Used copies of Solidworks
Pat
full versions with original CDs with product key.
Are these legitimate? Does having the CD's with a legitimate product key
actually give one the right (or license) to use the software? I suspect
not, as the prices these sell for are usually quite low.
Thanks for any info.
Bonobo
the earpiece a bit.
Bo
friendlyf...@hotmail.com
I don't understand if I bought a $5k product that I did not use
anymore, why I would not be able to legitimitly sell it.
I know of a company that folded that had a Solidworks seat and it was
non-transferrable.
This is ridiculus. Ford would love to have this horsepoop with their
cars, just think how their new sales would be impacted if you could not
license a used Ford?
HumanAmp
hardware it runs on too ie PC with SW licence ? (or I s'pose pushing
this point - the hard drive).
In the UK, I've seen this done when companies close.
But obviously VAR's would prefer to collect as much new $$ as poss ;-)
Pat
news:1129717958.5...@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
So a SW license is non-transferable, even if you are the original license
owner? Are you sure? I ask, because a while back I saw an actual SW
license for sale on eBay. In that case, the person was asking quite a bit
more for it and the deal looked legit. Perhaps it's the case where the sale
(or transfer) has to be approved by SW first. I'd be surprised if they
outright barred it in all cases. As you indicated, that's quite an
investment to have to write off if, for whatever reason, you decide you
don't need it anymore.
I was guessing that the people selling SW CD's on eBay (for a low price)
don't actually own the license (and therefore can't transfer it).
Anyway, thanks for the reply.
IYM
yes, that you can sell the software that you spent $5K on....No problem!
Just as you can sell your used Ford. They have the problem with you selling
the software license...That would be like selling your used Ford, AND your
driver's license to someone and saying it was ok for them to drive that car
because they had your personal driver's license.... Again, this is how I
think they look at it in layman's terms. I wonder if they could make it
like a transferable registration similar to the way MS takes care of
Windows?...They don't care where or who uses the product, as long as you let
them know (more or less) SWx could do something like that, where a 10 day
lockout will happen if you don't register or something to that
effect.....It's just a thought off the top of my head first thing in the
morning, so I'm most likely missing something - so be gentle with the
flames......
Scott
<friendlyf...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1129717958.5...@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
Sporkman
> So a SW license is non-transferable, even if you are the original license
> owner? Are you sure? I ask, because a while back I saw an actual SW
> license for sale on eBay. In that case, the person was asking quite a bit
> more for it and the deal looked legit. Perhaps it's the case where the sale
> (or transfer) has to be approved by SW first. I'd be surprised if they
> outright barred it in all cases. As you indicated, that's quite an
> investment to have to write off if, for whatever reason, you decide you
> don't need it anymore.
>
> I was guessing that the people selling SW CD's on eBay (for a low price)
> don't actually own the license (and therefore can't transfer it).
>
> Anyway, thanks for the reply.
Unfortunately it IS the case that many software companies say that you
don't really own the license. Micro$oft is one of those, as well as
SolidWorks and most of the other CAD companies. It's tantamount to
saying that you give them money so that you have the right to use the
software, and that you can't transfer that right without their
agreement. I have heard, however, that SolidWorks Corp will agree to
license transfers in certain exceptional situations, like when a company
is bought out by another company. I thought I remembered that in
bankruptcies the license might be transferrable as an asset to a
creditor, but I'm not sure about that. I rather doubt that it's
transferrable at a liquidation (auction, or similar). Basically,
SolidWorks Corp has to approve it in advance, and they're going to be
picky. Without much doubt, eBay auctions don't qualify.
'Sporky'
Phil Evans
Snip
> Unfortunately it IS the case that many software companies say that you
> don't really own the license. Micro$oft is one of those, as well as
Snip
> 'Sporky'
Strange thing about Microsoft, it was Bill Gates who introduced the license
system after having blatantly copied and used software from other developers
to create his OS.
Prior to this it was deemed perfectly acceptable for software developers to
'borrow' from each other.
Sporkman
> Strange thing about Microsoft, it was Bill Gates who introduced the license
> system after having blatantly copied and used software from other developers
> to create his OS.
> Prior to this it was deemed perfectly acceptable for software developers to
> 'borrow' from each other.
And they called Bill Clinton "Slick Willy".
rockstarwal...@hotmail.com
opening a McDonald's. You can own a restaurant but you have to pay
licensing to use the McD logo etc.
rockstarwal...@hotmail.com
should go with it but the computer it's installed on is irrelevant.
FrankW
If you pay for a "licence" to use the S/W
You should also be able to sell the "license" if you want to
I'm sure a Mcdonald's franchise is transferrable/sellable
<<>>
in the license agreement. Because you don't own it you cannot sell it.
However you can transfer the license as defined in the license
agreement. Copyright is the law the basically locks the software down,
readup on title 17 of the United States Code.
rockstarwal...@hotmail.com
franchise like that pays ongoing fees as opposed to a one time
purchase. You can lay out the money once to SolidWorks if you want and
never pay maint. You've paid 100% of your license to use as long as you
want. If you want subsequent versions you need to renew maint. If
someone else wants to use it they need to pay for a licence too. I
really don't see what's "flippin BS" about it.
What do you expect SW to do? They're in business to make money like
you. Either suck it up or find a cheaper CAD package, one who's licence
agreement is within your budget and provides what you think is value
for the cost.
Look at it this way. The EULA is a contract. You're engaging in a
contract with SW. You pay them money, they provide you with software to
use within certain limitations. You're not buying anything except a
service.
Cliff
>I would say there is a problem if you cannot sell something you own.
If you sell your car does the licence to operate it or it's tags go
with it?
But in this case, you do NOT own the software .... only a
right to use it for a specific purpose at a specific place or firm.
Per your agreement when you "bought" it.
HTH
--
Cliff
Cliff
>I'm sure a Mcdonald's franchise is transferrable/sellable
Don't bet on it.
--
Cliff
HoffY
-DWH
Kelo Disaster
"Cliff" <Clhu...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:fhldl194chiijf9r7...@4ax.com...
> On 19 Oct 2005 03:32:38 -0700, friendlyf...@hotmail.com wrote:
>
> >I would say there is a problem if you cannot sell something you own.
>
> If you sell your car does the licence to operate it or it's tags go
> with it?
Doesn't matter if I'm only going to drive the car on my own property.
Cliff
I assume you did not sell it .....
--
Cliff
FrankW
Is that acceptable for you? I think the problem is that you can
sell the licence but Solidworks won't reconize it and won't allow you to
buy maintenance for it or upgrade.
I happen to love Solidworks and have no problems with it. Bugs and all.
And as much, as the Boss hates it, I insist on buying maintenance
Solidworks needs to mature a lot more yet.
Who the fuck are you anyway? Shit I hate people who hide behind hotmail.
friendlyf...@hotmail.com
Can you post your home phone number and address for me?
FrankW
Pat
But it's still the same issue. In this case you own the right to use the
software (that's what you paid for), so you should be able to sell that
right someone else.
That's how it is with other things like this. For example, if I buy a text
book I don't actually own all the information that it contains - someone
else owns the copyright.
But if I want to sell it, I sure can, and whoever buys it free to read it
all they want and lean all they can from it. That's how it should be with
software as well. The company should be under no obligation to offer
support or upgrades, but the person should be able to at least sell their
CDs and recoup some of their investment if they no longer need it.
In another thread someone claimed there was actually a recent court case on
this issue, and the court rule that, in effect, this was the case and a
person had the right to sell the software on their CDs. I don't know if
this is true, but I hope so.
TOP
You can purchase the software. You can agree to the license agreement.
But note that SW does not say that they grant the license for any
payment of money. And if they terminate the license the original
seller will apparently have to return the software to SW. The bottom
line is your chances of getting support, subscription services or
relief from SW coming after you or the seller are pretty slim.
"1.A. Grant of License. SolidWorks grants to you a nonexclusive
nontransferable license to use the Software and the printed and/or
electronic user documentation (the "Documentation") accompanying the
Software in accordance with this Agreement. If you have paid the
license fee for a single user license, this Agreement permits you to
use one copy of the Software on any single computer, provided that the
Software is in use on only one computer at any time."
"3. Other Restrictions on Use. This Agreement is your proof of license
to exercise the rights granted herein and must be retained by you.
Other than as permitted under the license grant in Article 1.B., you
may not use any portion of the Software separately from or
independently of the Software and other than for your normal business
purposes and you may not provide access to or use of the Software to
any third party; consequently you may not sell, license, sublicense,
transfer, assign, lease or rent (including via an application service
provider (ASP) or timeshare arrangement) the Software or the license
granted by this Agreement"
"5. Term. The license granted herein will continue until it is
terminated in accordance with this Article 5. SolidWorks may terminate
the license granted herein immediately upon written notice to you (i)
for justified cause, including without limitation breach of any
provision of Article 2 or 3 of this Agreement, or (ii) if you breach
any provision of this Agreement and fail to cure such breach within
fifteen (15) days of notice thereof. Upon the termination of the
license, you will promptly return to SolidWorks or destroy all copies
of the Software and Documentation covered by the license as instructed
by SolidWorks. The provisions of Articles 2, 3, 5, 7 and 10 of this
Agreement shall survive any termination of this Agreement."
Cliff
<pkelecy(removethis)@insightbb.com> wrote:
>"Cliff" <Clhu...@aol.com> wrote in message
>news:fhldl194chiijf9r7...@4ax.com...
>> On 19 Oct 2005 03:32:38 -0700, friendlyf...@hotmail.com wrote:
>>
>>>I would say there is a problem if you cannot sell something you own.
>>
>> If you sell your car does the licence to operate it or it's tags go
>> with it?
>> But in this case, you do NOT own the software .... only a
>> right to use it for a specific purpose at a specific place or firm.
>> Per your agreement when you "bought" it.
>
>But it's still the same issue.
You did poorly on the SAT verbal section?
>In this case you own the right to use the
>software (that's what you paid for), so you should be able to sell that
>right someone else.
Just like you paid for that auto & driver's license, right?
>That's how it is with other things like this.
See above.
>For example, if I buy a text
>book I don't actually own all the information that it contains - someone
>else owns the copyright.
Which gives them certain rights and restricts yours. But which is
also not a legally binding license.
>But if I want to sell it, I sure can, and whoever buys it free to read it
>all they want and lean all they can from it. That's how it should be with
>software as well. The company should be under no obligation to offer
>support or upgrades,
So your theory falls off the disc right there, does it?
>but the person should be able to at least sell their
>CDs and recoup some of their investment if they no longer need it.
Why?
>In another thread someone claimed there was actually a recent court case on
>this issue, and the court rule that, in effect, this was the case and a
>person had the right to sell the software on their CDs.
How many times to how many?
> I don't know if this is true, but I hope so.
--
Cliff
John J
> On Thu, 20 Oct 2005 11:52:37 GMT, "Pat"
> <pkelecy(removethis)@insightbb.com> wrote:
>
>
>>"Cliff" <Clhu...@aol.com> wrote in message
>>news:fhldl194chiijf9r7...@4ax.com...
>
>>this issue, and the court rule that, in effect, this was the case and a
>>person had the right to sell the software on their CDs.
>
Not quite. They have the right to sell the CDs. Right of first sale.
> How many times to how many?
>
>
>>I don't know if this is true, but I hope so.
Case involved Adobe in New York I think. Never heard about a final
resolution in the case.
And how many? Exactly however many copies of the software that he purchased.
As with a book, the copyright holder loses any sale rights once it is
sold the first time.
-john
Pat
"John J" <jjablonskd...@deluxestitcher.com> wrote in message
news:utednZG5Xox...@speakeasy.net...
So if somebody has the right to sell the CD's, does that mean the person
buying the CD's has the right to use the software on them?
If not, then it seems pointless.
Pat
Cliff
<pkelecy(removethis)@insightbb.com> wrote:
>So if somebody has the right to sell the CD's,
Yes, *sometimes*. See the license.
>does that mean the person
>buying the CD's has the right to use the software on them?
Nope.
>If not, then it seems pointless.
Exactly.
The CDs are not the license to use.
With something like a book or a record the right to read
that one book or play that one record comes with the item.
It does not give you the right to make copies any more
that passing alog a copy of some software gives you the right
to give it to someone else ... you never had that specific right
in the first place.
You *may* own the CD but you do not usually own the software.
In many cases you may not even own the CD ... look at the fine
print ... they can revoke your license and demand the CD back.
You'd best have it I expect.
--
Cliff
Pat
Thanks for the clarification. I understand now.
Allowing a customer to transfer their license seems like a reasonable
request (and probably the reason this topic comes up so much), but I also
understand there is little economic incentive from the company's standpoint
for this (perhaps they might gain some from maintenance renewals). There
are few that do, I think (Alibre maybe), but when you the market leader you
can pretty much set your own rules.
Thanks again,
Pat
Cliff
<pkelecy(removethis)@insightbb.com> wrote:
>
>"Cliff" <Clhu...@aol.com> wrote in message
>news:1o7sl1dlbjm390hcn...@4ax.com...
>> On Tue, 25 Oct 2005 11:56:01 GMT, "Pat"
>> <pkelecy(removethis)@insightbb.com> wrote:
>>
>>>So if somebody has the right to sell the CD's,
>>
>> Yes, *sometimes*. See the license.
>>
>>>does that mean the person
>>>buying the CD's has the right to use the software on them?
>>
>> Nope.
>>
>>>If not, then it seems pointless.
>>
>> Exactly.
>> The CDs are not the license to use.
>>
>> With something like a book or a record the right to read
>> that one book or play that one record comes with the item.
>> It does not give you the right to make copies any more
>> that passing alog a copy of some software gives you the right
>> to give it to someone else ... you never had that specific right
>> in the first place.
>> You *may* own the CD but you do not usually own the software.
>> In many cases you may not even own the CD ... look at the fine
>> print ... they can revoke your license and demand the CD back.
>> You'd best have it I expect.
>Thanks for the clarification. I understand now.
>
>Allowing a customer to transfer their license seems like a reasonable
>request (and probably the reason this topic comes up so much),
So ask the vendor you got it from or the firm (such a SW) what
can be done. Some will allow it for a small fee or otherwise
(not speaking here of SW as a case in known fact).
Asking is free <G>.
> but I also
>understand there is little economic incentive from the company's standpoint
>for this (perhaps they might gain some from maintenance renewals).
They probably already invested in the initial support & training.
>There
>are few that do, I think (Alibre maybe), but when you the market leader you
>can pretty much set your own rules.
I doubt that a great many view maintenance renewals as their
primary profit center. Probably they should though as the market
becomes saturated.
>Thanks again,
>
>Pat
>
--
Cliff
John J
> On Tue, 25 Oct 2005 11:56:01 GMT, "Pat"
> <pkelecy(removethis)@insightbb.com> wrote:
>
>>does that mean the person
>>buying the CD's has the right to use the software on them?
>
> Nope.
Court said yes last I heard.
>
>>If not, then it seems pointless.
>
> Exactly.
> The CDs are not the license to use.
>
> With something like a book or a record the right to read
> that one book or play that one record comes with the item.
> It does not give you the right to make copies any more
Yes it does. I can make all the backup copies that I want. I can make a
copy of my CDs to put them on my MP3 player. Fair use.
I can arguably make copies for a few friends.
I can NOT widely distribute or sell copies of that CD.
> that passing alog a copy of some software gives you the right
But you DO have the right to resell that book or record.
> to give it to someone else ... you never had that specific right
> in the first place.
> You *may* own the CD but you do not usually own the software.
You own the book, record, CD, etc. You do not own the content on said
medium. The copyright holder owns that still. BUT you have EVERY right
to sell that book that you no longer read. Or that crappy album you bought.
> In many cases you may not even own the CD ... look at the fine
> print ... they can revoke your license and demand the CD back.
> You'd best have it I expect.
You can put all kinds of stuff in a EULA. Doesn't mean it's enforcable.
By your logic, there could be no used book stores. Or used console game
stores.
-john
neil
if I end my business and wish to sell my assets what is SW worth?
nothing apparently because it isn't mine - and yet I depreciated it in the
books over time just like OfficeXP for instance.
there is no category for instant write off of large value software that has
special conditions insisted on by the vendor
in this country - NZ - I would owe the govt tax on the remaining value of an
asset...
but if it has no value to sell - no tax to pay?...
could any vendor conditions actually be enforced outside the US?
would I have years of legal battles ahead if I didn't comply with the EULA
or the tax dept?
to my mind the EULA is about piracy and intellectual property and not about
prohibiting ownership or rightful transfer and in this matter it is wrongly
or poorly worded.
Pat
> Cliff wrote:
>> On Tue, 25 Oct 2005 11:56:01 GMT, "Pat"
>> <pkelecy(removethis)@insightbb.com> wrote:
>>
>>>does that mean the person buying the CD's has the right to use the
>>>software on them?
>>
>> Nope.
>
> Court said yes last I heard.
>
Is that right?
So if I pick up a used set of Solidworks CD's on eBay for $150 I can legally
install it and use all I want?
If that's the case, then it would definitely be in Solidwork's interest (or
any company like it for that matter) to permit license transfers. At least
that way they might gain something through maintenance renewals.
Cliff
<jjablonskd...@deluxestitcher.com> wrote:
>Cliff wrote:
>> On Tue, 25 Oct 2005 11:56:01 GMT, "Pat"
>> <pkelecy(removethis)@insightbb.com> wrote:
>>
>>>does that mean the person
>>>buying the CD's has the right to use the software on them?
>>
>> Nope.
>
>Court said yes last I heard.
You probably misunderstood something.
>>>If not, then it seems pointless.
>>
>> Exactly.
>> The CDs are not the license to use.
>>
>> With something like a book or a record the right to read
>> that one book or play that one record comes with the item.
>> It does not give you the right to make copies any more
>
>Yes it does. I can make all the backup copies that I want.
Yes. Those are backups. You are very limited in what you
can do with them.
>I can make a
>copy of my CDs to put them on my MP3 player. Fair use.
Is it?
>I can arguably make copies for a few friends.
Not legally.
>I can NOT widely distribute or sell copies of that CD.
>
>> that passing alog a copy of some software gives you the right
>
>But you DO have the right to resell that book or record.
Yes. But it's not software under license.
>> to give it to someone else ... you never had that specific right
>> in the first place.
>> You *may* own the CD but you do not usually own the software.
>
>You own the book, record, CD, etc. You do not own the content on said
>medium. The copyright holder owns that still. BUT you have EVERY right
>to sell that book that you no longer read. Or that crappy album you bought.
Not your license to use software.
>> In many cases you may not even own the CD ... look at the fine
>> print ... they can revoke your license and demand the CD back.
>> You'd best have it I expect.
>
>You can put all kinds of stuff in a EULA. Doesn't mean it's enforcable.
Ask those that got huge fines or are in jail.
>By your logic, there could be no used book stores. Or used console game
>stores.
Not true.
>-john
See the BSA or a contract lawyer.
--
Cliff
John J
> "John J" <jjablonskd...@deluxestitcher.com> wrote in message
> news:gqudnfH8gZQ...@speakeasy.net...
>
>>Cliff wrote:
>>
>>>On Tue, 25 Oct 2005 11:56:01 GMT, "Pat"
>>><pkelecy(removethis)@insightbb.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>does that mean the person buying the CD's has the right to use the
>>>>software on them?
>>>
>>> Nope.
>>
>>Court said yes last I heard.
>>
>
> Is that right?
>
> So if I pick up a used set of Solidworks CD's on eBay for $150 I can legally
> install it and use all I want?
I would say yes*. Of course, logging in to the support site would be
wrong, since you haven't paid subscription. Of course, you could argue
that if the the S/N you're buying with the CD's is still in sub. service
you should be able to login. They do track that stuff after all.
> If that's the case, then it would definitely be in Solidwork's interest (or
> any company like it for that matter) to permit license transfers. At least
> that way they might gain something through maintenance renewals.
I agree.
-john
* This assumes, of course, that the copy of SW on Ebay is a legal copy.
ie: It's the SW cd's and not Memorex with a sticker slapped on it. Also
wouldn't cover selling your SP0.0 CDs when you get your SP1.3 CDs.
Cliff
<jjablonskd...@deluxestitcher.com> wrote:
>> So if I pick up a used set of Solidworks CD's on eBay for $150 I can legally
>> install it and use all I want?
>
>I would say yes*. Of course, logging in to the support site would be
>wrong, since you haven't paid subscription. Of course, you could argue
>that if the the S/N you're buying with the CD's is still in sub. service
>you should be able to login. They do track that stuff after all.
With a good licensing scheme you'd just have some very
expensive but quite useless CDs.
Probably perfectly legal <G>.
And you could do nothing .......
--
Cliff
AP
I do look to sell my preowned Solidworks professional with a plastic standard licence, let me know if you or anyone is interested. The licences cover Solidworks installation till the 2022 version.
--
For full context, visit https://www.polytechforum.com/solidworks/used-copies-of-solidworks-38400-.htm