posts every month?
> >
>
> Well, thanks, and yes, the OP totally errored by multi-posting.
> I also think he chose groups that had no reason to see the
> announcement, like this Oracle group. Leaves a large doubt in my
> mind about the quality of his open source product as well.
>
> I do know that, personally, I'm not interested in the OP's
> product for the main reason that the poster was so oblivious to
> newsgroup charters. But, I disagree with the accusations of his
> financial motives that many posters were posting.
I think my point is, and has been, the announcement is off topic for
at least the oracle.misc group, because it is a product announcement.
Such announcements might fit in the db2 and sybase groups. I don't
read those groups much. But seems to not belong here in oracle.misc
Whether he is or is not making money from it is, IMO, irrelevant.
Have a great day.
Ed
SkidMark
Thanks so much for allowing me to be a part of your world man, you rock!
Do you have any extra ganga you could spare?
-Skid-
"I've said what I've said, and now it's all this"
--John Lennon on his comments about the Beatles being "bigger that Jesus Christ".
"Ed prochak" <ed.pr...@magicinterface.com> wrote in message news:4b5394b2.04030...@posting.google.com...