Mill patents finally coming out

[Ivan Godard]

The USPTO has done final allowance of some of the Mill patents. It's
been 2-3 years, reasonably typical for such filings.

Allowance is the last examination step, lacking only fees and paperwork
for issuance which we expect soon after the allowances. We will add a
section to our web site with the actual patent texts as they issue.
Those of you of the masochistic persuasion can read them there.

The first three out are our MIL-001 (split-stream encoding), MIL-004
(the Belt), and MIL-011 (cache valid bits). So far all have been allowed
essentially as filed, without rejecting any claims due to prior art.

[Rick C. Hodgin]

Ivan Godard wrote:
> The USPTO has done final allowance of some of the Mill patents.

You would store up treasure for yourself in Heaven if you gave
your life to Jesus Christ, and gave the information away for free,
rather than receiving remuneration for it. When you receive Earthly
reward for your labor, you receive all of your reward. When you
share what you've been given (knowledge, experience, the
opportunity to create, etc.), and receive no Earthly reward, then
the Lord rewards you for service to Him in Heaven.

Reward received here fades with use and ultimately perishes.
Reward received in Heaven does not fade with use, never diminishes,
and is an ongoing blessing received, and to be used and given.

Set your sights on eternity, Ivan. Consider your real future, and move
toward eternal gain.

Best regards,
Rick C. Hodgin

[Chris M. Thomasson]

On 10/24/2016 4:06 PM, Rick C. Hodgin wrote:
> Ivan Godard wrote:
>> The USPTO has done final allowance of some of the Mill patents.
>
> You would store up treasure for yourself in Heaven if you gave
> your life to Jesus Christ, and gave the information away for free,
> rather than receiving remuneration for it.

[...]

Hah! Rick wants Mill processors to be handed our for free. What a total
joke!

;^)

[Chris M. Thomasson]

Good for you. I hope you, your company, all of its employees and
volunteers end up making a lot of money to try to design even better
processors in the future Ivan!

Great job.

:^)

[Rick C. Hodgin]

I want Ivan to receive compensation for his gifts that will never be
lost, never wear out, but will endure forever.

[Chris M. Thomasson]

Face it, you want a Mill processor: For Free!

lol.

[Rick C. Hodgin]

Chris M. Thomasson wrote:
> Face it, you want a Mill processor: For Free!

I expect products to be sold because it costs money for
manufacturing and distribution. The part Ivan should give away
is the design so that others could contribute their expertise to it.

The products we make together are better than the ones we make
in isolation. That statement is nearly always true, no matter how
smart and capable the individual is, or individuals are, who would
work on the project in a small group.

God put us together with holes in our skill sets so we would all
come together and help each other out. He wants us helping
one another to prosper and increase, and doing so together continually.

[Chris M. Thomasson]

On 10/24/2016 4:56 PM, Rick C. Hodgin wrote:
> Chris M. Thomasson wrote:
>> Face it, you want a Mill processor: For Free!
>
> I expect products to be sold because it costs money for
> manufacturing and distribution.

Wow... That is only two aspects, manufacturing and distribution, out of
many. Moron.

> The part Ivan should give away
> is the design so that others could contribute their expertise to it.

Wow! You should apply for a job. Just ask Ivan, and see what he says. Wow.

Oh yeah.... You want it for free.

>
> The products we make together are better than the ones we make
> in isolation. That statement is nearly always true, no matter how
> smart and capable the individual is, or individuals are, who would
> work on the project in a small group.

Are you some sort of undercover hardcore communist hive mind? If you
want to work on the Mill, apply for a job: DAMN IT!

>
> God put us together with holes in our skill sets so we would all
> come together and help each other out. He wants us helping
> one another to prosper and increase, and doing so together continually.

Moron! =^O

[Ivan Godard]

On 10/24/2016 4:06 PM, Rick C. Hodgin wrote:
> Ivan Godard wrote:
>> The USPTO has done final allowance of some of the Mill patents.

<snip>

> Best regards,
> Rick C. Hodgin
>

Please hijack someone else's post if you must at all. Thou shalt not
steal, remember.

[Rick C. Hodgin]

Chris M. Thomasson wrote:
> Rick C. Hodgin wrote:
> > Chris M. Thomasson wrote:
> > > Face it, you want a Mill processor: For Free!
> > I expect products to be sold because it costs money for
> > manufacturing and distribution.
>
> Wow... That is only two aspects, manufacturing and distribution,
> out of many.

I have tried to explain to you before that I look at the cost of
manufacturing as a bottom line number per unit. I don't try
and apply accounting details to the general concepts here,
but am teaching the big picture.

> Moron

You dip very quickly into name calling and insults, Chris.
Does it help your cause?

[Ivan Godard]

On 10/24/2016 5:03 PM, Chris M. Thomasson wrote:
> On 10/24/2016 4:56 PM, Rick C. Hodgin wrote:
>> Chris M. Thomasson wrote:
>>> Face it, you want a Mill processor: For Free!
>>
>> I expect products to be sold because it costs money for
>> manufacturing and distribution.
>
> Wow... That is only two aspects, manufacturing and distribution, out of
> many. Moron.
>
>
>> The part Ivan should give away
>> is the design so that others could contribute their expertise to it.
>
> Wow! You should apply for a job. Just ask Ivan, and see what he says. Wow.
>

I have lived for 13 years without a paycheck to make the Mill real. I
would respect any believer who went 13 years without a paycheck to
devote full time to spreading his faith.

We welcome those who wish to contribute their expertise. However, Mr.
Hodgin is not welcome on the Mill team. Not for his views (some of our
team are even more Christian than he is, hard as that may be to
believe), nor for his skills, which seem acceptable, but because he
attacks others without provocation, and I don't want vandals in the project.

[George Neuner]

On Mon, 24 Oct 2016 15:42:45 -0700, Ivan Godard
<iv...@millcomputing.com> wrote:

>The USPTO has done final allowance of some of the Mill patents.

> :

>The first three out are our MIL-001 (split-stream encoding), MIL-004
>(the Belt), and MIL-011 (cache valid bits).

Congratulations!

>So far all have been allowed essentially as filed, without rejecting any

>caims due to prior art.

Shh! Don't jinx it.

George

[Chris M. Thomasson]

And that's the sad part about it. IMO, Rick has a great skill set to
offer: I think he could be a good asset to the Mill team. But, he seems
adamant about destroying himself: Damn.

So sad.

[Rick C. Hodgin]

On Tuesday, October 25, 2016 at 12:55:09 AM UTC-4, Chris M. Thomasson wrote:
> And that's the sad part about it. IMO, Rick has a great skill set to
> offer: I think he could be a good asset to the Mill team. But, he seems
> adamant about destroying himself: Damn.
>
> So sad.

How do I teach you that there is an enemy in this world preying upon our
flesh in such a way that the enemy twists everything around so that up is
down, down is up, right is wrong, and wrong is right?

How do I teach you that there is a fundamental truth that exists and is
solid? That it is built upon the teachings of Jesus Christ, and upon He
Himself as the foundation of that truth?

How do I teach you that sin exists, that sin has eternal consequences,
that right now you are on a path to a place of unending fire, and that
you do not need to go there because Jesus has already made a way out of
that end?

How do I teach you that in order to have eternal life, and a restoration
of all that was lost by the enemy's attack and intrusion into the great
billions of people who have lived, and are currently living, you must
come to Jesus, acknowledge your sin, ask forgiveness, and be saved?

How do I teach you that you are loved so much that God was willing to
step out of Heaven, put on a flesh body, live as one of us, and take
death upon Himself at the cross, dying in agony, but paying the ultimate
price in Hell where God the Father poured out full strength His wrath
against sin upon His own Son, such that we would then be set free from
our due judgment and punishment for sin?

How do I teach you that without receiving His free gift of salvation, that
your sin debt remains upon you and you will pay that same price in Hell,
but whereas He was God and was able to resurrect Himself, you will not,
that once you enter into Hell that will be your entire existence forever?

How do I teach you that I care enough about you to warn you about these
things BEFORE the day of your death, so that you can repent and be saved?

How do I teach you about eternity? And about real love, Chris, the kind
of love that grabs hold of you unto eternal life? How do I teach you of
His Great Love for you?

[wolfgang kern]

Rick C. Hodgin posted shit again.

Please do yourself and all of us a favour and shut up.
__
wolfgang

[Bruce Hoult]

On Tuesday, October 25, 2016 at 8:33:25 PM UTC+3, wolfgang kern wrote:
> Rick C. Hodgin posted shit again.
>
> Please do yourself and all of us a favour and shut up.

Getting tempted to use much stronger words that that....

[Ivan Godard]

My guess it's OCD. His behavior is obviously counterproductive to any
real proselytizing motive, so it can't be from actual belief. Yet it's
not the Tourette's sort of troll spam either.

A shame really; Christianity actually has much to recommend it, but so
many, including him, give it a bad name.

Islam has the same problem.

[Rick C. Hodgin]

Ivan Godard wrote:
> My guess it's OCD. His behavior is obviously counterproductive
> to any real proselytizing motive, so it can't be from actual belief.

Apart from the fact that my posts are intrusive to the comp.arch
community, what part of my teaching do you take exception to
from a Biblical perspective. We are commanded to go forth and
teach all nations.

I do not just teach here. I teach where I am. I happen to love
hardware design and have long term interests in this field. I am
also a Christian, so all of my hardware endeavors will be of
those foundations.

The Bible teaches about Hell. It is forever. There is no coming
back from that. And that means something to me because I
care about people.

> Yet it's not the Tourette's sort of troll spam either.

I am not a troll. I do my best to teach, and to correct false
teachings and comments about Jesus Christ.

> A shame really; Christianity actually has much to recommend it,
> but so many, including him, give it a bad name.

Jesus taught the world would hate true disciples, that He came not
to bring peace but a sword, to divide homes and people.

The true message of the cross, of Christ's shed blood for sin, is
divisive no matter how delicately the bearer tries to word it.
And there really are evil spirits at work against people to muddy
their emotion, reason, feelings, etc., with regards to the teachings
which can lead a person to repentance, forgiveness, and eternal
life.

I don't want anyone to go to Hell. That is why I teach these things.

[Bruce Hoult]

On Wednesday, October 26, 2016 at 2:00:10 AM UTC+3, Rick C. Hodgin wrote:
> Apart from the fact that my posts are intrusive to the comp.arch
> community,

That is *quite* enough.

> I don't want anyone to go to Hell. That is why I teach these things.

Maybe, but more and more every day, we'd like you to.

[Rick C. Hodgin]

Bruce, I respect you. But there are some things you don't know enough
about, and I do. I desire to try to teach you these things so you too
can know them, and prepare for them.

It breaks my heart to consider that so many people will be lost because
they would not be saved. I want to stand guilt-free before God so that
when He asks me, "Rick, did you warn the people in your life?" I can
answer honestly, "Yes, Lord. I did."

I want to have that witness in my life, and I want it to be from the
place of love where I reach out to everybody teaching them about sin,
about the day of coming judgment when each of us will give an account
of our lives and will be judged for the things we've done in them.

What have you done in your life? The Bible teaches that even our idle
words are recorded, as well as the intents of our heart. Did we help
the old lady across the street to be kind to her? Or because we were
trying to impress the girl that was watching us? It's all being
recorded, and it is being recorded without error.

There is complete forgiveness of all our wrongdoing in Jesus Christ.
It's not just a confession as to a priest or a confidant, but when you
come to Jesus and ask forgiveness, honestly within your heart desiring
to repent, He forgives you. And when you are forgiven of sin a
phenomenal weight is lifted from your life, such that you can feel the
change. It's literally a crushing that's lifted, and it changes all
things from that day forward.

I would want every person world-wide to come to this experience, to
come to Jesus Christ and ask forgiveness and see their life change as
mine has, to the point where all things are made new, and all things
are seen under new light.

The reason my teachings seem so crazy to you and others is because
there's an active enemy at work in this world teaching alternate ways.
His plans are to deceive people into Hell, but God's plans are to
guide us to forgiveness and eternal life through His Son.

Jesus only has one voice with which to speak: the truth.

Satan can use any other voice he wants because there are a trillion
ways to lie, but only one way to tell the truth.

The voice of Jesus Christ may seem small in this world, but it's only
because Satan has raised so many alternate voices around that, without
purposeful examination, it's difficult to tell them apart. And that's
where the truth-seeker nature comes into play ... when you set your
sights on the truth, God Himself guides you to it, so you can be saved.

I teach you these things because I care about you. Consider my words.
They are not given for nothing. I'm not trolling. There is a real day
of judgment coming, and I would spare every one of you from that fate,
for all who are forgiven in Jesus Christ pass from judgment to life,
and are not judged:

http://biblehub.com/kjv/john/5-24.htm
24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and
believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall
not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

It's His gift to us because of what the enemy's done to us. He still
honors our free will choice to receive or reject Him, but when you
consider what He's offering, and what the alternative is ... it's of
such a tremendous stature in giving that it will bring you to tears.

[Bruce Hoult]

On Wednesday, October 26, 2016 at 3:59:05 PM UTC+3, Rick C. Hodgin wrote:
> Bruce, I respect you. But there are some things you don't know enough
> about, and I do.

So you think. That doesn't mean you are correct.

> What have you done in your life?

I know that you don't know one fucking about it.

There you sit comfortably in Indianapolis, USA. Do you know any single thing about the poverty here in Russia, or in Ukraine, or Romania, or Moldova, or Belarus?

I don't want to get into a virtue pissing match, but I'm going to give you just one small thing: in the last two weeks I've given nearly a thousand dollars to four families I know here who can't afford their heating bills as winter starts. Good honest educated people who through no fault of their own have monthly salaries of maybe $200 to $400, while I sit here next to them with a good job and good salary (by local standards .. I'd get more in London or CA). So don't you fucking lecture me.

You also have no clue what anyone else in this group does in their life. Chances are, a lot of them are more virtuous than you. Plus, they have the immense advantage that they don't dedicate their lives to annoying the shit out of everyone else, unlike you.

[Rick C. Hodgin]

On Wednesday, October 26, 2016 at 9:51:03 AM UTC-4, Bruce Hoult wrote:
> On Wednesday, October 26, 2016 at 3:59:05 PM UTC+3, Rick C. Hodgin wrote:
> > Bruce, I respect you. But there are some things you don't know enough
> > about, and I do.
>
> So you think. That doesn't mean you are correct.
>
> > What have you done in your life?
>

> I know that you don't know one .. about it.

>
> There you sit comfortably in Indianapolis, USA. Do you know any single
> thing about the poverty here in Russia, or in Ukraine, or Romania, or
> Moldova, or Belarus?

I do not know about these things other than what I see on TV. But what
I do know is that the poverty exists because of sin, because of Satan,
because of Satan leading evil people to do evil things to harm people
rather than help people. And I do know that Jesus Christ calls us to
do NONE of those things.

The world provides enough resources and annual products to meet all
people's needs worldwide. The reason why it doesn't is because there
are people who seek self-interests ahead of people-interests, and they
hoard resources for themselves and their interests, rather than reaching
out to help people.

Satan's even soiled the attempts to make this kind of global sharing
look bad, such as communism and socialism failing.

These things are the way they are in this world because of what Satan
has done to us through sin. And the knowledge of I have that I'm
trying to teach you is that there's a way out from it. Jesus Christ
came to set us free from bondage to sin, from this world. He offers
us forgiveness of our sin, and a promise of real hope for the future.
He says "take my yoke upon you and learn of me, for my yoke is easy
and my burden is light, and you will find real rest for your soul."

His yoke is to do what's right, and explicitly under His name, even
when those around you won't. His yoke is to stand up for the truth
even when those around you won't. His yoke is to stand up and teach
the right things even when those around you won't.

He calls us to be His in this world, even when those around us won't.
And when you read about what He teaches ... it's the most loving and
caring way you'd be to the favorite family members you have, and
that's His call for us to be that way to everybody.

> I don't want to get into a virtue pissing match, but I'm going to give
> you just one small thing: in the last two weeks I've given nearly a
> thousand dollars to four families I know here who can't afford their
> heating bills as winter starts. Good honest educated people who through
> no fault of their own have monthly salaries of maybe $200 to $400, while
> I sit here next to them with a good job and good salary (by local

> standards .. I'd get more in London or CA). So don't you .. lecture
> me.

It's wonderful that you are doing those things. It shows you have a
good heart and an honest desire to help. But it's not enough to be a
good person. You have to be forgiven for your sin.

There must be Christians around you that you can go and speak to. I
have read recently that in Russia they can no longer evangelize
legally, but you can go to them and ask questions.

Ask them if what I say is true, that you must be forgiven for your
sin, and that you must be born again to enter in to the Kingdom of God,
that doing good things is not enough no matter how many you do, or how
good they are.

> You also have no clue what anyone else in this group does in their
> life. Chances are, a lot of them are more virtuous than you. Plus,
> they have the immense advantage that they don't dedicate their lives

> to annoying the .. out of everyone else, unlike you.

It's not enough to be good. And it's what I'm trying to teach you. The
same enemy who is responsible for mass poverty, disease, hate, death, war,
is the same one telling you that by doing good things and being good
enough you are okay, possibly even that you will have been good enough
to make it into Heaven. But it's not enough.

You must be forgiven.
You must be born again.
And both of those are free for the asking ... it just requires each person
humbling themselves, admitting they have sinned, and asking forgiveness.

I am a sinner. I have sinned. I still sin despite my best efforts to
not sin. It is the nature of this world we live in. Constant temptation
to sin, constant enemies enticing us to sin, constant teachings which are
in and of sin. They surround us. But Jesus Christ sets us free from
sin's power over us, giving us the ability to not sin, and to recognize
when we do and repent.

It's the best I have to offer you, Bruce. It's free, and it is life-
changing. It aligns with what you recognize as being the right things
to do in life, but it shifts the focus on why we do them away from
simply helping one another to honoring God's request to us that we help
one another. When we do it for Him there is a reward, but when we just
do it for our own purposes there is no reward, etc.

I pray this makes sense to you.

[Rick C. Hodgin]

On Wednesday, October 26, 2016 at 9:51:03 AM UTC-4, Bruce Hoult wrote:

> On Wednesday, October 26, 2016 at 3:59:05 PM UTC+3, Rick C. Hodgin wrote:
> > Bruce, I respect you. But there are some things you don't know enough
> > about, and I do.
> So you think. That doesn't mean you are correct.

True. And I'm not asking you to take my word for it. I'm asking you to
investigate for yourself. To seek the truth in understanding and go and
find out. Talk to local Christians. Pick up a Bible and read it on your
own. Search the matter out fully and truthfully, and you'll find the
extent to which you are in need of a Savior, as we all are, because all
of us have sinned and fall short of the glory of God (Romans 3:23).

It's why we need Jesus. We're all dirty with sin. Jesus cleanses us by
His blood. It's His free gift to us because He loves us.

> > What have you done in your life?

> I know that you don't know one .. about it.

What I meant by this question is what sin have you committed? God looks
to our sin for judgment, just as a judge would look to the crime you
committed, rather than all the good deeds you did the rest of the time.
The good deeds might establish your general character, and result in a
lesser sentence, but ultimately you are convicted for your crime, not
for your good deeds.

[Quadibloc]

On Wednesday, October 26, 2016 at 6:59:05 AM UTC-6, Rick C. Hodgin wrote:

> Bruce, I respect you. But there are some things you don't know enough
> about, and I do. I desire to try to teach you these things so you too
> can know them, and prepare for them.

That your posts are "intrusive to the comp.arch community" is, as you correctly
point out, a minor problem compared to the serious nature of the matters you
are raising.

However, there are additional issues at work here.

The quoted text above would seem to imply that the problem is a lack of
information. That is simply not true. Anyone who is a resident of North America
will have seen, countless times, from childhood onwards, messages like

"Repent, or spend Eternity in the Lake of Fire!"

all over the place.

If you account for the fact that many people are less than impressed by such
messages to the interference of Satan, then you're not going to spend much time
looking at what's wrong with those messages.

Basically, the problem is a lack of credibility.

After all, when Hindus - like, say, the Hare Krishna people - or Muslims
attempt to proselytize, neither the irreligious nor Christians fall over
themselves to follow this new message. The same applies to unorthodox forms of
Christianity - such as the Mormons, who have their own scriptures, or the
Jehovah's Witnesses, who deny the divinity of Christ.

All over the world, people have religious beliefs. They cling to them because
they were trained in them from childhood, but different people in different
countries have different beliefs. And they contradict each other.

Traditional methods of Christian proselytization tend to involve appeals to the
emotions. Be terrified of the horrors of Hell. Be grateful for the sufferings
of Jesus.

In general, people don't make wise decisions when overwhelmed by emotion. They
may instead act out of panic. If someone appeals to the emotions, therefore,
instead of calmly presenting facts, this will automatically lead to their
motives being suspected - by a certain class of people. People in other groups
may well be easily swayed by appeals to emotions; advertisers, politicians, and
evangelists, after all, would stop doing this if it never worked.

As far as I am aware, no one has accomplished the feat of apologetics required
to make Christianity the only credible religious faith (well, almost certainly
along with Judaism)... it relies on "faith".

There's nothing wrong with faith. I have faith that the laws of nature make
sense; that human consciousness is a meaningful phenomenon; that my fellow
human beings are also conscious, and it matters how I treat them. Some people
have faith that there is a meaning and purpose to existence, and that somehow
justice will prevail at the end.

But there is plenty wrong with credulity. And it seems to an outsider that
believing that _this book_ or _that book_ is the Holy Word of God, not to be
questioned... requires credulity, not just faith. And it is those who are
credulous in this way who fly airplanes into buildings.

While it's unfair to hold Christianity responsible for the crimes of Islam,
it's not as if we don't remember that not very long ago, the very authorities
that Christian belief led the faithful to heed encouraged persecution of
minority groups as well; this is not something confined to other religions like
Islam or Hinduism.

It would be the sin of idolatry to worship a thing we know to have been a
statue made by human hands.

And Christianity has had enough influence on our thinking and culture, even the
thinking of those of us who don't call ourselves Christians, that many are
loath to risk committing that sin.

You have asserted what you believe. But you have given us not an iota of a good
reason to consider it worthy of being taken seriously. If one has no reason to
think that something is true, one will not take a leap of faith in its
direction - the step that seems to be needed to hear God's voice is also the
step that can lead to deceiving oneself, after all.

John Savard

[Quadibloc]

On Tuesday, October 25, 2016 at 7:39:10 PM UTC-6, Bruce Hoult wrote:

> Maybe, but more and more every day, we'd like you to.

Only, I should hope, in a figurative sense.

John Savard

[Rick C. Hodgin]

On Wednesday, October 26, 2016 at 10:40:37 AM UTC-4, Quadibloc wrote:
> [snip]

All who will hear the truth will be drawn to Jesus Christ, John. It's
not me or any other believer who will draw them. We teach the message
of Jesus Christ, and ALL who come to Him will do so because they, from
within, drawn by God Himself, will hear the message and know it to be
true.

If you cannot hear His call upon your life, it is because you are nost
being saved.

[Quadibloc]

On Wednesday, October 26, 2016 at 6:59:05 AM UTC-6, Rick C. Hodgin wrote:

> I want to stand guilt-free before God so that
> when He asks me, "Rick, did you warn the people in your life?" I can
> answer honestly, "Yes, Lord. I did."

"Behold, I send you forth as sheep in the midst of wolves: be ye therefore wise
as serpents, and harmless as doves."

"Do not give dogs what is holy; do not throw your pearls before swine. If you
do, they may trample them under their feet, and then turn and tear you to
pieces."

"And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him; Called of God an high priest after the order of Melchisedec.

Of whom we have many things to say, and hard to be uttered, seeing ye are dull of hearing. For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat.

For every one that useth milk is unskilful in the word of righteousness: for he is a babe. But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil."

Yes, the Bible does say

"And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature."

but it does also itself advise using discretion while doing so, a discretion
that appears to me to be absent from your efforts.

John Savard

[Rick C. Hodgin]

On Wednesday, October 26, 2016 at 10:49:39 AM UTC-4, Quadibloc wrote:
> Yes, the Bible does say
>
> "And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature."
>
> but it does also itself advise using discretion while doing so, a discretion
> that appears to me to be absent from your efforts.

He also teaches to incorporate God into everything in your life. And to
teach people and make disciples (a protractive effort). He says on some
have compassion, making a difference, and on others save with fire.

The message of the cross is forgiveness of sin and eternal life, John.

In what contexts in this world is such a message truly inappropriate
when there are people who will not visit a church, will not visit an
online religion forum, will not have the message explained to them by
their commensurately non-Christian family and friends?

At what point does the free offer of forgiveness of sin and eternal
life cross the line into being intrusive?

I sent Ivan Goddard a message the other day asking him if he had a
meeting with him and his colleagues planned to go in and do some work,
and someone showed up interrupting his proceedings and offered everyone
bars and bars of finest purest gold for free ... would such a thing be
an intrusion? A vandalism or theft of their planned meeting?

What Jesus offers is beyond gold. It is eternal life in the paradise
of God with Him forever where He promises to wipe away every tear,
where we will never hunger or thirst or have need of anything.

At what point does it really become an issue to proclaim such a thing
before people, that they too can have it for free just for the asking?

Shall I deny the message to those who would later hear it because there
are some who are offended? What would Jesus say to me when I stood
before Him and asked, "Did you teach people in comp.arch?" and I reply,
"I did, until some of those who rejected the message and were destined
to send themselves to Hell anyway told me to leave." He'd reply, "What
about those who would believe? Did you not labor further for them?"

My reply will be, "Yes, Lord. I did."

-----
It is not me who will convince people. I merely repeat His words and
His teachings. What will convince people is His own drawing of their
inmost selves to the message. I merely speak it. He confirms it. I
merely teach it. He affirms it. And He will use all men and women
like me for these purposes, for these are the purposes He came (to
save men's souls).

There is not much time left, John. The end-times are upon us. These
are the last round of messages you'll hear before the end-times fall
upon the entire world. What's about to be unleashed is unprecedented
in human history. These teachings will be longed for when that time
comes, because they lead out of that Hell on Earth and into the joy
and peace which comes from Jesus Christ alone.

[Chris M. Thomasson]

On 10/26/2016 7:59 AM, Rick C. Hodgin wrote:
[...]

> I sent Ivan Goddard a message the other day asking him if he had a
> meeting with him and his colleagues planned to go in and do some work,
> and someone showed up interrupting his proceedings and offered everyone
> bars and bars of finest purest gold for free ... would such a thing be
> an intrusion? A vandalism or theft of their planned meeting?

[...]

WTF is this shi%?

I cannot speak for Ivan, but if you showed up at a planned meeting of
mine, and started to say "I have pure gold for free from god, blah", I
would call the damn cops, and try to get a restraining order.

Are you threatening to be some sort of weirdo stalker or something?

Yikes!

[Chris M. Thomasson]

Ummm... What is my cause? What are you talking about? I know that
calling us all sinners does that help your cause.

You are very strange!

;^o

[Chris M. Thomasson]

On 10/26/2016 3:09 PM, Chris M. Thomasson wrote:
> On 10/24/2016 5:18 PM, Rick C. Hodgin wrote:

[...]

>> You dip very quickly into name calling and insults, Chris.
>> Does it help your cause?
>
> Ummm... What is my cause? What are you talking about? I know that
> calling us all sinners does that help your cause.

I meant:

I know that calling us all sinners does NOT help your cause.

Sorry about that typo.


> You are very strange!

The reason I write this is because you seem to think I have a sinister
cause to disagree with you.

FACT: You cannot get away with calling everybody sinners and not get a
clash of the titans type of response.

You release the kraken on us, we destroy the kraken on go on with life.

[Bruce Hoult]

Certainly, I believe only in a figurative sense. YMMV.

[Rick C. Hodgin]

On Wednesday, October 26, 2016 at 4:35:17 PM UTC-4, Chris M. Thomasson wrote:
> On 10/26/2016 7:59 AM, Rick C. Hodgin wrote:
> [...]
> > I sent Ivan Goddard a message the other day asking him if he had a
> > meeting with him and his colleagues planned to go in and do some work,
> > and someone showed up interrupting his proceedings and offered everyone
> > bars and bars of finest purest gold for free ... would such a thing be
> > an intrusion? A vandalism or theft of their planned meeting?
> [...]
>

> I cannot speak for Ivan, but if you showed up at a planned meeting of
> mine, and started to say "I have pure gold for free from god, blah", I
> would call the damn cops, and try to get a restraining order.

I didn't say "me" but rather "someone." And it's not specified in the
brief lines I posted, but you would be allowed to test the individual
with the gold to make sure it was legitimate. In this example, it is
a relating to Jesus Christ, so it would be legitimate.

> Are you threatening to be some sort of weirdo stalker or something?
>
> Yikes!

I sometimes conclude that you are not reading and/or understanding my
posts, either that or you are being deliberately contrary to their
intended meaning.

I've tried to tell you before, Chris ... take some time to consider the
things I write before responding. If you investigate my reasoning just
a little bit, you'll answer for yourself what my intended meaning and
purpose was ... unless you're just playing games with these replies.

I would also like to ask you one last time to stop using profanity even
in redacted form. You can make your points without it, and always far
better than you can with it.

[Rick C. Hodgin]

On Wednesday, October 26, 2016 at 6:09:27 PM UTC-4, Chris M. Thomasson wrote:
> On 10/24/2016 5:18 PM, Rick C. Hodgin wrote:
> > Chris M. Thomasson wrote:
> >> Moron
> > You dip very quickly into name calling and insults, Chris.
> > Does it help your cause?
>
> Ummm... What is my cause?

That was my question for you. What is your cause? How does calling
people names advance your cause?

> What are you talking about? I know that
> calling us all sinners does that help your cause.

I do not call people sinners. I warn you that you are sinners, and that
there is punishment coming for people who die without their sins being
forgiven. The assessment comes from God, and is defined by what He has
determined is a sin, and in the same way a person in a particular State
committing a transgression of the law that exists there. If they were
in another State it might not be a law, but wherever they are, each
person is subject to the laws therein ... and we are here in this world
living as men under God's Creation. We are all sinners, and the standard
to examine ourselves by is the Bible.

Consider only a few of the 10 Commandments. Have you ever violated any
of these?

1) Taken the Lord's name in vain (used it as a cuss word)?
That's the sin of blasphemy.
2) Stolen anything? Even once at any point, no matter the $ value?
That's the sin of thievery.
3) Committed adultery, or as Jesus refined the statement, ever looked
after a member of the opposite sex with lustful thoughts?
That's the sin of adultery.
4) Told a lie? Even one lie at any point, no mater how small?
That's the sin of lying.
5) Wanted something another person has?
That's the sin of covetousness.

All of us have sinned. I'm guilty of every one of those. I am a sinner.
And I need a savior. And I have found Him in Jesus Christ.

> You are very strange!
> ;^o

We all are, Chris, and each of us in our own unique ways. It's what
makes us all the same as well. Consider that thought ... that we are
all the same in that we are all different, that we are all the same in
that we all need a savior and that path from where we are in our lives
begins wherever we are, but leads directly from where we are to where
He is. We all begin at different places, but are on the same journey.
We all have different needs, but find the same Source to fill them
(Jesus Christ), because the Source is able to meet us well beyond the
point of our needs.

Jesus is life. He's the Creator of it. He's also the wellspring of it.
Without Him, life would not be. But in Him is life, and that life is
more abundant because of who He is.

God is not withholding things from us, but He is protecting us from
ourselves here in this sinful world. What if He gave us everything and
we were yet sinners before Him? What ongoing corruption would we sow
over time without ever seeing our sin being as we have everything we
need? This is actually a warning Jesus gave one of the churches in the
book of Revelation:

http://biblehub.com/kjv/revelation/3.htm

Message to the Church in Laodicea

14 And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These
things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning
of the creation of God;

15 I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou
wert cold or hot.
16 So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will
spue thee out of my mouth.
17 Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have
need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and
miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked:
18 I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest
be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that
the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with
eyesalve, that thou mayest see.
19 As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and
repent.
20 Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice,
and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him,
and he with me.
21 To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne,
even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his
throne.
22 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the
churches.

God is teaching us what we lost in sin. When we died spiritually, our
ability to understand eternal things died. We became focused on only the
temporal things of this world, and Satan has used that ongoingly to
deceive us into more and more sin. God has stepped in at various times
to correct that movement of the enemy. He did this routinely since the
beginning up to the time of Pentecost. At Pentecost, He gave man His own
Holy Spirit, so that we could then know and discern the things of God,
being guided from within by His own (figurative) hand.

Not many people are born again, and those who are speak as I do on these
things and are shunned by others because of that speaking, and because
we choose to live our lives differently. And Satan has come into the
churches and muddied the waters and stirred up strife and hate and
animosity and violence within people so that they, in their sin, following
after him (Satan) rather than God, have gone out and done heinous things
believing they are doing things for the Lord, but they are not. We have
been taught very clearly in scripture what the fruits of a true born again
Christian will be, and they can be summed up in a few words:

http://biblehub.com/kjv/galatians/5.htm

22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering,
gentleness, goodness, faith,
23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
24 And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the
affections and lusts.

Born again Christians are still buffeted by their sin-loving bodies, but
they will not control us. We are in pursuit of spiritual things, and
those spiritual things call us to God in a way our body never will. It's
why a person must be born again to be able to seek the Kingdom of God, or
to enter in to Heaven. Corruption cannot stand in incorruption, and sin
cannot dwell in the presence of God. We must shed our sin before we enter
into that place, which is what Jesus did by dying for us at the cross, so
that our sin died with Him and we are set free from our sin. Only then
can we be restored to eternal life, which is spiritual life.

Chris ... I've asked you many times to reflect upon these things I write.
To not immediately respond in the moment, but read them a few times and
get an understanding. Give yourself time to think it over before
responding. You have made so many mistakes in misunderstanding what I've
written, either legitimately or deliberately, but it is a pattern.

There's a verse which tells us how to approach things. It asks us to move
slower, calmer. The devil is always at work with our flesh trying to amp
us up into flesh-based sensations. Music with a particular beat which
keeps our flesh pumping. Other audio and visual stimuli. The urge to
always have a radio on, or something feeding into our flesh. God is that
"still small voice" on the inside. We must approach Him by seeking after
Him, and that means putting off other things.

http://biblehub.com/kjv/psalms/46-10.htm
10 Be still, and know that I am God: I will be exalted among the
heathen, I will be exalted in the earth.

When you come to Him as He is, you find Him. When you approach Him with
that pursuit of the truth, He reveals Himself to you, such that He will
be exalted by those attributes you discover of Him.

It takes a pursuit, a real effort. God cannot be understood with a
casual glance. That is the domain of sin and lies, both of which exist
only within the quick examination, because if you took the time to examine
it more thoroughly the lie would be discovered for what it is, just as the
sin would be known for the harm it ultimately does.

Give care and attention to your eternal soul, Chris. Pursue God with a
real pursuit. Don't be a quick responder to the initial drives and
impulses you feel, for these are being injected into you by an enemy who
wants you to quickly conclude, "Nutjob!" and then move on, because then
you won't take the time to consider the things I teach you, which are the
things He's teaching you through me, which are spirit and they are life,
and you then won't encounter that life and be saved.

Satan wants you bouncing around in the flesh, not contemplating God in
your spirit.

I pray this makes sense to you. And I pray you give God a real
consideration. You'll be forever grateful if you do.

[Rick C. Hodgin]

Bruce, you and others may want me to go to Hell figuratively or literally,
but I want nothing like that for you or any of the others. I want each of
you to prosper unendingly in the paradise of God He's prepared for us.
He's gone ahead of us and made a place for us so that when He comes back
for us it will be ready for us:

http://biblehub.com/kjv/john/14.htm

1 Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in
me.
2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would
have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.
3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and
receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

There's a song about it:

"That Where I Am May You Also Be"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4g62zLky698

God's future for each of us is beyond wonder and imagination. I would
bring that to you with the best of my ability.

It's free. It's eternal. And it's the very thing the enemy is trying
with his greatest effort to prevent you from coming to receive in this
world, which in and of itself indicates how great it is, for that is
his target (your soul) and not other things (like land or empires,
though he uses those things to target your soul).

[David Brown]

On 27/10/16 14:43, Rick C. Hodgin wrote:
> On Wednesday, October 26, 2016 at 4:35:17 PM UTC-4, Chris M. Thomasson wrote:
>> On 10/26/2016 7:59 AM, Rick C. Hodgin wrote:
>> [...]
>>> I sent Ivan Goddard a message the other day asking him if he had a
>>> meeting with him and his colleagues planned to go in and do some work,
>>> and someone showed up interrupting his proceedings and offered everyone
>>> bars and bars of finest purest gold for free ... would such a thing be
>>> an intrusion? A vandalism or theft of their planned meeting?
>> [...]
>>
>> I cannot speak for Ivan, but if you showed up at a planned meeting of
>> mine, and started to say "I have pure gold for free from god, blah", I
>> would call the damn cops, and try to get a restraining order.
>
> I didn't say "me" but rather "someone." And it's not specified in the
> brief lines I posted, but you would be allowed to test the individual
> with the gold to make sure it was legitimate. In this example, it is
> a relating to Jesus Christ, so it would be legitimate.

If someone offered free gold, I would assume it is a scam. If they
didn't stop bothering me, calling the police would seem reasonable.

If someone offered free gold and had a clear and unequivocal way for me
to test it and to prove it was an offer of free gold, I would assume it
was obtained illegally, or at least immorally. Again, I would want
nothing to do with it.

And if someone really was giving out free gold, all legal and fair, then
the worth of that gold would drop through the floor and it would be much
like giving out free lumps of lead or stones. (I realise your analogy
breaks down at this point - /your/ "gift" is not reduced by spreading
it around.)


In your case, your "gift" has no clear worth. Repeating yourself,
quoting yet more parts of the Bible or sending more youtube links does
not prove any worth. We know /you/ think your "gift" has great worth,
but there is no indication for anyone else - the word of people off the
internet is not sufficient. And remember, the Bible is not a stronger
source of information than anything you write, because we only have
/your/ word that it is "true". You have to look at this from the point
of view of other people, not from your own point of view - you have to
stop your circular reasoning of "the Bible is true because the Bible
says that the Bible is true". Indeed, since we know that you are asking
us to give up our humanity and our family and friends, and debase
ourselves to an invisible figure in the sky, your "gift" is not merely
worthless, but extremely costly.

Secondly, there is /no/ way to test the "gold" you offer. There is
absolutely /zero/ proof, in any rational, logical, scientific, or
physical sense. This is actually key to Christianity - it requires
faith. With a real test, there would be no need for faith - any more
than we need to have faith in the law of gravity. (Claims that we will
"learn the truth" when we "start truly searching", etc., are again
circular reasoning.)

Thirdly, your "gift" is not legitimate to anyone else. Again, you have
only circular reasoning to offer by way of explanation. You are inside
that "circle" - you cannot escape from your own trap, and you cannot
even see outside it properly any more. But you will /never/ persuade
anyone to join you because give no way to break into the circle.



Thus if you were to barge into a meeting with your religious claims and
demand that everyone listen to your message, there are only two ways to
view you and your message. Either you are a con-man trying to make
money out of us (and there are many, many people who use religion and
supernatural beliefs to con money out of people), or you are a sucker,
idiot or madman who has got himself caught in a trap of circular
reasoning with no benefit and a huge waste of time and effort. And I
don't believe you are in this game for the money.

>
>> Are you threatening to be some sort of weirdo stalker or something?
>>
>> Yikes!
>
> I sometimes conclude that you are not reading and/or understanding my
> posts, either that or you are being deliberately contrary to their
> intended meaning.
>
> I've tried to tell you before, Chris ... take some time to consider the
> things I write before responding. If you investigate my reasoning just
> a little bit, you'll answer for yourself what my intended meaning and
> purpose was ... unless you're just playing games with these replies.
>
> I would also like to ask you one last time to stop using profanity even
> in redacted form. You can make your points without it, and always far
> better than you can with it.
>

A great many people have asked /you/ to limit your language in many
ways, but you have paid no attention whatsoever. Why should Chris
change to suit you?

[Rick C. Hodgin]

On Thursday, October 27, 2016 at 10:26:01 AM UTC-4, David Brown wrote:
> [snip]

If you cannot hear the call of God in your life, David, it's because
you are not being saved. You can change that end by seeking after
the truth with a real effort.

-----
I continue to pray for you. And I reiterated that prayer even this
morning.

[David Brown]

On 27/10/16 16:28, Rick C. Hodgin wrote:
> On Thursday, October 27, 2016 at 10:26:01 AM UTC-4, David Brown wrote:
>> [snip]
>
> If you cannot hear the call of God in your life, David, it's because
> you are not being saved. You can change that end by seeking after
> the truth with a real effort.
>

So why do you bother posting this junk, when you know that neither I nor
anyone else on Usenet is going to be "seeking after the truth with real
effort"? Maybe there are people somewhere who are gullible enough to
listen to you - you should be trying to find them, not wasting your time
and everyone else's time here.

> I continue to pray for you. And I reiterated that prayer even this
> morning.
>

As I have said before, don't do that. Your attitude is selfish,
arrogant, thoughtless, impolite and disrespectful. (I say "selfish",
because you only do it because you think it makes you look good in the
eyes of your god - even if you will claim otherwise.) And the simple
fact is that your attitude here is one of the reasons no one wants to
join your cult - we do not see any appeal in becoming selfish and arrogant.

If you really are right about God and the Devil, then the Devil has
found a star pupil in you - you gladly do /his/ work while all the time
you think you are doing God's.

[Rick C. Hodgin]

On Thursday, October 27, 2016 at 2:53:29 PM UTC-4, David Brown wrote:
> On 27/10/16 16:28, Rick C. Hodgin wrote:
> > On Thursday, October 27, 2016 at 10:26:01 AM UTC-4, David Brown wrote:
> >> [snip]
> >
> > If you cannot hear the call of God in your life, David, it's because
> > you are not being saved. You can change that end by seeking after
> > the truth with a real effort.
>
> So why do you bother posting this junk, when you know that neither I nor
> anyone else on Usenet is going to be "seeking after the truth with real
> effort"?

I do not know that. I teach you these things because when the time comes
for each person they will come to Christ if they ever will. What near
death experience will you have that shakes you to your core so you then
reevaluate everything in your life? What shocking life change will you
go through that alters your foundations? What tree will you look at
driving home one day when God opens up your understanding and you then
receive the revelation of who He is?

Nobody knows when someone will come to believe. I was railing against
people as hard as you are against me in these areas before I was saved.
Most people who later come to faith were. It's a real change that
takes place, and it's not a man-induced thing, but a God-induced thing.
But from within that God-induced change, it will be His word heard by
your own ears which then resonates with what He's done to you on the
inside, such that you then understand, then hear His call, then respond
to it, and are led to His Son where you'll repent, ask forgiveness, and
be saved.

It's how it works, David. God changes whom He will, and He uses us to
spread His word and teach others, but it all came from Him originally.
There may be better teachers, better speakers, better writers, but each
of us goes out as we're able and does our best.

> Maybe there are people somewhere who are gullible enough to
> listen to you - you should be trying to find them, not wasting your time
> and everyone else's time here.

It will never happen for anybody until God makes that change on the
inside. It's why I don't get upset when you and others reject the
teaching. It's not my job to make you believe, but it is my job to
teach you correctly. God does the convincing on the inside of your
inmost man, and it's not my doing in the slightest.

> > I continue to pray for you. And I reiterated that prayer even this
> > morning.
> >
>
> As I have said before, don't do that. Your attitude is selfish,
> arrogant, thoughtless, impolite and disrespectful. (I say "selfish",
> because you only do it because you think it makes you look good in the
> eyes of your god - even if you will claim otherwise.) And the simple
> fact is that your attitude here is one of the reasons no one wants to
> join your cult - we do not see any appeal in becoming selfish and
> arrogant.

God commands us to pray for one another. And I will teach you the
truth about why you don't want me to pray for you:

You have let demons into your life throughout your life by your
choices. You are not alone in this, but rather all people have
done this unaware because of the sin nature.

Those demons are operating within you causing you to think false
things, believe false things, feel false things, and you simply
chalk it up to your own nature or being or thinking or feeling,
when in fact it is not your own, but it is there because of their
ongoing injection of falseness into you.

As such, you are constantly in your life drawn to things which
are leading to death, are of death, are of more sin, and so on.

If it God alone who can take away your sin, and make you
spiritually alive again so you can then hear and discern His
voice. And when you are born again, this new nature is like a
new sense coming online, one which gives you input you didn't
previously have, allowing you to know things you couldn't
previously know.

You are today a slave to sin, David. All people who are not saved are.
The enemy (Satan and all his demon imps) own you. That doesn't mean
they possess you fully, but they've watched you, they've studied you,
they've learned from experience with regards to you what sins you will
succumb to, and they target you in those areas where you're weakest so
that you will carry out their bidding.

You do it to me continually, even though you would swear up and down
that you don't. You're unaware of the fact you do it because of the
sin nature. You honestly believe you are being forthright in your
dealings with me.

I was the same way before I became a believer.

It's true of all people because of the sin nature, and because of the
born again nature. All who are born again are new creations in Christ.
The old way of doing everything passes, and the new way of hearing God
comes.

> If you really are right about God and the Devil, then the Devil has
> found a star pupil in you - you gladly do /his/ work while all the time
> you think you are doing God's.

As I say, you say these things because I am speaking the truth, and the
demons operating within you know that. And they turn everything around
to make me (speaking the truth) being the evil one. They infect your
thinking, your reasoning, your feelings, your emotions, and so much more
in your life, including altering who you will spend time with, be around,
listen to, and so on, so that your life is being literally orchestrated
into a death march.

I can't make you believe it, but it's the truth. If you ever seek the
Lord with a real effort, you will discover this for yourself, and your
jaw will drop onto the floor as mine did when it was revealed to me.

And if you have any compassion within you, which He will give you, then
you too will go out and try and teach the people of the world these
things so they can know them, and come out from that blind falseness,
and into the light of God, who literally illuminates the darkness that
you were in, so that you can see your way rightly.

It's all there, David. I can explain it to you in greater detail or
in other was, but it's all there for you to explore for yourself if
you will. If not, then it's not for you to be saved. But I pray you
will be saved, David, because you have tremendous value. You are an
amazing creation of God, and the Bible teaches that all who are saved
will shine like the stars forever, being those bright beacons of light
(of God's light) in the darkness.

He has a plan for you, and a purpose for your life. All you have to do
is receive it (receive Him), and He will do the rest. Admit you're a
sinner in need of salvation, and ask Him to save your eternal soul from
judgment, and He will.

I love you, David. You may not see it today, but someday when we stand
before God, and He brings you to me and you meet me and He shows you
where in my life I considered you, and how I considered you, and you're
then aware of what it all truly means because you've been stripped of
this sinful body, but are then seeing all things rightly, then you will
know. And you will know His love for you operating through men and
women like me who reach out to you in this way. You'll see it all then
as it truly is, and not as you are believing it is because of the demon
influence into your mind through this sinful flesh.

I pray you do find salvation, David. I would really like to see you in
Heaven. Maybe we could talk about hardware architecture while sitting
on clouds, and not the virtual storage kind. :-)

[Melzzzzz]

On Thu, 27 Oct 2016 12:13:59 -0700 (PDT)
"Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c...@gmail.com> wrote:

>
> It's true of all people because of the sin nature, and because of the
> born again nature. All who are born again are new creations in
> Christ. The old way of doing everything passes, and the new way of
> hearing God comes.

Who are born again, seems that they are deluded into believing they
are different... and became schizophrenics...
Who said:
when you talk to God that's prayer, but when God talks to you, that's
schizophrenia?



--
press any key to continue or any other to quit

[David Brown]

On 27/10/16 21:13, Rick C. Hodgin wrote:
> On Thursday, October 27, 2016 at 2:53:29 PM UTC-4, David Brown wrote:
>> On 27/10/16 16:28, Rick C. Hodgin wrote:
>>> On Thursday, October 27, 2016 at 10:26:01 AM UTC-4, David Brown wrote:
>>>> [snip]
>>>
>>> If you cannot hear the call of God in your life, David, it's because
>>> you are not being saved. You can change that end by seeking after
>>> the truth with a real effort.
>>
>> So why do you bother posting this junk, when you know that neither I nor
>> anyone else on Usenet is going to be "seeking after the truth with real
>> effort"?
>
> I do not know that. I teach you these things because when the time comes
> for each person they will come to Christ if they ever will.

You have made thousands of religious posts to Usenet groups that I
follow - I have no idea how many you have made to others. The vast
majority of these cause nothing but irritation - very few people bother
to read them. I am probably your "star pupil" - and I don't read a
quarter of what you write, and I skip every link you include.

And out of all those posts, can you identify a /single/ instance when
anyone has shown something remotely like a positive attitude to any of
them? People have occasionally asked genuine questions, which you
generally avoid or fail to answer in any satisfactory way. But has
anyone ever said "I am interested, and want to find out more"?

At what point will you accept that this effort is - at best - completely
wasted?

> What near
> death experience will you have that shakes you to your core so you then
> reevaluate everything in your life? What shocking life change will you
> go through that alters your foundations? What tree will you look at
> driving home one day when God opens up your understanding and you then
> receive the revelation of who He is?

Despite your unbounded and unjustified optimism, I can assure you that
no life-changing experience would ever make me interested in your
particular cult. It is possible that in the future I will become a
Christian or follow another religion - it is hard to see why, but
stranger things have happened. But baring highly specific brain damage,
I would never become like you or follow your ideas. Such life-changing
experiences may alter the priorities of the pillars of a person's
personality, but they do not change those pillars. I might well have an
experience that leads me to believe in some sort of supernatural or
divine being(s) - but not one that would lead me to worship one, or
believe in the sort of unjust psychopath you follow.

>>
>> As I have said before, don't do that. Your attitude is selfish,
>> arrogant, thoughtless, impolite and disrespectful. (I say "selfish",
>> because you only do it because you think it makes you look good in the
>> eyes of your god - even if you will claim otherwise.) And the simple
>> fact is that your attitude here is one of the reasons no one wants to
>> join your cult - we do not see any appeal in becoming selfish and
>> arrogant.
>
> God commands us to pray for one another. And I will teach you the
> truth about why you don't want me to pray for you:

You don't teach anyone anything - you pontificate as though you have
some special knowledge or information, or that you speak for God. You
don't - everything you write is from your own mind, and it is /not/
teaching.

>
>> If you really are right about God and the Devil, then the Devil has
>> found a star pupil in you - you gladly do /his/ work while all the time
>> you think you are doing God's.
>

<snip your total misunderstandings>

[Melzzzzz]

On Thu, 27 Oct 2016 22:35:31 +0200
David Brown <david...@hesbynett.no> wrote:

>
> You don't teach anyone anything - you pontificate as though you have
> some special knowledge or information, or that you speak for God.
> You don't - everything you write is from your own mind, and it
> is /not/ teaching.

I don't have problem with wisdom's that can come from religious
experiences. It's just that Rick is boring...

[Bruce Hoult]

On Thursday, October 27, 2016 at 9:53:29 PM UTC+3, David Brown wrote:
> If you really are right about God and the Devil, then the Devil has
> found a star pupil in you - you gladly do /his/ work while all the time
> you think you are doing God's.

I've reluctantly come to the conclusion you're right. Rick's an agent of the Devil, come to discredit God.

How do we get an exorcism?

[Rick C. Hodgin]

They will seem that way to the natural man:

http://biblehub.com/kjv/1_corinthians/2-14.htm

14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God:
for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them,
because they are spiritually discerned.

Their behavior will seem lunatic and contrary to normal things, because it
is directly contrary to the natural man. But, to the spiritual man it is
made clear by the discernment given through the born again nature.

It's a binary division of people:

1) Not born again.
2) Born again.

[Rick C. Hodgin]

On Thursday, October 27, 2016 at 4:35:33 PM UTC-4, David Brown wrote:
> On 27/10/16 21:13, Rick C. Hodgin wrote:
> > On Thursday, October 27, 2016 at 2:53:29 PM UTC-4, David Brown wrote:
> >> On 27/10/16 16:28, Rick C. Hodgin wrote:
> >>> On Thursday, October 27, 2016 at 10:26:01 AM UTC-4, David Brown wrote:
> >>>> [snip]
> >>>
> >>> If you cannot hear the call of God in your life, David, it's because
> >>> you are not being saved. You can change that end by seeking after
> >>> the truth with a real effort.
> >>
> >> So why do you bother posting this junk, when you know that neither I nor
> >> anyone else on Usenet is going to be "seeking after the truth with real
> >> effort"?
> >
> > I do not know that. I teach you these things because when the time comes
> > for each person they will come to Christ if they ever will.
>
> You have made thousands of religious posts to Usenet groups that I
> follow - I have no idea how many you have made to others. The vast
> majority of these cause nothing but irritation - very few people bother
> to read them. I am probably your "star pupil" - and I don't read a
> quarter of what you write, and I skip every link you include.

It will always be like that because of the division between the saved and
the unsaved, the truth-seekers and those willing / desiring to embrace
the lie.

It's what I'm trying to teach you ... the path you're on is a dead-end.
You may have some degree of comfort in this world, but it won't be the
same kind of comfort a believer has when they know they're saved because
the man forgiven by Jesus Christ has a peace that endures in the midst
of the storm knowing that when he is here God is with Him, and that when
He dies He's going to be with God forever.

The natural man has no such assurance, and is therefore always alone
without hope.

Jesus came to fill everything that we're missing, to be that assurance
so we have real confidence, to restore us to His original intent for us
as His eternal creations made in His image. We are part of His family.

[Rick C. Hodgin]

I've posted this before, but look at it differently this time. Look at
the love shone through these words, that together we, in love, are facing
the things of this world, because we are in Him, having assurance, and
knowing from where our strength comes:

This song should be every country’s national anthem. All school children should learn it. It’s brought me to tears many times.

"I Then Shall Live"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lsq3aDNhZIQ

I then shall live as one who's been forgiven.
I'll walk with joy to know my debts are paid.
I know my name is clear before my Father;
I am His child and I am not afraid.
So, greatly pardoned, I'll forgive my brother;
The law of love I gladly will obey.

I then shall live as one who's learned compassion.
I've been so loved, that I'll risk loving too.
I know how fear builds walls instead of bridges;
I'll dare to see another's point of view.
And when relationships demand commitment,
Then I'll be there to care and follow through.

Your Kingdom come around and through and in me;
Your power and glory, let them shine through me.
Your Hallowed Name, O may I bear with honor,
And may Your living Kingdom come in me.
The Bread of Life, O may I share with honor,
And may You feed a hungry world through me.

Amen. Amen. Amen.

This is the heart of Jesus Christ beating in men. It is our inward love
brought to bear upon this world because He first loved us. It is an
inner calling of outward action. The way to live, trusting and resting
in Him and His guidance, and then living in this world atop that solid
foundation.

He calls out to all people, but because of the love of sin, very few
are willing to answer Him and walk this walk. It is the more difficult
walk, impossible even on our own, but because of who He is, He gives us
the strength to walk it even when nobody around us is supporting us,
even when nobody else around us will.

God gives out continually to all who will receive.

[David Brown]

On 28/10/16 14:40, Rick C. Hodgin wrote:
> On Thursday, October 27, 2016 at 4:35:33 PM UTC-4, David Brown wrote:
>> On 27/10/16 21:13, Rick C. Hodgin wrote:
>>> On Thursday, October 27, 2016 at 2:53:29 PM UTC-4, David Brown wrote:
>>>> On 27/10/16 16:28, Rick C. Hodgin wrote:
>>>>> On Thursday, October 27, 2016 at 10:26:01 AM UTC-4, David Brown wrote:
>>>>>> [snip]
>>>>>
>>>>> If you cannot hear the call of God in your life, David, it's because
>>>>> you are not being saved. You can change that end by seeking after
>>>>> the truth with a real effort.
>>>>
>>>> So why do you bother posting this junk, when you know that neither I nor
>>>> anyone else on Usenet is going to be "seeking after the truth with real
>>>> effort"?
>>>
>>> I do not know that. I teach you these things because when the time comes
>>> for each person they will come to Christ if they ever will.
>>
>> You have made thousands of religious posts to Usenet groups that I
>> follow - I have no idea how many you have made to others. The vast
>> majority of these cause nothing but irritation - very few people bother
>> to read them. I am probably your "star pupil" - and I don't read a
>> quarter of what you write, and I skip every link you include.
>
> It will always be like that because of the division between the saved and
> the unsaved, the truth-seekers and those willing / desiring to embrace
> the lie.
>
> It's what I'm trying to teach you ... the path you're on is a dead-end.

Again, YOU DO NOT TEACH. You are not teaching anybody anything.

For there to be teaching, there must be several points:

1. There must be a "teacher" with knowledge and some level of authority,
and a position of respect.

You do not have any authority here. You /imagine/ you do, but it is
only from /your/ perspective. Nobody else sees you as an authoritative
figure with any right to suggest that you know better than others. The
atheists here know you are talking nonsense. The Christians here know
that much of what you say is nonsense or at least distorted. You do not
command any respect in religious matters (many people, including me,
have respect for you in technical issues and programming - but that does
not follow through to your religious posts).


2. There must be pupils who listen to the teaching.

There are no pupils here. No one listens to you. For the most part,
nothing you write is read by anyone - you are talking to walls. I read
this post - but your next one, when I saw there was a youtube link and a
song, I ignored entirely.


3. There must be a transfer of knowledge.

There is no transfer of knowledge going on here.


Since you are not teaching anything, and you are not discussing anything
(that has been your own claim earlier, and you never answer serious
questions), what /are/ you doing? You are merely pontificating (I hope
you understand the meaning of that word). Either you are trying to
convince yourself of what you say, or you are trying to score brownie
points for the afterlife. Pick one or the other - and answer in your
own words, not quotations.

[Rick C. Hodgin]

On Friday, October 28, 2016 at 11:03:23 AM UTC-4, David Brown wrote:
> On 28/10/16 14:40, Rick C. Hodgin wrote:
> > It's what I'm trying to teach you ... the path you're on is a dead-end.
> Again, YOU DO NOT TEACH. You are not teaching anybody anything.

A teacher teaches, but can't force a student to learn. That doesn't
change the fact that they teach. But if the student disciplines
themselves, pays attention, and has the attitude of learning they will
learn when taught. You will not learn because you are a rebellious-
in-sin person.

Unless you change your path, David, by seeking truth in all things,
you will enter into the eternal flames of Hell upon your death, never
to return, always to be in torment. It's the cost of sin in this
universe: eternal death in Hell.

If you're okay with that end ... continue on with what you are doing.
What I'm teaching you, whether you receive it or not, is that there's
a way out from that end. But, because God gives you free will, it's
up to you whether you will receive it or not.

You will choose where you go for all eternity. You have heard many
teachings throughout your life as to the call of God, of sin, of
repentance, of holiness, of reading and studying the Bible, etc. You
have rejected them summarily thus far. God gives you that right, but
what I'm teaching you is that there's a cost to that decision, and it's
a cost you cannot bear. It will crush you eternally.

It's up to you, David. You're the one in control of this decision.

Good luck with the choice you choose. My advice is: Choose life.

[Ivan Godard]

On 10/28/2016 8:03 AM, David Brown wrote:


Either you are trying to
> convince yourself of what you say, or you are trying to score brownie
> points for the afterlife. Pick one or the other - and answer in your
> own words, not quotations.
>
>

David, you are (justifiably) uncharitable. There's another explanation:
he can't help it. His disorder is not private (like compulsive
handwashing), and it's not so public that we could get restraining
orders. So we are stuck - he damages a society that does not yet have a
way of defending itself. The net is fill of that, and will eventually
develop ways to deal with the loonies. In the meantime, I suggest that
the best approach is to ignore him - your interactions do neither of you
any good.


see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Obsessive%E2%80%93compulsive_disorder

[David Brown]

On 28/10/16 17:26, Rick C. Hodgin wrote:
> On Friday, October 28, 2016 at 11:03:23 AM UTC-4, David Brown wrote:
>> On 28/10/16 14:40, Rick C. Hodgin wrote:
>>> It's what I'm trying to teach you ... the path you're on is a dead-end.
>> Again, YOU DO NOT TEACH. You are not teaching anybody anything.
>
> A teacher teaches, but can't force a student to learn. That doesn't
> change the fact that they teach. But if the student disciplines
> themselves, pays attention, and has the attitude of learning they will
> learn when taught. You will not learn because you are a rebellious-
> in-sin person.

No, I am not a rebellious person. And I am only a sinful person by
/your/ definition. By any human definition, I am quite a decent,
law-abiding person.

And while I agree entirely that "a teacher teaches, but can't force a
student to learn", /you/ are not a teacher, and you don't teach. And
even if you /were/ a teacher, then you are a truly appalling one when
you have so little success at it. You are the equivalent of a language
teacher who "teaches" by repeating the same three words over and over in
every lesson, on every school day of the year. And when pupils try to
ask what those words really mean, you repeat them again. When they fail
to understand the language, you label them as insubordinate,
inattentive, and wilfully ignorant.


If you really want to be a teacher, you have to learn about your pupils,
and understand their viewpoint. You don't do that - you simply demand
that people listen to you, and insult them if they don't.

[David Brown]

I would rather say that I am unjustifiably charitable - I keep hoping to
find a way to help Rick. I have failed repeatedly, and will no doubt
fail this time too. I expect to give up on this round quite soon - my
previous post to Rick will probably by my last in this thread. I can't
be sure I won't try again in the future - perhaps I have a touch of OCD
myself!

>
> see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Obsessive%E2%80%93compulsive_disorder

I am familiar with OCD, and a number of other disorders. OCD is not
what springs foremost to mind regarding Rick, but I certainly would not
rule it out. We can be sure, however, that Rick would not voluntarily
seek professional help - he is not even interested in talking to serious
Christians with proper education and training, because he does not
believe they are "real" Christians.

[Rick C. Hodgin]

On Friday, October 28, 2016 at 11:36:09 AM UTC-4, Ivan Godard wrote:
> On 10/28/2016 8:03 AM, David Brown wrote:
> Either you are trying to
> > convince yourself of what you say, or you are trying to score brownie
> > points for the afterlife. Pick one or the other - and answer in your
> > own words, not quotations.
>

> ... There's another explanation: he can't help it... [snip]

There's another explanation:

(1) It's all real what I'm teaching.
(2) I care about each of you.
(3) So I warn you so that you will not wind up there.

And this is the correct explanation. And my efforts in this way are
not alone. Many have gone before me preaching the same thing:

http://images.slideplayer.com/27/9093358/slides/slide_40.jpg

"If sinners will be damned, at least let them leap to helll over
our bodies; and if they will perish, let them perish with our
arms about their knees, imploring them to stay, and not madly
to destroy themselves. If hell must be filled, at least let it
be filled in the teeth of our exertions, and let not one go
there unwarned and unprayed for."

C.H. Spurgeon

-----
All who have died to self in Christ Jesus will have this sentiment. It
is His sentiment living inside of us:

http://biblehub.com/kjv/2_peter/3-9.htm

9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count
slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that
any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

The Lord wants ALL to come to repentance. It's why He came to the cross
and bled and died ... to set us free from death and Hell.

[Rick C. Hodgin]

On Friday, October 28, 2016 at 11:36:54 AM UTC-4, David Brown wrote:
> On 28/10/16 17:26, Rick C. Hodgin wrote:
> > On Friday, October 28, 2016 at 11:03:23 AM UTC-4, David Brown wrote:
> >> On 28/10/16 14:40, Rick C. Hodgin wrote:
> >>> It's what I'm trying to teach you ... the path you're on is a dead-end.
> >> Again, YOU DO NOT TEACH. You are not teaching anybody anything.
> >
> > A teacher teaches, but can't force a student to learn. That doesn't
> > change the fact that they teach. But if the student disciplines
> > themselves, pays attention, and has the attitude of learning they will
> > learn when taught. You will not learn because you are a rebellious-
> > in-sin person.
>
> No, I am not a rebellious person. And I am only a sinful person by
> /your/ definition. By any human definition, I am quite a decent,
> law-abiding person.

I am teaching you that the standard is God's standard, not man's. I am
teaching you that if you persist in this line of thinking you're on,
that it will cost you your eternal soul.

It's your choice, David. Make it a good one. My advice: Choose life.

[Quadibloc]

On Friday, October 28, 2016 at 9:46:21 AM UTC-6, Rick C. Hodgin wrote:

> There's another explanation:
>
> (1) It's all real what I'm teaching.
> (2) I care about each of you.
> (3) So I warn you so that you will not wind up there.

(2) and (3) are true enough. There is, however, no reason to even take (1)
seriously - at least, you are not providing one to those who do not already
believe what you are attempting to teach to be true.

John Savard

[Rick C. Hodgin]

I can't make (1) happen. I can only teach (1) and God Himself will have
to have made the switch inside of people so when they hear (1) they
themselves will hear it and know for themselves that it's true, and that
it's the thing they should pursue. God's Holy Spirit prompts them in
this way, so that it is not an act of man, but an act of God:

http://biblehub.com/kjv/1_corinthians/3.htm

6 I have planted, Apollos watered; but God gave the increase.
7 So then neither is he that planteth any thing, neither he that
watereth; but God that giveth the increase.

It is not me. It is not any Christian. It is all God. He uses us to
teach this message so that all who have an ear to hear can hear and be
saved.

Those who are called from within by God Himself will know the message
is true. The rest never will ever (because it's a spiritual message
and those who are dead in sin lack the spirit to be able to hear it,
and until they are forgiven and set free from sin, only God can draw
them from within by His supernatural abilities).

[Ivan Godard]

On 10/28/2016 8:44 AM, David Brown wrote:

>> see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Obsessive%E2%80%93compulsive_disorder
>
> I am familiar with OCD, and a number of other disorders. OCD is not
> what springs foremost to mind regarding Rick, but I certainly would not
> rule it out. We can be sure, however, that Rick would not voluntarily
> seek professional help - he is not even interested in talking to serious
> Christians with proper education and training, because he does not
> believe they are "real" Christians.

I got interested in the Wikipedia cite and have read more. It appear I
am wrong about OCD: the OCD sufferer knows his actions are irrational
but feels forced to do them anyway. OCPD is a better match
(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Obsessive%E2%80%93compulsive_personality_disorder),
but seems to come with perfectionism and compulsive orderliness, which
he may have but there's no indication I've heard.

So it looks like the dissociation from reality he shows is not an OC
kind of thing. It also doesn't quite fit Delusional Disorder
(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delusional_disorder), because while
Christian beliefs may be delusional in the popular sense, they aren't in
the medical sense. However, his belief that he is personally empowered
to impose his beliefs on others does resemble Grandiosity
(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grandiose_delusions).

Despite the risk of starting another OT flame war, I must say he bears
an astonishing resemblance to Donald Trump.

[Rick C. Hodgin]

On Friday, October 28, 2016 at 1:35:08 PM UTC-4, Ivan Godard wrote:
> Despite the risk of starting another OT flame war, I must say he bears
> an astonishing resemblance to Donald Trump.

"That's funny. It's enough to make me LOL out loud":

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uK_ZUlNZXxQ

FWIW, Ivan ... I really appreciate you. And I apologize for spelling
your last name incorrectly the other day. My mistake.

[Terje Mathisen]

Ivan Godard wrote:
> Despite the risk of starting another OT flame war, I must say he bears
> an astonishing resemblance to Donald Trump.
>
>

OUCH!

Terje

--
- <Terje.Mathisen at tmsw.no>
"almost all programming can be viewed as an exercise in caching"

[Mike Stump]

In article <nuvroj$dnl$1...@dont-email.me>,

David Brown <david...@hesbynett.no> wrote:
>I keep hoping to find a way to help Rick.

If you're serious, sitting down with him in person and helping him
understand why he posts and that this problem can be controlled with
education, medication and/or counseling is the most charitable thing I
can think of for him. The first hurdle will be helping him understand
there is a problem; because without some understanding that something
is terribly wrong, there can be no solution. Presently he doesn't
understand the scope and nature of the problem or that one even
exists. He is unable to understand when we say there is a problem,
that there is a problem. He needs a good friend that he trusts, to
slowly and patiently work with him to help him understand. It is
possibly the problem is so severe that he will never understand.

Anyway, good luck, and personally, I think any such help should be one
on one, not in a public forum.

[Chris M. Thomasson]

I can pray for myself. I have floating point issues to deal with, they
are a nasty hell spawn. I need to pray there might be a way to tamper
them down, perhaps, God willing, just a little bit. With help and proper
guidance, God willing.

See, I believe in God as well Rick!

;^)

[David Brown]

I agree on all you wrote. But he lives somewhere in the middle of the
USA, and I live in Norway - he is, quite literally, beyond my reach.
Nor am I his friend, and he does not trust me (he believes I am
possessed by the devil, and that daemons speak through me). The chances
of me being able to help him here are minimal - but what would Usenet be
without people trying to help each other despite low odds? :-)

[Rick C. Hodgin]

On Sunday, October 30, 2016 at 12:20:53 PM UTC-4, David Brown wrote:
> On 29/10/16 02:58, Mike Stump wrote:
> > Anyway, good luck, and personally, I think any such help should be one
> > on one, not in a public forum.
>

> ... But he lives somewhere in the middle of the USA, and I live in Norway
> - he is, quite literally, beyond my reach...

Always wanted to visit Norway. Maybe I could plan a vacation next year
to visit Norway and Sweden or Finland with my son during summer break.
He'd really enjoy it. And, beautiful country I'm told.

Norway in 7 minutes:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WofAIPO9OVQ

I live in Indianapolis, IN, just below the Great Lakes. About 4 hours from
Chicago:

Near Southport, IN, a small town on the south side of Indianapolis:
https://goo.gl/maps/sKncCMoxeq72

[jim.bra...@ieee.org]

I'm angry because he is blocking an interesting discussion of mill patents.
Disagree with you diagnosis, not OCD or OCPD, rather I would use of analogy of the Spanish missionaries conquering the new world. We are savages to him and it is OK to loot our treasure. And he feeds on our tolerance.

Jim Brakefield

[Rick C. Hodgin]

On Sunday, October 30, 2016 at 2:25:19 PM UTC-4, jim.bra...@ieee.org wrote:
> I'm angry because he is blocking an interesting discussion of mill patents.

There is another thread:

https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/comp.arch/-xFKBANKI0w

[David Brown]

On 30/10/16 18:05, Rick C. Hodgin wrote:
> On Sunday, October 30, 2016 at 12:20:53 PM UTC-4, David Brown wrote:
>> On 29/10/16 02:58, Mike Stump wrote:
>>> Anyway, good luck, and personally, I think any such help should be one
>>> on one, not in a public forum.
>>
>> ... But he lives somewhere in the middle of the USA, and I live in Norway
>> - he is, quite literally, beyond my reach...
>
> Always wanted to visit Norway. Maybe I could plan a vacation next year
> to visit Norway and Sweden or Finland with my son during summer break.
> He'd really enjoy it. And, beautiful country I'm told.

Norway is certainly a beautiful country (as are both Sweden and
Finland). I would recommend the north of Norway - either in the summer
to see the midnight sun (bring your midge repellent!), or in the winter
to see the Northern Lights. Either will give you a feeling of awe and
wonder at the beauty of nature.

>
> Norway in 7 minutes:
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WofAIPO9OVQ
>
> I live in Indianapolis, IN, just below the Great Lakes. About 4 hours from
> Chicago:
>
> Near Southport, IN, a small town on the south side of Indianapolis:
> https://goo.gl/maps/sKncCMoxeq72
>

As I said, "somewhere in the middle of the USA". That's as accurate as
any of us needs to know, unless you are explicitly arranging a visit
with someone.

[Rick C. Hodgin]

On Sunday, October 30, 2016 at 4:25:10 PM UTC-4, David Brown wrote:
> On 30/10/16 18:05, Rick C. Hodgin wrote:
> > On Sunday, October 30, 2016 at 12:20:53 PM UTC-4, David Brown wrote:
> >> On 29/10/16 02:58, Mike Stump wrote:
> >>> Anyway, good luck, and personally, I think any such help should be one
> >>> on one, not in a public forum.
> >>
> >> ... But he lives somewhere in the middle of the USA, and I live in Norway
> >> - he is, quite literally, beyond my reach...
> >
> > Always wanted to visit Norway. Maybe I could plan a vacation next year
> > to visit Norway and Sweden or Finland with my son during summer break.
> > He'd really enjoy it. And, beautiful country I'm told.
>
> Norway is certainly a beautiful country (as are both Sweden and
> Finland). I would recommend the north of Norway - either in the summer
> to see the midnight sun (bring your midge repellent!), or in the winter
> to see the Northern Lights. Either will give you a feeling of awe and
> wonder at the beauty of nature.

I would've targeted a destination like Oslo or Kristiansand, and then take
some kind of tour through the country ... either by automobile or train
if possible. It's still a pipe dream. The last time I was in Europe was
20 years ago.

> > Norway in 7 minutes:
> > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WofAIPO9OVQ
> >
> > I live in Indianapolis, IN, just below the Great Lakes. About 4 hours from
> > Chicago:
> >
> > Near Southport, IN, a small town on the south side of Indianapolis:
> > https://goo.gl/maps/sKncCMoxeq72
>
> As I said, "somewhere in the middle of the USA". That's as accurate as
> any of us needs to know, unless you are explicitly arranging a visit
> with someone.

I guess the "unnecessary extra precision" in people's answers is only a
requirement in comp.lang.c? :-)

I would enjoy meeting you, David. I think you might find I'm not the
person you think I am. You might even be surprised.

[David Brown]

On 30/10/16 21:44, Rick C. Hodgin wrote:
> On Sunday, October 30, 2016 at 4:25:10 PM UTC-4, David Brown wrote:
>> On 30/10/16 18:05, Rick C. Hodgin wrote:
>>> On Sunday, October 30, 2016 at 12:20:53 PM UTC-4, David Brown wrote:
>>>> On 29/10/16 02:58, Mike Stump wrote:
>>>>> Anyway, good luck, and personally, I think any such help should be one
>>>>> on one, not in a public forum.
>>>>
>>>> ... But he lives somewhere in the middle of the USA, and I live in Norway
>>>> - he is, quite literally, beyond my reach...
>>>
>>> Always wanted to visit Norway. Maybe I could plan a vacation next year
>>> to visit Norway and Sweden or Finland with my son during summer break.
>>> He'd really enjoy it. And, beautiful country I'm told.
>>
>> Norway is certainly a beautiful country (as are both Sweden and
>> Finland). I would recommend the north of Norway - either in the summer
>> to see the midnight sun (bring your midge repellent!), or in the winter
>> to see the Northern Lights. Either will give you a feeling of awe and
>> wonder at the beauty of nature.
>
> I would've targeted a destination like Oslo or Kristiansand, and then take
> some kind of tour through the country ... either by automobile or train
> if possible. It's still a pipe dream. The last time I was in Europe was
> 20 years ago.

I think you underestimate how long and thin Norway is, and how poor
travel is. From Oslo, it is a shorter distance to the south of Italy or
to Moscow than to the north of the country.

By train, you can't get more than about two thirds of the way up Norway.
And even then the journey is mostly through the boring parts of Sweden
(just miles of close pine forest) rather than Norway. Driving would be
something like 40 hours of driving - often on quite small and slow roads
(the fastest route is through Sweden and Finland, but again that's less
picturesque).

If you want to travel more and are happy to spend time and money on it,
fly to Oslo and get the train to Bergen through the mountains. Then get
the Hurtigruten cruise boat from Bergen up the coast of Norway, stopping
in at a variety of places along the way.

>
>>> Norway in 7 minutes:
>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WofAIPO9OVQ
>>>
>>> I live in Indianapolis, IN, just below the Great Lakes. About 4 hours from
>>> Chicago:
>>>
>>> Near Southport, IN, a small town on the south side of Indianapolis:
>>> https://goo.gl/maps/sKncCMoxeq72
>>
>> As I said, "somewhere in the middle of the USA". That's as accurate as
>> any of us needs to know, unless you are explicitly arranging a visit
>> with someone.
>
> I guess the "unnecessary extra precision" in people's answers is only a
> requirement in comp.lang.c? :-)
>
> I would enjoy meeting you, David. I think you might find I'm not the
> person you think I am. You might even be surprised.
>

Maybe that is true. I think we could have quite an interesting
conversation - if only you could stay away from religion. However, I am
confident that you could not keep that aside, and that would ruin much
of any discussions we would have.

[Rick C. Hodgin]

I had only planned on seeing a small part of Norway, basically around that
lower section. It would probably only be a week trip (fly-in, stay, visit
various places, drive or ride the train into the mountains, and then fly-
out, total of seven days), so whatever I could do in that time.

> >>> Norway in 7 minutes:
> >>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WofAIPO9OVQ
> >>>
> >>> I live in Indianapolis, IN, just below the Great Lakes. About 4 hours from
> >>> Chicago:
> >>>
> >>> Near Southport, IN, a small town on the south side of Indianapolis:
> >>> https://goo.gl/maps/sKncCMoxeq72
> >>
> >> As I said, "somewhere in the middle of the USA". That's as accurate as
> >> any of us needs to know, unless you are explicitly arranging a visit
> >> with someone.
> >
> > I guess the "unnecessary extra precision" in people's answers is only a
> > requirement in comp.lang.c? :-)
> >
> > I would enjoy meeting you, David. I think you might find I'm not the
> > person you think I am. You might even be surprised.
> >
>
> Maybe that is true. I think we could have quite an interesting
> conversation - if only you could stay away from religion. However, I am
> confident that you could not keep that aside, and that would ruin much
> of any discussions we would have.

It wouldn't be so bad. And I'd be curious to see any hardware you've
worked on and if you have a really cool lab with digital oscilloscopes
and the like. I only have an old tube-based analog model myself. :-)

As for my "religion":

You would see me praying before meals. I would not engage in course
humor or profanity, and my position on various issues relates to the
Biblical teachings. Other that that, it would be normal discussion.

Everyone at my work knows I'm a Christian, and it only comes up in
our normal conversations a few times a week, and it's usually a single
sentence or two. Sometimes they'll bring up things just to make a
point of trying to rattle me. Those are sad days for me as they do
it just to be mean. But, they don't do it much anymore. They've
come to realize my faith is real, and that it's not overtly harmful
to them. I live what I teach, and I encourage others to do the same
when the situation demands it, but on the whole we all like and
respect each other.

[David Brown]

If you only want to see a bit of Norway, don't go to Oslo. It is not a
particularly nice or interesting city - it's just a grey city like most
other cities around the world. (It has nice parts, and a few
interesting museums - but there is little reason to fly to Europe to see
Oslo rather than Paris, London, Vienna, etc.) If you come to Norway,
come for the nature - the mountains and fjords, the midnight sun and the
Northern Lights, not just an okay city.

I can only judge by what you write in these newsgroups - that's the only
Rick I know.

[Rick C. Hodgin]

Yup. That's why I wanted to drive or take a train, to go through the
nature and see all of the creation in its pristine state.

My favorite part of a trip to Alaska I took in 2002 was Yukon.
Absolutely the most beautiful place I've ever seen. Rugged. Pristine
in many places. And phenomenally beautiful. It was stunning.

I envision Norway, Sweden, and Finland, all being something like that.

The Rick you see in the newsgroups is the real Rick, but there's also more
to me than that. I like working on woodworking and metal projects, working
on cars (especially older cars, 1960s and before), going for long drives,
learning new things. I want to build a wooden boat like this one:

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLMsFC2VfNykXSPxGKYSGEtksWoktH4OIb

I like movies, boating, hiking ... pretty much regular things. I'm almost
a completely normal person ... I just have a strong faith that permeates
into everything so that all of the things I do are brought into subjection
to God.

[Rick C. Hodgin]

On Monday, October 31, 2016 at 9:53:21 AM UTC-4, Rick C. Hodgin wrote:
> I like ... pretty much regular things. I'm almost
> a completely normal person...

I say "almost a completely normal person" to be funny, of course, but
also as a nod to the fact we all have our quirks. For example, I think
deeply on things. It's often off-putting for people socially. My
nickname around my house is "tubes" because they say I get focused in
on watching a show, or on thinking about something, and can't hear any
outside input until my thinking about whatever it is completes.

Anyway ... back to our normal topics.

[Ivan Godard]

On 10/31/2016 4:53 AM, David Brown wrote:

> I think you underestimate how long and thin Norway is, and how poor
> travel is. From Oslo, it is a shorter distance to the south of Italy or
> to Moscow than to the north of the country.
>
> By train, you can't get more than about two thirds of the way up Norway.
> And even then the journey is mostly through the boring parts of Sweden
> (just miles of close pine forest) rather than Norway. Driving would be
> something like 40 hours of driving - often on quite small and slow roads
> (the fastest route is through Sweden and Finland, but again that's less
> picturesque).
>
> If you want to travel more and are happy to spend time and money on it,
> fly to Oslo and get the train to Bergen through the mountains. Then get
> the Hurtigruten cruise boat from Bergen up the coast of Norway, stopping
> in at a variety of places along the way.

OT: I took the Hurtigruter to Hammarfest and back in the early 1970's
while I was a Forsker at what was then NTH in Trondheim. Wonderful trip
- went through Spring both ways, although it was ~100 miles further
north on the return trip..

[Terje Mathisen]

David Brown wrote:
> If you only want to see a bit of Norway, don't go to Oslo. It is not a
> particularly nice or interesting city - it's just a grey city like most
> other cities around the world. (It has nice parts, and a few
> interesting museums - but there is little reason to fly to Europe to see
> Oslo rather than Paris, London, Vienna, etc.) If you come to Norway,
> come for the nature - the mountains and fjords, the midnight sun and the
> Northern Lights, not just an okay city.

The big draw of Oslo is for those interested in cross country skiing!

In wintertime we have 3-4000 km of groomed xc ski tracks.:-)

[David Brown]

On 01/11/16 14:12, Terje Mathisen wrote:
> David Brown wrote:
>> If you only want to see a bit of Norway, don't go to Oslo. It is not a
>> particularly nice or interesting city - it's just a grey city like most
>> other cities around the world. (It has nice parts, and a few
>> interesting museums - but there is little reason to fly to Europe to see
>> Oslo rather than Paris, London, Vienna, etc.) If you come to Norway,
>> come for the nature - the mountains and fjords, the midnight sun and the
>> Northern Lights, not just an okay city.
>
> The big draw of Oslo is for those interested in cross country skiing!
>
> In wintertime we have 3-4000 km of groomed xc ski tracks.:-)
>

But how does it compare to other parts of Norway for cross-country
skiing? (I have very little interest in skiing.) If you wanted to come
to Norway for skiing, would you go to Oslo or would you go somewhere
else (Lillehammer, maybe) ?

[Nick Maclaren]

In article <nva8bo$96a$1...@dont-email.me>,

I haven't been there in four decades, but Oslo was very much 'park'
skiing, including some floodlit tracks, though I assume that there
were more rural routes outside. For longer and more upland routes,
Geilo and the Hardangervidda are the place to go (Geilo claims
220 km of trails!) Basically, what do you want?


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

[Quadibloc]

On Monday, October 31, 2016 at 7:42:22 AM UTC-6, David Brown wrote:

> If you only want to see a bit of Norway, don't go to Oslo. It is not a
> particularly nice or interesting city - it's just a grey city like most
> other cities around the world. (It has nice parts, and a few
> interesting museums - but there is little reason to fly to Europe to see
> Oslo rather than Paris, London, Vienna, etc.) If you come to Norway,
> come for the nature - the mountains and fjords, the midnight sun and the
> Northern Lights, not just an okay city.

I doubt that I will ever travel to Europe in my lifetime, but Norway has still touched me in another way: it has contributed to the world of music, in ways I have encountered on YouTube...

First, Wenche Myrhe (known as Wencke Myrhe in Germany):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7S-Q-FmQ6ds

and then Sissel Kirkjebø:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bYuR_p0Mios

John Savard

[Terje Mathisen]

Lillehammer (as well as many, many other inland/higher elevation areas)
have a longer xc ski season than Oslo, but the most eager skiers in Oslo
started a week or two ago. Those people tend to rack up 10 000 km in a
single winter.

The thing about Oslo is the immense track system and the equally amazing
numbers of skiers, all days of the week (probably 200 km of lighted
tracks, plus a lot of people using modern LED headlamps) but Lillehammer
is comparable to that every weekend.

[Terje Mathisen]

If you're into this stuff you owe it to yourself to check out Aurora on
youtube!

OTOH you have the 4-woman band Katzenjammer, where everyone takes turn
playing many of the 20+ instruments they bring to the stage, and all of
them write songs and play/sing the lead.

[David Brown]

Yes, but that is mainly people who /live/ in or around Oslo.

The question was, if you want to visit Norway with an intention of going
cross-country skiing, would you go to Oslo or would you go elsewhere?
It sounds to me like you would go to Lillehammer during the week -
tracks are not so appealing to a visitor if they are too many people around.

But as Nick says, it depends what you want. For some people, measuring
their time and calorie burns around the same track is important - for
others, you are going for a walk in fantastic scenery and enjoying the
winter weather.

[Terje Mathisen]

This is _seriously_ OT by now. :-)

The key about the huge amount of tracks in Oslo is that you can ski for
days and days without ever queuing up anywhere, and without retracing
your steps. In fact if you want to be alone at least 90% of the track
system will be empty on a given weekday.

For more of a nature appreciation trip OTOH you should instead arrive in
late Feb to early April (possibly excepting Easter) and take the train
to Finse (on the Oslo-Bergen line), then ski across Hardangervidda while
staying overnight in the many Norwegian Mountain Touring Association
cabins that are dotted all over the place.

Doing this you can end up in Rjukan and visit the place where the heavy
water plant was blown up during WWII, reflecting on how more than 10K
crack German mountain troops were unable to find the saboteurs while
they escaped, skiing over the mountains.

BTW, this will also put you in the area I know best, having skied there
since 1967 or so.

[Rick C. Hodgin]

On Wednesday, November 2, 2016 at 7:54:07 AM UTC-4, Terje Mathisen wrote:
> BTW, this will also put you in the area I know best, having skied there
> since 1967 or so.

How old are you, Terje? I always thought you were only three of four years
older than I am, so around 50 or 51.

[Bruce Hoult]

On Wednesday, November 2, 2016 at 2:54:07 PM UTC+3, Terje Mathisen wrote:
> This is _seriously_ OT by now. :-)

Yes, but an improvement.

[Morten Reistad]

In article <nva8bo$96a$1...@dont-email.me>,
David Brown <david...@hesbynett.no> wrote:

All the "ski names" like Hemsedal, Trysil, Lillehammer, Hafjell, Stryn etc
are good; but firstly for downhill. There are many miles (100's) of
maintained track in each of them. And then there is off-piste skiiing,
which is great. (Just watch for avalanche-prone hillsides).

Just don't go the the outer ~50-100 km of the coastline from
Stavanger northwards, there is not reliable winter climate there;
it is warmed by the ocean.

But do visit Bergen. Just bring rain gear.

Sorry for the ott-topic posting. I do very much look forward to the
first silicon of the Mill.

-- mrr

[Chris M. Thomasson]

On 10/27/2016 6:09 AM, Rick C. Hodgin wrote:
> On Wednesday, October 26, 2016 at 6:09:27 PM UTC-4, Chris M. Thomasson wrote:
>> On 10/24/2016 5:18 PM, Rick C. Hodgin wrote:
>>> Chris M. Thomasson wrote:
>>>> Moron
>>> You dip very quickly into name calling and insults, Chris.
>>> Does it help your cause?
>>
>> Ummm... What is my cause?
>
> That was my question for you. What is your cause? How does calling
> people names advance your cause?

My cause, I guess, is to try and made the idea of a God, a good one. Why
be afraid of it? Are you scared?