Microstation SUCKS
Bewildered
<<My only gripe is the lack of organization of the
contract administration. I would like to know more about
AutoCAD/AutoDesk in
this respect. Any thoughts?>>
1. Bentley USTN V8 supports ACAD users far better than AutoDesk does,
with support for .dwg files all the way back to ACAD R2.6, I'm told-
something ACAD won't do! Can some ACAD user tell me if they can
'round-trip' a file from R2000 or 2002 to R13 (or the other way)
please?
2. How about .dgn files- can ACAD use these?
3. Does ADESK support R14 or earlier?
In addition to all the well-informed comments re. general
functionality, we should be clear about what we are comparing; R2002
vs V8? Because there's a VAST difference between V8 & previous
versions of USTN.
V8 walks all over ACAD when inter-operability is considered; this
alone makes it far better value (but they are both over-priced even
so!)
Another factor that's not been mentioned is use of Models in USTN,
which as it becomes better understood has the potential to
revolutionise the way mainstream CAD is used.
As to the V8 "Review" by Cadence; rarely has such a level of ignorance
been paraded as expert opinion- but then isn't it pro- ADESK
publication?
JMO
GD
Mark Gonzales
>
> <<My only gripe is the lack of organization of the
> contract administration. I would like to know more about
> AutoCAD/AutoDesk in
> this respect. Any thoughts?>>
>
> 1. Bentley USTN V8 supports ACAD users far better than AutoDesk does,
Not according to the Viecon DWG related NGs - there are still issues. But
don't worry, when MicroStation finally gets it just right, Autodesk will
simply change the format so you get to start all over again. ;-)
> with support for .dwg files all the way back to ACAD R2.6, I'm told-
> something ACAD won't do!
And so does the freebie IntelliCAD. Don't expect many people to still be
using R2.6, though.
> Can some ACAD user tell me if they can
> 'round-trip' a file from R2000 or 2002 to R13 (or the other way)
> please?
Yes.
> 2. How about .dgn files- can ACAD use these?
Who cares? When you're decisively #1, you don't have to support the other
guy.
> 3. Does ADESK support R14 or earlier?
What do you mean by "support"? 2002 reads/writes R14. Is this what you mean?
> In addition to all the well-informed comments re. general
> functionality, we should be clear about what we are comparing; R2002
> vs V8? Because there's a VAST difference between V8 & previous
> versions of USTN.
> V8 walks all over ACAD when inter-operability is considered; this
> alone makes it far better value (but they are both over-priced even
> so!)
Exactly! That's why, as a former Intergraph/MicroStation user (who still
thinks MS is a better product in most cases), I switched to AutoCAD LT (7
years ago). Too bad Bentley didn't have a $500.00 version of MS.
> Another factor that's not been mentioned is use of Models in USTN,
> which as it becomes better understood has the potential to
> revolutionise the way mainstream CAD is used.
Ok. I'm only 2D so I'll take your word for it.
>
> As to the V8 "Review" by Cadence; rarely has such a level of ignorance
> been paraded as expert opinion- but then isn't it pro- ADESK
> publication?
Yes.
--
Mark
>
> JMO
> GD
Bill Dickens
Hey Chuck
> Have you clicked in all of the status bar areas?
Yup. Once was enough. The bar is ugly and wastes space.
Infoglid handles the message field and places it heads-up.
If Chris updates Infoglid we will be able to have the other prompts up
near our work, where they belong, with differing background colors.
> I use the snaps and locks popup menu many times in an hour and now,
> you can open the level manager, set your active fence mode and pick a
> Select Element tool.Not to mention the prompting that occurs at the
> status bar. I can't imagine wanting to turn it off. But that's what
> user preferences are for.
The fencing, selecting, snapping and undoing tools surround my placing
tools so that I have to only move the cursor two icon widths at the
most. I despise flailing all over the space... very bad ergonomics and
just downright stooopid.
> And as for customizing the interface - MicroStation is so much more
> flexible and ready to perform for multiple varying client standards.
> The only area I give a slight edge to AutoCAD is the ASCII based menu
> customizations. I'm not fond of the "black box" approach that
> MicroStation uses, with m01, r01, ... but I manage.
Menus are a waste too except for long lists of taxonomically similar
items.
That is why I want to turn the menu's off... statically wasting space
as well.
They should pop down only when needed.
MVB will blow everything away. We have not yet seen the magnificent
possibilities.
It must be said that Chris Zakrewski it totally altering the concepts
of the interface.
I'd like to revisit the initial premise.... Yup, that was my initial
reaction. Having been a Beta Site for DynaCADD I couldn't believe how
difficult it was to do just simple things. I suggested that the snap
choices readout as you fly over the keypoints in that program. When
Rob Brown saw it in action, he really wanted to do it for uStn but he
had chosen to leave. Chris pointed out that Rob helped the Russian
guys who developed Qsnap.
That is why, when I discovered that it was easy to modify the
interface, that I created the All Options On Display, 1-Click
interface.
Bill
Chris Zakrewsky
> Chris pointed out that Rob helped the Russian guys who developed Qsnap.
Are you sure it was me? I have no recollection.... but my memory fades
away so quickly these days ;-)
> It must be said that Chris Zakrewski it totally altering the concepts
> of the interface.
It is fair to say that InfoSnap is in Beta now, and it will remain as such until
all important GUI issues are resolved. 'In-place-menus' is one of them.
But in all fairness it is a free-time-project for me, free of charge for all of you,
so some degree of patience is a must.
Best!
/Chris Z.
"Bill Dickens" <lewism...@comcast.net> wrote in message news:c9274f87.02081...@posting.google.com...
Scott Alan
I might say the same thing in an AutoCad NG if I were forced to use
AutoCad for a project. It's all what we're familiar with. I hear you
and sympathize, but I disagree with the ascertion that any proggie is
better. It's all very subjective.
Scott
Inga M.
Have you considered getting educated in MicroStation to transfer your skill
set? Take a look at Bentley's "Moving to MicroStation" which is
specifically designed for the AutoCAD user wanting to migrate their skill
set to our world. You can get further details online at:
http://bentleyinstitute.bentley.com/fs/courses/move.htm
As for making it easier to learn MicroStation, perhaps these tips will help!
The most difficult thing for AutoCAD users to learn in MicroStation is the
picking and clicking....but once you have that down pat, the rest is a
breeze!
The left mouse button is "Yes" and it's real name is "Data Point". You use
it for input functions such as:
- Selecting (tools, entitites)
- Placing datapoints
- Picking
- Accepting
The right mouse button is "No" and it's real name is "Reset". You use it to:
- Cancel a command
- Reject
- Sort of the same as the AutoCAD's "Escape" function.
The middle mouse button is "Maybe" and it's real name is "Tentative". You
use it to:
- "Snap" to entities/elements
- Issue a datapoint that needs to be accepted.
- It's basically the same as AutoCAD's Snap function.
Remember, "MicroStation is as EASY as 1,2,3":
1 - Pick the tool
2 - Adjust the settings
3 - Follow the prompts.
And of course don't forget "The Rules":
1 - Always follow the prompts
2 - Never draw the same thing twice
3 - If all else fails, read the prompts
4 - Reset to Complete (press the Reset *after* every tool)
Hope this helps!
Regards,
Inga
www.askinga.com
Jack
The application engineer from the first cad system I was on (
Computervision) was always trying to get us to 'read the prompt'.
Never realy took though - I still forget.
Jack
Bill Dickens
> all important GUI issues are resolved. 'In-place-menus' is one of them.
> But in all fairness it is a free-time-project for me, free of charge for all of you,
> so some degree of patience is a must.
>
> Best!
> /Chris Z.
Oh-O We got something new to deal with... "In-place-menus"... what
perchance this be?
Hopefully not in conflict with "In-place-correlate icons".
:-) Bill
Ed Payne
I want to throw my two cents in. I have used Autocad up through 2000. I
took a job in December with a company that uses Microstation. In the time I
have used it I have gotten proficient, but it still reminds me of running
Autocad with a digitizer. Maybe that is why so many people use dual
monitors. Another thing I find curious is that all of the reviews I have
seen on V*, the biggie is how compatible it is with Autocad. Must be
something out there that people like.... As for me doing mechanical
design, Autocad is my choice. The units in Microstation are confusing and
even our experts cannot answer some of my questions. For civil work, I am
sure Microstation is great, but I don't see Bentley supporting the
mechanical market the way Autodesk has. In the long run, I think I am going
to learn Solidworks.
See ya!
"Scott Alan" <sco...@excite.com> wrote in message
news:f41476ed.02081...@posting.google.com...
Wayne
I too have extensive use in AutoCAD and MicroStation. Up to V8 (or V*,
Scott) my preference was with AutoCAD mainly for two reasons. One is the
limits of the working plane/cube. I realize that the original format has
been perpetuated from the old days when 2^32 was a lot, but this placed a
limit on your coordinate values, particularly state plane coordinate values
which would often run of the edge of MicroStation's world. My other concern
about MicroStation prior to V8 is the way that reference files are
attached-at the global origin regardless of it's value. You may have a GO of
0,0 in one file, reference another file with a GO of 6,000,000 2,000,000 and
the program will put the files together at the global origin and not at the
real world coordinate. Now in V8, you have the option to use the world
coordinate or the GO as the reference point of the attachment. This leads to
question. MicroStation was obviously written for a wide audience. How many
of those deal with surveying/civil curriculums? My guess is a lower
percentage.
Wayne
"Ed Payne" <hpayne!@houston.rr.com> wrote in message
news:wEj69.22259$eK6.1...@twister.austin.rr.com...
Steve
Western Australia for Land Information - especially within the state Lands
and Mines departments. And Western Australia is the biggest state in the
world that's not a country !
"Wayne" <nospam...@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
news:uok69.5723$Iz6.20...@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com...
Willow
--
Wanda
aka Willow
The missing and definitely not to be taken seriously under any circumstances
garden gnome
http://www.2000cn.com.au/~willow
~~faeries are able to fly because they take themselves lightly~
Steve <stevem...@primus.com.au> wrote in message
news:3d5a4...@news.iprimus.com.au...
Žobert
and a lot of local councils..as well..
additionally a lot of larger firms and national firms are Microstation
based..
one or two in NSW and QLD exclusively use Triforma for all their design
work.
:-)
--
Regards
Žobert
@ Home = MS8.00.04.00 - XP Home - P4 1.7 - GeF2 nVidia - 512SDRam
--
It's no secret that a client, can sometimes be a pest
It's no secret that a deadline, bites the nails of success
"Steve" <stevem...@primus.com.au> wrote in message
news:3d5a4...@news.iprimus.com.au...
: Just out of interest MicroStation seems to be almost exclusively used in
: > >
: > >
: >
: >
:
:
Scott Alan
> I want to throw my two cents in. I have used Autocad up through 2000. I
> took a job in December with a company that uses Microstation. In the time I
> have used it I have gotten proficient, but it still reminds me of running
> Autocad with a digitizer. Maybe that is why so many people use dual
> monitors.
I use duals so I can throw all the dialogs and tool boxes onto one
screen without covering any views. Anyone who has gone to 2 screens
will find it hard to go back :->
> Another thing I find curious is that all of the reviews I have
> seen on V*, the biggie is how compatible it is with Autocad. Must be
> something out there that people like....
We longtime Ustn users don't care about Acad compatibility. That's
just a ploy by Bentley to grab more marketshare and satisfy the needs
of mixed shops.
Sometimes I deal with outside sources who try to give me DWG files,
but even if I wanted to open the things, a lot use strange third-party
design software and weird plotting pentables, so the file in effect
can't be properly opened outside of their 'closed' environment. I just
ask for plotfiles so I can properly print. V8 DWG compatibility won't
help me when I don't have the same pentable and/or third-party
add-ons.
> As for me doing mechanical
> design, Autocad is my choice.
> For civil work, I am
> sure Microstation is great, but I don't see Bentley supporting the
> mechanical market the way Autodesk has. In the long run, I think I am going
> to learn Solidworks.
As well it should. Bentley seems to be abandoning the Mech market.
Their arrogant corporate attitude is disturbing, but from what I hear,
AutoDesk isn't much better. It could be worse -- MicroSquish could buy
out Bentley and really mess it up.
DougW
type of discussion. Ahhh what the hell.
To borrow a phrase, "I don't want to get off
on a rant here, but..." I understand Kelly's frustration. I have been
training AutoCAD people in MicroStation for the past 12 years. So
long now that I don't even get frustated any more with the ridiculous
ACAD based assumptions they make. Recent example:
Student: I think the program is hung up!
Me: Why?
Student: I can't cancel the 'Line' command.
Me: Why would you want to?
Student: 'Cause I want to start another command.
Me: So start another command.
Student: But I'm still in 'Line'!
Me: Most MicroStation commands remain active till you choose another.
Student: Well that sucks!
Me: ........Right.....
Biggest MicroStation complaints expressed by new users (my response in
brackets):
1 "It has dialogs all over the screen you have to move or kill..."
(I do neither, I toggle the display of any number of them
on/off with one click)[dmsg sinkall tog]
2 "It has toolboxes all over the screen you have to move or kill..."
(I do neither, I have a popup menu on my mouse thumb button
that disappears after I click the tool)
3 "It has no text based menu - command aliasing..."
(I have 200 2-character aliases programmed in accudraw - none
requiring an enter key)
4 "Window commands suck..."
(Not as flashy as realtime pan/zoom but just as quick and
effective)
5 "I want my AutoCAD!" (thumb in mouth)
(Sorry, that last one was totally unprofessional of me - no one's
ever said that during my instruction....well not out loud)
I can't comment on civil/surveying. I work in Plant Design projects.
Petro-Chemical, Oil/Gas, Nuclear for the last decade. Big honking
projects for the most part, most in the hundreds of millions (3 in the
billions). And in every one MicroStation was used either as the
primary software (Plantspace) or as the base software (PDS).
I'm on a 2 billion offshore rig project now and we're using PDS. I
just came off a 7 billion nuclear facility job. PlantSpace is being
used there. On one project we used MicroStation in conjunction with
PDMS. Very versatile.
And now the Bentley's have bought Rebis?!? Holy mackeral thats a big
glob
of the Plant Design market they operate in now. I would say that
AutoDesk
will continue to develop in a mechanical direction, (MDT, Inventor)
and
the Bentley's will head in the 'Plant' direction (base file format for
PDS,
PlantSpace and now AutoPlant).
The incorporation of the remaining modeller commands into V8.1 means
only that
they have increased base functionality but have no plans to be serious
mechanical modelling contenders.
I'm just speculating of course....
DougW
Inga M.
"DougW" <dougla...@msn.com> wrote in message
> "I want my AutoCAD!" (thumb in mouth)
> (Sorry, that last one was totally unprofessional of me - no one's
> ever said that during my instruction....well not out loud)
I didn't really want to jump in here either, and certainly don't mean any
disrespect, but rather feel that my experiences are valid and may assist
some (AuotCAD) users who are struggling with MicroStation....
I've taught hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of AutoCAD users and can
tell you that I *seldom* hear complaints about MicroStation. At the
beinning of each class I have a little pep talk about transferring thier
skill set and how it will make them that much more marketable being
bilingual. We discuss the merits of knowing MicroStation in an AutoCAD
world and how MicroStation users typically earn more money. We talk about
my expectations as an instructor and thier expectations as a student. I
explain that MicroStation is just a tool, no different than AutoCAD, and
while it'll feel a bit awkward at first, they'll love it within 4 hours.
And you know what ? 99% of my AutoCAD students to say "Cool", "Wow",
"Neat", or "I like this" by the time lunch rolls around on the first day of
class. Teaching AutoCAD users is a very rewarding experience for me and can
honestly say that they are a great group of people to have in class.
Perhaps it has to do with course delivery, content, training environment,
and expectations and attitudes.
Best Regards,
Inga
Chris Zakrewsky
Just liked the new subject line better than the old one ;-)
/Chris Z.
"Inga M." <moro...@NOSPAMworkplacewisdom.com> wrote in message news:zXV69.52147$Vj3.2...@news0.telusplanet.net...
Simon Wurster
back. We do have a custom interface, plenty of bells-and-whistles in the
form of macros, Visual Basic .exe's, and MDLs, but I think they just
find AutoCAD annoying after using MicroStation.
Sticking with facts and real-life experiences, here are the major issues
(MicroStation/J and AutoCAD 2000):
--MicroStation "scales" well. Do a small job--fine. Do a $300 million
(US) job--fine. AutoCAD just seems to drag its heels as file size
(active or Xref'ed or both) increases.
--The plotting system in AutoCAD 2000 is cute and push-button--but don't
share those files with anyone! Why? All the plot settings are embedded
in the .DWG file, including printer queue names and device names. If you
don't have those exact same names (who does?), you'll have a hefty
plotting reorganization task ahead. Kind of makes "a quick plot of 40
drawings" a 4-hour ordeal. My God, I just wonder what they were
thinking!
--AC's footprint in memory is nearly 18 mb. MS's footprint is 12.5 mb.
In both, I'll open the same file... here are the results AC: 40.5 mb,
MS: 20.0 mb. Hmmmmm, something is wrong here, seriously wrong. Didn't
anyone notice this?
--When trying to determine why AC 2000 with Land Development 2 ran at a
snail's pace on our nifty Pentium III 450s w/64mb RAM (which ran
MicroStation and InRoads very well at the time doing similar work),
Autodesk said, quite condescendingly, we "should have 750 mb RAM,
perhaps 1 GB RAM for heavy-duty design work." Are they kidding? How
about fixing their piss-poor memory-management algorithms first!
--Every time I use AutoCAD and exit, my PC runs slowly, until I reboot.
Another example of AC's bad memory management.
--We're still looking for a way to TURN OFF MDI (mult. document
interface, the ability to open more than one DWG at once, like Word and
Excel). This has caused sooo many file-access issues.
--Today, I had the wonderful experience of reloading Xrefs: click on
Reload--nothing. Hmmm. Click on the file, then Reload. Still nothing.
Oh! Click on the file, click on Reload, THEN click on OK (which closes
the dialog box--Doh!). Again, what were they thinking?
--And Xref file paths... never mind.
Autodesk's target market (or bread-and-butter revenue stream) still
seems to be the small architectural firm, designing Gap and Brookstone
retail stores, perhaps with 8-12 CAD users max. Issues with MDI are
solved by shout over the cubicle wall, project file size never exceed
500kb, the total number of files never exceeds 200 or so, plotting is
done on a single plotter device, and "sharing" files is relegated to an
occasional block-insert of some layer... The benefit of MicroStation on
a large project like Doug's 7 billion (AU?) nuclear plant DO filter down
to the small bridge repair project I worked on this week. Sometimes I
forget that when using MicroStation; but I'm always reminded of that
when I use AutoCAD.
I think Autodesk has done the wonderful architectural industry a
terrible disservice with their memory-leaking, counter-intuitive,
shiny-top-rusty-bottom, "software." But like Microsoft, being No. 1 is
not about being the best, but just being the biggest.
Sadly,
Yes-I-had-to-use-AutoCAD-today-and-it-ruined-everything
Simon
Bryan Sapen
DGN, I tell them to sit on their left hand.
--
Bryan Sapen, CCA
Principal | Technology
IMAGINiT, Rocky Mountain
A Rand Worldwide Company
Citrix, Autodesk, Bentley Systems, Microsoft
6334 S. Racine Circle, Suite 202
Englewood, CO 80111
720.529.1400 main
720.529.1450 fax
303.222.0641 direct
Imagination is more important than knowledge. Knowledge is limited.
Imagination encircles the world.
--Albert Einstein
"DougW" <dougla...@msn.com> wrote in message
news:49441203.02081...@posting.google.com...
Mark Gonzales
news:ADY69.116388$UU1.20960@sccrnsc03...
> Doug you forgot, Why can't I use the escape key??? When I teach DWG users
in
> DGN, I tell them to sit on their left hand.
Some veteran AutoCAD user ALSO uses their left hand to enter commands (i.e.
L for Line, C for Copy, etc. - per the customizable PGP file).
After a number of years, you know exactly where each key is without thinking
about it and you don't have to move your mouse to a toolbar button or the
pull-down menu. Your right hand is already on the right mouse button, so
pressing L (left hand) followed by an instantaneous right mouse click starts
the line command. Even a two letter key-in (i.e. RO for rotate) is
instantaneous over time. And of course, AutoCAD's Rotate command rotates
objects (single and multiple), reference files, etc. (one rotate command for
everything).
MicroStation does have many more bells and is a more "professional" package,
IMO. But it lacks some simpler methods for doing things (at least it did
when I used it 7 years ago) and that becomes very important when you're in a
hurry! Note that I work with 2D exclusively (MEP).
To the other poster that doesn't want Multiple Drawing Interface. SDI = 1.
--
Mark Gonzales
news:3D5C3FE7...@worldnet.att.net...
> Same experience here... not one of our AutoCAD2uStn converts wants to go
> back. We do have a custom interface, plenty of bells-and-whistles in the
> form of macros, Visual Basic .exe's, and MDLs, but I think they just
> find AutoCAD annoying after using MicroStation.
Perhaps they were using AutoCAD with very little customization. I know
MicroStation users who use less customization than my simple add-on for
AutoCAD LT (pic: http://lt-solutions.com/images/screenshots/macrocad.jpg). I
sure wouldn't want to use MS like that. So maybe it's your abundance of
add-ons that makes the difference?
--
Ralph Hertle
Your insightful comparisons are always
gratifying to read.
Are you still the CAD Manager for that
$multi-billion engineering firm in NYC?
Thank you.
Ralph Hertle
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
Ralph Hertle
MSTN comands immediately cancel upon entering
another command. That is unless you haven't reset
out of the local task, e.g., drawing the second
point of a fence block.
After drawing a straight line in Place Line for
example in MSTN, the command is still active
and ready to draw more line segments with more
points. Selecting Place Circle, however, closes
the previous command and activates Place Circle.
MSTN asks for the first datapoint at a location
depending on which type of circle was previously
or will be currently selected, e.g., by edge,
diameter, or by radius.
MicroStation-V8, I suspect is a new million-color
exponential paint box for 3D programmers.
Ralph Hertle
Ralph Hertle
Permit me to add a remark or two in the text:
Wayne wrote:
> Wow Kelly, did you ever strike up a conversation!
>
> I too have extensive use in AutoCAD and MicroStation. Up to V8 (or V*,
> Scott) my preference was with AutoCAD mainly for two reasons. One is the
> limits of the working plane/cube. I realize that the original format has
> been perpetuated from the old days when 2^32 was a lot, but this placed a
> limit on your coordinate values, particularly state plane coordinate values
> which would often run of the edge of MicroStation's world.
MicroStation's finite point system was more accurate within its selected
design cube size settings. AutoCAD was more accurate with small exponents and
was less accurate than MSTN with large exponents. In MSTN a value of 1/8"
would always be located on the money whether or not the data was entered
in fractions or decimals. ACAD, however, was often less accurate due to its
reliance on exponents. Now, MSTN V8 has shifted to an exponential system,
however, it is a double precision system with virtually unlimited positional
values at extreme accuracies. MSTN now offers the most comprehensive and
accurate file measurement system. Read the MSTN docs for the descriptions of
their extraordinary file format engineering accomplishment.
> My other concern
> about MicroStation prior to V8 is the way that reference files are
> attached-at the global origin regardless of it's value. You may have a GO of
> 0,0 in one file, reference another file with a GO of 6,000,000 2,000,000 and
> the program will put the files together at the global origin and not at the
> real world coordinate.
MSTN's files are referenced according to their Global Origins, GO=x,y,z, values.
If different x,y,z values exist for an active file, and for another drawing that
has been attached as a reference file, the data will appear at different locations
in the design volume. Each user will have to move the location or origin of the
same reference file. That means potential inaccuracies. Instead, the GO for the
file that is attached may be reset. Then that file, when attached by different
users, will display with not only its GO=0,0,0 the same for both files, but
that the data will consistently appear at the right places for all users.
There is more to it, but that is the basic idea.
The GO= setting is a marvelous tool for the coordination of projects. All the
data will always be positioned in a consistent way on all models or drawings.
For example, the engine block will be located in the selected project coordinate
system on the proper engine mounts and chassis, and not somewhere in Brooklyn.
> Now in V8, you have the option to use the world
> coordinate or the GO as the reference point of the attachment.
You may be confusing the Global Origin, GO=x,y,z, of a file with its World Origin,
WO=x,y,z.
The WO value of a design file is the x,y,z location in the active design file
that corresponds to the lower left corner of the View. Once set, the view
will always default to that displayed location. That is useful for setting
the WO for adjacently positioned map sections and then viewing each one,
respectively, with all eight of the corresponding adjacent files partially
shown in in the proper positions.
Also, on a lawn mower design, one designer can work on the crankshaft design
on his screen, and another, similarly on the spark plug. When both designs
are referenced in a new active design file, and both have the same GO=location,
a new WO=location may be set for the new active file. Then the three files will
have their data in the proper relationships, and the data will appear at the same
relative screen location set for the new file, and not over in Brooklyn.
> This leads to (the)
> question. MicroStation was obviously written for a wide audience. How many
> of those deal with surveying/civil curriculums? My guess is a lower
> percentage.
>
> Wayne
Many users move their data in the design files to accomplish these ends, and
that has certain risks due to possible operator errors. Or, operators will
rely on the Windowing commands, or on Fit View, especially on machines with
faster graphics processing speeds. Operators will also move reference files
around a lot if the data are drawn at different locations, and that has risks
as well in that if reference files are not consistently placed in coordinated
locations new data drawn over them may be misplaced. If you have to enter and
view drawings frequently, or to frequently attach and detach drawings from
different projects, you may well want to be conversant regarding GO and WO.
If you are a Pragmatist learner, and you just want to get busy making drawings
on a file by file basis, you needn't ever be concerned with GO and WO. However,
if you are working on getting two tunnels under a river to meet exactly, or
you want to design a skyscraper with all its parts in the right places, GO and
WO will be a daily concern.
These settings are of special importance on large or complex projects, and
immense amounts of time and error will be saved. They are especially useful
where the design data needs to be organized into certain precise 3-dimensional
relationships.
Ralph Hertle
""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""
[ quoted post omitted ]
.
Bear
It is also used by just about every major industrial company in the state as
well.
Hatch, Minproc, SKM, Fluor and is easily the most used package in the
industrial sector.
Even to the point that PDS and FrameWorks are taking a back foot.
--
Sean Forward (Bear)
be...@aussiebear.com
http://aussiebear.com
be...@fishingwa.com
check out my new column at http://fishingwa.com
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
I live in my own little world, but it's ok, they know me
here.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
"Steve" <stevem...@primus.com.au> wrote in message
news:3d5a4...@news.iprimus.com.au...
Žobert
exponential paint box for 3D programmers."
you got that one right!!!!!!!!!!!!!
;-)
Bill Dickens
sco...@excite.com (Scott Alan) wrote in message news:<f41476ed.02081...@posting.google.com>...
Bill Dickens
time!
dougla...@msn.com (DougW) wrote in message news:<49441203.02081...@posting.google.com>...
> 1 "It has dialogs all over the screen you have to move or kill..."
> (I do neither, I toggle the display of any number of them
> on/off with one click)[dmsg sinkall tog]
Never knew that one so I created a macro to kill all the dialogs
except Print and Reference files. Placed it on an element select and
others
> 2 "It has toolboxes all over the screen you have to move or kill..."
> (I do neither, I have a popup menu on my mouse thumb button
> that disappears after I click the tool)
> 3 "It has no text based menu - command aliasing..."
> (I have 200 2-character aliases programmed in accudraw - none
> requiring an enter key)
What are they? Please share!
> 4 "Window commands suck..."
> (Not as flashy as realtime pan/zoom but just as quick and
> effective)
With the 5 button mouse you can have zoom in/out, update view,
pan,rotate,view previous...much faster than anything THEY ever
experienced.
> And now the Bentley's have bought Rebis?!? Holy mackeral thats a big
> glob
> of the Plant Design market they operate in now. I would say that
> AutoDesk
> will continue to develop in a mechanical direction, (MDT, Inventor)
> and
> the Bentley's will head in the 'Plant' direction (base file format for
> PDS,
> PlantSpace and now AutoPlant).
>
> The incorporation of the remaining modeller commands into V8.1 means
> only that
> they have increased base functionality but have no plans to be serious
> mechanical modelling contenders.
>
> I'm just speculating of course....
Plant Design is virtually all mechanical.
Bill
Bill Dickens
"Mark Gonzales" wrote:
> Some veteran AutoCAD user ALSO uses their left hand to enter commands (i.e.
> L for Line, C for Copy, etc. - per the customizable PGP file).
> After a number of years,
Hummmmm....
Shouldn't they be ready to go in about 4 hours?
> you know exactly where each key is without thinking
> about it and you don't have to move your mouse to a toolbar button or the
> pull-down menu. Your right hand is already on the right mouse button, so
> pressing L (left hand) followed by an instantaneous right mouse click starts
> the line command. Even a two letter key-in (i.e. RO for rotate) is
> instantaneous over time. And of course, AutoCAD's Rotate command rotates
> objects (single and multiple), reference files, etc. (one rotate command for
> everything).
>
> MicroStation does have many more bells and is a more "professional" package,
> IMO. But it lacks some simpler methods for doing things (at least it did
> when I used it 7 years ago) and that becomes very important when you're in a
> hurry! Note that I work with 2D exclusively (MEP).
>
> To the other poster that doesn't want Multiple Drawing Interface. SDI = 1.
Is it here? Where???
Bill
Inga M.
> > (I do neither, I have a popup menu on my mouse thumb button
> > that disappears after I click the tool)
Make your own PopUp Toolbox:
http://www.askinga.com/article.asp?ArticleID=118
Customize your Mouse Buttons:
http://www.askinga.com/article.asp?ArticleID=57
> > 3 "It has no text based menu - command aliasing..."
> > (I have 200 2-character aliases programmed in accudraw - none
> > requiring an enter key)
>
>
> What are they? Please share!
>
Command Aliasing Part 1
http://www.askinga.com/article.asp?ArticleID=44
Command Aliasing Part 2
http://www.askinga.com/article.asp?ArticleID=45
Multiple AccuDraw Shortcuts:
http://www.askinga.com/article.asp?ArticleID=94
Bill Dickens
Looks like there is a clever guy here!
> Perhaps they were using AutoCAD with very little customization. I know
> MicroStation users who use less customization than my simple add-on for
> AutoCAD LT (pic: http://lt-solutions.com/images/screenshots/macrocad.jpg). I
> sure wouldn't want to use MS like that.
I've got many simple add-ons for MS too. And users swear by them.
>So maybe it's your abundance of
> add-ons that makes the difference?
It looks to me like you could virtually replicate interfaces in either system.
So the interface makes the difference! Yup... always will.
Does AC have InfoSnap?... Anything like it at all?
And Mark, what does System mean to you?... as in the dialog that's hidden.
There are 21 Building Systems in any building.
;-) Bill
Bill Dickens
Comp.cad.microstation is the place to discuss the future.
Mark's work is interesting and apparently good.
Perhaps it's the interface that makes the difference!
So what are the principles of fine interface design? Anybody know?
Has
this been thought out? Is there consistency here?
Complexity/simplicity?
Less is more?
Secrets/unconcealment?
Form follows function?
Ease/difficulty?
Tight/Loose?
Scattered/functionally grouped?
Disperate means/uniform means?
Many clicks/1 click
1click/no clicks...taries
Ordered sets/disordered arrays?
Minimized commands/maximized commands?
Universal commands/specific commands?
Many commands/few commands?
Grouped boxes/assortments?
Multiple input vectors/unitary input vectors?
Multiple input devices/unitary input devices?
Elegant simplicity/mixed bag of tricks?
If agreement can be gained upon the principles then the philosophy
would be
established.
The philosophy would guide the design.
"The philosophy makes the difference..." Mies
I'd bet that if a consensus could be gained, all would benefit.
Bill
DougW
environment,
and expectations and attitudes."
Right you are Inga, and I don't mean any disrespect either. But keep
in mind you're environment most likely means you deal with people who
actually have a interest in learning a new software. Your focus is to
make them as proficient as you can, and that's as it should be. My
focus is to get the project done, and that's fine too. But it means I
have sometimes had to deal with a small (and usually vocal) percentage
of people quite happy with the status quo and quite resentful of
having to learn a whole new schtick. And while I sympathize, I cannot
afford too much time to coddle. I think this has nothing to do with
AutoCAD per se. I imagine if the situation was reversed, these same
people would be whining about the lack of accudraw in ACAD (I know I
do! ;-).
Still these types of people are in the minority. As you, and Simon in
the other topic, have mentiuned, most of the people I've trained in
USTN, now just love it.
I guess the point is...you've gotta want to learn something new, or at
least demonstrate a professional attitude even if you dislike a new
software. That hasn't always been the case with the people I've dealt
with.
Best!
Doug
Inga M.
Mark Gonzales
news:c9274f87.02081...@posting.google.com...
> "Mark Gonzales" <enter_...@attbi.com> wrote in message
news:<ajho5e$glt$1...@nntp-m01.news.aol.com>...
>
> Looks like there is a clever guy here!
;-)
> > Perhaps they were using AutoCAD with very little customization. I know
> > MicroStation users who use less customization than my simple add-on for
> > AutoCAD LT (pic:
http://lt-solutions.com/images/screenshots/macrocad.jpg). I
> > sure wouldn't want to use MS like that.
>
> I've got many simple add-ons for MS too. And users swear by them.
>
> >So maybe it's your abundance of
> > add-ons that makes the difference?
>
> It looks to me like you could virtually replicate interfaces in either
system.
>
> So the interface makes the difference! Yup... always will.
>
> Does AC have InfoSnap?... Anything like it at all?
Ok, I've been away from MS for awhile. How about a quick InfoSnap summary?
Would this be anything like AC's AutoSnap w/marker? Which MS version
introduced it?
>
> And Mark, what does System mean to you?... as in the dialog that's hidden.
> There are 21 Building Systems in any building.
Uh, you lost me there...I'm not TOO cleaver. What dialog? I'll take your
word for it about the 21 Building Systems. I've only dealt with 4 or 5
(while incl. stuff like Fire Protection with Plumbing).
--
>
> ;-) Bill
Mark Gonzales
> Since this post was killed in the newsgroups perhaps
> Comp.cad.microstation is the place to discuss the future.
>
> Mark's work is interesting and apparently good.
Hey man, thanks!
That pic I showed was a program that's currently getting a MAJOR overhaul so
I'll post a new pic when I'm done - with the MicroStation look!
Just for kicks, I'm going to include a MS looking interface (toolbar buttons
and stuff) to see just how much I can make LT at least LOOK like MS. Hey, I
already have repeating commands and the ability to setup active settings
prior to using a command (i.e. Fillet) which is a start. ;-) I don't believe
that I can make a Reset of the right mouse button, though. And it's ashamed
I can't do some REAL programming and replicate MS's awesome Reference File
abilities, eh? Even my AA and AS are pretty crude compared to the real
thing. But at least I'm using the concept.
Anyway, I started creating a MS looking interface some time back when a
couple of my old MS buddies complained about using a copy of LT on rare
occasion when it wasn't worth translating DWG (they didn't want to pay for
full AutoCAD). So I thought I'd give them a little bit of home while having
to deal with such an inferior CAD program. But now with V8, I guess they
don't need that seat of LT any more. So I'll just do it for me.
Uhh, ok. Sounds good to me. <shrug>
--
Mark
>
> Bill
Mark Gonzales
> Woah!
>
> "Mark Gonzales" wrote:
>
> > Some veteran AutoCAD user ALSO uses their left hand to enter commands
(i.e.
> > L for Line, C for Copy, etc. - per the customizable PGP file).
>
>
> > After a number of years,
>
> Hummmmm....
>
> Shouldn't they be ready to go in about 4 hours?
Phffftttt (sp?). Heh heh.
Maybe 4 hours for newbies who like choosing pretty toolbar buttons and using
the default white background! Just give me the maximum black drawing screen
real estate, please.
I've read rumors that Autodesk wants to phase out the command line to get
with the times. They better not! Oh, would I be pissed!
On a similar note: I see on the Viecon groups that Bentley is reluctant to
consider improvements if it means straying from Microsoft's UI standards.
Screw that! This ain't no freggin' Word or Excel! Just do what works!
> > you know exactly where each key is without thinking
> > about it and you don't have to move your mouse to a toolbar button or
the
> > pull-down menu. Your right hand is already on the right mouse button, so
> > pressing L (left hand) followed by an instantaneous right mouse click
starts
> > the line command. Even a two letter key-in (i.e. RO for rotate) is
> > instantaneous over time. And of course, AutoCAD's Rotate command rotates
> > objects (single and multiple), reference files, etc. (one rotate command
for
> > everything).
> >
> > MicroStation does have many more bells and is a more "professional"
package,
> > IMO. But it lacks some simpler methods for doing things (at least it did
> > when I used it 7 years ago) and that becomes very important when you're
in a
> > hurry! Note that I work with 2D exclusively (MEP).
> >
> > To the other poster that doesn't want Multiple Drawing Interface. SDI =
1.
>
>
> Is it here? Where???
If you're asking about the setting, type SDI <Return> 1 <Return> on the
command line.
Alternate: Type Options. Select the System tab. check Single-drawing
compatibility mode.
--
Mark
>
>
> Bill
Bill Dickens
I am well aware of how to make Icons and Toolboxes...
If you've read Keith Little's book on the interface you'll note that
he devotes the last chapter to the Wildman Interface... that's what he
has dubbed me.
Comman aliases is a new term to me, perhaps jargon. What does it mean?
If it means keyboard shortcuts, I won't touch them with a 10 ft. pole.
Just checking to see if I missed something.
Flyover (mouseover) commands are the way it's going to go.
Bill
"Inga M." <moro...@NOSPAMworkplacewisdom.com> wrote in message news:<KO879.2189$Eq3....@news0.telusplanet.net>...
DougW
And you've got some excellent ideas concerning InfoSnap I'd love to
see implemented, Bill. But I have to remind myself that Chris is
providing it out of the goodness of his heart. So I'd be satisfied
with just about any iteration he comes up with. I wonder if Mr.
Zakrewski realizes just how huge an impact he has had in the CAD world
with his little add-on. In my experience InfoSnap along with Accudraw,
has doubled and even tripled my speed. I use both of them in PDS,
Triforma, and MicroStation constantly. I can find no reason where I
need to have them turned off.
"Never knew that one so I created a macro to kill all the dialogs
except Print and Reference files"
Actually 'dmsg sinkall tog' works great. Couple things though:
- Doesn't work well with the Command Window option, only the Status
Bar option.
- If you like the keyin browser open, you have to add ;dialog
cmdbrows to the command
- if you like to have the snap button bar open, you have to add
;dialog snaps
"What are they? Please share!"
No problem Bill. Check out Inga's repost (God bless 'er)
"With the 5 button mouse you can have zoom in/out, update view,
pan,rotate,view previous...much faster than anything THEY ever
experienced."
Too true, I was being diplomatic. However, I terminally dislike the
traditional zoom in/out commands in USTN. I prefer a zoom NOT based on
mouse position but centred automatically in the view. I find the
Imouse zoom wheel function in MicroStation to be particularly
aggrevating. I seldom use it. I have resigned myself to using the old
zoom in center/zoom out center keyins. No matter where your mouse is
the view zooms in/out at the centre. I have asked Bentley on a number
of occasions in various ways thru various people to put an option
switch in the Imouse Config dialog that allows a centered zoom, but I
guess I'm in the minority on this one. No luck.
"Plant Design is virtually all mechanical."
If you mean mechanical as in piping and elementary equipment modelling
you're right. By mechanical I was referring to solid modelling
programs such as SolidWorks/Solid Edge/Pro E/Catia.
DougW
DougW
Bill (and Mark),
Check out www.bubblecad.com . It is a free little ARX routine for
Acad. When you have no command active and you move your crosshairs
over an element (don't click) a 'bubble' appears with a wealth of info
about that element. It is NOT interactive like infosnap, and I think
is meant as a alternative to the cumbersome List command. Hint: Hold
down the ctrl key when you hover over a block and it will give you
info on the specific target element in the block.
There was also a sharware one out a few years ago called Periscope.
Doug
Bewildered
<<Imouse zoom wheel function in MicroStation to be particularly
aggrevating.>>
Hi Doug,
I too find the 'View Centre' hotkey indispensible, in 3D at least; but
if you Tentative first, the wheel will zoom on that that Tpoint- laso
indispensible!
Bill Dickens
They're catching up... Chris better get to work or they'll blow all of us away.
Bill
dougla...@msn.com (DougW) wrote in message news:<49441203.02081...@posting.google.com>...
Bill Dickens
This has something to do with "Interoperability" which was in it's
death throws.
Comments on interface below v
"Mark Gonzales" <enter_...@attbi.com> wrote
> > Mark's work is interesting and apparently good.
>
> Hey man, thanks!
>
> That pic I showed was a program that's currently getting a MAJOR overhaul so
> I'll post a new pic when I'm done - with the MicroStation look!
>
> Just for kicks, I'm going to include a MS looking interface (toolbar buttons
> and stuff) to see just how much I can make LT at least LOOK like MS. Hey, I
> already have repeating commands and the ability to setup active settings
> prior to using a command (i.e. Fillet) which is a start. ;-) I don't believe
> that I can make a Reset of the right mouse button, though. And it's ashamed
> I can't do some REAL programming and replicate MS's awesome Reference File
> abilities, eh? Even my AA and AS are pretty crude compared to the real
> thing. But at least I'm using the concept.
>
> Anyway, I started creating a MS looking interface some time back when a
> couple of my old MS buddies complained about using a copy of LT on rare
> occasion when it wasn't worth translating DWG (they didn't want to pay for
> full AutoCAD). So I thought I'd give them a little bit of home while having
> to deal with such an inferior CAD program. But now with V8, I guess they
> don't need that seat of LT any more. So I'll just do it for me.
>
>
> > Perhaps it's the interface that makes the difference!
> > So what are the principles of fine interface design? Anybody know?
> > Has this been thought out? Is there consistency here?
HERE'S MY VOTE
> > Simplicity OF COURSE
> > Less is more?... YUP ABSOLUTELY!
> > Unconcealment... PEEK A BOO AIN'T GOOD!
> > Form follows function?... SULLIVAN STARTED IT
> > Ease
> > Tight GERMAN CARS VS AMERICAN
> > Functionally grouped UGH HUNGH!
> > Uniform means CONSISTENCY
> > 1 click 1 OR LESS
> > 1click/no clicks...taries TARY TO FIND, CLICK TO GO
> > Ordered sets NEED TO CONTROL ORDER
> > Minimized/Maximized commands MINIMUM COMMANDS/MAXED POWER
> > Universal commands. COMMANDS MUST BE UNIVERSALIZED
> > Few commands LIKE WIVES...FEWER THE BETTER
> > Grouped boxes THE POWER OF ORDER
> > MultiplE/unitary input vectors OK FOR MORE, 1 PREFERRED
> > Multiple/unitary input devices CLEAN IT UP
> > Elegant simplicity SIMPLE ELEGANCE BEATS ALL
Here's what it would be for me:
1 Toolbox across the top with all the ACTIVE settings.
1 Toolbox across the bottom with all the VIEWing, Rendering and 3D
stuff.
1 3 x 3 toolbox that could be quickly summonsed or would
automatically appear 1cm from the cursor. This is the OPERATOR.
1 Powered up InfoSnap with correlate Icons, 3 message fields,
Indexable bar
1 Powered up Mouse with all primary Viewing commands, select,
delete.
1 Super UXGA LCD monitor... pref 24".
> Uhh, ok. Sounds good to me. <shrug>
Ok to shrug as long as you don't quickly follow up with a quick slap
to the forehead. :-)
Bill
Bill Dickens
You are both absolutely right about the zoom wheel... a total waste.
But, now hear me clearly, with zoom in(Window Area) and zoom out on
the mouse you have almost complete navigational control
INSTANTANEOUSLY! And you can also have pan and rotate and view
previous and delete, and ... and...
Zoom in also gives you the full crosshairs to align things.
Zoom in gives you control as to where you want to zoom in... seldom
centered for me.
IT IS DISTRESSING TO HEAR THAT SOMEONE IS USING A KEYIN THIS DAY AND
AGE!
STATIC MOUSE BUTTON CLICKS ARE BY FAR THE FASTEST WAY TO IMPLEMENT A
COMMAND!
I'LL TAKE ON ALL BETTORS...and you won't need to be bewildered.
"Try it, you'll like it!"..
;-) Bill
dol...@bigpond.net.au (Bewildered) wrote in message news:<366ca826.02081...@posting.google.com>...
Mark Gonzales
Cool!
And Periscope can be found at:
http://www.manusoft.com/Index.stm
--
Mark
>
> Doug
Bill Dickens
work
Not enough credit is being given to Infosnap and Infoglid as being a
singular and COMPELLING reason to use Microstation.
Bill
"Mark Gonzales" <enter_...@attbi.com> wrote in message news:<ajsc7b$rfu$1...@nntp-m01.news.aol.com>...
Mark Gonzales
> The answer to this is a complete yuck compared to Chris Zakrewski's
> work
>
> Not enough credit is being given to Infosnap and Infoglid as being a
> singular and COMPELLING reason to use Microstation.
I have a MicroStation gripe. Well, not with the software itself.
Here's a partial post from Viecon:
======
Bentley don't want to add this feature, instead they would like you to buy
Redline for scale printing, a very expensive option for this simple task.
Bentley, why can't you introduce a happy medium somewhere here, something
in-between Redline and View. A good value package that allows scale
printing, but doesn't have all the other options included in the Redline
package?
======
Out of curiosity, I wanted to see how much "a very expensive option" for
MicroStation cost so I went to www.bentley.com. Man, I can't find a freggin'
price for anything! I can go to http://www.autodesk.com/estore/usa/index.htm
and I know what the AutoCAD crap cost. But MicroStation and related
products? Forgetaboutit!
For whatever reason, I can't get Bentley's Search to work right - must just
be me. Where's Bentley's e-store?
And about the product mentioned above (View), I'm confused. You have to be a
SELECT subscriber to get it - OR - know someone who is that can fix you up?
Weird. I wouldn't know anyone so I guess I'd be screwed.
Anyway, my LT experience is so much simpler because it's always exactly the
same: a) drive to CompUSA b) write check for $199.00 for upgrade c) drive
home and install software. They should all be so easy, eh? ;-)
--
Mark
1...@1.com
If you think you are confused now you ought to try to figure out their
Select nonsense.
It only gets worse not better. And once you are in you can NEVER get out!!!
"Mark Gonzales" <enter_...@attbi.com> wrote in message
news:ajtt0n$ooe$1...@nntp-m01.news.aol.com...
Chuck Rheault aka CADDCOP
Over 45 of the 50 US state DOT's use MicroStation. most state plane
coordinate systems are limited to a specific range of coordinate, and
the design plane/cube fit fine within that range. And in the Civil
world, you really have to use some type of COGO package to track how
you found many coordinates, not just their values, so most people rely
on COGO for high precision and MicroStation for the plan production.
After all, road graders are not capable of high precision accuracy.
On other vein - now that I'm on a single monitor workstation, I still
use multiple views. Maximize them and add "WINDOW BOTTOMTOTOP" to some
menu, and you can instantly switch from view to view. It's similar to
the old "SWAP SCREEN" key-in from single screen DOS or CLIX
workstation days.
For me V8 is finally starting to live up to its promises, but
unfortunately the DWG compatibility has actually caused them to put
features in MicroStation that I believe are wrongly implemented in
AutoCAD. A global LTSCALE factor is one of them. In my world,
cells/blocks and linetypes exist in two basic forms. They are either
"symbols" which represent something without resembling it, and are
sized for plotting, or they are "objects" which represent something by
resembling it and are sized to match the object they represent. There
is no such thing as a global cell/block scale factor - for a good
reason, so a global linestyle scale factor is a bad idea.
Finally, most/many people always prefer the cad program the learned
first, and I'm just glad it was MicroStation.
Bill Dickens
Then place "window bottomtotop" on the mouse.
That might be a great one...
Ray said that he was issuing a CR to make what's in a view scale up as
you scale the view up either by pulling the lower right hand corner or
by doubleclicking on the titlebar.
This will save a lot of extra work.
This affects the mix as well... you could have 8 views going and zoom
in and out of all of them, one at a time.
Bill
Bear
Have you tried viewfront.ma.
I find this works better.
--
Sean Forward (Bear)
be...@aussiebear.com
http://aussiebear.com
be...@fishingwa.com
check out my new column at http://fishingwa.com
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
I live in my own little world, but it's ok, they know me
here.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
"Chuck Rheault aka CADDCOP" <c_rh...@gpinet.com> wrote in message
news:fe60d7a1.02082...@posting.google.com...
DougW
> DGN, I tell them to sit on their left hand.
True enough Brian. I'm working at a place now where ALL the
MicroStation 2D drafters have been hauled straight out of an ACAD
environment. Give 'em credit, they're trying their best, but old
notions are hard to amend. For example, we're running dual monitors
but every single one of them is staring dutifullly into that left
monitor with a big grey screen on the right. Zoom in, zoom out,
window, pan, all on one screen and view (view one). I've tried to
explain how I utilize dual monitors and the advantages, tried to work
by example, but you know how it is, old dogs, new tricks. Twin 21"
flat screen trinitron monitors and they'll only use one. So I gave up
and made them a couple of simple UCM's that act as bird's-eye views.
They pop up a fitted view 4 and then pick a new pan placement, or
window area and it updates view one and pops off view 4. Popup...I
think it's my middle name.
DougW
Allan Seidel
Simon Wurster wrote:
>
> --Today, I had the wonderful experience of reloading Xrefs: click on
> Reload--nothing. Hmmm. Click on the file, then Reload. Still nothing.
> Oh! Click on the file, click on Reload, THEN click on OK (which closes
> the dialog box--Doh!). Again, what were they thinking?
> --And Xref file paths... never mind.
>
Hello Simon et al,
I could not resist the former stomping ground after being forced to go
Acad cold turkey for the past - what - four years. Those items in
particular are typical examples of the acad interface. I've got a newly
minted VBA (it works in A2K) macro worthy of crowing about that does a
find and replace text operation on xref path names. It was made to
explicitly address the acad xref dialog interface inability to repath
xrefs when they happen to be unresolved. You guys are welcome to it if
interested. Some assembly may be required.
Regards,
Allan Seidel