Is Really The Best Mastercam Can Do...
jon_banquer
Siemens NX does this will little or no effort... just a few clicks and
one toolpath according to Michael Stevenson.
Apparently the e-Mastercam clique didn't want to answer this challenge
laid down by Michael Stevenson. Michael Stevenson's post / challenge
was deleted from CNC Advertising Zone, which is no surprise to anyone
with a clue.
Here is Mastercam and Siemens NX doing the same part:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A2TKdKAotWY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nKWSGWdvXFo
Jon Banquer
San Diego, CA
jon_banquer
Joe788
What is that supposed to prove? Both of those toolpaths weren't very
good.
Joe788
Jon, or Bill Grant, or whatever you're going by this week, why do you
keep going back to CNCZone if you hate it so much? Now that Bill Grant
is likely deleted, what will your next alias be?
jon_banquer
Joe788
Are you going to answer the question, or not?
jon_banquer
Joe788
So Siemens NX can make a crappy toolpath with just a few clicks?
That's fantastic!
jon_banquer
vinny
"jon_banquer" <jon_b...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:b2421b12-bc66-4f3c...@m36g2000hse.googlegroups.com...
Well,,I'll admit the mastercam pocket was pretty 90's looking. Sad actually.
One thing I was wondering, is it regular pocketing, or is it "constant angle
of engagement pocketing"?
Because if it's regular pocketing, I can "maybe" achieve the same results
as that on 9.1 mastercam, using multiple passes around bosses and a parallel
cut pattern for the pocketing type.
It would chop away just like the video, then circle around the bosses in 2
or three passes, whatever it was.
Now if it's constant angle of engagement pocketing
that's a different story. Mastercam needs steroids to do that.
vinny
> without a lot of effort?
>
> Siemens NX does this will little or no effort... just a few clicks and
> one toolpath according to Michael Stevenson.
>
> Apparently the e-Mastercam clique didn't want to answer this challenge
> laid down by Michael Stevenson.
Micheal Stevenwhatever should of posted his challenge to Usenet.
e-mastercam SUCKS!!! I forgot my damn password! lol
Damn if Im going thru that 3 friggen page sign up crap again.
Joe788
> "jon_banquer" <jon_banq...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
Nope. The NX toolpath buries itself just as poorly as the Mastercam
path.
The "Cimco-roids" HSM package for Mastercam will slaughter either one
of those toolpaths. What does NX have?
vinny
"Joe788" <joema...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:28909177-81a7-471d...@x29g2000prd.googlegroups.com...
I noticed the mastercam programmer neglegted to machine the top.
But then the second "programmer" went ahead and machined the whole damn
thing with the small mill, even though all that needed cut was 2 tiny
circles, the top of the finished part.
Ok, the first guy made a mistake. He was prolly smoking or drinking on the
job. Maybe going thru a divorce? Could be fixed with therapy, maybe some
yelling, etc...???.
But the other guy who machined the whole thing is clearly a friggen moron
and needs escorted off the premisis before he breaks something.
Joe788
> "Joe788" <joemama...@aol.com> wrote in message
I believe they were both programmed by the same "expert" with an
agenda.
Cliff
>I believe they were both programmed by the same "expert" with an
>agenda.
In a "demo" or training exercise the goal is to clearly demonstrate
a specific feature's capabilities, not to make a real part or even to
do things in the most effective manner. And you are usually showing
just one specific thing in a quick "free" video.
Don't blame the demonstrator or the system if it did not
show what you NOW want to see. You did not ask for it &
it was not made for that specific thing, probably/usually.
--
Cliff
Cliff
wrote:
>Apparently the e-Mastercam clique didn't want to answer this challenge
>laid down by Michael Stevenson. Michael Stevenson's post / challenge
>was deleted from CNC Advertising Zone,
Or he may have removed it himself, UG might have objected,
copyright problems, etc.
>which is no surprise to anyone
>with a clue.
Then you were so shocked that they had to revive you, right?
http://www.clas.ufl.edu/ipsa/2003/ginn/image013.jpg
http://www.subspecies.org/images/blog/0508/lightning-volcano.jpg
--
Cliff
Cliff
wrote:
>Siemens NX does this will little or no effort... just a few clicks and
>one toolpath according to Michael Stevenson.
IOW You don't have a clue.
BTW, Where did UG get the data & settings required to generate
it from?
MC needs a feedrate. UG needs a feedrate.
MC needs an RPM. UG needs an RPM.
All sorts of stuff (though perhaps UG can use more
feedrates).
--
Cliff
brew...@aol.com
<jon_b...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>by Michael Stevenson. Michael Stevenson's post / challenge
Isn't that one of your aliases Jon?
Cliff
wrote:
>without a lot of effort?
>
>Siemens NX does this will little or no effort... just a few clicks and
>one toolpath according to Michael Stevenson.
>
>Apparently the e-Mastercam clique didn't want to answer this challenge
>laid down by Michael Stevenson. Michael Stevenson's post / challenge
>was deleted from CNC Advertising Zone, which is no surprise to anyone
>with a clue.
>
>Here is Mastercam and Siemens NX doing the same part:
>
>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A2TKdKAotWY
"This video has been removed by the user."
>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nKWSGWdvXFo
"This video has been removed by the user."
LOL ....
>Jon Banquer
>San Diego, CA
HTH
--
Cliff
brew...@aol.com
<jon_b...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>Apparently the e-Mastercam clique didn't want to answer this challenge
>laid down by Michael Stevenson. Michael Stevenson's post / challenge
>was deleted from CNC Advertising Zone, which is no surprise to anyone
>with a clue.
Jon, isn't that one of your aliases?
Cliff
Probably not, Tom. IMHO.
http://www.ballardguitarworks.com/
Had it been jb he would have been long ago banned under that
name too no doubt.
--
Cliff
Joe788
It has nothing to do with what *I* wanted to see. *I* couldn't care
less.
When you're touting something as a "comparison", it needs to be
performed properly.
You don't post a comparison of a Corvette vs. a Mustang, have the
Corvette racing in reverse, and then claim, "Look how much better the
Mustang is!"
Well, I guess you could, but only the completely uninformed and
inexperienced (like Jon Banquer) would pay any attention.
jon_banquer
See what CNC Advertising Zone won't let you see:
Mastercam X vs. Siemens NX
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EHomO81uGfs
Jon Banquer
San Diego, CA
http://jonbanquer.blogspot.com/
brew...@aol.com
Are you playing on the net while at work?
jon_banquer
Joe788
> >New link. Now combined into one video.
>
> >See what CNC Advertising Zone won't let you see:
>
> >Mastercam X vs. Siemens NX
>
> >http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EHomO81uGfs
>
> >Jon Banquer
> >San Diego, CA
> >http://jonbanquer.blogspot.com/
>
> Are you playing on the net while at work?
Would you be surprised at all if he no longer had a job?
jon_banquer
BottleBob
jon_banquer wrote:
> New link. Now combined into one video.
>
> See what CNC Advertising Zone won't let you see:
>
> Mastercam X vs. Siemens NX
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EHomO81uGfs
Jon:
I thought your original point was that NX was able to GENERATE a
toolpath with less time and trouble?
Original statement:
===========================================================
Siemens NX does this will little or no effort... just a few clicks and
one toolpath according to Michael Stevenson.
===========================================================
So how does showing the two resulting toolpaths give any indication as
to which was easier to generate in the first place?
But, if you're just making a comparison of the toolpaths themselves,
here are a couple of things I noticed on a cursory look.
(1) The MC toolpath makes around 11 Z level steps to make the part.
The NX toolpath makes about 7 Z level steps. So to make a more fair
comparison the MC toolpath Z level increment needs to be increased to
match the same amount the NX toolpath uses.
(2) As Vinny pointed out, the NX toolpath starts by facing the
complete top rather than the just the small circles.
(3) Looking at how the NX programs starts to machine the part, I
notice that it starts off the part (which is normal), but it machines a
couple of curves with a sideways dip in it then finishes with the
endmill completely OFF the part, retracts in Z, then rapids to the next
OFF the part start point, rapids down and then goes through the same
motions stepping over an appropriate amount. When finished with the
front feature, it rapids to the back of the part to go through the same
process.
Cutting the part in this manner, the NX toolpath appears to have less
time IN THE CUT, and more air cutting & rapid moves. I'd like to see
the cycles times of both toolpaths with similar feedrates and Z steps.
I'm not sure this is a fair toolpath comparison between the two
programs, since it seems to me that BOTH toolpaths have some room to be
optimized, plus I would assume that both programs have other toolpath
strategies that could be implemented.
--
BottleBob
http://home.earthlink.net/~bottlbob
jon_banquer
> toolpath with less time and trouble?
Every time you try and think and then post you make serious mistakes.
Work on that.
My points are and have been:
1. CNC Advertising Zone moderators don't want this type of comparison
done and deleted it / censored it. Note, I didn't put this post,
Michael Stevenson did. CNC Advertising Zone has two prominent
moderators who are also moderators on the e-Mastercam forum clique of
idiots who don't want the truth about Mastercam exposed.
2. I wish to see more direct comparisons between UG CAM and other
systems. Others obviously don't and will do anything in their power to
stop it from happening.
3. Mastercam has many areas that have been broken for a long time that
CNC Software refuses to fix and instead they place almost all of their
focus on implementing new features. CNC Software doesn't give a dead
rats ass about what Mastercam users want and they are not unique in
any way in how they treat their existing users. This is the rule
rather than the exception in the CADCAM business. CNC Software /
Mastercam is far behind other systems in some areas and the focus is
on adding new features to Mastercam so they don't lose new sales and /
or old accounts.
If you wish to ask Michael Stevenson questions about this video by all
means e-mail him or contact him. I'm glad he did the video regardless
of whether it's completely objective or not because this type of video
is IMO what we badly need more of.
4. CNC Advertising Zone and Practically Worthless Machinist are driven
by advertisers wants and needs rather than focused on delivering the
truth about CADCAM. CNC Advertising Zone has deleted hundreds of posts
that are critical of CADCAM advertisers.
Joe788
How does any of that garbage you just posted, have ANYTHING to do with
the MCvsNX video on Youtube?
jon_banquer
j
thing he knows is cut & paste. Ya wonder if he even knows how to run
bobcad cam
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BottleBob
jon_banquer wrote:
>> I thought your original point was that NX was able to GENERATE a
>> toolpath with less time and trouble?
>
> Every time you try and think and then post you make serious mistakes.
> Work on that.
Jon:
You mean you DIDN'T state the following in your original post:
======================================================================
Siemens NX does this will little or no effort... just a few clicks and
one toolpath according to Michael Stevenson.
======================================================================
> My points are and have been:
>
> 1. CNC Advertising Zone moderators don't want this type of comparison
> done and deleted it / censored it. Note, I didn't put this post,
> Michael Stevenson did. CNC Advertising Zone has two prominent
> moderators who are also moderators on the e-Mastercam forum clique of
> idiots who don't want the truth about Mastercam exposed.
I rarely go to CNCZone so I don't have strong feelings about it either
way.
> 2. I wish to see more direct comparisons between UG CAM and other
> systems. Others obviously don't and will do anything in their power to
> stop it from happening.
I personally would also like to see direct comparisons of various CAM
systems. But I can see where it would be VERY time consuming and
difficult. To say nothing about biases and prejudices slipping into
the comparisons (either consciously or unconsciously).
>
> 3. Mastercam has many areas that have been broken for a long time that
> CNC Software refuses to fix and instead they place almost all of their
> focus on implementing new features. CNC Software doesn't give a dead
> rats ass about what Mastercam users want and they are not unique in
> any way in how they treat their existing users. This is the rule
> rather than the exception in the CADCAM business. CNC Software /
> Mastercam is far behind other systems in some areas and the focus is
> on adding new features to Mastercam so they don't lose new sales and /
> or old accounts.
The video seemed to show that the NX toolpath had more air cutting
time and rapid moves, i.e. the more inefficient toolpath.
>
> If you wish to ask Michael Stevenson questions about this video by all
> means e-mail him or contact him. I'm glad he did the video regardless
> of whether it's completely objective or not because this type of video
> is IMO what we badly need more of.
If a comparison is not done as objectively as possible, of what actual
use is it then?
--
BottleBob
http://home.earthlink.net/~bottlbob
brew...@aol.com
Hey Jon,
You on vacation?
Please tell us what you see in the video Jon. What is the video
supposed to prove?
The MasterCAM roughing routine seems intentionally poor and
misrepresented. looks like a pocketing routine when it should be the
high speed trochoidal roughing routine available.
NX looks (without a clearer view) fine for a one off or short run
but for a production it sure seems to have a lot of unnecessary
(wasted) motion.
Tom
gk
And here we have out resident parrot at work (again). Jonnie want a
cracker? Awk Awk
gk
jon_banquer
> systems. But I can see where it would be VERY time consuming and
> difficult. To say nothing about biases and prejudices slipping into
> the comparisons (either consciously or unconsciously).
You say you would like to see more direct comparisons of various CAM
systems. Nothing you have ever done has indicated to me that this is
the case.
In this case have you:
1. Left a comment for Michael Stevenson about his You Tube video on
You Tube?
2. E-mailed him and told him you think his video proves Mastercam's
toolpath is better?
3. Compared both toolpaths to what Surfcam Velocity 3 offers?
4. Asked Michael for the part (it was posted on CNC Advertising Zone
but it was deleted / censored) so you can do the same part in Gibbscam
and see what Gibbscam gives you.
BottleBob
Jon:
I was curious as to how Gibbs would deal with something like this, so
I created a roughly similar solid. The "towers" were simply round
layer cake type solids (4 stacked layers). I chose an end mill dia.
that seemed to be the same relative size as in the video.
As far as simplicity/complexity goes, after all the house keeping
information was entered (such as 7 Z steps, etc.), I selected the solid
and hit "Do It" and it created the toolpath. When I rendered it it was
plunging down in the middle of the part, so I told it to start off the
edge. I experimented with various step overs, but anything larger than
1/2 the tool dia. left islands (the tool had a tip radius that matched
the tower radii. After that it went fine. The Gibbs toolpath only
lifted off the part surface on the last move to start the next Z depth
pass.
I would say that the Gibbs toolpath was more efficient than either the
MC or NX toolpaths. But you'll no doubt chalk that up to me being a
Gibbs loyalist.
Actually, if I had thought of getting a copy of Michael Stevenson's
part, I might have done that.
--
BottleBob
http://home.earthlink.net/~bottlbob
Steve Mackay
Well, lets do some caparisons on CAM packages here... I can supply
toolpaths from PowerMill(older version however), and VX.
Maybe cliffy can do some as well... But trying to find the stone chisels
he used back in the day may be a tad difficult<BSEG>
BottleBob
BottleBob wrote:
>
>
> jon_banquer wrote:
>>> I personally would also like to see direct comparisons of various CAM
>>> systems. But I can see where it would be VERY time consuming and
>>> difficult. To say nothing about biases and prejudices slipping into
>>> the comparisons (either consciously or unconsciously).
>>
>> You say you would like to see more direct comparisons of various CAM
>> systems. Nothing you have ever done has indicated to me that this is
>> the case.
> I was curious as to how Gibbs would deal with something like this,
> so I created a roughly similar solid.
Jon:
I'm sure you suspect that I made all that up, so here's a screen shot
of the toolpath. It might be hard to see but try to notice that there
is only one area where Z+ moves are made.
http://i233.photobucket.com/albums/ee126/BottleBob_photo/TowerPlate.jpg
There may possibly be differences using Michael Stevenson's file, I
don't know. Small changes in geometry can sometimes may significant
differences in the toolpath.
As to you following question:
>> 3. Compared both toolpaths to what Surfcam Velocity 3 offers?
How would I go about comparing any toolpaths to Surfcam Velocity? I
don't have or use Surfcam. I don't even have the latest Gibbscam
"Volumill" toolpathing.
--
BottleBob
http://home.earthlink.net/~bottlbob
jon_banquer
> MC or NX toolpaths. But you'll no doubt chalk that up to me being a
> Gibbs loyalist.
Then let people judge for themselves.
An older version of Camtasia use to be available for free. Don't know
if it still is or not.
> Actually, if I had thought of getting a copy of Michael Stevenson's
> part, I might have done that.
I'm sure Michael Stevenson would send it to you if you asked.
BottleBob
jon_banquer wrote:
>> I would say that the Gibbs toolpath was more efficient than either the
>> MC or NX toolpaths. But you'll no doubt chalk that up to me being a
>> Gibbs loyalist.
>
> Then let people judge for themselves.
>
> http://www.jingproject.com/
Jon:
I downloaded the Jing thing (that has a nice ring to it), but during
the installation I got the following message:
The NTVDM CPU has encountered an illegal instruction. Choose close to
terminate the application.
Cool stick people.
>
> An older version of Camtasia use to be available for free. Don't know
> if it still is or not.
>
>> Actually, if I had thought of getting a copy of Michael Stevenson's
>> part, I might have done that.
>
> I'm sure Michael Stevenson would send it to you if you asked.
My own curiosity has pretty much been appeased. Perhaps you'd care to
get his file and make toolpaths with the software you have.
--
BottleBob
http://home.earthlink.net/~bottlbob
BottleBob
Steve Mackay wrote:
>> Actually, if I had thought of getting a copy of Michael
>> Stevenson's part, I might have done that.
>
> Well, lets do some caparisons on CAM packages here... I can supply
> toolpaths from PowerMill(older version however), and VX.
Steve:
That might be neat. First we'd have to get Stevenson's solid file, as
well as his end mill dia., tip radius, stepover amount, feedrate, Z
pass increments, etc.
Then we'd need a surefire way to view the rendered toolpath in
realtime. The Jing Thing didn't work on my computer.
>
> Maybe cliffy can do some as well... But trying to find the stone chisels
> he used back in the day may be a tad difficult<BSEG>
Well, I suspect he's been out of the loop a little too long for any
active participation.
--
BottleBob
http://home.earthlink.net/~bottlbob
jon_banquer
No interest at the moment. We use Mastercam X2 MR2 SP1 and I don't
wish to see us change to another package anytime soon. Mastercam is
the dominant package in smaller shops and I wish to spend at least
another year or more just using Mastercam. Mastercam will remain the
dominant package and get stronger if Siemens doesn't mount an
aggressive marketing campaign with Solid Edge with S/T and UG CAM
Express to smaller shops. Only time will tell if they go in this
direction. I think most of the focus from Siemens will be going after
SolidWorks, Pro/E and Inventor accounts as well as those who wish to
move away from 2D wireframe. Smarter Alibre customers will dump Alibre
if a trade-in deal is offered by Siemens. Mass conversion to UG CAM
Express might very follow conversion to Solid Edge with S/T. IOW
Siemens might see it as CAM follows CAD. Only smarter shops will make
the move to UG CAM Express sooner.
Do I think other packages have better toolpaths than Mastercam... yes
I do.
Do I believe what Vinny posted in regards to the CIMCO HSM package...
yes I do.
Do I know for a FACT, having used Surfcam Velocity 3 in the recent
past that SurfCAM Velocity 3 has far better 2 1/2 mill toolpaths than
Mastercam... yes I do.
Do I think Siemens Solid Edge with Synchronous Technology and Siemens
CAM Express is a far better choice and should be the choice for most
shops looking for better solutions... yes I do.
Do I have any interest in Gibbscam at the moment... none at all.
Do I think Volumill is going anywhere.... not as currently offered I
don't. They need to do their own CAM package. Their licensing plan
will never work. Just like it didn't work for Think3 or for
SpaceClaim.
Is better toolpath the only reason to switch to another cadcam
package... not in my opinion. I feel better toolpath is only one part
of a much larger equation and unfortunately most machinists like
yourself focus on just better toolpath.
jon_banquer
sooner and CNC Software has added new toolpaths which would need to be
considered.
http://www.mastercam.com/Products/Enhancements/
Too bad many of the old problems / bugs in Mastercam will remain
unresolved.
brew...@aol.com
<jon_b...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>Every time you try and think and then post you make serious mistakes.
>Work on that.
ROFLMAO....HELLO POT
At least Jon didn't say anything about your vises......
Bill
In both cases I didn't like the path. I would have used some type of
trochoidal path so my tool didn't have a full width cut between the
features. That said, in NX I would at least define a reduced "First
Cut" feed rate which tells the processor to use that feed for cuts not
controlled by stepover (full width).
Btw, you will NEVER convince a longtime user of either system to
change. Never. These comparisons hold a "little" value for folks
selecting a new system to use. Even then, it comes down to past
experiences of those doing the selecting. Also toolpath alone is NOT
enough of a reason to change.
--
Bill
jon_banquer
Didn't I post above that toolpath alone is not enough reason to change
when I said:
"Is better toolpath the only reason to switch to another cadcam
package... not in my opinion. I feel better toolpath is only one part
of a much larger equation and unfortunately most machinists like
yourself focus on just better toolpath."
Is there an echo in here or are you trying to agree with me?
You say that long time users of Mastercam will never change. How can
long time Mastercam users not change if they need support for lathes
with multiple turrets and need to see verification of their toolpath?
Apparently many Mastercam users have changed or at the very least
added DP Esprit to their programming toolbox. Do you still read the e-
Mastercam forum? There is a recent thread on this topic. What is not
clear to me is why UG CAM Express isn't considered.
Lets take your case. You "changed" to Mastercam for several years
while you worked at Haas didn't you?
Keep in mind that not every shop thinks like Haas does and that some
shops do indeed change when a decision maker has had enough.
Crower changed in the last year or so from 5 seats of Mastercam to 5
seats of Camworks.
Shops change all the time, despite your and Bottlebob's claims
otherwise.
Modern Industries, the largest job shop in the Phoenix, Arizona area,
changed from SmartCAM to Mastercam.
You are going to see a lot of SolidWorks shops change to or add
Siemens Solid Edge with S/T.
jon_banquer
done by Michael Stevenson is now available:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EHomO81uGfs&fmt=18
Bill
> Didn't I post above that toolpath alone is not enough reason to change
> when I said:
>
> "Is better toolpath the only reason to switch to another cadcam
> package... not in my opinion. I feel better toolpath is only one part
> of a much larger equation and unfortunately most machinists like
> yourself focus on just better toolpath."
>
> Is there an echo in here or are you trying to agree with me?
For me? Assemblies in the manufactuing package. Wouldn't want to live
without it.
>
> You say that long time users of Mastercam will never change. How can
> long time Mastercam users not change if they need support for lathes
> with multiple turrets and need to see verification of their toolpath?
>
If it doesn't exist in their current package, they work around till
their package does have it.
> Apparently many Mastercam users have changed or at the very least
> added DP Esprit to their programming toolbox. Do you still read the e-
> Mastercam forum? There is a recent thread on this topic. What is not
> clear to me is why UG CAM Express isn't considered.
UG has always been one of the "Axis of Evils" to MC users. It's
considered expensive, hard to learn, and those UG programmers are just
plain lazy.
>
> Lets take your case. You "changed" to Mastercam for several years
> while you worked at Haas didn't you?
It was forced... and thankfully shortlived. <g>
> You are going to see a lot of SolidWorks shops change to or add
> Siemens Solid Edge with S/T.
Not if there is tons of archived data to deal with. Trust me. Btw, the
"hope" is the MC inside SW plan.
--
Bill
BottleBob
jon_banquer wrote:
>> Perhaps you'd care to get his file and make toolpaths with the software you have.
>
> No interest at the moment. We use Mastercam X2 MR2 SP1 and I don't
> wish to see us change to another package anytime soon. Mastercam is
> the dominant package in smaller shops and I wish to spend at least
> another year or more just using Mastercam.
Jon:
So now YOU'RE a MasterCAM loyalist??? Whatever is the world coming
to! You've shaken the very foundation of the Jon Banquer CAM Jihads.
> Mastercam will remain the
> dominant package and get stronger if Siemens doesn't mount an
> aggressive marketing campaign with Solid Edge with S/T and UG CAM
> Express to smaller shops.
I've recommended MasterCAM for years, because of the number of seats
out there, and the ease of finding people who already know one version
or other.
> Only time will tell if they go in this
> direction. I think most of the focus from Siemens will be going after
> SolidWorks, Pro/E and Inventor accounts as well as those who wish to
> move away from 2D wireframe. Smarter Alibre customers will dump Alibre
> if a trade-in deal is offered by Siemens. Mass conversion to UG CAM
> Express might very follow conversion to Solid Edge with S/T. IOW
> Siemens might see it as CAM follows CAD. Only smarter shops will make
> the move to UG CAM Express sooner.
>
> Do I think other packages have better toolpaths than Mastercam... yes
> I do.
>
> Do I believe what Vinny posted in regards to the CIMCO HSM package...
> yes I do.
>
> Do I know for a FACT, having used Surfcam Velocity 3 in the recent
> past that SurfCAM Velocity 3 has far better 2 1/2 mill toolpaths than
> Mastercam... yes I do.
>
> Do I think Siemens Solid Edge with Synchronous Technology and Siemens
> CAM Express is a far better choice and should be the choice for most
> shops looking for better solutions... yes I do.
>
> Do I have any interest in Gibbscam at the moment... none at all.
>
> Do I think Volumill is going anywhere.... not as currently offered I
> don't. They need to do their own CAM package. Their licensing plan
> will never work. Just like it didn't work for Think3 or for
> SpaceClaim.
From what I understand Volumill has been an option in Gibbs for a year
or more. We're a few years back on maintenance, so we don't have it,
maybe next year.
>
> Is better toolpath the only reason to switch to another cadcam
> package... not in my opinion. I feel better toolpath is only one part
> of a much larger equation and unfortunately most machinists like
> yourself focus on just better toolpath.
Excuse me? YOU'RE the one that's been crowing for YEARS about how all
shops need the latest and greatest toolpathing, of one CAM system or
another, among other things. *I'm* the one that was always
conservatively considering the bigger picture of losing the use of
thousands of legacy programs, the expense of training and getting up to
speed due to the learning curve of switching to a new CAM system, plus
post processor issues that would have to be resolved, etc. etc.
So what are you saying, that all your CAM jihads were just so much
rhetoric? Why I SHOCKED & DISMAYED! OTF-LMAO
--
BottleBob
http://home.earthlink.net/~bottlbob
BottleBob
Tom:
The coolie wages and Chinese vises will probably come in the next
installment. LOL
--
BottleBob
http://home.earthlink.net/~bottlbob
Cliff
>On Jul 22, 10:51 pm, Cliff <Clhupr...@aol.com> wrote:
>> On Tue, 22 Jul 2008 23:16:38 -0700 (PDT), Joe788 <joemama...@aol.com> wrote:
>> >I believe they were both programmed by the same "expert" with an
>> >agenda.
>>
>> In a "demo" or training exercise the goal is to clearly demonstrate
>> a specific feature's capabilities, not to make a real part or even to
>> do things in the most effective manner. And you are usually showing
>> just one specific thing in a quick "free" video.
>>
>> Don't blame the demonstrator or the system if it did not
>> show what you NOW want to see. You did not ask for it &
>> it was not made for that specific thing, probably/usually.
>> --
>> Cliff
>
>It has nothing to do with what *I* wanted to see. *I* couldn't care
>less.
>
>When you're touting something as a "comparison", it needs to be
>performed properly.
Start with a features comparison chart.
Probably some could be found in some of the trades
or online between SE & SW (or even at the vendor's sites).
I've not bothered to look or search.
Consider anything new in ONE only after looking at all
the rest.
>You don't post a comparison of a Corvette vs. a Mustang, have the
>Corvette racing in reverse, and then claim, "Look how much better the
>Mustang is!"
>
>Well, I guess you could, but only the completely uninformed and
>inexperienced (like Jon Banquer) would pay any attention.
Not for nothing is he known as clueless.
--
Cliff
BottleBob
jon_banquer wrote:
> Shops change all the time, despite your and Bottlebob's claims
> otherwise.
Jon:
Opps, let's not get too carried away now. When have I EVER claimed
that shops NEVER change CAM systems? Making a claim like that would be
nothing other than ridiculous.
--
BottleBob
http://home.earthlink.net/~bottlbob
Cliff
>On Wed, 23 Jul 2008 09:21:40 -0700 (PDT), jon_banquer
><jon_b...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>>New link. Now combined into one video.
>>
>>See what CNC Advertising Zone won't let you see:
>>
>>Mastercam X vs. Siemens NX
>>
>>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EHomO81uGfs
>>
>>Jon Banquer
>>San Diego, CA
>>http://jonbanquer.blogspot.com/
>>
>
>Are you playing on the net while at work?
I'd wager that they caught on & he's been canned yet again.
Sometime in the last two weeks or so.
--
Cliff
Cliff
>NX toolpath
All based on the options chosen & inputs provided by the user, BB.
You can blame neither system for anything, just jb for being so
utterly clueless.
--
Cliff
Cliff
wrote:
>Mastercam has many areas that have been broken for a long time
But actual expert users say that you are utterly clueless &
full of BS.
But we already knew that.
--
Cliff
BottleBob
Cliff wrote:
> On Wed, 23 Jul 2008 10:42:54 -0700, BottleBob <bott...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
>> NX toolpath
>
> All based on the options chosen & inputs provided by the user, BB.
Cliff:
Did you perhaps miss this comment of mine that was in the post you're
responding to:
"I'm not sure this is a fair toolpath comparison between the two
programs, since it seems to me that BOTH toolpaths have some room to be
optimized, plus I would assume that both programs have other toolpath
strategies that could be implemented."
--
BottleBob
http://home.earthlink.net/~bottlbob
Cliff
wrote:
>My points are and have been:
Garbage piled how deep & wide?
>1. CNC Advertising Zone moderators don't want this type of comparison
>done and deleted it / censored it.
And you know that exactly how?
>Note, I didn't put this post,
>Michael Stevenson did.
The Youtube videos also got yanked.
This smells like a copyright issue to me.
But you have no problems with theft, right?
I'd guess that Mike Stevenson was unaware
of the problem in the first place.
>CNC Advertising Zone has two prominent
>moderators who are also moderators on the e-Mastercam forum clique of
>idiots who don't want the truth about Mastercam exposed.
They don't put up with your clueless BS & hype for long anymore you say?
>2. I wish to see more direct comparisons between UG CAM and other
>systems. Others obviously don't and will do anything in their power to
>stop it from happening.
Nutcase.
You have repeatedly shown all for about decade that you
do not & cannot use CAD or CAM, much less CAD/CAM.
--
Cliff
Cliff
>On Jul 23, 10:05 am, jon_banquer <jon_banq...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> > I thought your original point was that NX was able to GENERATE a
>> > toolpath with less time and trouble?
>>
>> Every time you try and think and then post you make serious mistakes.
>> Work on that.
>>
>> My points are and have been:
>>
>> 1. CNC Advertising Zone moderators don't want this type of comparison
>> done and deleted it / censored it. Note, I didn't put this post,
>> Michael Stevenson did. CNC Advertising Zone has two prominent
>> moderators who are also moderators on the e-Mastercam forum clique of
>> idiots who don't want the truth about Mastercam exposed.
>>
>> 2. I wish to see more direct comparisons between UG CAM and other
>> systems. Others obviously don't and will do anything in their power to
>> stop it from happening.
>>
>> 3. Mastercam has many areas that have been broken for a long time that
>> CNC Software refuses to fix and instead they place almost all of their
>> focus on implementing new features. CNC Software doesn't give a dead
>> rats ass about what Mastercam users want and they are not unique in
>> any way in how they treat their existing users. This is the rule
>> rather than the exception in the CADCAM business. CNC Software /
>> Mastercam is far behind other systems in some areas and the focus is
>> on adding new features to Mastercam so they don't lose new sales and /
>> or old accounts.
>>
>> If you wish to ask Michael Stevenson questions about this video by all
>> means e-mail him or contact him. I'm glad he did the video regardless
>> of whether it's completely objective or not because this type of video
>> is IMO what we badly need more of.
>>
>> 4. CNC Advertising Zone and Practically Worthless Machinist are driven
>> by advertisers wants and needs rather than focused on delivering the
>> truth about CADCAM. CNC Advertising Zone has deleted hundreds of posts
>> that are critical of CADCAM advertisers.
>>
>> Jon Banquer
>> San Diego, CAhttp://jonbanquer.blogspot.com/
>
>How does any of that garbage you just posted, have ANYTHING to do with
>the MCvsNX video on Youtube?
"My points are and have been" == "Mastercam X vs. Siemens NX" per
poor clueless.
LOL ...
--
Cliff
Cliff
wrote:
>> I thought your original point was that NX was able to GENERATE a
>> toolpath with less time and trouble?
>
>Every time you try and think and then post you make serious mistakes.
>Work on that.
But the videos did NOT show what you claimed AT ALL.
>My points are and have been:
Endless comprehension problems?
--
Cliff
jon_banquer
Why should I limit my income potential? I'm a marketplace realist.
Unlike you I don't work for "coolie wages" and I haven't been too lazy
and too much of a chicken shit pussy to change shops to increase my
skill level.
With Mastercam X2 MR2 I can now deal with Mastercam without wanting to
toss the computer off the table.
The rest of your post was worthless bullshit on Joe 788 or Tom Brewer
level so I didn't bother to respond to it.
Cliff
>Actually, if I had thought of getting a copy of Michael Stevenson's
>part, I might have done that.
It's probably not his part nor his programming.
I'd doubt that he has both UG & MasterCAM.
While we did at AO Smith the MC stuff was just used for
two SFP applications (one a wire EDM task) and
even that was just because that's what the users knew.
Cheaper to let them hve MC than to train them on UG
was (i'm guessing) the shop's call (that specific shop/department).
After knowing some of those users a bit I might have agreed too.
And the data that they used was throw-away one-shot use anyway;
I don't think that their computers were even backed up. Not on
the network anyway.
--
Cliff
John R. Carroll
> On Jul 23, 8:36 am, brewe...@aol.com wrote:
>> On Wed, 23 Jul 2008 09:21:40 -0700 (PDT), jon_banquer
>>
>>> New link. Now combined into one video.
>>
>>> See what CNC Advertising Zone won't let you see:
>>
>>
>>
>>> Jon Banquer
>>> San Diego, CA
>>> http://jonbanquer.blogspot.com/
>>
>> Are you playing on the net while at work?
>
BZZZZZZZZZZZZZT!
--
John R. Carroll
www.machiningsolution.com
jon_banquer
> without it.
Understood. Too bad almost no one else in alt.machines.cnc does.
> If it doesn't exist in their current package, they work around till
> their package does have it.
In many cases that means buying DP Esprit and then doing what you
stated above. Sad, isn't it.
> UG has always been one of the "Axis of Evils" to MC users. It's
> considered expensive, hard to learn, and those UG programmers are just
> plain lazy.
I've read James Meyette, John Paris and others clique idiots on e-
Mastercam post this crap over and over and over. Nothings going to
change until Siemens and their VAR's decide to do a better job of
marketing Siemens NX CAM. Solid Edge with S/T is a good chance to
start a new with far better marketing.
> It was forced... and thankfully shortlived. <g>
Is there some reason you can't take the good from it and shut up? <g>
At least Haas made good use of probing right? I couldn't even get the
owner of the shop I worked for before I took the job I have now to
make use of automated part probing on the Matsuura.
> Not if there is tons of archived data to deal with. Trust me.
I don't trust you on this because I know what has happened with Modern
Industries and with other shops. Modern Industries made the move away
from SmartCAM to Mastercam and they are the largest machining job shop
in the Phoenix, Arizona area.
>Btw, the "hope" is the MC inside SW plan.
Be interesting to see what happens with this. FeatureCAM is going to
have a FeatureCAM inside SW program as well. Without massive changes
to SolidWorks this plan is going to run into problems in many shops
and will divide the market even further than it is now.
BottleBob
jon_banquer wrote:
>> So now YOU'RE a MasterCAM loyalist???
> Unlike you I don't work for "coolie wages" and I haven't been too lazy
> and too much of a chicken shit pussy to change shops to increase my
> skill level.
Jon:
What? No Chinese Vise critique to go along with the coolie wages
shtick?
It appears we've reached your civility limit for this go round. You
lasted for more posts than usual. You must be mellowing out. LOL
--
BottleBob
http://home.earthlink.net/~bottlbob
Cliff
wrote:
>Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2008 13:40:06 -0700 (PDT)
>NNTP-Posting-Host: 72.220.137.122
= ip72-220-137-122.sd.sd.cox.net
Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2007 07:22:23 -0800 (PST)
NNTP-Posting-Host: 72.220.137.122
Same.
--
Cliff
Cliff
>Thats the problem with him. No original point whatesoever. The only
>thing he knows is cut & paste. Ya wonder if he even knows how to run
>bobcad cam
No need to wonder. He does not.
--
Cliff
Cliff
wrote:
>Too bad many of the old problems / bugs in Mastercam will remain
>unresolved.
Your problem is drilling a few holes. Correctly.
--
Cliff
jon_banquer
done by Michael Stevenson is now available:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EHomO81uGfs&fmt=18
Jon Banquer
Cliff
wrote:
>New high resolution video of this comparison of Mastercam to UG NX
>done by Michael Stevenson is now available:
>
>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EHomO81uGfs&fmt=18
<Sheesh>
That actually *compares* nothing.
Nor does it in any way support your BS claims & clueless hype.
>Jon Banquer
>San Diego, CA
>http://jonbanquer.blogspot.com/
>
Did you even bother to look at it & think?
Nope.
--
Cliff
Crazym...@gmail.com
Hello Dumbass, Did you look at the fact he using X not X2 or X2mr1 or
X2mr2. So I always wonder what a fruitcake like yourself gets out of
these rants. Only your limited mind would know. Mike is like you hates
Mastercam for some reason. I personally like it since it gives me the
ability to work from home 2 days a week and I can keep 16 machine
programmed and running from 2 axis lathe, to 4 axis lathes, to 5 axis
Integrex lathe with Dual spindle. I can program all of our mills and
add a Horizontal soon. Is it the best out there NO. Dumbass I will
repeat it no Dumbass it is not the greatest out there. I am one of
those that believe for Mill/Turn and simulation Esprit does a Better
job. For toolpaths no. I can do things in Mastercam with my own
deveopled sync Method Esprit can not do easily. Again is it the best
NO, Can it get the job doen and help companies make Money yes!!! That
is what is important. When I see Mike do the 40 other Cam program
comparisons and do it with real toolpaths that are current and not
years old I might be impressed.
There was something I posed to your God, Mike and that was Catia
requirements for shops that are MBD Boeing shops what good does UG do
them??? Nothing not a word. What about a shop using Catia they are
suppose to abondan all of the Macros, Libaries, and I-Cam for UG off
of a Mastercam to NX video. Mike made a wild ares comment he could do
in 15 minutes in Catia what would take Mastercam 40 hours in the
CNCZONE. Again never backing that up. Then he truly insulted me
calling me you very funny indeed because I am crazy and you just wish
you were. You hate emastercam web site ok. What does you hating people
have to do with CAM/CAD not a damn thing. You are a dumbass and you
keep showing that time and time again. The people over in the
emastercam forum for the most part are good people, yet you choose to
be the disrespectful person that you are insulting and degrading to
people and wonder why nobody want to put up with that. Imagine if you
just shut up and did what everyone else does and tried to help others
verse being the little baby that you are. Weird concept to you I know,
but give it a try you might be surprised you can help people if you
try to help them verse spending your time trying to destroy people.
I wish you the best in your new crusade to destroy Mastercam again. I
hope that God can find his way into your heart and let you see what
truely matter in this world and what does not.
Respectfully as I can be,
Ron Branch aka Crazy^Millman
Garlicdude
>
> Hello Dumbass,
I
> hope that God can find his way into your heart and let you see what
> truely matter in this world and what does not.
>
> Respectfully as I can be,
>
> Ron Branch aka Crazy^Millman
Ron, God isn't gonna like you if you keep calling one of his
creations dumbass, not a very Christan attitude.
--
Regards,
Steve Saling
aka The Garlic Dude ©
Gilroy, CA
The Garlic Capital of The World
Crazym...@gmail.com
Yeah keeping working on that. Good thing is once you are saved you
always saved, never makes you perfect though. All I can do is ask for
God's forgiveness. My old self would have said far worse.
jon_banquer
> X2mr2.
There isn't a great deal of difference in pocketing that I've noticed
between these versions. Then again, as my blog makes very clear, I've
only been using Mastercam for a little over a year. I've always
wondered why someone like yourself can't read what I write on my blog
or here and figure that out.
>So I always wonder what a fruitcake like yourself gets out of
>these rants.
Seems like a good time to repeat myself. I've always wondered why
someone like you can't read what I write and figure it out.
Focus and pay attention to detail now before god gets really pissed at
you.
>Mike is like you hates Mastercam for some reason.
I don't hate Mastercam. Seems like I need to repeat myself again
because with product loyalists like you, lots of stuff doesn't sink
in. There are many things I like about Mastercam and I've said so both
here and on my blog. I've always wondered why someone like you can't
read what I write and figure that out. I think it's because guys like
you are blinded by hatred toward what I say and the blunt way I say
it.
>I personally like it since it gives me the ability to work from home
>2 days a week and I can keep 16 machine
> programmed and running from 2 axis lathe, to 4 axis lathes, to 5 axis
> Integrex lathe with Dual spindle. I can program all of our mills and
> add a Horizontal soon. Is it the best out there NO.
Well, Ron I've asked you before under my other posting names why you
won't take the time to fully evaluate UG and you never, ever answer
the question. I've asked you on CNC Zone, in e-mail and on the e-
Mastercam forum.
> Again is it the best NO, Can it get the job doen and help companies make Money yes!!!
What is the best, Ron? You refuse to take the time to evaluate UG CAM
Express and see what it can do. My belief is most cadcam programs are
very incomplete. From all the posts I have read your belief is that
Mastercam needs a lot of work but like most e-Mastercam posters you
don't focus hard and continuously on the specific problems in
Mastercam. You hit and run. You threaten to not renew and then renew.
>When I see Mike do the 40 other Cam program
> comparisons and do it with real toolpaths that are current and not
> years old I might be impressed.
I clearly understand that you feel that Mike singles out Mastercam.
> There was something I posed to your God...
The evidence you have that I feel Mike is "my god" is what exactly,
Ron? Be specific. I clearly support Mike's right to post anywhere he
wants to. I like specific CAM comparisons. I've made it very clear I'd
like to see more of them. A very sharp Mastercam users like you could
very easily refute Mike's video with video of your own and yet you
don't. Neither did Jayson Kramer who I like but who I believe deleted
Mike's post. I really dislike this type of censorship.
>Then he truly insulted me calling me you very funny indeed because I am crazy and you just wish
> you were.
I don't think you're crazy, Ron. I often find you very helpful
although some of the help you have posted for me I'm still a little
unclear on. However, most of the help you have given me has been great
and very useful and I've often told you so just not under the name Jon
Banquer. I have also told Jayson Kramer on the phone that I find you
very helpful.
>You hate emastercam web site ok.
I hate cliques in general. I notice you try hard to be independent of
this clique and I appreciate it. After 12 years of not getting along
with In House Solutions I made the effort after getting very pissed
off at a false allegation that I use illegal software at work by Dave
Thomson to call him and he retracted what he said. Subsequent to that
Dave Thomson and I have had some very nice telephone conversations and
we seem to get along very well now. I take part of the blame for 12
years of bad feelings between us but not all the blame. I found that
in talking to Dave I liked him and he's got a comment on my blog that
I very much appreciate. Did I tell Dave Thomson I felt e-Mastercam had
some very bad moderators and that it was a clique... yes I did. Does
he know I post on e-Mastercam under another name... (which I probably
will have to change soon.) Yes he does.
> You are a dumbass and you keep showing that time and time again.
You seem to have enjoyed answering my questions on Mastercam and the
response I have given you to my questions. I've also defended you to
others on the phone who have called you a hot head, etc. I'm not going
to give any more details on this.
>The people over in the emastercam forum for the most part are good people...
No it's a clique and it's not a place where anyone is going to be able
to dispute the clique mentality which says that UG is too hard, too
slow, etc. Suggest you read what Bill has posted about how un-
objective this clique is in regards to UG.
> yet you choose to be the disrespectful person that you are insulting and degrading to
> people and wonder why nobody want to put up with that.
I choose to not take any crap from people like James Meyette, John
Paris, etc. Both at times have deserved my disrespect, insults, etc.
and both have also been very helpful to me. When they have been very
helpful I've been very clear with my thanks. Does that mean I give
someone like James Meyette a free ride when he chooses to open his big
mouth when he shouldn't or when it's clear that he should never be a
moderator... Nope. Both John Paris and James Meyette have done quite
a bit of damage to the e-Mastercam forum and not just to me. Both,
probably more so John Paris, have also done a lot of good on that
forum.
>Imagine if youjust shut up and did what everyone else does and tried to help others
> verse being the little baby that you are.
I'm not interested in doing what everyone else does. What everyone
else does didn't get me the job I have now or the relationship I have
built with my boss or my co-workers.
>Weird concept to you I know, but give it a try you might be surprised you can help people if you
> try to help them verse spending your time trying to destroy people.
Weird concept to you that someone like me isn't going to change to
conform to what you or others want me to be.
> I wish you the best in your new crusade to destroy Mastercam again.
There is no crusade to destroy Mastercam on my part. That only exists
in the minds of those who won't take the time to read and understand
what I write. Am I interested in being a Mastercam loyalist?... no I'm
not. I'm also not interested in appeasing the e-Mastercam clique
especially James Meyette or John Paris who get carried away with power
they think they have. When James Meyette has had to deal with me on
the phone / directly there has never been a problem. When James
Meyette gets up on his high horse and thinks he can dictate to me what
I'm going to say about Mastercam he's found out that I have zero
respect for him and won't tolerate his never ending bullshit. Know
this that under a difficult situation and against my financial
determent, I have sided with James Meyette and against the person who
signed my pay check at the time because the shop owner was wrong.
Would I do the same thing again... you can bet your last dollar I
would even though I know what kind of asshole James Meyette can be.
> I hope that God can find his way into your heart and let you see what
> truely matter in this world and what does not.
God already has. She said that one day Ron Branch will understand you
and the two of you may work together where Ron will willingly pass on
his knowledge. She said I can be myself and not have to kiss you ass
but just be genuine like I have been in the past in the praising you
for your help. She also said that Ron Branch might be the first Born
Again Christian she might reveal to me as not being a phony double
standard two faced asshole like James Meyette can often be. James
Meyette has got a lot of issues and has more than a few people who
work for the machine tool distributor he does who truly hate his guts.
James Meyette can also be totally unprofessional like when he got into
a massive fight at a customers shop with a lathe AE who disagreed with
James Meyette's approach or when James Meyette some how felt it was
okay to tell Jayson Kramer where I use to work.
> Respectfully as I can be...
God has said you can do much better and that she's very disappointed
that you still can't read and understand what I write both here and on
my blog and that if you don't start making more of an effort she's
going to make your boss force UG CAM on you and make Mike the only AE
you can work with.
Jon Banquer
San Diego, CA
jon_banquer
> creations dumbass, not a very Christan attitude.
Perhaps not but God has bestowed a talent for Mastercam on Ron Branch
(Ron knows Mastercam better than most and what Ron doesn't know he
makes up for in an abundance of machining talent.) What she has given
Ron is the exact opposite of what she has withheld from worthless,
lying idiots like Joe 788 who offer nothing in the way of help on
Mastercam and what little Joe 788 does offer on Mastercam is often
wrong. Ron Branch is dead nuts on most of the time when it comes to
Mastercam.
What she hasn't given Ron is the ability to not feel threatened or
take personally how someone like Michael Stevenson feels about Ron or
Mastercam. There is no reason at all why Ron should care what Michael
Stevenson thinks other than Ron has no faith that smarter people can
figure out for themselves what's true, what's not true, what's
incomplete, etc. As for those who don't have a clue, don't want a
clue, etc... he needs to stop caring what this kind of person thinks.
Ron Branch wants my respect and he now knows he has it because he's
earned my respect. No matter what he wishes to say about me, I really
don't care, Steve as Ron Branch has proven to me that he's more
objective than most CADCAM users and that he really knows a program
like Mastercam and what its many strengths and limitations are.
Joe788 will never have my respect because he's a liar and an idiot
when it comes to CADCAM. Tom Brewer has lost my respect where he once
had it for exactly the same reasons.
BTW, have you been following the stock market in the last few days?
Some idiot,who is apparently is a good machinist but an idiot and
loser in just about everything else, recently made some comments that
show what an idiot he is when it comes to understanding business and
the stock market. On Thursday and Friday the stock market reacted to
what they feel about this company, which is 180 degrees opposite of
what this idiot posted.
Jon Banquer
San Diego, CA.
jon_banquer
Almost no one would have understood your old self because it's only in
the last year of so that your ability to type and make yourself clear
has occurred. Before that I couldn't understand most of what you wrote
and I really tried.
God works in strange and mysterious ways doesn't she?
Crazym...@gmail.com
Well see small shops don't have big budgets John. They have budgets to
get the job done. Catia would my direction not UG again since I have
stated we are a Boeing shop and Boeing has this little requirement in
their MBD to use Catia. Time is money and money is time as you should
in all areas know this. If I know we barley have the budget to pay
maintenance why I want to put us further behind trying to 1) Learn a
different software, 2) Take are over 8000 programs and convert them
over to UG, 3) Put a hole in our capabilities we have control of know?
I keep machines running and keep up with the shop with what we have
and we are very competitive in the market we service. We have a 4 year
back log and it keeps growing. Mastercam does it for us sorry you find
that narrow minded, but do not see you jumping on the replace
Mastercam with UG wagon.
John after one year of Mastercam I was doing 5 axis programming, so
sorry if I feel you would have a very good grasp of all the different
toolpaths and could read on the screen it said surface rough pocket
and not see Surface High Speed Core Roughing in his One sided Video.
You say I am blinded by my Mastercam "product loyalists like you"
mentality. I renewed to save our company monney and only did up to
August of this year. After that it would have cost us almost 3 times
the money if we renewed. It is not my money, but I have to do what is
best for the strength and health of our company. In the case of Mike
he makes wild arse claims and if you notice I am not slamming UG far
from it and if I come across like I know anything about it then I will
CLEAR SAY I KNOW NOTHING ABOUT UG.
Question if you can not afford a Porsche do you keep test driving them
to see what you not can have, or do you deal with what you got and try
to get the most out of it using it the best possible way you can???
Oh and God made Man in the image of him not her so God is a Man
Genesis 1:26.
Oh and my Boss respect my decision and we would talk about it and if
we decided on a direction we would go in that direction. Good thing
about caring about your company and being willing to do extra things
the owners respects your opinion and back you 100% on those decisions.
If we decide down the road to go in a direction of a different
software then we will. The dumping of something that has run a company
for over 15 years is not done over night and not done by some slanted
lame You Tube video.
As for making a video what Mastercam can do against UG would serve
what purpose I have nothing to gain. I am pointing out that it is in
correct Mike has made several disrespectful comment about people who
use Mastercam and even tried to make comments to the point to get
people who use Mastercam fired from their jobs. He has always had an
agenda and it finally showed with this Video and his eitded comments
on the cnczone when I called him on it.
Facts to look at something come from knowing what works in each
situation. One-CNC, Smartcam, Surfcam, Gibbs, Cimatron, and all the
other software out there have people buying it. They feel it does the
best job for them. I think they are right in that regard. I do not
feel they are lesser people because they use a different software.
Your comments come across like you find people who do use Mastercam
lesser people. You do not realize this and this is a point I am trying
to make. By you promoting this video you are supporting that action.
You agree with the misrepresentation of it by putting it up here for
people to see. Again action speak louder than words and you actions
always speak something that you may not think you are doing,
Case in point if there was video of someone stealing bread from a
store and I keep putting up that video and something I think everyone
should see I am supporting what that person has done, thus saying I
agree with what they did and support their actions.
Think about the Porsche again, if you can drive the Truck to work and
have all types of attachments to helping you cut the grass, water the
lawn and feed the animals and it does all you need and that is all you
can afford. Do you get rid of it and get the Porsche??
One last thing God put me where I am God gave me all my talents and
God provides me all I need and if God puts me anywhere HE will put me
where he please not as punishment, but as HIS will not mine and not
yours!!!!
Oh and I am a hothead, I get very hot when people do not do their Job,
Lie, Cheat, Steal, and do anything else that is wrong. I will bend
over backwards to help anyone, but will not be pushed around. I got to
where I am in life through God's grace, why I do not know or even
understand, but to be meek is not me and to back down is not me. But I
am always willing to admit when I am wrong how about you give it a
try????
Crazym...@gmail.com
God is not a she God is a He so let clear that up Ok Thanks.
Typing like I always have and always been the same person not
different people.
Crazym...@gmail.com
Oh and Dave is no longer with In-House from what I understand.
Cliff
>What about a shop using Catia they are
>suppose to abondan all of the Macros, Libaries, and I-Cam for UG off
>of a Mastercam to NX video.
As UG has the option (since rev 9.0 or 9.1 IIRC) to output ASCII
CLDATA per ISO-4343 you can use any such post with it.
And ICAM had long been an option anyway, even before that.
--
Cliff
Cliff
>There was something I posed to your God, Mike and that was Catia
>requirements for shops that are MBD Boeing shops what good does UG do
>them??? Nothing not a word. What about a shop using Catia they are
>suppose to abondan all of the Macros, Libaries, and I-Cam for UG off
>of a Mastercam to NX video. Mike made a wild ares comment he could do
>in 15 minutes in Catia what would take Mastercam 40 hours in the
>CNCZONE. Again never backing that up. Then he truly insulted me
>calling me you very funny indeed because I am crazy and you just wish
>you were. You hate emastercam web site ok. What does you hating people
>have to do with CAM/CAD not a damn thing. You are a dumbass and you
>keep showing that time and time again. The people over in the
>emastercam forum for the most part are good people, yet you choose to
>be the disrespectful person that you are insulting and degrading to
>people and wonder why nobody want to put up with that. Imagine if you
>just shut up and did what everyone else does and tried to help others
>verse being the little baby that you are. Weird concept to you I know,
>but give it a try you might be surprised you can help people if you
>try to help them verse spending your time trying to destroy people.
He does not actually *know* enough about anything to actually
help anybody about anything and every time he tries to fake
it from a video, canned demo or stolen post he gets it badly
wrong (which is a danger to any newbies).
He's not even a user. He's a BS artist. And it shows.
No user of any program with even a few weeks of
simple use would pull some of the stupid blunders he has.
Usually he has no clue with the buzzwords actually mean, anyway.
But they sound pretty & impressive, just like a dropped name,
right? But when you check with the dropped name you find out
he lied anyway.
"Please let me clarify that Jon is not affiliated with HSMWorks ApS in any way
and that we cannot control what people are writing on the web."
"Anybody can get evaluation licenses of HSMWorks and test it themselves."
"I hope this clarifies any doubt."
--
Cliff
Cliff
wrote:
>Perhaps not but God has bestowed a talent for Mastercam on Ron Branch
>(Ron knows Mastercam better than most and what Ron doesn't know he
>makes up for in an abundance of machining talent.) What she has given
>Ron is the exact opposite of what she has withheld from worthless,
>lying idiots
Old jewish habits die hard, eh?
Always blaming the "gods" for your own stupidity, lies, etc.
--
Cliff
Cliff
wrote:
>What she hasn't given Ron is the ability to not feel threatened or
>take personally how someone like Michael Stevenson feels about Ron or
>Mastercam. There is no reason at all why Ron should care what Michael
>Stevenson thinks other than Ron has no faith that smarter people can
>figure out for themselves what's true,
Using you as a prime example he's right again. Oops ... you
said "smarter".
> what's not true, what's
>incomplete, etc. As for those who don't have a clue,
Need we mention your name again?
>don't want a
>clue, etc... he needs to stop caring what this kind of person thinks.
You don't think. A pet rock is better at it by far.
--
Cliff
Cliff
wrote:
>Then again, as my blog makes very clear, I've
>only been using Mastercam for a little over a year.
Manage to drill those holes yet?
<Snicker>
--
Cliff
Cliff
wrote:
>I clearly support Mike's right to post anywhere he
>wants to.
Such as on your remaining "blogs"?
"Support" how, exactly?
Who cares?
--
Cliff
Cliff
wrote:
>>Then he truly insulted me calling me you very funny indeed because I am crazy and you just wish
>> you were.
>
>I don't think you're crazy, Ron. I often find you very helpful
>although some of the help you have posted for me I'm still a little
>unclear on.
Like how to drill a hole?
--
Cliff
Cliff
>John after one year of Mastercam I was doing 5 axis programming,
Just simple 2 1/2 axes confuses jb.
More clues that he's not an actual user & never has been.
Of anything.
--
Cliff
jon_banquer
to get the job done."
If you did more reading and less lecturing you would not make comments
like these, Ron. I've spent almost all my time working for small job
shops, many of whom have been severely handicapped by not having the
proper equipment, money, etc."
"If I know we barley have the budget to pay maintenance why I want to
put us further behind trying to 1) Learn a
different software, 2) Take are over 8000 programs and convert them
over to UG, 3) Put a hole in our capabilities we have control of
know?" I keep machines running and keep up with the shop with what we
have and we are very competitive in the market we service. We have a 4
year back log and it keeps growing. Mastercam does it for us sorry you
find that narrow minded, but do not see you jumping on the replace
Mastercam with UG wagon."
You have made it very clear on the e-Mastercam clique that you have a
real problem with Mastercam's lack of MMT support and that this hurts
you. Do I need to go find your posts and copy and paste them here?
What law says you have to dump Mastercam to add a seat of UG CAM
Express to get the support your shop needs for MMT?
"John after one year of Mastercam I was doing 5 axis programming, so
sorry if I feel you would have a very good grasp of all the different
toolpaths"
Well you still have an attention to detail problem, Ron and this
business is all about attention to detail. My name is Jon not John.
You can't see past your anger and hate for me to spell my name right.
Jon is short for Jonathan. You can call me asshole, dumb, shithead or
whatever you like as long as you wish to continue to provide the kind
of help you have provided me in the past Mastercam wise. I have a
whole new set of Mastercam questions by the way. Most arise from
things I'm doing at work that I wonder if I can do better. Please let
me know when your god wishes us to move on to what I consider more
productive things to discuss. This productivity seems to happen best
when I'm not posting in my name. I noticed that you did not
acknowledge that I said thank you for the help in the past that you
have given me. Is there a reason for that? Is that hard for you to
accept a compliment from me?
"You say I am blinded by my Mastercam "product loyalists like you"
mentality. I renewed to save our company monney and only did up to
August of this year. After that it would have cost us almost 3 time
the money if we renewed. It is not my money, but I have to do what is
best for the strength and health of our company."
You forgot to mention that your other seat of Mastercam goes unused
and that despite trying you were not able to hire another programmer.
Several people pointed out that where you work is very expensive to
live and the salary your company wanted to pay didn't seem fair to
them.
"In the case of Mike he makes wild arse claims and if you notice I am
not slamming UG far from it and if I come across like I know anything
about it then I will CLEAR SAY I KNOW NOTHING ABOUT UG."
If you don't like Michael Stevenson's claims then I suggest you make a
video showing how Mastercam can easily do what he shows UG NX doing in
that video. I've said this before.
"Question if you can not afford a Porsche do you keep test driving
them to see what you not can have, or do you deal with what you got
and try to get the most out of it using it the best possible way you
can???"
In my case I started with an old Porsche 911 and slowly acquired the
parts, time and money to turn it into a 935. I no longer have that car
but I did learn quite a bit from this project... things like if you
want it done right you have to do it yourself and if you can't do it
yourself you have to learn how to do it yourself.
"Oh and God made Man in the image of him not her so God is a Man
Genesis 1:26."
My God apparently looks different than your God.
"As for making a video what Mastercam can do against UG would serve
what purpose I have nothing to gain. I am pointing out that it is in
correct Mike has made several disrespectful comment about people who
use Mastercam and even tried to make comments to the point to get
people who use Mastercam fired from their jobs. He has always had an
agenda and it finally showed with this Video and his eitded comments
on the cnczone when I called him on it."
Everyone has an agenda. Some are more forth coming about it than
others. You act like you are the only one that Michael Stevenson has
rubbed the wrong way. Michael Stevenson has often made comments to me
in e-mail or posted that you would view as disrespectful. Unlike you I
don't let it bother me. I see it as a good thing that he wants to talk
about UG NX and try and explain / show what it can do and I don't
really care how he feels about me.
"Your comments come across like you find people who do use Mastercam
lesser people."
I don't think that many Mastercam users take the time to see what UG
CAM Express can do even though it costs about the same. UGS was never
good at marketing to smaller shops. Mastercam is very good at it.
Whether Siemens can change this is still not clear at this point.
"You do not realize this and this is a point I am trying to make."
I realize it. I don't have a lot of respect for many people who chose
Mastercam and are blind product loyalists. I've clearly said I'm not a
product loyalist.
"By you promoting this video you are supporting that action. You agree
with the misrepresentation of it by putting it up here for people to
see. Again action speak louder than words and you actions always speak
something that you may not think you are doing,"
I've been crystal clear from the get go. I support Michael Stevenson's
right to make this kind of video and I'd like to see much more of this
kind of CAM comparison video. I've said as much for many years in this
newsgroup. If you think Mastercam is getting a bad rap in this video
make one of your own and I'm happy to support it and list that video
with the exact same vigor as I do Michael Stevenson's video. See my
blog for Mastercam vidoes I support from people who have often tried
to harm me and don't always have my best interests in mind. If their
videos are quality and have helped me or can help others that's what I
really care about.
"One last thing God put me where I am God gave me all my talents and
God provides me all I need and if God puts me anywhere HE will put me
where he please not as punishment, but as HIS will not mine and not
yours!!!!"
My God told me that she put you here to teach me more about Mastercam
because she knows that I know you have a lot to offer me. She has
proved this to me in the past. She wants you to see this more clearly
but says I need to be patient with you. I'm trying.
"But I am always willing to admit when I am wrong how about you give
it a try????"
I wish I were wrong more often. You learn more when you're wrong.
Unfortunately I'm not wrong enough.
My god tells me she will work harder showing you that you are and have
been wrong about me. I hope she's right. Seems like she's got a big
job ahead of her.
jon_banquer
That would be very bad news for me.
jon_banquer
My God is not your God.
> Typing like I always have and always been the same person not
> different people.
Go back two years and read your posts on e-Mastercam and compare them
to what you type now. Back then I couldn't understand most of what you
wrote.
Crazym...@gmail.com
Jon did you let me know that so you could be thanked?? Do what you
must in this world and if you feel being dishonest is your way to get
help so be it. You are never this humble and it would go along way
with a lot of people if you were. As far as MMT goes maybe I know some
things you don't and will leave it at that. Jon I help everyone is
willing to receive my help. I do not have all the answers and never
will have all the answers. I also learned long ago when someone is
buttering you up watch for the baster. You have your opinions about me
and you are entitled to them. As I have my opinions about you and I am
entitled to them. If you did what you did then good for you. I find it
wise to be wise and take anything you say with caution. If I have
helped you then for that I am happy. I wish you would quit lumping
everyone on emastercam as a clique because there are over 18,000
people there and the little bit of people you are talking about does
not make up the majoirty and that is a big reason why I am over so
maybe again you will see what you do not and that is the reality of
the little group does not make the majority. You have talked about 3
people out of 18,000 how is all of emastercam a clique with those
odds????
My agenda is real simple one. To help people and grow the industry.
Anyone hurting the industry is hurting American jobs. It only take a
few small things to change something and if people are being lead down
the wrong path and no one tells them to stop there is a dead mans drop
then everyone might keep falling off the edge.
>You forgot to mention that your other seat of Mastercam goes unused
>and that despite trying you were not able to hire another programmer.
>Several people pointed out that where you work is very expensive to
>live and the salary your company wanted to pay didn't seem fair to
>them.
Do you think if I had the last call on this the seat would not already
be filled???? I also did not mention we have a Seat of Catia Express,
Vericut, VectraDrive post for our CMM, Point Compare, Virtual Dims,
Job Boss and mentioned that is important for what reason?? Oh and
other seat is a stripped down seat not a full seat so it is not the
same cost of UG/NX6 Express if that is where you are trying to go with
that. At the time we got the other seat we had 2 programmers so it
would make sense to have 2 seats of the software used for many years
at the shop I work.
>I don't think that many Mastercam users take the time to see what UG
CAM Express
I think this would apply to most people using any Cam program not just
Mastercam users. Also why would this not apply to all the other
software's out there to review and look at not just the new Buzz thing
UG/NX6. I mean why not just do this for 2 months and not get a thing
done in your shop so you can say you demoed them all to only have to
start over again in 6 month because everyone has something even newer
out. You have to at some point draw a line in the sand do your job you
are hired to do and get it done period.
MMT and Mastercam are very lacking and if you feel the need to post up
here what is there that is your choice, but MMT and Mastercam right
now suck. I however get it done and do it well some days and other
days I am ready to throw the computer out the windows. However I try
not have machines sit waiting on a program and that is important, have
they yes, but that may have been 1 or 2 days in last year and being
one person I do the best I can and it keep my owner happy so what you
think is really not important with that respect.
Oh Mozilla came out with spell checker about that time so that really
helped my typing, been saved since I was 11 years old Jon. Oh and I am
bad example of a Christian on most days, but I always to pray to God
and ask Him for forgiveness of my sins and pray for others that need
it.
jon_banquer
Well Ron when someone credits you and thanks you, I think it's the
polite thing to acknowledge it. I've tried to make it very clear to
you that I have learned a lot from your posts to my questions and that
you frequently have answered my questions. Others frequently miss what
I'm getting at where as you almost always know where I'm coming from.
I have always thanked you for your help...even if it didn't work.
"Do what you must in this world and if you feel being dishonest is
your way to get help so be it."
I'm not dishonest because I'm forced to post under other names. In
what way is this dishonest? Please be specific. Are you happy on how
you have been treated on CNC Advertising Zone.... you have clearly
posted you weren't happy. Do I think you have a right to be unhappy
and that all of it isn't you just being a hot head... you bet I do.
The owner of CNC Advertising Zone is a complete asshole and so are
some of the moderators.
"You are never this humble and it would go along way with a lot of
people if you were."
Let me be as clear as I possibly can. I don't respect a lot of people
and I don't care what most people think about me. I respect you
because of what you have given and because I have determined that you
know machining and Mastercam at a level most people don't. I'm not
interested in getting along with or appeasing people who insist I have
to act a certain way so they can feel comfortable. Most of these
people are not what I consider to be very proficient with Mastercam
and many of them have many more years of using Mastercam than I do.
"As far as MMT goes maybe I know some things you don't and will leave
it at that."
All I can go by is your post of about a month ago in the e-Mastercam
forum where you made it very clear you were unhappy with the lack of
progress on lathe. You have said the same kind of thing on CNC
Advertising Zone.
"Jon I help everyone is willing to receive my help."
Know this. I'm very, very picky about those I'm interested in learning
from or accepting help from. I don't require those who wish to help me
to kiss my ass, agree with me or understand where I'm coming from. I
do require them to accept that I'm not going to be molded to their way
of thinking in all aspects and that I'm my own person.
"I do not have all the answers and never will have all the answers."
I don't expect you to. I've made it very clear both here and on CNC
Advertising Zone and in the past on Practically Useless Machinist that
one of the things I really like about Mike Mattera's videos is that he
makes mistakes and doesn't edit them out of the video. He admits the
mistakes in his videos. I find this to be very much like how I learn
from others in the real world. I also have noted your unhappiness with
how your posts are sometimes censored or deleted on CNC Advertising
Zone. As time goes on more and more people are going to get disgusted
with this practice and I'm sure better moderated forums will spring
up.
"You have your opinions about me and you are entitled to them. As I
have my opinions about you and I am
entitled to them."
Well keep that in mind when I claim my God is female. Do I really
believe this... no but I'm trying to make a point. I suspect you
already may have picked up on this.
"I find it wise to be wise and take anything you say with caution."
Fair enough. Trust has to be earned in my opinion.
"If I have helped you then for that I am happy."
Your help along with Jayson Kramer's and Mike Mattera's CD's has
helped me to land the job I have now. I work for a very large company
that has a small machine shop and there is a very unique chemistry in
this shop between the person who is my boss, the lead machinist and
myself. We all help each other and share whatever we know.
"I wish you would quit lumping everyone on emastercam as a clique"
These clique idiots hold others back from being themselves and don't
allow others to say something like.. UG CAM Express is priced very
close to Mastercam, is more robust, has a better Operations Manager,
has features that Mastercam's doesn't. UG CAM isn't really that much
harder than Mastercam, Graphical toolpath editing is needed because a
CAM system will never be able to anticipate exactly what you want to
do and that's why better CAM systems have it. SmartCAM still has
advantages over Mastercam, etc.
"You have talked about 3 people out of 18,000 how is all of emastercam
a clique with those.."
Because a small number of clique idiots like John Paris, James
Meyette, g-code, Matt Finley (Rekd), hardmill, kunfuzed, John 316,
PBMW (Drag racer 1951), Robert Brunson, Rickster and other assorted
assholes dominate that forum and control the tone.
"Oh and I am bad example of a Christian on most days, but I always to
pray to God and ask Him for forgiveness of my sins and pray for others
that need it."
I have not had much luck with Born Again Christian's but I haven't
given up trying to find one who's not a total two-faced phony.
Let me know if, when and where you feel comfortable answering my new
Mastercam questions. Keep in mind I could ask others that have
expressed and shown a desire to answer my questions on Mastercam if
you don't wish to answer them.
Based on your many past answers to my questions under other names it's
your ideas and approach that I'm really most interested in hearing not
others. I want better control over my toolpaths and this is where the
majority of my new questions lie at the moment. I hate moving geometry
to give me the toolpath control I want and I hate redoing toolpath. I
do both now and think there is probably a better approach.
Jon Banquer
San Diego, CA
http://jonbanquer.wordpress.com/
Joe788
HAHAHAHAHAHA!!!
"I'm not dishonest because I'm forced to post under other names." -
Jon Banquer
Holy shit, lunatic. You really topped yourself with that one!
Cliff
wrote:
>small job shops, many of whom have been severely handicapped by
.... banquer.
--
Cliff
Cliff
wrote:
>You have made it very clear on the e-Mastercam clique that you have a
>real problem with Mastercam's lack of MMT support and that this hurts
>you. Do I need to go find your posts and copy and paste them here?
>What law says you have to dump Mastercam to add a seat of UG CAM
>Express to get the support your shop needs for MMT?
GREAT IDEA !!!
Switch to "UG CAM Express" to use "Mastercam MultiTasking" !!!
Clearly (Buzz)Word salad: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Word_salad
struck again as he uses neither UG nor the latest MasterCAM
and clearly knows little of either.
--
Cliff
Cliff
wrote:
>Well you still have an attention to detail problem, Ron and this
>business is all about attention to detail.
Such as knowing what "MMT" is or how to use MasterCAM
to drill a hole or ever getting anything right?
--
Cliff
Cliff
wrote:
>Well you still have an attention to detail problem, Ron and this
>business is all about attention to detail. My name is Jon not John.
>You can't see past your anger and hate for me to spell my name right.
>Jon is short for Jonathan.
<Snicker>
So that's YOUR business?
--
Cliff
Cliff
wrote:
>"In the case of Mike he makes wild arse claims and if you notice I am
>not slamming UG far from it and if I come across like I know anything
>about it then I will CLEAR SAY I KNOW NOTHING ABOUT UG."
>
>If you don't like Michael Stevenson's claims then I suggest you make a
>video showing how Mastercam can easily do what he shows UG NX doing in
>that video. I've said this before.
LOL .... but the videos did not at all show what YOU claimed !!!
"Well you still have an attention to detail problem"
--
Cliff
Cliff
wrote:
>Everyone has an agenda.
http://www.perrspectives.com/images/rove_whack_mole_070705.jpg