Merced -> Itanium.

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Zalman Stern

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Oct 4, 1999, 3:00:00 AM10/4/99
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I'd write more, but I'm laughing too hard. Will they call the 1GHz version
Unobtanium?

-Z-


Mike Smith

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Oct 4, 1999, 3:00:00 AM10/4/99
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Zalman Stern <zal...@netcom14.netcom.com> wrote in message
news:7tb4kh$a...@dfw-ixnews6.ix.netcom.com...

> I'd write more, but I'm laughing too hard. Will they call the 1GHz version
> Unobtanium?

Maybe they should license "Turbonium" from VW.

--
Mike Smith

There are perhaps 5% of the population that simply *can't* think.
There are another 5% who *can*, and *do*.
The remaining 90% *can* think, but *don't*.
-- R. A. Heinlein

Dave Schreiber

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Oct 4, 1999, 3:00:00 AM10/4/99
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In article <7tb4kh$a...@dfw-ixnews6.ix.netcom.com>,

Zalman Stern <zal...@netcom14.netcom.com> wrote:
>I'd write more, but I'm laughing too hard. Will they call the 1GHz version
>Unobtanium?

For a bit of context to the above, here's a link to the press release,
etc.:

<http://www.intel.com/eBusiness/enabling/itanium.htm>
--
Dave Schreiber "Can money pay for all the days
so...@dks2.net I lived awake but half asleep?"
^^^^^ ^^^^ -Primitive Radio Gods (SOaBPBwMiMH)
(For my e-mail address, swap the ^^^'d parts and remove the "2")

Rob Barris

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Oct 4, 1999, 3:00:00 AM10/4/99
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In article <7tbakj$3...@bolt.sonic.net>, Dave Schreiber <no...@nowhere.gov>
wrote:

> In article <7tb4kh$a...@dfw-ixnews6.ix.netcom.com>,
> Zalman Stern <zal...@netcom14.netcom.com> wrote:
> >I'd write more, but I'm laughing too hard. Will they call the 1GHz version
> >Unobtanium?

If they went with that name, the majority of Intel employees might stage

"a mutini"

Rob

Robert Harley

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Oct 5, 1999, 3:00:00 AM10/5/99
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Zalman Stern <zal...@netcom14.netcom.com> writes:

> I'd write more, but I'm laughing too hard. [...]

Thus spake the anagram generator:

Itanium for e-Business <-> Ruinous - benefit amiss


R

Robert Harley

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Oct 5, 1999, 3:00:00 AM10/5/99
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Culled from the first few responses on Slashdot:

>Itanic

>It offers the deprecatory "sh" prefix, all too easily.

>Intel Itanium = Lame Unit In I.T.


R

Toon Moene

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Oct 5, 1999, 3:00:00 AM10/5/99
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Robert Harley wrote:
>
> Culled from the first few responses on Slashdot:
>
> >Itanic
>
> >It offers the deprecatory "sh" prefix, all too easily.

Hmmm, the `t' prefix seems more likely, to me.

Merced, a disaster of titanic proportions.

--
Toon Moene (to...@moene.indiv.nluug.nl)
Saturnushof 14, 3738 XG Maartensdijk, The Netherlands
Phone: +31 346 214290; Fax: +31 346 214286
GNU Fortran: http://gcc.gnu.org/onlinedocs/g77_news.html

Maynard Handley

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Oct 6, 1999, 3:00:00 AM10/6/99
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In article <37FA3FB7...@moene.indiv.nluug.nl>, Toon Moene
<to...@moene.indiv.nluug.nl> wrote:

>Robert Harley wrote:
>>
>> Culled from the first few responses on Slashdot:
>>
>> >Itanic
>>
>> >It offers the deprecatory "sh" prefix, all too easily.
>
>Hmmm, the `t' prefix seems more likely, to me.
>
> Merced, a disaster of titanic proportions.

All fun and games, but people laughed at the Pentium name too. Lots of
moaning about how 586 was good enough. That name change seems to have
worked out pretty well for Intel.
Conclusion---architects commenting on IA-64 and Merced engineering details
makes sense, but unless one of us has real-world experience in what makes
certain names and brands appeal to the world, let's leave names to the
marketing people.

Maynard

Peter Seebach

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Oct 6, 1999, 3:00:00 AM10/6/99
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In article <brucehoult-07...@bruce.bgh>,
Bruce Hoult <bruce...@pobox.com> wrote:
>It seems different this time. I don't recall anyone laughing at the
>Pentium name as a laughable thing in itself.

I do, but we got used to it. It sure did sound funny...

>Does even *one* person here think that "Itanium" was a good name?

I doubt it; it's phonetically ugly.

-s
--
Copyright 1999, All rights reserved. Peter Seebach / se...@plethora.net
C/Unix wizard, Pro-commerce radical, Spam fighter. Boycott Spamazon!
Will work for interesting hardware. http://www.plethora.net/~seebs/
Visit my new ISP <URL:http://www.plethora.net/> --- More Net, Less Spam!

David T. Wang

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Oct 6, 1999, 3:00:00 AM10/6/99
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Bruce Hoult (bruce...@pobox.com) wrote:
: hand...@ricochet.net (Maynard Handley) wrote:

: > All fun and games, but people laughed at the Pentium name too. Lots of


: > moaning about how 586 was good enough. That name change seems to have
: > worked out pretty well for Intel.

: It seems different this time. I don't recall anyone laughing at the
: Pentium name as a laughable thing in itself. The jibes concerned whether
: there was a need to use a name instead of a number at all, and humourous
: speculation on what the follow-up name would be (especially given mixing
: latin and greek).

I recall a lot of confusion, and people saying "huh?" at the Pentium
name.

: Time has of course shown that even Intel couldn't come up with another
: word name -- or at least one that would be better than just tacking "pro",
: "II", "III" onto the end of "Pentium".

And ofcourse Celeron and Xeon, and now AMD has joined the party with
the latest in a series of dumb names.

: > Conclusion---architects commenting on IA-64 and Merced engineering details


: > makes sense, but unless one of us has real-world experience in what makes
: > certain names and brands appeal to the world, let's leave names to the
: > marketing people.

: Does even *one* person here think that "Itanium" was a good name?

Does it matter what a bunch of programmers/architects/designers think
about a marketing name?

--
main(){char *a[]={"Illogical.","Balderdash.","Non sequitur.","Incorrect.",
"See what I mean?","Irrelevant.","Poppycock."};for(;;)puts(a[rand()%7]);}

Stefan Monnier <foo@acm.com>

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Oct 6, 1999, 3:00:00 AM10/6/99
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>>>>> "Bruce" == Bruce Hoult <bruce...@pobox.com> writes:
> Does even *one* person here think that "Itanium" was a good name?

I don't about "good" (especially given that I don't know if the leading
"i" should be pronounced as in "idea" or as in "integer"), but I can see
two (dubiously) positive aspects:
- it starts with "i" like "intel" (could be spelt "iTanium")
- it can be made to sound somewhat like "internet".


Stefan

Bruce Hoult

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Oct 7, 1999, 3:00:00 AM10/7/99
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In article <handleym-061...@handma3.apple.com>,
hand...@ricochet.net (Maynard Handley) wrote:

> All fun and games, but people laughed at the Pentium name too. Lots of
> moaning about how 586 was good enough. That name change seems to have
> worked out pretty well for Intel.

It seems different this time. I don't recall anyone laughing at the
Pentium name as a laughable thing in itself. The jibes concerned whether
there was a need to use a name instead of a number at all, and humourous
speculation on what the follow-up name would be (especially given mixing
latin and greek).

Time has of course shown that even Intel couldn't come up with another


word name -- or at least one that would be better than just tacking "pro",
"II", "III" onto the end of "Pentium".

> Conclusion---architects commenting on IA-64 and Merced engineering details
> makes sense, but unless one of us has real-world experience in what makes
> certain names and brands appeal to the world, let's leave names to the
> marketing people.

Does even *one* person here think that "Itanium" was a good name?

-- Bruce

Andy Newman

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Oct 7, 1999, 3:00:00 AM10/7/99
to
Maynard Handley wrote:
>Conclusion---architects commenting on IA-64 and Merced engineering details
>makes sense, but unless one of us has real-world experience in what makes
>certain names and brands appeal to the world, let's leave names to the
>marketing people.

Good points. Never underestimate the power of the marketing dept!
The branded name needs a few properties - not rude or silly in any
language (sometimes quite difficult), not similar to another company's
trademark, unique enough that it stands out (and Itanium does at least
stand out ;) so they can market the *shit* out of it (TV ads for micro-
processor chips, never thought I'd see that).

--
Chuck Berry lied about the promised land

Dave Hansen

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Oct 7, 1999, 3:00:00 AM10/7/99
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On 06 Oct 1999 17:48:44 -0400, "Stefan Monnier <f...@acm.com>"
<monnier+comp/arch/news/@tequila.cs.yale.edu> wrote:

>>>>>> "Bruce" == Bruce Hoult <bruce...@pobox.com> writes:

>> Does even *one* person here think that "Itanium" was a good name?
>

>I don't about "good" (especially given that I don't know if the leading
>"i" should be pronounced as in "idea" or as in "integer"), but I can see

I suspect it's as in "idea," the goal being to remind you of titanium,
which is supposed to evoke images of strength and value. Witness the
credit card companies, desperate to introduce a more exclusive card
than their "platinum" cards (previously introduced to exceed the
"gold" cards) are now pitching "titanium" cards. (What's next,
osmium?)

>two (dubiously) positive aspects:
>- it starts with "i" like "intel" (could be spelt "iTanium")
>- it can be made to sound somewhat like "internet".

Or "Information Technology," i.e. "IT", with the "ium" suffix to
remind you of Pentium. Still dubious, though.

Regards,

-=Dave
Just my (10-010) cents
I can barely speak for myself, so I certainly can't speak for B-Tree.
Change is inevitable. Progress is not.

Matt Reilly

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Oct 7, 1999, 3:00:00 AM10/7/99
to
Comp.archers:

A friend came across a nearly shredded chunk of paper blowing
across a sidewalk in a bay area town (name withheld). I've removed
the headers and blocked out the name of the originator to protect the
identity of all parties involved.

I'm not absolutely sure what company it really came from, but
I can take a guess at the company and the product they were trying
to name.

matt

(As always, I don't speak for my employers unless they're paying
me for it. Whoever they are.)

----------------------------------------------------------------

To: New Product Naming Committee
From: zzzzz z. zzzzzzzz

I finished setting up the database for our AutoName V2.3
last night. Twelve hours later, AN had come up with just ten names.
The trend doesn't look good. We'd better start working up a list of
names on our own.

As most of you know, AutoName builds a database of company
characteristics, product information, and local cultural attributes
by scanning product brochures, press releases, internal memoranda,
just about anything in text form. Last night AN scanned the e-mail
backup archives and built a database tailored to our operation.

The database combined with specific product information has
yielded the following list so far. (As I've said, I think we should
probably abandon this path: I really don't like the trend here.)


Repentium
Monopolium
Huncocrapium
Hyperium
Uberhype
Trajedia
Rustoleum
Rehashium
Komitium
Dominatium
Agilentium

This doesn't look good. I'll bring the updated list to the
afternoon meeting. We've got to come up with something soon.


--
Linux Rules!

Linux on Alpha Rules Bigtime!

Chris Brown

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Oct 7, 1999, 3:00:00 AM10/7/99
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In article <37fca8d7....@192.168.2.34>,

Dave Hansen <dha...@btree.com> wrote:
>I suspect it's as in "idea," the goal being to remind you of titanium,
>which is supposed to evoke images of strength and value.

And lightbulbs?

--
/* _ */main(int k,char**n){char*i=k&1?"+L*;99,RU[,RUo+BeKAA+BECACJ+CAACA"
/* / ` */"CD+LBCACJ*":1[n],j,l=!k,m;do for(m=*i-48,j=l?m/k:m%k;m>>7?k=1<<m+
/* | */8,!l&&puts(&l)**&l:j--;printf(" \0_/"+l));while((l^=3)||l[++i]);}
/* \_,hris Brown -- All opinions expressed are probably wrong. */

Chris Brown

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Oct 7, 1999, 3:00:00 AM10/7/99
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In article <7ticov$c...@sis.cambridge.arm.com>,

Chris Brown <Chris.omitt...@arm.andthisbit.com> wrote:
>In article <37fca8d7....@192.168.2.34>,
>Dave Hansen <dha...@btree.com> wrote:
>>I suspect it's as in "idea," the goal being to remind you of titanium,
>>which is supposed to evoke images of strength and value.
>
>And lightbulbs?

Sorry, that's tungsten. Just ignore me and I'll go back to sleep. :-)

Brian Drummond

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Oct 7, 1999, 3:00:00 AM10/7/99
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On 6 Oct 1999 21:13:43 GMT, dave...@wam.umd.edu@club...@Glue.umd.edu
(David T. Wang) wrote:

>Bruce Hoult (bruce...@pobox.com) wrote:


>: hand...@ricochet.net (Maynard Handley) wrote:
>
>: > All fun and games, but people laughed at the Pentium name too. Lots of
>: > moaning about how 586 was good enough. That name change seems to have
>: > worked out pretty well for Intel.
>
>: It seems different this time. I don't recall anyone laughing at the
>: Pentium name as a laughable thing in itself. The jibes concerned whether
>: there was a need to use a name instead of a number at all,

>I recall a lot of confusion, and people saying "huh?" at the Pentium
>name.

but given their inability to copyright a number, the "need" was real
enough.

>: Time has of course shown that even Intel couldn't come up with another


>: word name -- or at least one that would be better than just tacking "pro",
>: "II", "III" onto the end of "Pentium".
>

>And ofcourse Celeron and Xeon, and now AMD has joined the party with
>the latest in a series of dumb names.

On the other hand...

how else could AMD have taken shots at both "pent"ium AND "dec" with one
stone?

(the dual processor configuration is rather obvious too)

- Brian

Pete Smoot

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Oct 7, 1999, 3:00:00 AM10/7/99
to
In article <37fca8d7....@192.168.2.34>, dha...@btree.com (Dave Hansen) writes:
> I suspect it's as in "idea," the goal being to remind you of titanium,
> which is supposed to evoke images of strength and value.

I mentioned the new name to my wife last night. She got the titanium
association, but (when I mentioned it's supposed to invoke images of
strength and durability) asked "Titanium does that?"

Why does the marketing department of the Sirius Cybernetics
Corporation spring to mind? Share and Enjoy!

-- Pete Smoot
Pinnacle Systems


Chris Russ

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Oct 7, 1999, 3:00:00 AM10/7/99
to
Dave Hansen wrote:

> On 06 Oct 1999 17:48:44 -0400, "Stefan Monnier <f...@acm.com>"
> <monnier+comp/arch/news/@tequila.cs.yale.edu> wrote:
>
>
> Witness the
> credit card companies, desperate to introduce a more exclusive card
> than their "platinum" cards (previously introduced to exceed the
> "gold" cards) are now pitching "titanium" cards. (What's next,
> osmium?)

My favorites are:

43 Tc Technetium (Radioactive!!!! NFIN == Not Found In Nature)
38 Sr Strongtium (paint this inside a cobalt bomb, eh?)

Then we can start getting silly:

59 Pr Praseodymium (Prosaic? maybe not)
94 Pu Plutonium (One of the most poisonous substances known to man!)

97 Bk Berkelium
98 Cf Californium (Big, heavy, radioactive with a very short half-life)

Too bad this one is taken:

14 Si Silicon

-Chris Russ


Paul DeMone

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Oct 7, 1999, 3:00:00 AM10/7/99
to

Zalman Stern wrote:
>
> I'd write more, but I'm laughing too hard. Will they call the 1GHz version
> Unobtanium?

Its all unobtainium for now. BTW, the new name for merced is about
all the information that came out of Intel's double slot presentation
at MPF. BTW, Peter Bannon of Compaq came up with best line I heard
all week: "EPIC stands for Expects Perfectly Intuitive Compilers".
Fred Pollack of Intel let slip with "Merced has more pipe stages
than we orginally had envisioned" <grin>


>
> -Z-

--
Paul W. DeMone The 801 experiment SPARCed an ARMs race of EPIC
Kanata, Ontario proportions to put more PRECISION and POWER into
dem...@mosaid.com architectures with MIPSed results but ALPHA's well
pde...@igs.net that ends well.

Chris Cox

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Oct 7, 1999, 3:00:00 AM10/7/99
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In article <7tictd$c...@sis.cambridge.arm.com>,
Chris.omitt...@arm.andthisbit.com (Chris Brown) wrote:

> In article <7ticov$c...@sis.cambridge.arm.com>,
> Chris Brown <Chris.omitt...@arm.andthisbit.com> wrote:
> >In article <37fca8d7....@192.168.2.34>,
> >Dave Hansen <dha...@btree.com> wrote:

> >>I suspect it's as in "idea," the goal being to remind you of titanium,
> >>which is supposed to evoke images of strength and value.
> >

> >And lightbulbs?
>
> Sorry, that's tungsten. Just ignore me and I'll go back to sleep. :-)

Titanium -- as in, white paint (Titanium (di)Oxide).

Chris

Jan Vorbrueggen

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Oct 8, 1999, 3:00:00 AM10/8/99
to
Chris Russ <jc...@aol.com> writes:

> 94 Pu Plutonium (One of the most poisonous substances known to man!)

Well, yes, if you are stupid enough to inhale it in power form, and wait a few
years for cancer to develop. In that case, I suggest you take a similar dose
of Botulinus toxin, which would kill you in a minute or two, and be massive
overkill.

OT, I know.

Jan

Robert Barris

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Oct 8, 1999, 3:00:00 AM10/8/99
to
In article <y4aepux...@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de>,

IIRC "Pu" is deadly for its chemical behavior once inhaled, the
radioactivity is secondary at that point.

Rob

Ketil Z Malde

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Oct 8, 1999, 3:00:00 AM10/8/99
to
Chris.omitt...@arm.andthisbit.com (Chris Brown) writes:

> In article <37fca8d7....@192.168.2.34>,
> Dave Hansen <dha...@btree.com> wrote:
> >I suspect it's as in "idea," the goal being to remind you of titanium,
> >which is supposed to evoke images of strength and value.

> And lightbulbs?

No, but frying pans.
Or perhaps it's bicycles?

-kzm
--
If I haven't seen further, it is by standing in the footprints of giants

Paul Dietz

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Oct 8, 1999, 3:00:00 AM10/8/99
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In article <7tkgn6$7...@dfw-ixnews4.ix.netcom.com>,
Robert Barris <rba...@netcom.com> wrote:

> IIRC "Pu" is deadly for its chemical behavior once inhaled, the
> radioactivity is secondary at that point.

This is a common myth. No, the danger is due to its
radioactivity. Its chemistry is important in that
it affects how/where the element stays in the body,
and so affects the radiation dose.

Paul

Dave Hansen

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Oct 8, 1999, 3:00:00 AM10/8/99
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On Thu, 07 Oct 1999 20:20:26 -0700, cc...@slip.net (Chris Cox) wrote:

[...]


>Titanium -- as in, white paint (Titanium (di)Oxide).

So it's all just a whitewash?

Toon Moene

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Oct 8, 1999, 3:00:00 AM10/8/99
to
Bruce Hoult wrote:

> In article <handleym-061...@handma3.apple.com>,
> hand...@ricochet.net (Maynard Handley) wrote:

> > All fun and games, but people laughed at the Pentium name too. Lots of
> > moaning about how 586 was good enough. That name change seems to have
> > worked out pretty well for Intel.

> It seems different this time. I don't recall anyone laughing at the
> Pentium name as a laughable thing in itself.

Are you sure ? Doesn't "The Fifth" has any connotations of doom for you
?

It was pretty clear why Intel couldn't go on with calling it (x++)86 -
they weren't allowed to trademark a number.

Maynard Handley

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Oct 8, 1999, 3:00:00 AM10/8/99
to
In article <7tkgn6$7...@dfw-ixnews4.ix.netcom.com>, rba...@netcom.com
(Robert Barris) wrote:

>In article <y4aepux...@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de>,
>Jan Vorbrueggen <j...@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de> wrote:
>>Chris Russ <jc...@aol.com> writes:
>>
>>> 94 Pu Plutonium (One of the most poisonous substances known to man!)
>>
>>Well, yes, if you are stupid enough to inhale it in power form, and wait a few
>>years for cancer to develop. In that case, I suggest you take a similar dose
>>of Botulinus toxin, which would kill you in a minute or two, and be massive
>>overkill.
>

>IIRC "Pu" is deadly for its chemical behavior once inhaled, the
>radioactivity is secondary at that point.

HOWEVER, is this chemical poisonousness substantially larger than that of
other inorganics that don't have the glamor of radioactivity (like arsenic
or cyanide). And if it is substantially more toxic (ie toxic in lower
doses), what's the mode of operation? Some strange fluke like the atom
just happens to be the right size to slide into some key enzyme and gum it
up?

Maynard

Rob Barris

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Oct 8, 1999, 3:00:00 AM10/8/99
to
In article <handleym-081...@handma3.apple.com>,
hand...@ricochet.net (Maynard Handley) wrote:

http://www.uilondon.org/ci3_plu.htm says, "no worse than any other heavy
metal if ingested". My bad..

Rob

M. Ranjit Mathews

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Oct 8, 1999, 3:00:00 AM10/8/99
to
Paul DeMone wrote:

> Zalman Stern wrote:
> >
> > I'd write more, but I'm laughing too hard. Will they call the 1GHz version
> > Unobtanium?

Why didn't they call it Sexium ?

> Its all unobtainium for now.

It's jinxed. Hexium, that is.

Joe Pfeiffer

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Oct 8, 1999, 3:00:00 AM10/8/99
to
nx...@po.cwru.edu (Natarajan Krishnaswami) writes:
>
> I propose Capsicum!

Now, there's a hot idea! (note where I'm posting from)
--
Joseph J. Pfeiffer, Jr., Ph.D. Phone -- (505) 646-1605
Department of Computer Science FAX -- (505) 646-1002
New Mexico State University http://www.cs.nmsu.edu/~pfeiffer

Natarajan Krishnaswami

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Oct 9, 1999, 3:00:00 AM10/9/99
to
On Fri, 08 Oct 1999 19:49:39 -0500, M. Ranjit Mathews <ran...@realtime.net> wrote:
> It's jinxed. Hexium, that is.

I propose Capsicum!

<N/>
--
I feel so semantic today...
-- Eric A. Meyer

simon...@my-deja.com

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Oct 9, 1999, 3:00:00 AM10/9/99
to
Since Intel like rivers, there is a river in Colorado
called 'Cache la Poudre' (hide the powder).

Zalman Stern wrote:
> I'd write more, but I'm laughing too hard. Will they call the 1GHz
> version Unobtanium?
>

> -Z-


Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.

Thomas Tonino

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Oct 9, 1999, 3:00:00 AM10/9/99
to
Rob Barris wrote:

> http://www.uilondon.org/ci3_plu.htm says, "no worse than any other heavy
> metal if ingested". My bad..

Sure... we do not believe what Intel tells us, so why would we believe
this intitute. To quote http://www.uilondon.org/ui-info.htm "The
Institute promotes the peaceful use of nuclear energy..."

Alpha particles may get stopped by a glove, but that is not the end of
the story. Enery is conserved when thes particles hit your glove and
lead to heating and emission of gamma radiation.

Still I do believe that most of Plutonium's danger is radiological, not
chemical. But I wouldn't ingest any of it, thank you, even though the
Uranium Institute claims: "In commercial power plant or research
applications, plutonium generally exists as the compound plutonium
dioxide (PuO2), a very stable ceramic material which is extremely
insoluble in water or body fluids, reducing the chemical toxicity to
negligible levels, unless inhaled."


Thomas

Sander Vesik

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Oct 9, 1999, 3:00:00 AM10/9/99
to
Paul Dietz <di...@comm.mot.com> wrote:
> In article <7tkgn6$7...@dfw-ixnews4.ix.netcom.com>,
> Robert Barris <rba...@netcom.com> wrote:

>> IIRC "Pu" is deadly for its chemical behavior once inhaled, the
>> radioactivity is secondary at that point.

> This is a common myth. No, the danger is due to its


> radioactivity. Its chemistry is important in that
> it affects how/where the element stays in the body,
> and so affects the radiation dose.

It's chemistry makes it go to the places you want it least, or namely
bone marrow, liver, ...

> Paul


Martin Knoblauch

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Oct 10, 1999, 3:00:00 AM10/10/99
to
M. Ranjit Mathews wrote in message <37FE9122...@realtime.net>...

>
>Why didn't they call it Sexium ?
>

now, aren't they american? That would make "Sex" a very un-PC prefix.

Martin

Maynard Handley

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Oct 11, 1999, 3:00:00 AM10/11/99
to
In article <37FF224C...@bio.vu.nl>, Thomas Tonino
<tto...@bio.vu.nl> wrote:

>Rob Barris wrote:
>
>> http://www.uilondon.org/ci3_plu.htm says, "no worse than any other heavy
>> metal if ingested". My bad..
>
>Sure... we do not believe what Intel tells us, so why would we believe
>this intitute. To quote http://www.uilondon.org/ui-info.htm "The
>Institute promotes the peaceful use of nuclear energy..."
>
>Alpha particles may get stopped by a glove, but that is not the end of
>the story. Enery is conserved when thes particles hit your glove and
>lead to heating and emission of gamma radiation.

Oh for crying out loud.
Are you seriously claiming that holding plutonium in your hand makes your
hand hot enough to emit gamma rays? Do you have any idea just how hot your
hand has to be to emit gammas?

>Still I do believe that most of Plutonium's danger is radiological, not
>chemical. But I wouldn't ingest any of it, thank you, even though the
>Uranium Institute claims: "In commercial power plant or research
>applications, plutonium generally exists as the compound plutonium
>dioxide (PuO2), a very stable ceramic material which is extremely
>insoluble in water or body fluids, reducing the chemical toxicity to
>negligible levels, unless inhaled."

Well that's a relief. I believe in getting all my chemical and physical
information from usenet individuals who came across it in a vision, rather
than bothering with those pesky scientific experiments.

Maynard

Thomas Tonino

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Oct 11, 1999, 3:00:00 AM10/11/99
to
Maynard Handley wrote:

> >Alpha particles may get stopped by a glove, but that is not the end of
> >the story. Enery is conserved when thes particles hit your glove and
> >lead to heating and emission of gamma radiation.

> Are you seriously claiming that holding plutonium in your hand makes your


> hand hot enough to emit gamma rays? Do you have any idea just how hot your
> hand has to be to emit gammas?

Never heard of bremsstrahlung? When charged particles change direction
they emit electromagnitic waves. If they change direction quickly - like
when they bounce on a nucleus - the radiation can have high enough enery
to be X-ray or gamma radiation. Heavy nuclei definitely work better than
light ones. Also called 'Braking Radiation'.

> >[ I'm not going to ingest plutonium, Thank You, just on a hunch]



> Well that's a relief. I believe in getting all my chemical and physical
> information from usenet individuals who came across it in a vision, rather
> than bothering with those pesky scientific experiments.

I believe in using common sense and being careful with stuff that has
proven dangerous in the past. Or would people at the Uranium Institute
have done experiments with humans ingesting this safe and inert PuO2?


Thomas

Natarajan Krishnaswami

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Oct 11, 1999, 3:00:00 AM10/11/99
to
On Sat, 09 Oct 1999 13:09:00 +0200, Thomas Tonino <tto...@bio.vu.nl> wrote:
> Alpha particles

Hah, every thread must eventually mention the Alpha.

Jonathan Rozes

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Oct 11, 1999, 3:00:00 AM10/11/99
to
Look what Thomas Tonino said on Mon, 11 Oct 1999 13:44:59 GMT
in article <3801B19B...@bio.vu.nl>:

> Maynard Handley wrote:
>
>> >Alpha particles may get stopped by a glove, but that is not the end of
>> >the story. Enery is conserved when thes particles hit your glove and
>> >lead to heating and emission of gamma radiation.
>
>> Are you seriously claiming that holding plutonium in your hand makes your
>> hand hot enough to emit gamma rays? Do you have any idea just how hot your
>> hand has to be to emit gammas?
>
> Never heard of bremsstrahlung? When charged particles change direction
> they emit electromagnitic waves. If they change direction quickly - like
> when they bounce on a nucleus - the radiation can have high enough enery
> to be X-ray or gamma radiation. Heavy nuclei definitely work better than
> light ones. Also called 'Braking Radiation'.

Aren't alpha particles just a bit too big, fat and slow to cause
bremsstrahlung emission?

jonathan
--
+++ Jonathan Rozes, System Administrator, Will Vinton Studios

Maynard Handley

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Oct 11, 1999, 3:00:00 AM10/11/99
to
In article <3801B19B...@bio.vu.nl>, Thomas Tonino
<tto...@bio.vu.nl> wrote:

>Maynard Handley wrote:
>
>> >Alpha particles may get stopped by a glove, but that is not the end of
>> >the story. Enery is conserved when thes particles hit your glove and
>> >lead to heating and emission of gamma radiation.
>
>> Are you seriously claiming that holding plutonium in your hand makes your
>> hand hot enough to emit gamma rays? Do you have any idea just how hot your
>> hand has to be to emit gammas?
>
>Never heard of bremsstrahlung? When charged particles change direction
>they emit electromagnitic waves. If they change direction quickly - like
>when they bounce on a nucleus - the radiation can have high enough enery
>to be X-ray or gamma radiation. Heavy nuclei definitely work better than
>light ones. Also called 'Braking Radiation'.

You said, and I quote, "lead to heating and emission of gamma radiation"
which implies thermal radiation.
Excited electrons generate bremsstrahlung. Slow moving alphas do not.

>> >[ I'm not going to ingest plutonium, Thank You, just on a hunch]
>
>> Well that's a relief. I believe in getting all my chemical and physical
>> information from usenet individuals who came across it in a vision, rather
>> than bothering with those pesky scientific experiments.
>
>I believe in using common sense and being careful with stuff that has
>proven dangerous in the past. Or would people at the Uranium Institute

And when did plutonium oxide prove dangerous in the past in terms of the
issue being discussed, ie can it poison people?
I object to your twisting of words to accomplish some political agenda.

Zalman Stern

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Oct 11, 1999, 3:00:00 AM10/11/99
to
Natarajan Krishnaswami <nx...@po.cwru.edu> wrote:
: Hah, every thread must eventually mention the Alpha.

Perhaps that was why the 21264 was delayed. They went so fast that when you
turned them off, the Alpha stopping generated too many gamma rays and hence
was a radiation danger.

-Z-

Eric Werme - replace nospam with werme

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Oct 11, 1999, 3:00:00 AM10/11/99
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Chris.omitt...@arm.andthisbit.com (Chris Brown) writes:

>In article <7ticov$c...@sis.cambridge.arm.com>,


>>Dave Hansen <dha...@btree.com> wrote:
>>>I suspect it's as in "idea," the goal being to remind you of titanium,
>>>which is supposed to evoke images of strength and value.
>>
>>And lightbulbs?

>Sorry, that's tungsten. Just ignore me and I'll go back to sleep. :-)

You were probably thinking of light reflecting off white walls (TiO2 is
the standard white pigment in paint).

Sounds like whitewash too me, but I think that's something different.
--
<> Eric (Ric) Werme <> The above is unlikely to contain <>
<> ROT-13 addresses: <> official claims or policies of <>
<> <jr...@mx3.qrp.pbz> <> Compaq Computer Corp. <>
<> <jr...@zrqvnbar.arg> <> http://people.ne.mediaone.net/werme <>

Dan Pop

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Oct 12, 1999, 3:00:00 AM10/12/99
to
In <37FF224C...@bio.vu.nl> Thomas Tonino <tto...@bio.vu.nl> writes:

>Still I do believe that most of Plutonium's danger is radiological, not
>chemical.

Encyclopaedia Britannica has some interesting data:

Plutonium and all elements of higher atomic number are
radiological poisons because of their high rate of alpha
emission and their specific absorption in bone marrow. The
maximum amount of plutonium-239 that can be indefinitely
maintained in an adult without significant injury is 0.008
microcuries (equal to 0.13 micrograms). Longer-lived
isotopes plutonium-242 and plutonium-244 are valuable in
chemical and metallurgical research. Plutonium-238 can be
manufactured to harness its heat of radioactive decay to
operate thermoelectric and thermionic devices that are small
and lightweight but long-lived (the half-life of
plutonium-238 is 86 years).

Dan
--
Dan Pop
CERN, IT Division
Email: Dan...@cern.ch
Mail: CERN - IT, Bat. 31 1-014, CH-1211 Geneve 23, Switzerland

Thomas Tonino

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Oct 12, 1999, 3:00:00 AM10/12/99
to
Maynard Handley wrote:

> Excited electrons generate bremsstrahlung. Slow moving alphas do not.

http://iptsg.epfl.ch/aps/BAPSTSF98/abs/S1700002.html

am...@nsof.co.il-n0spam

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Oct 12, 1999, 3:00:00 AM10/12/99
to
I tried Webster's dictionary. "Itanium" didn't produce meaningful results,
so I tried its root word "itan" and got the following:

No entries found that match your query.
Here is a list of similar words.
48 words found.
To view an entry in the list, highlight it and click on GO TO.
Adam
adam
add-on
Aden
aden
aden-
-athon
athon
-ation
ation
atom
attain
Auden
autumn
eadem
eaten
Eaton
Edam
Eden
Edom
Edwin
ethion
Eton
idem
-idin
idin
idiom
-idium
idium
item
oaten
odeum
Odin
odium
oidium
otium
Utahn
Wadden
wait on
wet down
Weyden
widen
witan
within
Witten
Woden
wooden
Wotton

(I particularly like "odium" and "wait on"!....)

--
Amos Shapir
Paper: nSOF Parallel Software, Ltd.
Givat-Hashlosha 48800, Israel
Tel: +972 3 9388551 Fax: +972 3 9388552 GEO: 34 55 15 E / 32 05 52 N

Jay Lessert

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Oct 12, 1999, 3:00:00 AM10/12/99
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In article <brucehoult-07...@bruce.bgh>,
Bruce Hoult <bruce...@pobox.com> wrote:
>In article <handleym-061...@handma3.apple.com>,

>hand...@ricochet.net (Maynard Handley) wrote:
>
>> All fun and games, but people laughed at the Pentium name too. Lots of
>> moaning about how 586 was good enough. That name change seems to have
>> worked out pretty well for Intel.
>
>It seems different this time. I don't recall anyone laughing at the
>Pentium name as a laughable thing in itself.

Then you've a short memory. :-)

It certainly was laughed at on Usenet... and my Intel engineering
friends & acquaintances just sort of shrugged, smiled, and mumbled
something like "they're marketroids, what d'ya expect?".

--
Jay Lessert Portland, Oregon USA j...@teleport.com

Jonathan Rozes

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Oct 12, 1999, 3:00:00 AM10/12/99
to
Look what Thomas Tonino said on Tue, 12 Oct 1999 15:20:07 GMT
in article <38031967...@bio.vu.nl>:

> Maynard Handley wrote:
>
>> Excited electrons generate bremsstrahlung. Slow moving alphas do not.
>
> http://iptsg.epfl.ch/aps/BAPSTSF98/abs/S1700002.html

This method depends on a 2.5 MeV proton beam in order to knock out the
K and L shells of the target atom. When the vacancies are filled, x-rays
are produced. Will the 5.245 MeV alpha particles naturally emitted by
Pu-239 produce the same effect? In a layer of human skin?

Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz

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Oct 13, 1999, 3:00:00 AM10/13/99
to
Eric Werme - replace nospam with werme wrote:

> You were probably thinking of light reflecting off white walls (TiO2 is
> the standard white pigment in paint).

Filaments in incadecsent bulbs used to be made of Wolfram; I don't know
whether that's true any more.

> Sounds like whitewash too me, but I think that's something different.

Calcium, not Wolfram. Whitewash is not the same as the pigment in white
paint.

--

Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
Reply to host nsf (dot) gov, user smetz

Bill Todd

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Oct 13, 1999, 3:00:00 AM10/13/99
to

Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz <nos...@nsf.gov.invalid> wrote in message
news:3804D8ED...@nsf.gov.invalid...

> Eric Werme - replace nospam with werme wrote:
>
> > You were probably thinking of light reflecting off white walls (TiO2 is
> > the standard white pigment in paint).
>
> Filaments in incadecsent bulbs used to be made of Wolfram; I don't know
> whether that's true any more.

Aren't Wolfram and Tungsten synonymous?

Paul DeMone

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Oct 13, 1999, 3:00:00 AM10/13/99
to

Eric Werme - replace nospam with werme wrote:

[snip]


> >Sorry, that's tungsten. Just ignore me and I'll go back to sleep. :-)
>

> You were probably thinking of light reflecting off white walls (TiO2 is
> the standard white pigment in paint).
>

> Sounds like whitewash too me, but I think that's something different.

TiO2 was also used in smoke generators on warships. Trying to
hide a big and unweildy EPIC battleship from a pack of SMT and
CMP dive bombers using a smoke screen might not be a bad allusion
for Itanium :)


All opinions strictly my own.
--
Paul W. DeMone The 801 experiment SPARCed an ARMs race of EPIC
Kanata, Ontario proportions to put more PRECISION and POWER into
dem...@mosaid.com architectures with MIPSed results but ALPHA's well
pde...@igs.net that ends well.

Maynard Handley

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Oct 13, 1999, 3:00:00 AM10/13/99
to
In article <38031967...@bio.vu.nl>, Thomas Tonino
<tto...@bio.vu.nl> wrote:

>Maynard Handley wrote:
>
>> Excited electrons generate bremsstrahlung. Slow moving alphas do not.
>
>http://iptsg.epfl.ch/aps/BAPSTSF98/abs/S1700002.html

I'm not sure quite what to make of this given only the abstract.
The mechanism involved seems to be to fire protons at material possessing
heavy elements, the protons interact with core electrons in the heavy
metals freeing them, and one of the higher-up electrons falls into the
vacant core slot generating X-rays. This is not bremsstrahlung.
More to the point, without information about cross-sections (ie how
frequently this happens) it's relevance to the problem being discussed is
marginal. We're dealing with QM---anything that's not explicitly prevented
by some symmetry or conservation law can happen. The real issue is, does
it happen frequently enough to be worth worrying about. Being able to
detect something with a gaggle of highly sophisticated instruments is
quite different from having biological effects.
For example you probably have natural carbon-14 in your bones cooking you
with radioactivity from the inside-out as we speak. Does this worry and
concern you?

Maynard

David Gay

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Oct 13, 1999, 3:00:00 AM10/13/99
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Jan Ingvoldstad <ja...@ifi.uio.no> writes:

> On Sat, 09 Oct 1999 06:44:07 GMT, simon...@my-deja.com said:
>
> > Since Intel like rivers, there is a river in Colorado
> > called 'Cache la Poudre' (hide the powder).
>
> No, that's not "hide the powder", since the first word is not a verb,
> but a noun. "Hide the powder" would be "cacher la poudre". The
> correct translation is "hiding place of powder".
>
> See also <URL: http://www.nps.gov/rivers/cachelapoudre.html>.

Sorry, but you're wrong, for modern French at least:

"Hiding place of powder" would be "Cache de poudre".
"Cache la poudre" reads as "Hide the powder", in the imperative tense.
"Cacher la poudre" is "To hide the powder".

I'd be somewhat surprised if "la" became "de" since 1820.

--
David Gay - Yet Another Starving Grad Student
dg...@cs.berkeley.edu

Jan Ingvoldstad

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Oct 14, 1999, 3:00:00 AM10/14/99
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On Sat, 09 Oct 1999 06:44:07 GMT, simon...@my-deja.com said:

> Since Intel like rivers, there is a river in Colorado
> called 'Cache la Poudre' (hide the powder).

No, that's not "hide the powder", since the first word is not a verb,
but a noun. "Hide the powder" would be "cacher la poudre". The
correct translation is "hiding place of powder".

Interestingly enough, the word "cache" also carries other meanings,
such as a quick-to-reach storage (more specifically a place for
provisions or similar) or a secure storage, which (I guess) is why
we're using that word for quick-to-reach memory in computers. This
makes a bit of sense, since walking from the cache to the main storage
usually is a longer walk, and not really that desirable, unless you
absolutely have to.

(Now, did that bring us any closer to being on topic? ;)
--
This is exactly how the World Wide Web works: the HTML files are the
pithy description on the paper tape, and your Web browser is Ronald
Reagan. The same is true of Graphical User Interfaces in general.
(Neal Stephenson, In the Beginning Was the Command Line, 1999)

cla...@yahoo.com

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Oct 14, 1999, 3:00:00 AM10/14/99
to
In article <7u2lv8$e0u$1...@pyrite.mv.net>,

"Bill Todd" <bill...@foo.mv.com> wrote:
>
> Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz <nos...@nsf.gov.invalid> wrote in message
> news:3804D8ED...@nsf.gov.invalid...
> > Eric Werme - replace nospam with werme wrote:
> >
> > > You were probably thinking of light reflecting off white walls
(TiO2 is
> > > the standard white pigment in paint).
> >
> > Filaments in incadecsent bulbs used to be made of Wolfram; I don't
know
> > whether that's true any more.
>
> Aren't Wolfram and Tungsten synonymous?
>


Yes same thing.

Jan Vorbrueggen

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Oct 14, 1999, 3:00:00 AM10/14/99
to
hand...@ricochet.net (Maynard Handley) writes:

> The mechanism involved seems to be to fire protons at material possessing
> heavy elements, the protons interact with core electrons in the heavy
> metals freeing them, and one of the higher-up electrons falls into the
> vacant core slot generating X-rays. This is not bremsstrahlung.

I think those are called Auger electrons.

> For example you probably have natural carbon-14 in your bones cooking you
> with radioactivity from the inside-out as we speak.

Potassium-40 is much worse - it accounts for about 40% of your natural
radiation budget. And you can't avoid it - without potassium, all cells
in your body, and in particular your neurons, will cease to function.

Jan

Jan Vorbrueggen

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Oct 14, 1999, 3:00:00 AM10/14/99
to
"Bill Todd" <bill...@foo.mv.com> writes:

> Aren't Wolfram and Tungsten synonymous?

Indeed. I thought German was the only language which used Wolfram.

Jan

Anders Sundin

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Oct 14, 1999, 3:00:00 AM10/14/99
to
"Bill Todd" <bill...@foo.mv.com> wrote:

>Aren't Wolfram and Tungsten synonymous?

Wolfram means "wolf's soot" in german while tungsten is germanic for
"heavy stone" (it has nothing to do with heavy rock).

-Anders

--
Anders Sundin, Org. Chem. 2, Lund University, Box 124, S-22100 Lund, Sweden
e-mail: Anders...@orgk2.lth.se voice: +46 462224185 fax: +46 462228209

Thomas Tonino

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Oct 14, 1999, 3:00:00 AM10/14/99
to
Jan Vorbrueggen wrote:

> Potassium-40 is much worse - it accounts for about 40% of your natural
> radiation budget. And you can't avoid it - without potassium, all cells
> in your body, and in particular your neurons, will cease to function.

mm... something new for the health food industry? You heard it here
first, so it is not patentable any more:

Potassium-40 free food and/or potassium-40-free potassium cloride to
help wash the evil potassium-40 ions from your body.


Thomas

Chris Russ

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Oct 14, 1999, 3:00:00 AM10/14/99
to
Let's see, new naming conventions:

OTassium.

Olfram.


Ydrogren (androgeny. Bad idea)
Elium
Ithium (any of Tolkien's elves around here?)
Eryllium
Oron (Add an 'M')
Arbon
Itrogen
Xygen (Kinda cool. I like this one)
Luorine
Eon (A lot time until we ship)
Odium (A *really* bad name)
Agnesium (for all of you agnostics out there)
Luminum (Glows in the dark. I like it)
Ilicon (is this a convention?)
Hosphorus
Ulpher
Hlorine
Rgon (Bug spray?)
...
Others that would start with the letter "I":
Ickel
Ilver
Ismuth
Insteinium


My favorites are Xygen (probably makes a good company name) and Luminium.
;-)

-Chris Russ

Dave Hansen

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Oct 14, 1999, 3:00:00 AM10/14/99
to
On Thu, 14 Oct 1999 10:30:03 -0400, Chris Russ <jc...@aol.com> wrote:

>Let's see, new naming conventions:

[...]


>My favorites are Xygen (probably makes a good company name)

Someone else obviously thinks so, too. The xygen.com domain has been
registered, though there's no info there yet...

> and Luminium.

This seems to still be open. Better act fast! ;-)

Regards,

-=Dave
Just my (10-010) cents
I can barely speak for myself, so I certainly can't speak for B-Tree.
Change is inevitable. Progress is not.

Erik Corry

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Oct 14, 1999, 3:00:00 AM10/14/99
to
"Dave Hansen" <3806009f....@192.168.2.34> wrote:

>> and Luminium.

> This seems to still be open. Better act fast! ;-)

Luminium.com is taken, and is much cooler :-).

--
"You couldn't deny that, even if you tried with both hands." -- The Red Queen
--
Erik "BE bigot" Corry er...@arbat.com

Erik Corry

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Oct 14, 1999, 3:00:00 AM10/14/99
to
"Erik Corry" <7u5oga$olm$1...@ec.arbat.com> wrote:
> "Dave Hansen" <3806009f....@192.168.2.34> wrote:

>>> and Luminium.

>> This seems to still be open. Better act fast! ;-)

> Luminium.com is taken, and is much cooler :-).

Ooops I misread what you quoted as luminum. Still, Luminium.com has been
gone about a month. Now why won't this blasted newsread let me cancel :-(.

--
"It's not so much an afterlife, more a sort of apres-vie." --DNA
--
Erik Corry er...@arbat.com Ceterum censeo, Microsoftem esse delendam!

Bill Todd

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Oct 15, 1999, 3:00:00 AM10/15/99
to

Jan Vorbrueggen <j...@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de> wrote in
message news:y4g0zeo...@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de...

> "Bill Todd" <bill...@foo.mv.com> writes:
>
> > Aren't Wolfram and Tungsten synonymous?
>
> Indeed. I thought German was the only language which used Wolfram.
>
> Jan

I think (based on use in old SF, primarily: I'm not *that* old) it may have
been fairly common in America before WWII - perhaps not surprising given the
degree to which Germany dominated so many scientific fields back then.

Zalman Stern

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Oct 15, 1999, 3:00:00 AM10/15/99
to
Bill Todd <bill...@foo.mv.com> wrote:
: Jan Vorbrueggen <j...@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de> wrote in
:> > Aren't Wolfram and Tungsten synonymous?

:>
:> Indeed. I thought German was the only language which used Wolfram.

: I think (based on use in old SF, primarily: I'm not *that* old) it may have


: been fairly common in America before WWII - perhaps not surprising given the
: degree to which Germany dominated so many scientific fields back then.

The name Wolfram gets mentioned because the chemical symbol for Tungsten is
'W'. (I've always assumed the periodic table was fairly international, with
the same symbols used despite differing languages. But I have no idea if
that is true.) I expect anyone who's taken a decent chemistry class knows
both names. Though I doubt many people here call the element Wolfram
outside of explaining the symbol. And of course the first association for
Wolfram these days is Mathematica.

-Z-

Dave Hansen

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Oct 15, 1999, 3:00:00 AM10/15/99