Re: Help with a 1960's era drawing call out...
Cliff
>
>I've been working on drawings since the mid 1980's and I haven't come
>across this one yet...
>
>Anyone ever see a call out on a print like the one below? This print is
>from the '60 and it points to a few surfaces and a bore. I'm thinking
>it might be some kind of burr call-out? The mating part calls out the
>same symbol on the mating shaft and face. All the same surfaces
>indicated by this also have the normal 32 surface finish call out, so
>it's not that.
>
>
> ___B___ ___15___
> / \/\/
> /
>| /
>|/__
>
>I tried searching the web, but came up short...any ideas?
>
>Thanks
>
>IYM
Anybody?
--
Cliff
IYM
I have a call in to the customer...It may be some internal spec used by
them back then...
I'll post when I find out...5 engineers here never saw it before and the
VP of Quality Control who was working here before I was born, and that's
sharper than most 25 year olds has never seen it either. I feel beter
knowing at least it's not me! lol
Janes
"IYM" <"S U N risr"@optonline.net> wrote in message news:hfm4st$cbu$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
Kirk Gordon
I don't recognize it the way it shows up in text-only; but given the
age and content, I'd guess it's calling for a .015 corner or corner break.
KG
Janes
"IYM" <"S U N risr"@optonline.net> wrote in message news:hfm4st$cbu$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
Cliff
>I think that's a bingo! Old print - R looks like a B... makes sense.
Cliff
>Hmm... there's the old finish standard ASME B15. Though don't think
>they'd put that there.
IYM
No - Definatly a B...Print is clear, just old. Sorry about the text
look of it, but I tried (lol) the bottom is supposed to be an arrow
head, not a corner it's pointing to. It's supposed to be one straight
unbroken line with a kind of "w" in the line and it actually points to 3
surfaces and a bore. Interestingly, the mating part has the same symbol
on the mating surfaces and features. Customer is still looking into it
and will post the reply when I find out.
Thanks.
Gerald Abrahamson
risr"@optonline.net> wrote:
If these mating parts/surfaces are hand-fitted for final
assembly, then it is probably a "get it this close" to the
final dimension--and that leaves enough material to be
ground off a round surface or manually honed out of the hole
diameter to fit. Think crankshaft and bearing.... Turn the
OD of the crank surfaces to within (say) .015" and then use
the crank grinder to get to the final dimension. Then
machine the bearings (or whatever) to 015" undersize--and
then manually bore and fit the final crank dimensions once
it is in hand. This would be especially true if the
centerlines of those surfaces were required to be straight
line.
Cliff
Probably "Break edges" .015 (chamfer).
Anything in the change or general notes?
--
Cliff
IYM
Just FYI - I got confirmation back from the customer today....They had
been looking at it, checking archives ect. and finally came up with....
<drum-roll>
"We have no freakin' idea what the hell that is!" LOL and the solution
was to give us a waiver saying to ignore that callout...
There is always a first for everything.... lol
Winston
(...)
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> ___B___ ___15___
>>>>>>>> / \/\/
>>>>>>>> /
>>>>>>>> | /
>>>>>>>> |/__
>>>>>>>>
(...)
> Just FYI - I got confirmation back from the customer today....They had
> been looking at it, checking archives ect. and finally came up with....
>
> <drum-roll>
>
> "We have no freakin' idea what the hell that is!" LOL and the solution
> was to give us a waiver saying to ignore that callout...
>
> There is always a first for everything.... lol
You passed the test!
That looks like a 'Van Halen Callout'
http://www.snopes.com/music/artists/vanhalen.asp
"By far the most notorious of these whimsical requests is the legend that
Van Halen's standard concert contract called for them to be provided with
a bowl of M&Ms backstage, but with provision that all the brown candies
must be removed. The presence of even a single brown M&M in that bowl,
rumor had it, was sufficient legal cause for Van Halen to peremptorily
cancel a scheduled appearance without advance notice (and usually an
excuse for them to go on a destructive rampage as well).
The legendary "no brown M&Ms" contract clause was indeed real, but the
purported motivation for it was not. The M&Ms provision was included in
Van Halen's contracts not as an act of caprice, but because it served a
practical purpose: to provide an easy way of determining whether the
technical specifications of the contract had been thoroughly read
(and complied with)."
--Winston
--
Congratulations Robert Piccinini and Steven A. Burd, WalMart Publicists of the Year!
John R. Carroll
I would have thought it was a weld joint specification and looked for
something there.
What this might be is a call out for a butt welded joint.
--
John R. Carroll
Cliff
wrote:
>I would have thought it was a weld joint specification and looked for
>something there.
>What this might be is a call out for a butt welded joint.
That should be on an assembly, not detail, drawing I'd think.
Plus I checked some weld symbod charts (but no doubt missed many).
--
Cliff
IYM
Just following up - Our customer finally found an ancient spec that
contained the information! It was their own internal spec regarding
deburring. They have three grades (A, B, & C,) from best to worse
(won't bore you with acceptance criteria for each) and the number
designates the magnification level it has to be inspected under. So my
drawing designated a "B" and had the # 15...
Thought I'd let everyone know in case they were interested....
Thanks....
IYM
Cliff
Very interesting.
Thanks for the update.
Who would ever have guessed?
And how did they lose/forget their own internal spec?
BTW, All such prints should refer to the internal spec & it's
revision level and be included with all requests to outside vendors.
"Shop Standard"
Clearly time for a "Redrawn W/O Change" that includes the
info in an explicit manner but drops the spec & odd notation.
Is that "W/O Change"?
--
Cliff
Cliff
Very interesting.
IYM
As I mentioned, our customer acquired a company who had acquired this
company, so things got lost in the shuffle I'm guessing. Also, their
vendor had been making the part for them since the original company so
that vendor I'm guessing new what it was, however they have gone under
in this economy, which is how we ended up with the job...Just a
cluster-@#!$, but that's why they have me working here - to sort this
crap out, right? :)
>
> BTW, All such prints should refer to the internal spec & it's
> revision level and be included with all requests to outside vendors.
> "Shop Standard"
>
> Clearly time for a "Redrawn W/O Change" that includes the
> info in an explicit manner but drops the spec & odd notation.
>
> Is that "W/O Change"?
As it turns out, there is no need for a rev at this time. The customer
gave an exception to that requirement, meaning it will not be an
acceptable/rejectable criteria....AND (before you go nuts with that
response - lol) more importantly, our company inspection standards
already exceed the requirement on the print, so we check what the
drawing calls for (actually better) as part of our procedure on the
entire part, not just the surfaces specified on the print...
Cliff
>> Clearly time for a "Redrawn W/O Change" that includes the
>> info in an explicit manner but drops the spec & odd notation.
>>
>> Is that "W/O Change"?
>
>As it turns out, there is no need for a rev at this time. The customer
>gave an exception to that requirement, meaning it will not be an
>acceptable/rejectable criteria....AND (before you go nuts with that
>response - lol) more importantly, our company inspection standards
>already exceed the requirement on the print, so we check what the
>drawing calls for (actually better) as part of our procedure on the
>entire part, not just the surfaces specified on the print...
"Redrawn W/O Change" is "WithOut" change (to the product
design). Just a new drawing of the same design without change
notes & etc.
Should triigger an archival of the old drawing.
Detail balloons to a note or an explicit UOS callout
might suffice to replace the odd symbols.
--
Cliff