PRESS RELEASE: The Major BBS for UNIX
Paul Hoffman
> Galacticomm Introduces The Major BBS for UNIX
> . . .
>
> The Major BBS for UNIX will initially support two operating systems - BSD/386
> 1.1 for the PC architecture and Solaris 2.3 for Sun SPARC platforms.
> Galacticomm will add other operating systems as market demand and development
> resources allow, according to Brinker.
This appears to a bit short-sighted. I would have expected them to port it
to more popular Intel-based Unixes like Linux, BSDI, or SCO first.
> . . .
> The Major BBS for UNIX will also include a windowing interface for Sysops to
> perform maintenance while the system is running - either locally or remotely
> over a network. It is expected to ship in December with a suggested retail
> price of $2,995 for an eight-user license.
This seems wrong. The eight-user MS-DOS version sells for about $850. Why
would someone pay that much more just for the "advantage" of running on
Unix?
--Paul Hoffman, President
--Proper Publishing
Ken Maier
>>
>>1.1 for the PC architecture and Solaris 2.3 for Sun SPARC platforms.
>>Galacticomm will add other operating systems as market demand and development
>>resources allow, according to Brinker.
>
>This appears to a bit short-sighted. I would have expected them to port it
>to more popular Intel-based Unixes like Linux, BSDI, or SCO first.
We actually started the development on Linux, but Linux doesn't have some
of the kernel level functions we need. I believe some people on the 'net
are working on the "broken" functions and once they are fixed, we'll be looking
at doing a version for Linux.
BSD/386 is by BSDI (Berkeley Software Design, Inc.) and SCO will probably
be in the works after the 1st of the year. We demonstrated a current version
of the product at ONE BBSCON in Atlanta last week and received requests for
SCO (as well as many other operating systems). Where we are headed from here
really depends on what customers desire. If anyone has other operating
systems in mind, by all means let us know!
>> over a network. It is expected to ship in December with a suggested retail
>> price of $2,995 for an eight-user license.
>
>This seems wrong. The eight-user MS-DOS version sells for about $850. Why
>would someone pay that much more just for the "advantage" of running on
>Unix?
For most DOS users the price might seem a little expensive. We are really
gearing this for those people already running UNIX that need a solution, as
well as those individuals who need a high-end solution (above the 256
concurrent user limit). If you are a DOS user and have no reason to switch,
we recommend you stay where you are. UNIX is a really nice operating system
when it comes to power, flexibility and connectivity... but it isn't for
everyone.
-ken
Ken Maier
Galacticomm, Inc.
Chris Mauritz
: >> Galacticomm Introduces The Major BBS for UNIX
: >>
: >>The Major BBS for UNIX will initially support two operating systems - BSD/386
: >>1.1 for the PC architecture and Solaris 2.3 for Sun SPARC platforms.
: >>Galacticomm will add other operating systems as market demand and development
: >>resources allow, according to Brinker.
: >
: >This appears to a bit short-sighted. I would have expected them to port it
: >to more popular Intel-based Unixes like Linux, BSDI, or SCO first.
: We actually started the development on Linux, but Linux doesn't have some
: of the kernel level functions we need. I believe some people on the 'net
: are working on the "broken" functions and once they are fixed, we'll be looking
: at doing a version for Linux.
: BSD/386 is by BSDI (Berkeley Software Design, Inc.) and SCO will probably
: be in the works after the 1st of the year. We demonstrated a current version
: of the product at ONE BBSCON in Atlanta last week and received requests for
: SCO (as well as many other operating systems). Where we are headed from here
: really depends on what customers desire. If anyone has other operating
: systems in mind, by all means let us know!
BSDI/386 also has the advantage of being more robust and having paid
technical support available for the OS.
: >> over a network. It is expected to ship in December with a suggested retail
: >> price of $2,995 for an eight-user license.
: >
: >This seems wrong. The eight-user MS-DOS version sells for about $850. Why
: >would someone pay that much more just for the "advantage" of running on
: >Unix?
: For most DOS users the price might seem a little expensive. We are really
: gearing this for those people already running UNIX that need a solution, as
: well as those individuals who need a high-end solution (above the 256
: concurrent user limit). If you are a DOS user and have no reason to switch,
: we recommend you stay where you are. UNIX is a really nice operating system
: when it comes to power, flexibility and connectivity... but it isn't for
: everyone.
Translation:
We'll charge what the market can/will bear since we know that unix people
are used to paying through the nose for unix versions of DOS software, even
when there is less functionality.
Too bad there isn't a group of hackers to write a nice BBS package for
linux with typical DOS bbs features. They'd make a hell of a lot of money
for a reasonably priced product.
Chris
--
Christopher Mauritz | Ask me about public access unix
ri...@mordor.com | and interactive internet services.
Mordor International BBS | BBS: (201)433-7343,(212)843-3451
Jersey City, NJ | FAX: (201)433-4222
dave livingston
>
>We'll charge what the market can/will bear since we know that unix people
>are used to paying through the nose for unix versions of DOS software, even
>when there is less functionality.
This robust unix user wouldn't even think about it at that price with
what it offers.
dave livingston NandO.net
bell captain NandoLand 919.829.3560 (105 Lines)
919.829.4836(v) Free Internet Access to NC SchoolKids Raleigh, NC
da...@nando.net
Ben Loyall
>Ken Maier (k...@munich.gcomm.com) wrote:
>: >> Galacticomm Introduces The Major BBS for UNIX
[..deleted features list etc...]
>: >> over a network. It is expected to ship in December with a suggested retail
>: >> price of $2,995 for an eight-user license.
>: >
>: >This seems wrong. The eight-user MS-DOS version sells for about $850. Why
>: >would someone pay that much more just for the "advantage" of running on
>: >Unix?
>: For most DOS users the price might seem a little expensive. We are really
>: gearing this for those people already running UNIX that need a solution, as
>: well as those individuals who need a high-end solution (above the 256
>: concurrent user limit). If you are a DOS user and have no reason to switch,
>: we recommend you stay where you are. UNIX is a really nice operating system
>: when it comes to power, flexibility and connectivity... but it isn't for
>: everyone.
>Translation:
>We'll charge what the market can/will bear since we know that unix people
>are used to paying through the nose for unix versions of DOS software, even
>when there is less functionality.
>Too bad there isn't a group of hackers to write a nice BBS package for
>linux with typical DOS bbs features. They'd make a hell of a lot of money
>for a reasonably priced product.
What is wrong with Uniboard? $200 for 64 user version last I checked.
And it has performed well here. I use it for a familer frontend for a
Public Access Internet. Helps for people who have "shell shock"
translation: "people who beleive the idiots that suggest Unix can only be
used by a rocket scientist".
Uniboard is also available in higher user configs.
--
Ben Loyall | (804) 221-8070 28.8 & down
Widomaker Public Access Internet | Unix shell for 60 hours/month, $20
Williamsburg, Virginia | PPP/SLIP for 60 hours/month, $30
Shells, PPP/SLIP, Dedicated IP, Feeds, DNS and MX available
Chris Mauritz
: In article <Cv1zD...@ritz.mordor.com>,
: >
: >We'll charge what the market can/will bear since we know that unix people
: >are used to paying through the nose for unix versions of DOS software, even
: >when there is less functionality.
: This robust unix user wouldn't even think about it at that price with
: what it offers.
Yup. What a RIP. <pun alert>
Hehe....Chris
John Adams
: >> over a network. It is expected to ship in December with a suggested retail
: >> price of $2,995 for an eight-user license.
: For most DOS users the price might seem a little expensive. We are really
: gearing this for those people already running UNIX that need a soluti
That is just salespeak for "hey, we've got 'em where we want 'em. Since there
isn't any competition, we're going to stick it to them like Apple does
with Mac prices."
Of *course* you are gearing a UNIX-based bbs at people running UNIX. You
don't create a UNIX-based piece of software for someone running OS/2.
If you really want to have your product take off, don't price gouge.
By reading any one of the unix groups, you can easily discern that hundreds
of home/*small* business users are switching to UNIX. A large organization
is going to either simply sell shell access (complete with telnet/ftp/cnews/rn
tin/tass/mud/etc/etc) or use a scripting system such as the freenets. A
large organization is not going to buy an eight-user license since most
large services support hundreds of simultaneous users.
--
John 'Vlad' Adams ** Network Administrator, NADEP Pensacola FL
Internet: jma...@freenet.tlh.fl.us *or* ada...@narfpns.navy.mil
The Beachside BBS +1.904.492.2305 V.34/HST/FAX 1:3612/57@fidonet
Steve Manes
: Translation:
: We'll charge what the market can/will bear since we know that unix people
: are used to paying through the nose for unix versions of DOS software, even
: when there is less functionality.
Actually, Unix people (users) are used to getting this stuff for free. But
out of virus and piracy concerns, largely unwarranted, a lot of companies
have established policies requiring that software be commercially purchased
through approved vendors only. Infocenter managers would rather justify
bloated software budgets to their bosses than explain why the company's DP
operation was brought to its knees by a tainted piece of software an
employee dragged in off the internet. In this situation, MajorBBS is a
decent deal, or at least no more pricey than other commercial Unix BBSes.
For everyone else, if you've got Unix and 256 available ports and want to
open a 256 "node" BBS with all the buzz-feechers like Usenet, internet mail,
telnet, ftp and gopher, pick up a copies of CNEWS, TIN and ELM from
ftp.uu.net and you're a 256-node BBS. Want client/server graphical reader
support for all the above via SLIP? Install public domain popmail, NNTP and
gopher daemons and distribute copies of MINUET and SLIP 2.x from
boombox.micro.umn.edu to your users. Have an internet connection and want
Web support? The W3 server software is free too. Want contract tech
support? Well, er, that's when you call someone like me <g>.
: Too bad there isn't a group of hackers to write a nice BBS package for
: linux with typical DOS bbs features. They'd make a hell of a lot of money
: for a reasonably priced product.
I understood that there already was such an effort underway but I don't know
what its status is. The current problem with Linux is what the individual
from Galicticomm alluded to. The last time we checked, no manufacturers of
intelligent serial boards had yet developed drivers for Linux and the TCP
support was still a bit shakey so pushing lots of users on a terminal server
might be a little hair-raising. But Linux development is moving at
light-speed so these problems may be no longer.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Steve Manes ma...@magpie.com
N'Yawk, N'Yawk =o&>o
System Administrator
: In article <Cv1zD...@ritz.mordor.com>,
: >
: >We'll charge what the market can/will bear since we know that unix people
: >are used to paying through the nose for unix versions of DOS software, even
: >when there is less functionality.
: This robust unix user wouldn't even think about it at that price with
: what it offers.
I agree.
--
Duane Davis | God put me on earth to accomplish a certain number of
ro...@dsnet.com | things. Right now I am so far behind I will never die
Karl Denninger
>perform maintenance while the system is running - either locally or remotely
>price of $2,995 for an eight-user license.
>
$3,000! That's insane!
Folks, AKCS is available *in source form* from our FTP site, and for
evaluation use it is FREE. We do ask for a license fee if you're going to
use it in commercial applications (ie: on a system you take money for access
to) but we're talking about $500 there *and you have source*.
AKCS has been around since 1987. Its expandable, customizable, and very
efficient. It may not have all the bells and whistles of a Major BBS, but
it also doesn't have the Major Cost.
That pricetag, IMHO, puts it COMPLETELY beyond reason. I have a half-dozen
customers I would recommend it to, but not for that money.
--
--
Karl Denninger (ka...@MCS.Net)| MCSNet - The Finest Internet Connectivity
Modem: [+1 312 248-0900] | (shell, PPP, SLIP, leased) in Chicagoland
Voice/Fax: [+1 312 248-8649] | 5 POPs throughout the area, all 28.8 equipped
MCSNet is a CIX Member | Email to "in...@mcs.net" for a more information
Ask about "MCSNet Rewards" | WWW: http://www.mcs.net, gopher: gopher.mcs.net
Leon Bair
>
>BSD/386 is by BSDI (Berkeley Software Design, Inc.) and SCO will probably
>be in the works after the 1st of the year. We demonstrated a current version
>of the product at ONE BBSCON in Atlanta last week and received requests for
>SCO (as well as many other operating systems). Where we are headed from here
>really depends on what customers desire. If anyone has other operating
>systems in mind, by all means let us know!
>
>
Since you asked, the company that I work for will only (for some
strange reason) allow us to use AT&T UNIX SVR4. I'd be shot for
even mentioning Sun SPARC systems, one of our competitors :-).
Another alternative would be UnixWare 1.1, since we are making
our UNIX compatible with UnixWare.
Regards.
AT&T - Global Information Solutions
Leon Bair
Leon...@ColumbiaSC.NCR.COM
Great Wizard of SoCal
: BSD/386 is by BSDI (Berkeley Software Design, Inc.) and SCO will probably
: be in the works after the 1st of the year. We demonstrated a current version
: of the product at ONE BBSCON in Atlanta last week and received requests for
: SCO (as well as many other operating systems). Where we are headed from here
: really depends on what customers desire. If anyone has other operating
: systems in mind, by all means let us know!
Before doing an SCO version, take a good look at the price of the operating
software based on 8 users. Your software is good, but not worth almost
double the price of SCO UNIX. Why not be honest enough to say that this
version is designed for the huge online service provider or corporation
and not for the smaller installations that made you what you are as a
company today...(Remember that $59.00 2line bbs you started the DOS
version with???) I still have the original diskettes!
The idea that you are offering a base package starting with 8 users is
nothing less than a laugh. Your target market for this product is no
where near an 8 line bbs, the price makes that very clear.
: For most DOS users the price might seem a little expensive. We are really
: gearing this for those people already running UNIX that need a solution, as
: well as those individuals who need a high-end solution (above the 256
: concurrent user limit).
Those already ruuning UNIX on a PC based environment will still find
Three Thousand Dollars for an 8 line bbs quite expensive....
: -ken
: Ken Maier
: Galacticomm, Inc.
Good luck Ken! :)
Hal Davison
>And it has performed well here. I use it for a familer frontend for a
>Public Access Internet. Helps for people who have "shell shock"
>translation: "people who beleive the idiots that suggest Unix can only be
>used by a rocket scientist".
>
OK, I'll bite..Where do we find 'Uniboard' ?
====================================================================
Hal L. Davison----------------------------InterNet: hdav...@bix.com
6850 Myakka Valley Trail-----------------------FAX: (813) 921-6578--
Sarasota, Florida 34241 USA-----------------------------------------
Developer of the Interactive Multi-Player Simulation 'Lords of Orion
====================================================================
Michael Dillon
> > . . .
> >
> > The Major BBS for UNIX will initially support two operating systems - BSD/386
> > 1.1 for the PC architecture and Solaris 2.3 for Sun SPARC platforms.
> > Galacticomm will add other operating systems as market demand and development
> > resources allow, according to Brinker.
>
> This appears to a bit short-sighted. I would have expected them to port it
> to more popular Intel-based Unixes like Linux, BSDI, or SCO first.
But BSDI 386 1.1 is THE best 386/486 UNIX for running an Internet
connected site. It has the most stable TCP/IP of the lot. Believe me,
I run several SCO UNIX systems and have to contend with their buggy
networking code everyday. Thank god I don't have them connected to
the Internet!
email in...@bsdi.com if you want to find out more or else point
your WWW browser at http://www.bsdi.com. When we get our local
Internet Service Provider up and running this fall we will be using
BSDI for sure.
cruisin' down the information highway, lookin' for a blast
breakin' all the speed limits as I come zoomin' past!
--
Michael Dillon Internet: mpdi...@halcyon.halcyon.com
C-4 Powerhouse Fidonet: 1:353/350
RR #2 Armstrong, BC V0E 1B0 Voice: +1-604-546-8022
Canada BBS: +1-604-546-2705
Michael Dillon
> what its status is. The current problem with Linux is what the individual
> from Galicticomm alluded to. The last time we checked, no manufacturers of
> intelligent serial boards had yet developed drivers for Linux and the TCP
> support was still a bit shakey so pushing lots of users on a terminal server
> might be a little hair-raising.
Digiboard is porting their drivers for the PC 4/e, 8/e, 16/e boards
to Linux.
Segmentation fault
> Actually, Unix people (users) are used to getting this stuff for free. But
> out of virus and piracy concerns, largely unwarranted, a lot of companies
> have established policies requiring that software be commercially purchased
> through approved vendors only.
That's rather interesting, since some of the most widely-publicized software
is free. Example; Mosaic.
> In this situation, MajorBBS is a decent deal, or at least no more pricey
> than other commercial Unix BBSes.
But the fact is it's still *expensive*. What would make somebody want to
use the Unix version over the DOS version? I would think that they would
offer it at a comperable price, if not cheaper. I don't think they're going
to get that much business off it.
> For everyone else, if you've got Unix and 256 available ports and want to
> open a 256 "node" BBS with all the buzz-feechers like Usenet, internet mail,
> telnet, ftp and gopher, pick up a copies of CNEWS, TIN and ELM from
> ftp.uu.net and you're a 256-node BBS.
Modified, of course, so that a user can't do a shell. Now...why would any DOS
user (which would be the most obvious selling point for MajorBBS...most people
setting up information services under Unix would sell shells or write their
own BBS type interface) want to:
1. spend mucho cash on a new server capable of supporting 256
simultaneous users.
2. spend money on the terminal server+modems
3. spend money on MajorBBS for Unix
4. learn to administrate a Unix system
5. install cnews/tin/elm/etc
6. hack the source coded for the above so that you can't run a shell
or arbitrary programs (/bin/chsh). (MajorBBS for DOS requires
no programming ability whatsoever to run it).
If I were a DOS user (yipes. :)) I wouldn't spend that money to learn a new
OS and learn how to code.
--
Ed
Segmentation fault
> Folks, AKCS is available *in source form* from our FTP site, and for
> evaluation use it is FREE. We do ask for a license fee if you're going to
> use it in commercial applications (ie: on a system you take money for access
> to) but we're talking about $500 there *and you have source*.
What hardware/OS is it being developed on?
--
Ed
Steve Manes
: Before doing an SCO version, take a good look at the price of the operating
: software based on 8 users. Your software is good, but not worth almost
: double the price of SCO UNIX.
SCO isn't worth its price either.
Jim Hribnak
: > Galacticomm Introduces The Major BBS for UNIX
: > . . .
: >
: > The Major BBS for UNIX will initially support two operating systems - BSD/386
: > 1.1 for the PC architecture and Solaris 2.3 for Sun SPARC platforms.
: > Galacticomm will add other operating systems as market demand and development
: > resources allow, according to Brinker.
: This appears to a bit short-sighted. I would have expected them to port it
: to more popular Intel-based Unixes like Linux, BSDI, or SCO first.
: > . . .
It was also ported to BSDI/386 v1.1 Maybe Ken just forgot to mention
that :)
Jim Hribnak Nucleus Information Service
VP Operations, Atomic Data Communications 55 Lines (403)531-9353 (2400)
----------------------------------------- (403)531-9366 (19200)
hri...@nucleus.com (403)249-9009 (voice)
Keith Ford
>evaluation use it is FREE. We do ask for a license fee if you're going to
>use it in commercial applications (ie: on a system you take money for access
>to) but we're talking about $500 there *and you have source*.
What is AKCS? How many dial-up lines will it support? How is it
supported? Do you offer a developement kit? Are there any add-ons
available for it? What video support does it offer beyond ASCII?
--
Keith Ford <sy...@ingr.com> Voice/Fax/BBS: (205)730-1413/1110/8786
Micro Magic / Here there be dragons...
warr...@news.delphi.com
>>: For most DOS users the price might seem a little expensive. We are really
>>: gearing this for those people already running UNIX that need a solution, as
>>: well as those individuals who need a high-end solution (above the 256
>>: concurrent user limit). If you are a DOS user and have no reason to switch,
>>: we recommend you stay where you are. UNIX is a really nice operating system
>>: when it comes to power, flexibility and connectivity... but it isn't for
>>: everyone.
>>Translation:
>>We'll charge what the market can/will bear since we know that unix people
>>are used to paying through the nose for unix versions of DOS software, even
>>when there is less functionality.
>>Too bad there isn't a group of hackers to write a nice BBS package for
>>linux with typical DOS bbs features. They'd make a hell of a lot of money
>>for a reasonably priced product.
>What is wrong with Uniboard? $200 for 64 user version last I checked.
>And it has performed well here. I use it for a familer frontend for a
>Public Access Internet. Helps for people who have "shell shock"
>translation: "people who beleive the idiots that suggest Unix can only be
>used by a rocket scientist".
Would you know where I could get information about Uniboard? I'm
with the Northwest Indiana Internet Access Committee, a group that wants
to set up a public Internet service at low cost. Uniboard sounds just
like what we need. (We have several hackers on the committee to tweak
any board that falls into our hands...)
Warren Eckels
warren...@delphi.com
Karl Denninger
Keith Ford <kef...@b8.b8.ingr.com> wrote:
>>Folks, AKCS is available *in source form* from our FTP site, and for
>>evaluation use it is FREE. We do ask for a license fee if you're going to
>>use it in commercial applications (ie: on a system you take money for access
>>to) but we're talking about $500 there *and you have source*.
>
>What is AKCS?
A Unix-based BBS which is extremely configurable and flexible.
> How many dial-up lines will it support?
As many as your machine has the ability to carry.
> How is it
>supported?
We do some support on it at this point, but not too much. Its been a stable
code base for a long time.
> Do you offer a developement kit?
Use the source Luke.
> Are there any add-ons
>available for it?
You can call out to ANYTHING from the command levels of the package.
What video support does it offer beyond ASCII?
At present, little, but I have actually seen NAPLPS running on it (some
folks are insane ;-)
Karl Denninger
System V based, but it should run on nearly anything POSIX-ish with minor
changes.
Steve Manes
: Modified, of course, so that a user can't do a shell. Now...why would any DOS
: user (which would be the most obvious selling point for MajorBBS...most people
: setting up information services under Unix would sell shells or write their
: own BBS type interface) want to:
Galacticomm/Unix may be an obscene amount of money for a hobbyist sysop to
pay but it's a drop in the bucket for big companies which don't blink an eye
at spending that much PER USER for a database license or a quarter million
bucks to buy a brokerage program outright (I've seen both). Whether or not
it offers any add'l functionality, as the individual from Galacticomm said,
hobbyist sysops aren't their target market with this new product.
Jeff Breitner
: This appears to a bit short-sighted. I would have expected them to port it
: to more popular Intel-based Unixes like Linux, BSDI, or SCO first.
Yep. Especially when they've been in bed with Novell so long one would
think they'd opt for Univel. Unixware supports everything they've used
as marketing points for the DOS version, including btrieve. *AND*
authorized Novell distributors are literally giving it away these days.
: This seems wrong. The eight-user MS-DOS version sells for about $850. Why
: would someone pay that much more just for the "advantage" of running on
: Unix?
I'd be willing to pay it for the sanity of getting out of DOS. The Major
pushes the limits and manages to get around some of the petty nuances
of DOS, but I'm not completely convinced that it's the best way to run
a large BBS system.
My concern is that I hope they managed to distribute some semblace of
code so you might have a fighting chance of making your system look
different from the multitudes out there.
--
Gateway Communications Inc. | If I were Garth Brooks, I'd be really
313-291-2666 (voice) | rich right now. But then I'd have to
313-291-4298 (FAX) | wear a cowboy hat. Naaaaah.
313-291-5571 (Data) |
Segmentation fault
> bucks to buy a brokerage program outright (I've seen both). Whether or not
> it offers any add'l functionality, as the individual from Galacticomm said,
> hobbyist sysops aren't their target market with this new product.
Oh well...I'm not into the big company way-of-thinking ... I honestly didn't
think that anybody / anything would spend *that much money* on something that
they could get somebody in-house to write themselves, or get for free/cheaper.
I've been shielded from beauracray too long.
--
Ed
DarkStar
> Segmentation fault (etho...@nyx10.cs.du.edu) wrote:
> : Modified, of course, so that a user can't do a shell. Now...why would any
> : user (which would be the most obvious selling point for MajorBBS...most peo
> -------- snip, snip --------------------------------
>
> Galacticomm/Unix may be an obscene amount of money for a hobbyist sysop to
> pay but it's a drop in the bucket for big companies which don't blink an eye
> at spending that much PER USER for a database license or a quarter million
> bucks to buy a brokerage program outright (I've seen both). Whether or not
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Steve Manes ma...@magpie.com
Hear, hear! Bear in mind that many of the readers here are used to
shareware BBS, not commercial BBS. In that vein, I will graciously offer
to be a beta test site, in exchange for a free registered version of the
software *grin*
--
DarkStar <dark...@fred.com> wrote this tripe.
Radio Free Fredbox -- +1 907 344 8437 -- Where 'life' is a four letter word.
Charles Ewen MacMillan
Paul Hoffman <phof...@proper.com> wrote:
>In article <33de7i$e...@munich.gcomm.com>, k...@munich.gcomm.com (Ken Maier) wrote:
>
>> Galacticomm Introduces The Major BBS for UNIX
>> . . .
>>
>> The Major BBS for UNIX will initially support two operating systems - BSD/386
>> 1.1 for the PC architecture and Solaris 2.3 for Sun SPARC platforms.
>> Galacticomm will add other operating systems as market demand and development
>> resources allow, according to Brinker.
>
>to more popular Intel-based Unixes like Linux, BSDI, or SCO first.
>
The popularity of non-Intel hardware on the internet though is far in
excess of that off of the same.
The most popular OS for instance, for a net provider is probably still
SunOS though BSDI is gaining fast.
I think that what is happening here is that they are attempting to push
into the relatively vacant (aside from UniBoard and TeamMate) Unix
BBS market as if it can be approached in the same fashion as the PC
arena, which is unlikely.
I would not even consider purchasing a product at that price unless I
either recieved source code, or had a guarantee that someone could
perform the code level customizations that my needs would require.
That is why I am writing my own BBS software I suppose.
>> The Major BBS for UNIX will also include a windowing interface for Sysops to
>> perform maintenance while the system is running - either locally or remotely
>> over a network. It is expected to ship in December with a suggested retail
>> price of $2,995 for an eight-user license.
>
>This seems wrong. The eight-user MS-DOS version sells for about $850. Why
>would someone pay that much more just for the "advantage" of running on
>Unix?
>
Because every commercial product for UNIX costs more than its MSDOS
equivalent. :)
--
Charles Ewen MacMillan | Tezcat.COM - Wicker Park
<il...@tezcat.com> | Offering Internet Access
Modem: 312-850-0112/0117| Via Interactive UNIX to
Voice: 312-850-0181 | the Chicago Area.
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Ken Maier
>
>Hear, hear! Bear in mind that many of the readers here are used to
>shareware BBS, not commercial BBS. In that vein, I will graciously offer
>to be a beta test site, in exchange for a free registered version of the
>software *grin*
If you interested in being a beta site, then please send your complete
postal address, fax/phone to 'ma...@gcomm.com'. We will be sending
out more information on the beta program towards the end of September.
Aris Stathakis
>What is wrong with Uniboard? $200 for 64 user version last I checked.
>And it has performed well here. I use it for a familer frontend for a
>Public Access Internet. Helps for people who have "shell shock"
>translation: "people who beleive the idiots that suggest Unix can only be
>used by a rocket scientist".
Agreed. UniBoard is great. Though source is not provided, it has been written
to be very 'OPEN'. I've got ftp/telnet/irc/gopher/www/ping etc incorporated
into the BBS without any problems at all.
For more info e-mail pi...@nervous.com
Aris
--
Aris Stathakis Tel: +27 11 887 1040 Snail Mail:
SCO ACE / Novell CNE Fax: +27 11 887 5158 P.O. Box 781228
M&PD (Pty) Ltd. Fax: +27 11 887 5158 Sandton, 2146
E-Mail: ar...@mpd.co.za Cell:+27 83 601 0206 R.S.A.
Aris Stathakis
>>What is wrong with Uniboard? $200 for 64 user version last I checked.
>>And it has performed well here. I use it for a familer frontend for a
>>Public Access Internet. Helps for people who have "shell shock"
>>translation: "people who beleive the idiots that suggest Unix can only be
>>used by a rocket scientist".
>>
>OK, I'll bite..Where do we find 'Uniboard' ?
ftp.wariat.org:/pub/uniboard (Binaies for Sun Sparc, Linux, and COFF compatible
systems)
Aris Stathakis
>Great Wizard of SoCal (g...@netcom.com) wrote:
>: Before doing an SCO version, take a good look at the price of the operating
>: software based on 8 users. Your software is good, but not worth almost
>: double the price of SCO UNIX.
>SCO isn't worth its price either.
>
Yes it is. Maybe not for a BBSer or a hobbyist - but for the corporate user
it is certainly worth it.
Aris
Robb Ballard
: Galacticomm/Unix may be an obscene amount of money for a hobbyist sysop to
: pay but it's a drop in the bucket for big companies which don't blink an eye
: at spending that much PER USER for a database license or a quarter million
: bucks to buy a brokerage program outright (I've seen both). Whether or not
: it offers any add'l functionality, as the individual from Galacticomm said,
: hobbyist sysops aren't their target market with this new product.
:
I would think that the "big companies" would laugh at this and have their
own programmers write a system that specifically meets their needs. Then
again, some people are just ignorant enough to pay $3k for it... Not here.
-Robb
--
_ __ __ _ _
' ) ) / / / ) // // / ro...@sunnet.chotel.com
/--' ____/___/__ /--< __. // // __. __ __/ Choice Hotels International
/ \_(_) /_) /_) /___/_(_/|_</_</_(_/|_/ (_(_/_ Phoenix, Arizona
"Opinions contained herein are mine, but for a price they can be yours too."
Ken Maier
>
> The popularity of non-Intel hardware on the internet though is far in
> excess of that off of the same.
>
> The most popular OS for instance, for a net provider is probably still
> SunOS though BSDI is gaining fast.
I'd tend to agree that SunOS is quite popular. Sun doesn't ship any
systems with SunOS anymore and Solaris is their OS of choice for
the Intel and SPARC line. What's nice is that Solaris will also be supported
on the PowerPC architecture... and, something I just learned yesterday, Cray
will be shipping their new SPARC Superserver (I've forgotten the exact name)
with Solaris too. (This is the new system that has 64 SPARC's in it) (Hmmm...
POV would probably run *really* nice on that... <grin>)
If anyone has an OS they'd like to see, please let us know.
-ken
Ken Maier
Galacticomm, Inc.
UNIX Technology Division
Andrew Deckowitz
>-ken
Linux. Without a doubt. At $3k for 8 lines, a guy's gotta save money
SOMEWHERE... and with no source availability it's not gonna work unless
YOU (Galacticom) port it.
But for the featureset described, there's actually very little chance I'd
buy Major/Unix, with so many equivalent programs available free (WITH
source) on platforms like FreeBSD and Linux.
--
Andy Deckowitz: andy...@mcs.com (or andy...@aol.com) {$I std.disclaimer}
Network Administrator, Direct Marketing Technology: andyd%d...@mcimail.com
The Crystal Wind is the Storm, and the Storm is Data, and the Data is Life
Finger or <a href="http://www.mcs.com/~andydeck">Click here</a> for Geek Code
ObB5: Fasten, then zip... you?
Leon Bair
Gcomm can spread the cost of development over the number of copies
they sell. For a company to develop a BBS themselves, for a one copy
use only, could be very expensive. Figure $100,000 to $150,000 per
year for one programmer (no, this is not just salary but includes office space,
telephone, health insurance, life insurance, water, electricity, etc.).
Also, figure that the developer would be pulled from a program that
could be making the company money, and your money figure goes up.
Then there is support, and addition of new features over the life of the
BBS. This would be an ongoing cost (mo' money ;) ).
No, it's much cheaper to spend a few thousand buying the BBS from
a company such a Gcomm, then to write our own. In this way, Gcomm
has the financial burden of development, maintenance, and feature
enhancements.
Regards,
dun...@ac.dal.ca
> Ken Maier (k...@munich.gcomm.com) wrote:
>
> : >> over a network. It is expected to ship in December with a suggested retail
> : >> price of $2,995 for an eight-user license.
> That is just salespeak for "hey, we've got 'em where we want 'em. Since there
> isn't any competition, we're going to stick it to them like Apple does
> with Mac prices."
>
> Of *course* you are gearing a UNIX-based bbs at people running UNIX. You
> don't create a UNIX-based piece of software for someone running OS/2.
>
> If you really want to have your product take off, don't price gouge.
So you think Galacticomm should charge less. I suppose you have
also been battling with your employer lately trying to get them
to reduce your salary. Can't have this salary gouging.
> John 'Vlad' Adams ** Network Administrator, NADEP Pensacola FL
> Internet: jma...@freenet.tlh.fl.us *or* ada...@narfpns.navy.mil
> The Beachside BBS +1.904.492.2305 V.34/HST/FAX 1:3612/57@fidonet
Umm.... How about a lesson in economics. If they charge too little
(i.e. - below the cost of production) they go out of business. If
they charge too much and nobody buys the product, they go out of
business. If they produce products that nobody wants they go out of
business. This is part of a system called capitalism.
Galacticomm is a business. Its' job is to make the greatest profit
possible from the product it sells. Since it is not a monopoly it
cannot price gouge.
I always find it interesting that those who seem most critical
of software prices and company profits are those that work
inside educational or governmental institutions. They, of course,
don't have to worry about making a profit.
Alan Hurshman
dun...@ac.dal.ca
Steve Manes
: In <Cv5tG...@magpie.com> ma...@magpie.com (Steve Manes) writes:
: >SCO isn't worth its price either.
: Yes it is. Maybe not for a BBSer or a hobbyist - but for the corporate user
: it is certainly worth it.
Well, speaking as someone who's been working with and developing for SCO
since 1985 and who technically maintains over 25 SCO Xenix and Unix sites
around the country for a large broadcasting corporation, I say it ain't.
SCO's compilers are buggy and dated... so is its TCP (and it's slow)... the
general performance of SCO Unix/ODT grinds, thanks probably to the bloated
C2 security crap lingering in there that nobody but SCO's government sales
people cares about... the MMDF mail agent is an unwieldy, byzantine dinosaur
that even SCO's MMDF wizards admit to not completely understanding, speaking
of which... SCO tech support is almost an oxymoron, even if you pay their
outrageous support fees... and the latest version of SCO is almost four
years behind the current Unix release version. As for its being worth the
cost, the unbundled price of a SCO Unix setup with X, software development
and TCP/NFS support is over $3500, and that's the *discounted* price.
Without tech support. For that kind of money and the 486 or Pentium
hardware needed to run it, you might as well go the extra couple of yards
and invest in a low-end Sun or HP box, which will outperform it mightily.
Or Linux or BSD1.1 or Univel.
Steve Manes
: I would think that the "big companies" would laugh at this and have their
: own programmers write a system that specifically meets their needs. Then
: again, some people are just ignorant enough to pay $3k for it... Not here.
How many man-hours do you think goes into designing, coding, debugging and
documenting a BBS program, even a brain-dead one?
Mark Morley
: Robb Ballard (ro...@sonny.chotel.com) wrote:
: : I would think that the "big companies" would laugh at this and have their
: : own programmers write a system that specifically meets their needs. Then
: : again, some people are just ignorant enough to pay $3k for it... Not here.
: How many man-hours do you think goes into designing, coding, debugging and
: documenting a BBS program, even a brain-dead one?
Not as much as some people think. I wrote a complete UNIX BBS package
from scratch in 2 months in my spare time. We now operate a very
successful internet BBS running this software.
My software is actually a full blown programming language. I created the
language and wrote the BBS in that language in the 2 months. We could now
whip out a completely different BBS (look and feel wise) in that same
language in a couple of weeks.
The programming language itself supports ANSI, RIP, etc. Includes a full
screen text editor, forms, hypertext help, etc. Has built in internet
apps and can still use standard UNIX apps and so on. Very secure too.
Our users love the system and get full internet access (including SLIP,
PPP, etc). We can add/modify features on a moments notice (without even
shutting down the system).
The code for the language itself is in C. We started with a Linux box.
After 600 users we upgraded to a Sparcstation. Porting the code to SunOS
took about 10 minutes. The BBS software itself needed no porting
whatsoever. I suspect I could recompile the language on pretty well any
BSD-ish system with no troubles.
Not bad for a small company (3 guys - only one programmer) with $0 to
spend (at the time). Any company with a few bucks around should be able to
build something like this in much less time (for less than 3K).
Pay 3K for a UNIX BBS? I don't think so... Even though we could afford
it now, I doubt MBBS/Unix could offer us the flexibility/power/features of our
own software.
Mark
PS: Before you ask, our software is not available. I am working on a DOS
version of the programming language though. It will be shareware and
will have full internet support.
Tryst
: >What is wrong with Uniboard? $200 for 64 user version last I checked.
Nice price :-)
: >And it has performed well here. I use it for a familer frontend for a
: >Public Access Internet. Helps for people who have "shell shock"
: >translation: "people who beleive the idiots that suggest Unix can only be
: >used by a rocket scientist".
I like this guy :-)
: Agreed. UniBoard is great. Though source is not provided, it has been written
: to be very 'OPEN'. I've got ftp/telnet/irc/gopher/www/ping etc incorporated
: into the BBS without any problems at all.
: For more info e-mail pi...@nervous.com
Has anyone tried using uniboard from a Linux box?
Also, can it function as a front-end for direct dial-ins, as well as
an internet front-end? I want both on my system :-)
: Aris
Jeff Breitner
: Well, speaking as someone who's been working with and developing for SCO
: since 1985 and who technically maintains over 25 SCO Xenix and Unix sites
: around the country for a large broadcasting corporation, I say it ain't.
: SCO's compilers are buggy and dated... so is its TCP (and it's slow).
That there is the falling of Consensys Unix as well. The TCP *barely*
runs at all and forget trying to run it with say IrcII clients. You'll
have a panicfest.
: of which... SCO tech support is almost an oxymoron, even if you pay their
: outrageous support fees... and the latest version of SCO is almost four
: years behind the current Unix release version. As for its being worth the
Same with Consensys. They were more than willing to take our money, but
when it came time to support their product, they might as well not even
answered the phone. And their support via email was fab though, only
took them 11 days to reply.
--
Alliance Broadcasting Motown | Not just another stupid radio station. Well
810-799-0605 | yeah, it is. Sorry.
Segmentation fault
> bucks to buy a brokerage program outright (I've seen both). Whether or not
> it offers any add'l functionality, as the individual from Galacticomm said,
> hobbyist sysops aren't their target market with this new product.
Oh well...I'm not into the big company way-of-thinking ... I honestly didn't
think that anybody / anything would spend *that much money* on something that
they could get somebody in-house to write themselves, or get for free/cheaper.
I've been shielded from beauracray too long.
--
Ed
--
|Fidonet: Segmentation fault 1:2/0
|Internet: Segmentat...@f0.n2.z1.fidonet.org
|
| Standard disclaimer: The views of this user are strictly his own.
March Hare
:
:I always find it interesting that those who seem most critical
:of software prices and company profits are those that work
:inside educational or governmental institutions. They, of course,
:don't have to worry about making a profit.
No, they don't have to worry about making a profit, but in the U.S. there
is always increasing pressure to stay within budget, esp. in govt. and
govt. affiliated organizations. Some govt. agencies have finally figured
out that money doesn't grow on trees. While I don't agree with many of
the decisions stemming from this, it's at least comforting that some
thought beyond how much to overspend on this and that is happening.
John
----
C:\> win
Bad command or file name
C:\> lose
Loading Microsoft Windows...
Steve Manes
: Steve Manes (ma...@magpie.com) wrote:
: : Robb Ballard (ro...@sonny.chotel.com) wrote:
: : : I would think that the "big companies" would laugh at this and have their
: : : own programmers write a system that specifically meets their needs. Then
: : : again, some people are just ignorant enough to pay $3k for it... Not here.
: : How many man-hours do you think goes into designing, coding, debugging and
: : documenting a BBS program, even a brain-dead one?
: Not as much as some people think. I wrote a complete UNIX BBS package
: from scratch in 2 months in my spare time. We now operate a very
: successful internet BBS running this software.
: Not bad for a small company (3 guys - only one programmer) with $0 to
: spend (at the time). Any company with a few bucks around should be able to
: build something like this in much less time (for less than 3K).
: Pay 3K for a UNIX BBS? I don't think so... Even though we could afford
: it now, I doubt MBBS/Unix could offer us the flexibility/power/features of our
: own software.
: PS: Before you ask, our software is not available. I am working on a DOS
: version of the programming language though. It will be shareware and
: will have full internet support.
I wasn't asking. I also wrote a Unix BBS called Magpie, which has the
distinction of being the first Shareware Unix BBS as well as the first
marketed, tree-structured BBS for any OS as well as the first BBS to be
widely adopted for educational use. I won't sell its other "firsts" because
they're irrelevant to the issue. I know that I have several thousand hours
invested in mine. Suffice to say, even if it took you only two months to
write your BBS, that's *at least* $15,000 in code jockey fees in the real
world. So what are you disputing, or were you just looking for a convenient
opportunity to brag about your effort?
Jeff Skaletsky
>In article <33ud8p$5...@xochi.tezcat.com> il...@tezcat.com (Charles Ewen MacMillan) writes:
>> The most popular OS for instance, for a net provider is probably still
>> SunOS though BSDI is gaining fast.
>I'd tend to agree that SunOS is quite popular. Sun doesn't ship any
>systems with SunOS anymore and Solaris is their OS of choice for
>the Intel and SPARC line. What's nice is that Solaris will also be supported
>on the PowerPC architecture
SunOS version 4.1.3_U1 (Solaris 1.1.1B) does indeed stil ship, and even
runs on the SPARCstation 20 and SPARCstation 5. The only Sun machines
that will not run 4.1.3_U1 are the multiprocessor versions of the
10 and 20, the high performance graphics-configured versions of the 10 and 20
(SX/ZX, don't remember whether the TGX will), and all of the SPARCservers,
1000 and 2000.
It is true that Solaris 2.x only is available from SunSoft on the Intel,
and soon the PowerPC architectures. I am hearing very good things
about the PowerPC port, too.
-Jeff Skaletsky
--
Jeff Skaletsky N6TJO Quake Public Access
modems: (818)362-6092 367-2142 Sylmar, CA 91342
Larry Snyder
> Has anyone tried using uniboard from a Linux box?
> Also, can it function as a front-end for direct dial-ins, as well as
> an internet front-end? I want both on my system :-)
While we don't run Linux, we do run Uniboard here, and it supports
our modem pool as well as the leased line.