I Want An Easier, Faster, Better CAD Tool
jon_banquer
intimidating.
You don't want a massive learning curve learning stuff that seems
stupid to you.
You realize that you don't want to waste hours using a rollback bar to
try and understand some pick your nose engineer's design intent just
so you can modify their solid model to machine it.
You have to work with other people solid models.
You have to work with non-native solid models.
You use Mastercam and realize you want more powerful CAD.
You have seen SolidWorks and don't wish to be a CAD expert.
You use SolidWorks and realize it leaves a lot to be desired.
You use Pro/E and realize it leaves a lot to be desired.
You use Surfcam and realize Surfcam CAD leaves a lot to be desired.
You use Featurecam and realize Featurecam CAD leaves a lot to be
desired.
You use Rhino and want a modeler that's much better for mechanical
modeling.
You use Mecsoft Visual Mill 6 and want a better CAD program.
You use an old version of BobCRAP, hang up on their telemarketers and
refuse to downgrade your old copy of BobCRAP to BobCRAP 2007 / V22 and
give these lying Scientologist slime balls another dime.
I have some good news for you:
I can show you a better way to model!
If you are in the following categories you're a brain dead idiot and I
can't help you:
You use AutoCAD and think 2D is good enough.
You use Gibbscam and think it's CAD and CAM are just fine and have no
clue that Mastercam X2 blows Gibbscam away in most areas.
You use BobCRAP 2007 / V22.
You use Alibre.
You think Matt Lombard is a genius and actually knows something about
manufacturing.
You think Franco Folini is a genius and actually knows something about
manufacturing.
You think Novedge actually adds value to the CADCAM products they
sell.
You think that CATIA is an affordable answer.
You think CATIA has the equivalent of what Solid Edge with Synchronous
Technology has.
You think SolidWorks has the equivalent of what Solid Edge with
Synchronous Technology has.
The Jon Banquer blog has linked to a new video which makes it very
clear how much better thought out Solid Edge with Synchronous
Technology is and how easier it is to model with their new tools.
http://jonbanquer.baywords.com/
Jon Banquer
San Diego, CA
phil scott
> You use no parametric-history based CAD product because it looks
> intimidating.
>
> You don't want a massive learning curve learning stuff that seems
> stupid to you.
>
> You realize that you don't want to waste hours using a rollback bar to
> try and understand some pick your nose engineer's design intent just
> so you can modify their solid model to machine it.
>
> You have to work with other people solid models.
>
> You have to work with non-native solid models.
>
> You use Mastercam and realize you want more powerful CAD.
>
> You have seen SolidWorks and don't wish to be a CAD expert.
>
> You use SolidWorks and realize it leaves a lot to be desired.
>
> You use Pro/E and realize it leaves a lot to be desired.
>
> You use Surfcam and realize Surfcam CAD leaves a lot to be desired.
>
> You use Featurecam and realize Featurecam CAD leaves a lot to be
> desired.
>
> You use Rhino and want a modeler that's much better for mechanical
> modeling.
>
> You use Mecsoft Visual Mill 6 and want a better CAD program.
>
> You use an old version of BobCRAP, hang up on their telemarketers and
> refuse to downgrade your old copy of BobCRAP to BobCRAP 2007 / V22 and
> give these lying Scientologist slime balls another dime.
WhAt? culties produced bobCRAP... you know they are in bed with
both the business end and covert ops end of the CIA as well.
Phil scott
Proctologically Violated悟
news:fcb67845-9b69-4ad9...@l28g2000prd.googlegroups.com...
I've got an easy, fast, better tool for you.
Open wide, muthafucka, you don't want to chip your teeth.....
--
------
Mr. P.V.'d (formerly Droll Troll), Yonkers, NY
Sodomized by Congress, butt again...
But, Obama at least took me to the hospital!
entropic3.14decay at optonline2.718 dot net; remove pi and e to reply--ie,
all d'numbuhs
jon_banquer
vinny
"jon_banquer" <jon_b...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:fcb67845-9b69-4ad9...@l28g2000prd.googlegroups.com...
Cliff
>> You use an old version of BobCRAP, hang up on their telemarketers and
>> refuse to downgrade your old copy of BobCRAP to BobCRAP 2007 / V22 and
>> give these lying Scientologist slime balls another dime.
>
>WhAt? culties produced bobCRAP... you know they are in bed with
>both the business end and covert ops end of the CIA as well.
That's okay then as jb will not buy from China.
He loves his software ads from Korea.
--
Cliff
Cliff
wrote:
>try and understand some pick your nose engineer's design intent
And they wanted that hole there why?
But you not only moved it you changed the size & depth & even
the hole-count !!!
--
Cliff
Cliff
>xsi softimage
Is that the kernel Rhino is using? For games.
I forget which gamer kernal they are using but poor
clueless claimed that they had written their own (and
was, as usual, dead wrong, while trying to drop names).
--
Cliff
jon_banquer
Cliff
wrote:
You need a new diaper.
--
Cliff
Cliff
wrote:
>You use no parametric-history based CAD product because it looks
>intimidating.
Coward.
"I'm the kind of person who doesn't learn very well reading pure theory. I
get bored really quick." - Jon Banquer
>You don't want a massive learning curve learning stuff that seems
>stupid to you.
Clueless.
"I dropped out of high school to pursue my dream of making
a lot of money and never went back" - Jon Banquer
>You realize that you don't want to waste hours using a rollback bar to
>try and understand some pick your nose engineer's design intent just
>so you can modify their solid model
Hence all your posts on "design intent" being so
important. BEFORE you hack-n-whack it into rubbish.
>to machine it.
Perhaps you should learn about CAD/CAM &/or CAM
systems.
Only YOU have all these claimed problems due to your massive ignorance.
"One word sums it up.....HANDWHEEL"
>You have to work with other people solid models.
You can last about 3 months max (on the clueless BS & hype).
Then they always catch on & find that there are no good parts
but lots of trashed ones.
The Zen of the RED button:
[
When my mind is deep in the code and I'm standing at the machine
editing or creating a program I can see the tool in my mind as cuts
the part. I'm like in another world.
] - jon banquer
[
In better shops people know when not to bother you. When
this happens on a frequent basis it's a good sign that
perhaps one should move on.
] - jon banquer
>You have to work with non-native solid models.
Such as ones imported from SW into SE?
>You use Mastercam and realize you want more powerful CAD.
CLUE: It's a CAM program, not a CAD program or a CAD/CAM
program.
>
>You have seen SolidWorks and don't wish to be a CAD expert.
YOU ARE A SUCCEESS !
>You use SolidWorks and realize it leaves a lot to be desired.
And as a non-user & non-CAD-expert you know this how?
>You use Pro/E and realize it leaves a lot to be desired.
And as a non-user & non-CAD-expert you know this how?
>You use Surfcam and realize Surfcam CAD leaves a lot to be desired.
CLUE: It's a CAM program, not a CAD program or a CAD/CAM
program.
>You use Featurecam and realize Featurecam CAD leaves a lot to be
>desired.
CLUE: It's a CAM program, not a CAD program or a CAD/CAM
program.
>You use Rhino and want a modeler that's much better for mechanical
>modeling.
CLUE: It's mostly a surface modeler & graphics tool.
>You use Mecsoft Visual Mill 6 and want a better CAD program.
CLUE: It's a CAM program, not a CAD program or a CAD/CAM
program.
>You use an old version of BobCRAP, hang up on their telemarketers and
>refuse to downgrade your old copy of BobCRAP to BobCRAP 2007 / V22 and
>give these lying Scientologist slime balls another dime.
You've never used it.
>I have some good news for you:
>
>I can show you a better way to model!
Bricks?
>If you are in the following categories you're a brain dead idiot and I
>can't help you:
>
>
>You use AutoCAD and think 2D is good enough.
AutoCAD is 3D.
>You use Gibbscam and think it's CAD and CAM are just fine and have no
>clue that Mastercam X2 blows Gibbscam away in most areas.
CLUE: MasterCAM is a 5 axes CAM program.
>You use BobCRAP 2007 / V22.
No, you don't.
>You use Alibre.
No, you don't.
>You think Matt Lombard is a genius and actually knows something about
>manufacturing.
He never claimed that. He knows SW.
And YOU know very little about manufacturing, CAD, CAM or CAD/CAM
& it shows in every post.
>You think Franco Folini is a genius and actually knows something about
>manufacturing.
CLUE: Has degree is in CS & he sells shrink-wrapped graphics
software on the Web.
>You think Novedge actually adds value to the CADCAM products they
>sell.
They seem to be a retailer, not a VAR.
And the term is "CAD/CAM".
>You think that CATIA is an affordable answer.
Get banquercadam !!!
>You think CATIA has the equivalent of what Solid Edge with Synchronous
>Technology has.
And you don't have a clue.
>You think SolidWorks has the equivalent of what Solid Edge with
>Synchronous Technology has.
SE does NOT YET HAVE "Synchronous Technology".
Nor is MasterCAM SW.
>The Jon Banquer blog has linked to a new video which makes it very
>clear how much better thought out Solid Edge with Synchronous
>Technology is and how easier it is to model with their new tools.
>
>http://jonbanquer.baywords.com/
<Snicker>
On Sat, 28 Jun 2008 07:16:35 -0700 (PDT), jon_banquer <jon_b...@yahoo.com>
wrote:
>> Post 'em, it won't cost you anything except for your time. But there are a
>> lot more people with opinions than just me. Don't put too much stock into
>> the opinions of just a few folks.
>
>This weekend I'll post a few and solicit your comments.
Yep.
More hype, BS & noise for vaporware.
Just like the long-promised "review of BBS sytems".
He did not.
"cutting through the bullshit"
<Snicker>
>
>Jon Banquer
[
I'm committed to working with HSMWorks to doing just that. Shouldn't
be too hard because their head of US operations and I see things in
almost the exact same way and because HSMWorks is interested in what I
have to say and wants to work with me.
] - Jon Banquer -
[
Who I'm working with to deliver what truly will be the next generation
of CAM: www.hsmworks.com
] -Jon Banquer-
[
I understand why your shop did not go with HSMWorks. We have a lot of
work to do.
] - Jon Banquer
"Jon is not affiliated with HSMWorks ApS in any way and that we cannot
control what people are writing on the web."
"Anybody can get evaluation licenses of HSMWorks and test it themselves."
"I hope this clarifies any doubt."
>San Diego, CA
Nope, not even that.
Remember the X-files episode "Clyde Bruckman's Final Repose"?
[
Puppet: "There's something I've been wanting to ask you for some time
now. You've seen the things I do in the past as well as in the
future."
Clyde Bruckman: "They're terrible things."
Puppet: "I know they are. So tell me, please, why have I done them."
Clyde Bruckman: "Don't you understand yet son? Don't you get it?"
[Killer shakes his head] "You do the things you do because you're a
homicidal maniac."
Puppet: "That... that does explain a lot, doesn't it. It's all
starting to make sense now."
]
--
Cliff
jon_banquer
intimidating.
You don't want a massive learning curve learning stuff that seems
stupid to you.
You realize that you don't want to waste hours using a rollback bar to
try and understand some pick your nose engineer's design intent just
so you can modify their solid model to machine it.
You have to work with other people solid models.
You have to work with non-native solid models.
You use Mastercam and realize you want more powerful CAD.
You have seen SolidWorks and don't wish to be a CAD expert.
You use SolidWorks and realize it leaves a lot to be desired.
You use Pro/E and realize it leaves a lot to be desired.
You use Surfcam and realize Surfcam CAD leaves a lot to be desired.
You use Featurecam and realize Featurecam CAD leaves a lot to be
desired.
You use Rhino and want a modeler that's much better for mechanical
modeling.
You use Mecsoft Visual Mill 6 and want a better CAD program.
You use an old version of BobCRAP, hang up on their telemarketers and
refuse to downgrade your old copy of BobCRAP to BobCRAP 2007 / V22 and
give these lying Scientologist slime balls another dime.
I have some good news for you:
I can show you a better way to model!
If you are in the following categories you're a brain dead idiot and I
can't help you:
You use AutoCAD and think 2D is good enough.
You use Gibbscam and think it's CAD and CAM are just fine and have no
clue that Mastercam X2 blows Gibbscam away in most areas.
You use BobCRAP 2007 / V22.
You use Alibre.
You think Matt Lombard is a genius and actually knows something about
manufacturing.
You think Franco Folini is a genius and actually knows something about
manufacturing.
You think Novedge actually adds value to the CADCAM products they
sell.
You think that CATIA is an affordable answer.
You think CATIA has the equivalent of what Solid Edge with Synchronous
Technology has.
You think SolidWorks has the equivalent of what Solid Edge with
Synchronous Technology has.
The Jon Banquer blog has linked to a new video which makes it very
clear how much better thought out Solid Edge with Synchronous
Technology is and how easier it is to model with their new tools.
http://jonbanquer.baywords.com/
Jon Banquer
San Diego, CA
John R. Carroll
Archive-name: usenet/spam-faq
Posting-Frequency: weekly
Last-modified: 1998/11/10
URL: http://www.killfile.org/faqs/spam.html
Maintainer: tski...@killfile.org (Tim Skirvin)
Original-Author: cle...@ferret.ocunix.on.ca (Chris Lewis)
Current Spam thresholds and guidelines.
This article is intended to describe the current consensus spam thresholds
and ensure that the definitions of these terms are available and consistent.
It is believed that most, if not all, spam cancellers use these terms and
definitions in their work; however, many other people use the terms
inappropriately, which leads to confusion in discussions. This is an
informal FAQ aimed at clarity and understanding, not anal-retentive
correctness.
Excessive Multi-Posting (EMP) has the same meaning as the term "spam"
usually carries, but it is more accurate and self-explanatory. EMP means,
essentially, "too many separate copies of a substantively identical
article."
"Substantively identical" means that the material in each article is
sufficiently similar to construe the same message. The signature is
included in the determination. These are examples of substantively
identical articles:
- byte-for-byte identical messages
- otherwise identical postings minimally customized for
each group it appears in.
- advertising the same service.
- articles that consist solely of the same signature
- articles which consist of inclusions of other user's
postings, but are otherwise identical.
Cross-posting means that a single message appears in more than one group.
Most newsreaders allow you to specify more than one group in a posting.
Excessive Crossposting (ECP) refers to where a "lot" of postings to more
than one group each have been made.
Some people think cross-posting is "bad". In and of itself, it's good
behaviour - it allows you to reach more groups with less impact on the net.
Especially if you set the Followup-to: header to one group. It is "bad"
when it's done to attack newsgroups or provoke flamewars (like cross-posting
how to cook a cat between alt.tasteless and rec.pet.cats), but this is
beyond
the scope of this FAQ.
This author considers the term "spam" to mean excessive postings of
EMP and/or ECP variety. That is, "spam", is a generic term for several
different things. The term was originally supposed to mean EMPs only, but
most people use "spam" to mean "any excessive posting".
A spam, EMP, or ECP therefore refers to a posting that has been posted to
many places. There is a consensus that there is a point at which it is
abuse, and is subject to advisory cancellation.
A formula has been invented by Seth Breidbart which attempts to
quantify the degree of "badness" of a spam (whether EMP or ECP) as a
single number. The Breidbart Index (BI) is defined as the sum of the
square roots of n (n is the number of newsgroups each copy was posted
to).
Example: If two copies of a posting are made, one to 9 groups, and one
to 16, the BI index is sqrt(9)+sqrt(16) = 3+4 = 7.
The BI2 (Breidbart Index, version 2) is an experimental metric, which
may eventually replace the BI. It is calculated by computing the sum
of the square roots of n, plus the sum of n, and dividing by two. Eg:
one posting to 9, and one to 16 is
(sqrt(9) + sqrt(16) + 9 + 16) / 2
( 3 + 4 + 9 + 16 ) / 2 = 32 / 2 = 16
The BI2 is more "aggressive" than the BI, intended to cut off the "higher
end". BI allows about 125 newsgroups maximum. BI2 allows a maximum of 35.
A slightly less aggressive index is the SBI (Skirvin-Breidbart Index); it
is calculated much the same as the BI2, but sums the number of groups in
the Followup-to: header (if available), rather than the newsgroups. Eg:
one posting to 9 groups, and one to 16 with followups set to 4 is
(sqrt(9) + sqrt(16) + 9 + 4) / 2
( 3 + 4 + 9 + 4 ) / 2 = 20 / 2 = 10
Except in nl.*, where the SBI is followed, the BI2 and SBI are not used to
determine whether a spam is cancellable.
The thresholds for spam cancels are based only on one or more of the
following measures:
1) The BI is 20 or greater over a 45 day period.
2) is a continuation of a previous EMP/ECP, within a 45 day
sliding window. That is: if the articles posted within the
past 45 days exceeds a BI threshold of 20, it gets removed,
unless the originator has made a clear and obvious effort to
cease spamming (which includes an undertaking to do so
posted in news.admin.net-abuse.usenet). This includes "make
money fast" schemes which passed the EMP/ECP thresholds
several years ago. This author recommends one posting
cross-posted to no more than 10 groups, no more often than
once every two weeks (a BI of 3).
A single posting cannot be cancellable - to reach a BI of 20, it would
have to be cross-posted to 400 groups. This isn't possible due to
limitations in Usenet software.
These thresholds nominally apply to all hierarchies - not just the Big-8
and alt.*. Many hierarchies have more restrictive rules, which are decided
upon and enforced by their users and administrators; they may also opt out
of the cancellations, at the discretion of the same users and admins.
These cancels have nothing whatsoever to do with the contents of the
message. It doesn't matter if it's an advertisement, it doesn't matter if
it's abusive, it doesn't matter whether it's on-topic in the groups it was
posted in, it doesn't matter whether the posting is for a "good cause" or
not - spam is cancelled regardless, based on how many times it was said
and not what was said.
Administrators wishing to ignore spam cancels can "alias out" the site
"cyberspam", and the cancels will not affect your system. This is normally
done at your feed site, but patches are available for INN to allow you to
reject spam cancels on your own system. Ask in news.admin.net-abuse.usenet
if you need this patch.
Further literature on posting etiquette and related information:
The newsgroup news.announce.newusers
<URL:news:news.announce.newusers>
"What is Usenet", by Salzenberg, Spafford and Moraes
<URL:ftp://ftp.faqs.org/faqs/usenet/what-is/part1>
"What is Usenet? A second opinion.", by Vielmetti
<URL:ftp://ftp.faqs.org/faqs/usenet/what-is/part2>
"FAQ: Advertising on Usenet: How To Do It, How Not To Do It", by Furr
<URL:ftp://ftp.faqs.org/faqs/usenet/advertising/how-to/part1>
"A Primer on How to Work With the Usenet Community", by Von Rospach, et al
<URL:ftp://ftp.faqs.org/faqs/usenet/primer/part1>
"Rules for posting to Usenet", by Horton, Spafford & Moraes.
<URL:ftp://ftp.faqs.org/faqs/usenet/posting-rules/part1>
"Emily Postnews Answers Your Questions on Netiquette", by Templeton et al
<URL:ftp://ftp.faqs.org/faqs/usenet/emily-postnews/part1>
Numerous books and publications on Usenet, such as O'Reilly's "Stopping
Spam" (Schwartz and Garfinkel), the "Whole Internet Guide and Catalog"
(Krol), "Usenet Handbook" (Harrison), etc.
"Cancel Messages: Frequently Asked Questions", by Skirvin
<URL:http://www.killfile.org/faqs/cancel.html>
RFC 1855 - Netiquette Guidelines
<URL:http://rfc.net/rfc1855.html>
The above FAQs are also mirrored at various sites, including as
ftp.sunet.se,
mirror.aol.com, ftp.uu.net, ftp.uni-paderborn.de, nctuccca.edu.tw,
hwarang.postech.ac.kr, ftp.hk.super.net etc.
A mailing list has been set up to assist those wishing to post commercial
advertisements on Usenet in a responsible fashion. Email your questions to
comm...@acpub.duke.edu.
--
John R. Carroll
www.machiningsolution.com
jon_banquer
moi
"Cliff" <Clhu...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:arlp64dn0s1kgbvdc...@4ax.com...
> On Thu, 3 Jul 2008 06:15:33 -0400, "vinny" <vi...@rockREMOVE.com> wrote:
>
>>xsi softimage
>
> Is that the kernel Rhino is using?
Nope. XSI is a software package. Mostly used for rendering and animation.
Do your research.
> For games.
> I forget which gamer kernal they are using but poor
> clueless claimed that they had written their own (and
> was, as usual, dead wrong, while trying to drop names).
Rhino is not using someone else's "kernel". They have indeed written their
own.
--moi
DaisyFlower
manufacturing, well neither does Stevie Wonder. Didn't stop him.
What do you know about design? Nothing. So why does anyone care what you
say about computer aided DESIGN software? Nobody does.
List your DESIGN jobs please?
Show examples of products you have DESIGNED?
Who cares about manufacturing? We pay for the chinese to know that, we
don't have to pay to subsidize american welfare recipients too.
Daisy.
** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **
jon_banquer
over a barrel
"phil scott" <ph...@philscott.net> wrote in message
news:d4ad7cba-e5f3-4224...@x19g2000prg.googlegroups.com...
On Jul 2, 7:58 pm, jon_banquer <jon_banq...@yahoo.com> wrote:
<snip>
Cliff
I don't suppose (pretty low) banquer would do this.
--
Cliff
Cliff
>
>"Cliff" <Clhu...@aol.com> wrote in message
>news:arlp64dn0s1kgbvdc...@4ax.com...
>> On Thu, 3 Jul 2008 06:15:33 -0400, "vinny" <vi...@rockREMOVE.com> wrote:
>>
>>>xsi softimage
>>
>> Is that the kernel Rhino is using?
>
>Nope. XSI is a software package. Mostly used for rendering and animation.
>Do your research.
jb loves kernels & wants CAD & CAM to be (simple) fun games.
>> For games.
>> I forget which gamer kernal they are using but poor
>> clueless claimed that they had written their own (and
>> was, as usual, dead wrong, while trying to drop names).
>
>Rhino is not using someone else's "kernel". They have indeed written their
>own.
[
Rhino Power Solids introduces a state of the art precise CAD geometric modeling
kernel into Rhino. Power Solids and Power Booleans are powered by SOLIDS++, a
powerful NURBS based solids, surface, and polygonal modeling kernel from
IntegrityWare.
]
http://www.integrityware.com/
http://www.npowersoftware.com/
>--moi
>
>
--
Cliff
Cliff
<precision...@COLDmail.com> wrote:
>Fucking either go away or take it to private email you crossposting idiot.
Calm down, Sam <G>.
Just enjoy the fishing.
--
Cliff
John R. Carroll
The problem Cliff is that your idea of "fishing" looks an awful lot like the
infestation of Asian carp that is threatening the Great Lakes today.
Cliff
<jcarroll@ubu,machiningsolution.com> wrote:
>Cliff wrote:
>> On Thu, 3 Jul 2008 22:29:20 -0700, "over a barrel"
>> <precision...@COLDmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Fucking either go away or take it to private email you crossposting
>>> idiot.
>>
>> Calm down, Sam <G>.
>> Just enjoy the fishing.
>
>
>The problem Cliff is that your idea of "fishing" looks an awful lot like the
>infestation of Asian carp that is threatening the Great Lakes today.
Lots of infestations in those lakes I gather.
Had a SPAM yesterday about UK carp fishing.
--
Cliff
jon_banquer
intimidating.
You don't want a massive learning curve learning stuff that seems
stupid to you.
You realize that you don't want to waste hours using a rollback bar to
try and understand some pick your nose engineer's design intent just
so you can modify their solid model to machine it.
You have to work with other people solid models.
You have to work with non-native solid models.
You use Mastercam and realize you want more powerful CAD.
You have seen SolidWorks and don't wish to be a CAD expert.
You use SolidWorks and realize it leaves a lot to be desired.
You use Pro/E and realize it leaves a lot to be desired.
You use Surfcam and realize Surfcam CAD leaves a lot to be desired.
You use Featurecam and realize Featurecam CAD leaves a lot to be
desired.
You use Rhino and want a modeler that's much better for mechanical
modeling.
You use Mecsoft Visual Mill 6 and want a better CAD program.
You use an old version of BobCRAP, hang up on their telemarketers and
refuse to downgrade your old copy of BobCRAP to BobCRAP 2007 / V22 and
give these lying Scientologist slime balls another dime.
I have some good news for you:
moi
Wrong again, Cliff. PowerSolids is (actually WAS) an add-on (plug-in), not
part of the base version of Rhino. You also might want to check dates and
such before you post outdated info - note that the latest version of
PowerSolids offered was for the previous version of Rhino (V3) and doesn't
exist for the current one (V4).
The IntegrityWare "kernel" is being used however for MoI3D as far as I
know...
--moi (no relation with MoI3D)
Cliff
>>>> For games.
>>>> I forget which gamer kernal they are using but poor
>>>> clueless claimed that they had written their own (and
>>>> was, as usual, dead wrong, while trying to drop names).
>>>
>>>Rhino is not using someone else's "kernel". They have indeed written
>>>their
>>>own.
>>
>> [
>> Rhino Power Solids introduces a state of the art precise CAD geometric
>> modeling
>> kernel into Rhino. Power Solids and Power Booleans are powered by
>> SOLIDS++, a
>> powerful NURBS based solids, surface, and polygonal modeling kernel from
>> IntegrityWare.
>> ]
>
>Wrong again, Cliff. PowerSolids is (actually WAS) an add-on (plug-in), not
>part of the base version of Rhino. You also might want to check dates and
>such before you post outdated info - note that the latest version of
>PowerSolids offered was for the previous version of Rhino (V3) and doesn't
>exist for the current one (V4).
>
>The IntegrityWare "kernel" is being used however for MoI3D as far as I
>know...
Search out which kernel they switched to then. I did some
time ago & it's main use was for games (I'd checked the vendor's Site too)
and they had just licensed it for use in Rhino as their solids kernel (though
yesterday I found no mention of it (or even kernel) on their Site which is
where, IIRC, I'd found the info before).
--
Cliff
moi
> On Sun, 6 Jul 2008 13:29:19 +0200, "moi" <nor...@thisaddress.com> wrote:
> Search out which kernel they switched to then.
I know which "kernel" they are using... It's their own.
Find and post some accurate current info that indicates otherwise.
Otherwise, I'll just take your silence as a tacit admission that you have no
idea what you're talking about.
--moi
Cliff
They may still be using the IntegrityWare "kernel" for solids
& that free/open NURBs "kernel" for surfaces.
And playing a bit loose with the term "kernel" for this context?
Why would they try to write their own?
Find any such mention on their Sites.
>--moi
>
--
Cliff
moi
> On Wed, 9 Jul 2008 00:12:19 +0200, "moi" <nor...@thisaddress.com> wrote:
>
>>
>>"Cliff" <Clhu...@aol.com> wrote in message
>>news:b98274tl1u3km8sul...@4ax.com...
>>> On Sun, 6 Jul 2008 13:29:19 +0200, "moi" <nor...@thisaddress.com>
>>> wrote:
>>
>>
>>> Search out which kernel they switched to then.
>>
>>I know which "kernel" they are using... It's their own.
>>
>>Find and post some accurate current info that indicates otherwise.
>>Otherwise, I'll just take your silence as a tacit admission that you have
>>no
>>idea what you're talking about.
>
> They may still be using the IntegrityWare "kernel" for solids
> & that free/open NURBs "kernel" for surfaces.
> And playing a bit loose with the term "kernel" for this context?
Nope.
And that free/open nurbs kernel... who do you think wrote that?
What's a "kernel"...? :-)
> Why would they try to write their own?
To have complete control over its development.
> Find any such mention on their Sites.
I don't need to. I know what's going on there pretty well.
YOU find any mention that they're using something else...
--moi
jon_banquer
intimidating.
You don't want a massive learning curve learning stuff that seems
stupid to you.
You realize that you don't want to waste hours using a rollback bar to
try and understand some pick your nose engineer's design intent just
so you can modify their solid model to machine it.
You have to work with other people's solid models.
You use Alibre.
Technology is and how much easier it is to model with their new tools.
nitnit
I'm trying to figure out what's going on,
not tell anyone what is.
I remember seeing quite a lot of discussion at the, v2~v3, time
regarding the loss of Alias purchased AGLib usage and development
of their current geometry engine on McNeel's Rhino forum. Efforts
to search for any of those old discussions have been fruitless.
Archives hosed? Unfortunate if so.
If you can find any of the old discussions ...?
Regarding OpenNURBS, I've never paid much attention to it.
http://www.opennurbs.org/index.htm
openNURBS is an open source toolkit for reading and writing models
in the 3DM format. Our full-featured development platform is Rhino.
http://www.opennurbs.org/background.htm
The openNURBS Initiative was founded by Robert McNeel & Associates
in January 2000, with the sole purpose of providing CAD, CAM, CAE,
and computer graphics software users reliable methods for transferring
3-D geometry between applications.
http://www.opennurbs.org/faq.htm
Who is funding the openNURBS Initiative and why?
Robert McNeel & Associates. They feel that the 3-D market is stifled
because of the inability to reliably transfer 3-D geometry between
applications. The problem is too big for us to solve alone. By funding
the operating cost of openNURBS, others will get involved in the toolkit
design and development. It will be a much cheaper and effective way to
solve the problem.
It would appear that it is not intended to be a "kernel", e.g. geometry
creation and manipulation functions. True? ...
news:404f5ffd$1...@news.mcneel.com
The openNURBS toolkit does not contain any functions or classes
to assist in calculating intersections of curves or surfaces.
You will have to come up with your own intersector or find a 3rd
party product to use.
Dale Fugier
Robert McNeel & Associates
larry...@yahoo.com
> To no one in particular.
> I'm trying to figure out what's going on,
> not tell anyone what is.
>
> I remember seeing quite a lot of discussion at the, v2~v3, time
> regarding the loss of Alias purchased AGLib usage and development
> of their current geometry engine on McNeel's Rhino forum. Efforts
> to search for any of those old discussions have been fruitless.
> Archives hosed? Unfortunate if so.
>
> If you can find any of the old discussions ...?
>
> Regarding OpenNURBS, I've never paid much attention to it.
>
> http://www.opennurbs.org/index.htm
> openNURBS is an open source toolkit for reading and writing models
> The openNURBS Initiative was founded by Robert McNeel & Associates
> in January 2000, with the sole purpose of providing CAD, CAM, CAE,
> and computer graphics software users reliable methods for transferring
> Who is funding the openNURBS Initiative and why?
> Robert McNeel & Associates. They feel that the 3-D market is stifled
> because of the inability to reliably transfer 3-D geometry between
> applications. The problem is too big for us to solve alone. By funding
> the operating cost of openNURBS, others will get involved in the toolkit
> design and development. It will be a much cheaper and effective way to
> solve the problem.
>
> It would appear that it is not intended to be a "kernel", e.g. geometry
> creation and manipulation functions. True? ...
>
> news:404f5ffd$1...@news.mcneel.com
> The openNURBS toolkit does not contain any functions or classes
> to assist in calculating intersections of curves or surfaces.
> You will have to come up with your own intersector or find a 3rd
> party product to use.
>
> Dale Fugier
> Robert McNeel & Associates
McNeel use to license the AG LIb geometry kernel from Alias. A good
deal of Rhino was built on this kernel. There came a time when Alias
didn't want to license it to McNeel anymore and because Bob McNeel
signed a bad contract with Alias, McNeel had to yank out all the code
from AG Lib. Now McNeel is scared to license any components for Rhino
so Rhino develops at a snails pace as they try and do it all
themselves. Dumb move. So is ignoring the mechanical market.
Jon Banquer
San Diego, CA
http://jonbanquer.baywords.com/
nitnit
I don't know that not planting a worn out mechanical field is dumb.
Why is it every wino with a dialup is an expert analyst? Sad commentary on the species.
larry...@yahoo.com
The mechanical field is "worn out" because parametric-history based
modeling is over twenty years old and badly needs to be replaced with
better technology.
The opportunity for new and better ideas for mechanical modeling has
an established market that badly needs and wants better tools.
I’m sorry you have to use dial up and are a wino but I don't know what
that has to do with answering your question on what kernel (AG Lib)
Rhino use to use.
nitnit
Wino's repeat the same nonsense over and over.
> I don't know what that has to do with answering your
> question on what kernel (AG Lib) Rhino use to use.
Winos have comprehension problems.
I didn't ask what kernel Rhino "use to use".
larry...@yahoo.com
Wino's like you aren't very articulate and are hard to understand.
> Winos have comprehension problems.
Yes you do have comprehension problems, nitwit.
> I didn't ask what kernel Rhino "use to use".
You can barely put two words together that makes sense nitwit so who
knows what you asked.
If you're asking what Rhino uses now it's mostly their own stuff with
a little help from IntegrityWare.
nitnit
Winos can't follow complex sentences.
> If you're asking what Rhino uses now it's mostly
> their own stuff with a little help from IntegrityWare.
Rubbish. Or not, depending on what you mean.
Who owns the core function code? Is it licensed?
Written 'in house' or contracted out? If you can't
be more concise just shut up.
> The mechanical field is "worn out"
Because everybody and his dog develops a "mechanical" modeler.
They are being given away.
> parametric-history based modeling is over twenty years old and
> badly needs to be replaced with better technology.
Winos have a poor sense of ... whadayizzit? ... time ...
http://www.rzg.mpg.de/~sa2728/CADDS5-Doku/ExplicitModelling.pdf
... and comprehending tetetetechnology.
Winos don't have any business messing with customer furnished models.
Leave the cerebral work to someone capable of working with complex
concepts and sentences and, yep, maybe even CAD software.
Winos shouldn't operate machinery. Oh! That's right. You don't.
jon_banquer
nitnit
The names may change but the nonsense is the same.
jon_banquer
nitnit
Need a place to sleep it off, buddy?
Maybe take a bath and wash those clothes?
I know a group that can help.
"jon_banquer" <jon_b...@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:efc3882e-034b-4434...@z72g2000hsb.googlegroups.com...
jon_banquer
brew...@aol.com
>You think CATIA has the equivalent of what Solid Edge with Synchronous
>Technology has.
NO, CATIA is not equal, it has much more it's a CAD/CAM program where
Solid Edge is not.
Tom
Cliff
I'd sort of expect something like that as a NURBS curve or surface
will map to an IGES file & IGES needs no kernels to be IGES. And Rhino
started out as a surface modeler, not a solids modeler (which use
kernels to produce BREP solids from such as NURBS surfaces).
You don't need a kernel to create curve or surface either.
>news:404f5ffd$1...@news.mcneel.com
> The openNURBS toolkit
> does not contain any functions or classes
> to assist in calculating intersections of curves or surfaces.
> You will have to come up with your own intersector or find a 3rd
> party product to use.
> Dale Fugier
> Robert McNeel & Associates
>
But what of the current Rhino solids "kernel"?
--
Cliff
Cliff
Unlike banquercadcam with it's free demo .....
http://www.geocities.com/banquercadcam/
>Jon Banquer
>San Diego, CA
>http://jonbanquer.baywords.com/
[
The Jon Banquer Blog Has Moved!
June 14, 2008 – 6:08 pm
This host site doesn’t have the reliability or administration I need. Hopefully
they will in the future. Until it does
]
<Snicker>
--
Cliff
Cliff
>I don't know what
>that has to do with answering your question on what kernel (AG Lib)
>Rhino use to use.
You claimed that Rhino wrote their own new solids kernel
in a BBS post and in AMC.
You also wrote:
[
"4. What will happen to Parasolid in Solid Works?"
It will no longer be the main modeling kernel in SolidWorks.
] - jon banquer on Nov 7 2003
Have any more secret insider info from all your little voices?
--
Cliff
Cliff
>
>"Cliff" <Clhu...@aol.com> wrote in message
>news:97t7745t21r1en8nu...@4ax.com...
>> On Wed, 9 Jul 2008 00:12:19 +0200, "moi" <nor...@thisaddress.com> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>"Cliff" <Clhu...@aol.com> wrote in message
>>>news:b98274tl1u3km8sul...@4ax.com...
>>>> On Sun, 6 Jul 2008 13:29:19 +0200, "moi" <nor...@thisaddress.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>> Search out which kernel they switched to then.
>>>
>>>I know which "kernel" they are using... It's their own.
>>>
>>>Find and post some accurate current info that indicates otherwise.
>>>Otherwise, I'll just take your silence as a tacit admission that you have
>>>no
>>>idea what you're talking about.
>>
>> They may still be using the IntegrityWare "kernel" for solids
>> & that free/open NURBs "kernel" for surfaces.
>> And playing a bit loose with the term "kernel" for this context?
>
>Nope.
>
>And that free/open nurbs kernel... who do you think wrote that?
>
>What's a "kernel"...? :-)
They don't even call it a "kernel" at http://www.opennurbs.org <G>.
--
Cliff
nitnit
Cliff wrote:
>
> I'd sort of expect something like that as a NURBS curve or surface
> will map to an IGES file & IGES needs no kernels to be IGES.
> And Rhino started out as a surface modeler, not a solids modeler
> (which use kernels to produce BREP solids from such as NURBS
> surfaces). You don't need a kernel to create curve or surface
> either.
>
I don't know what to think OpenNURBS is. It appears, to me, to simply
be a library of functions that will read / write native Rhino 3dm. A
tool or hook for 3rd party developers? I don't know. The extent of
my knowledge ends with what I posted.
_ _ _ _ _ _
"Rhino started out as a surface modeler, not a solids
modeler (which use kernels to produce BREP solids
from such as NURBS surfaces). You don't need a kernel
to create curve or surface either."
What is a "kernel"?
Seriously.
Is that wino bait?
Are we just playing with semantics?
It looks like a serious statement, with which I can't agree, so I'm
lacking some knowledge or the terms used mean something inconsistent
with my understanding of them or the statement is incorrect.
First: What is a "solid"?
It's a concept, a database entity.
Unless something's changed since I last looked Rhino (v3) can create
and manipulate nonmanifold boundary representations, it can boolean
add or subtract two closed shells where there is an intersection. It
can calculate and report the volume represented. It can not create a
"solid" with an internal void. It can create the closed shell
representations. It does not have a database structure to contain
them, call it a "solid" and manipulate it as such; i.e. report the
"solid" volume or boolean subtract its volume from an encompassing
volume yielding two disjoint "solids".
In my mind THAT is what makes Rhino a "surface", vs. "solid", modeler
more so than its lack of all the typical Solid Modeler sequential
function call macros that create surface geometry, perform intersect,
trim, join operations consistent with the user defined boolean
operator and validate the manifold solid b-rep object without
additional user input.
To create a curve you need functions that accept two or more user
defined points at minimum, possibly tangent direction, curvature and
rate definitions and from that input return; usually, a graphic
representation and coordinate values for any point on that curve.
To create a surface you need functions that extend curve creation,
query and manipulation from one (U) dimension into the second (V)
dimension.
To create a shell you need a database entity to contain one or more
surfaces, their supporting (curve) entities or pointers to discrete
database entities that define them and any additional attributes that
may be associated with the object, and you need functions that will
manipulate the shell entity as a single object.
To create a solid you need a database entity to contain ... yadadada
... and functions to manipulate the entity as a single object.
So what is a kernel?
Parasolid, ACIS, Granite, ...
Is C(atia) A(pplication) A(rchitecture) a kernel?
Is Rhino's geometry engine, e.g. it's core creation, query,
manipulation function library a kernel?
_ _ _ _ _ _
"But what of the current Rhino solids "kernel"?"
Obviously I can't answer that question.
To the best of my knowledge, the extent of which was gleaned from
the previously mentioned and presumably lost forum discussions which
McNeel tech and development personnel participated in; their geometry
and database creation and manipulation functions are their own and
were written 'in house'.
If they have "solid" capabilities in addition to what I've described
above I have no idea if they are 3rd party add-on, core product,
licensed, owned, ...
I'd be tickled if I knew if they have a "kernel".
____________________________________________________________
____________________________________________________________
Cliff
You can have a volume enclosed by surfaces but that does
not quite make it a solids modeler.
Kernels deal with the boolean operations and relationships
and keep them updated, among other things.
Consider a simple cube with six NURBS faces.
Now put a hole in it ..... what became of those flat
faces? For one thing, you got "automatic" trimmed
surfaces in the "raw" database ....
They deal with topology.
http://www.plm.automation.siemens.com/en_us/products/open/parasolid/portfolio/educator.shtml
http://www.plm.automation.siemens.com/en_us/products/open/parasolid/functionality/index.shtml
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Euler_boolean_operation
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solid_modeling
http://www.jtopen.com/docs/xt_format_Oct06.pdf
--
Cliff
nitnit
> surfaces but that does not quite
> make it a solids modeler.
Who said it does?
And, what in this specific context does "enclosed" mean?
Generally speaking a volume is not defined by surfaces
but by "shells". It's the "topology" that makes the
difference.
Reread what I wrote. I indicated that, in my opinion, the ability
to create a shell, define a volume, ..., whatever does not a "solid
modeler" make.
And let's be specific: what we are talking about is b-rep modelers.
Some have the ability to create and manipulate (the volume with
internal void) "solid" (database) objects, some don't. Some have
the ability to create and manipulate "disjoint solid" objects, some
don't.
> Kernels deal with the boolean operations
Rhino does booleans. That's been stated.
> and keep them updated, among other things.
Ummmmm....
> Consider a simple cube with six NURBS faces.
> Now put a hole in it ..... what became of
> those flat faces?
They are still there. The surface definition remains unchanged.
Interior trim boundaries were added to shell (or whatever; some
database entity defining the trimmed surfaces) definitions.
Ref IGES type 144 Index 5 (PTI).
> For one thing, you got "automatic" trimmed
We'll have to agree to disagree that "automatic" does not
a solid modeler or a kernel make.
Putting that aside though:
Rhino does booleans, therefore "automatic" trimming.
Does Rhino have a kernel?
> surfaces in the "raw" database ....
Is this getting a little soft around the edges?
Where else would the definitions be?
> They deal with topology.
Rhino has database entities containing ("deals with") topology
definitions. Does it have a kernel?
> http ...
Thanks for the links. I'll check 'em out. Wiki I take with
a grain of salt. I assume, since you made the recommendation,
you're vouching for technical accuracy.
>> Is CAA a kernel?
> <silence>
I confess. When I entered this phase of the discussion I brought
with me the opinion that "What is a kernel?" resides with "Why is
there air?" Your statement took me by surprise.
What are Parasolid, ACIS, Granite but libraries of functions and
supporting data structure definitions? What is the scope of each?
When do application developers pass user input to library function
calls and when must they write their own functions and pass the
results to licensed library functions or simply integrate the
results in the data set? Who maintains the history and parametric
relationships? Varies. Correct?
(Now that it's been mentioned; what "kernels" do maintain history
and parametric relationships? I might lose my nickle but I'd bet
that is always the application developer's responsibility.)
I see no distinct difference between SchmoCAD passing user input
to an ACIS or Parasolid function and Rhino passing user input to
its 'home grown' function.
If you run across a nice, clean definition of "kernel" ...
maybe I'll buy it, maybe I won't.
Cliff
>What is a "kernel"?
The "operating system" of a solid in this context.
The vendor's applications software can interact with
it.
--
Cliff
Cliff
>
>Reread what I wrote. I indicated that, in my opinion, the ability
>to create a shell, define a volume, ..., whatever does not a "solid
>modeler" make.
You can also have "sheet solids" of zero thickness/volume.
--
Cliff
Cliff
>> Consider a simple cube with six NURBS faces.
>> Now put a hole in it ..... what became of
>> those flat faces?
>
>They are still there.
Yes, in the part's internal database though the usual
user does not know it.
>The surface definition remains unchanged.
>Interior trim boundaries were added to shell (or whatever; some
>database entity defining the trimmed surfaces) definitions.
>Ref IGES type 144 Index 5 (PTI).
Yep.
One can learn a lot from IGES <VBG>.
--
Cliff
Cliff
>Is C(atia) A(pplication) A(rchitecture) a kernel?
John Scheldroup
"nitnit" <n...@no.mail> wrote in message
news:6YadnRJyD_VYQ-bV...@yournetplus.com...
Developed with asynchronous-object-oriented analysis and programming an
evolved
approach from before when kernels and toolkits were developed with a
synchronous
structured approach like C language. Stars and rocks assemble their
particles of matter
via entropy while virtual solid objects come to form via their expert
systems of object
oriented analysis. http://www.smlib.com/gsnlib.html
John
Cliff
wrote:
What's a kernel?
And why is the ACIS one the best one & the wave of the future as you
claim? WHICH ACIS kernel?
--
Cliff
Cliff
wrote:
>http://www.smlib.com/gsnlib.html
I suspect that you may have really wanted http://www.smlib.com/smlib.html
--
Cliff