Renesas GreenPAK Sales/FAE Support

[Rick C]

I've been considering a Greenpak device or two or even three, in a respin of a new design. I've identified three functions that the Greenpak devices could replace on my board, but not all in the same part! LOL

I'd like to discuss this design with an FAE or salesperson, but I can't seem to get any replies. The Renesas website was clearly created by pointy haired bosses in legion with artistic web designers, with little regard to the process of sharing information. The contact page has controls for specifying your region of the world, but they seem to do nothing.

Does anyone have a US contact for these parts? One of the things I want to learn about is what happens once you hand them a design file for a preprogrammed part. They basically say, you give them the design file, and a few months later you get a part. No mention of part numbering, marking, etc.

I'd like this to become a private label part, with no Greenpak markings. Just a customer part number. Anyone done that before?

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Rick C.

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[Theo]

Rick C <gnuarm.del...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Does anyone have a US contact for these parts? One of the things I want
> to learn about is what happens once you hand them a design file for a
> preprogrammed part. They basically say, you give them the design file,
> and a few months later you get a part. No mention of part numbering,
> marking, etc.
>
> I'd like this to become a private label part, with no Greenpak markings. Just a customer part number. Anyone done that before?

There's a forum (the TLS cert has expired on 30 September):

"All GPAKs with the customers' designs have their own PartNumber, which is
marked on the top of the IC. Since SLG46620G is the TSOP package, the
PartNumber written on the top of it will include five digits "XXXXX". The
digits are assigned by DialogSemiconductors and they are unique for every
particular IC. However, the smaller packages can't fit the five digits, so
additionally the IC will be given two-letter code, which accords to the
previously assigned PartNumber.

Also, there will be marked the design revision. Typically, it consists of
two letters, which differentiate the project revisions.

So you don't need to add some extra marks, the ICs will be marked and you
can easily distinguish them. "

https://support.dialog-semiconductor.com/forums/post/greenpak-and-greenfet-questions/part-markings


Theo

[Rick C]

Thanks. That post is what I was looking for. The subsequent exchange actually answers my questions.

"Thank you for the good response. This is important information; I am glad there is a way to distinguish the parts.

Our intention is for the Dialog semi products to become the platform for us to build our products. The power and flexibility is unmatched.
However, some of our products might be just "single chip only", and thus it is desirable to have our own custom logos + PN's engraved on it.
What would you suggest here?"


"RobertLengyel,

Unfortunately, we can't provide you the product with your own logos and PN engraved on it. If we did start to accept custom marking specs from our customers, I would be concerned that the quality level would not be as high, as we would be forcing many people inside Dialog to do something that was non-standard, which always adds extra risk for mistakes. The production processes are optimized for the highest throughput and lowest cost, so we do not allow for any other marking style other than our own."

Kind of a weird reply, "forcing many people inside Dialog to do something that was non-standard". If they made private labeling an option in their process, it would not be "non-standard".

To be honest, I'm rather turned off by the near total lack of communication on the part of Renesas and their distributors. It seems they think communication is a one way street.

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Rick C.

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[Rick C]

I did hear back from Newark finally. They gave me the URL for the Renesas web page for the Greenpak products. lol

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Rick C.

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[boB]

On Mon, 10 Oct 2022 11:19:56 -0700 (PDT), Rick C
<gnuarm.del...@gmail.com> wrote:

>I did hear back from Newark finally. They gave me the URL for the Renesas web page for the Greenpak products. lol

We use 2 GP6s per product for our new stuff. Love them !

First heard about them from one of Avnet's applications guys.

I have also had talks with one of their applications guys at Dialog
before Resesas took over.

boB

[Rick C]

Do you program them? Are they single time programmable or multiple? Do you buy them preprogrammed?

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Rick C.

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[boB]

On Mon, 24 Oct 2022 14:08:01 -0700 (PDT), Rick C

<gnuarm.del...@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Sunday, October 23, 2022 at 4:34:21 PM UTC-4, boB wrote:
>> On Mon, 10 Oct 2022 11:19:56 -0700 (PDT), Rick C
>> <gnuarm.del...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> >I did hear back from Newark finally. They gave me the URL for the Renesas web page for the Greenpak products. lol
>> We use 2 GP6s per product for our new stuff. Love them !
>>
>> First heard about them from one of Avnet's applications guys.
>>
>> I have also had talks with one of their applications guys at Dialog
>> before Resesas took over.
>
>Do you program them? Are they single time programmable or multiple? Do you buy them preprogrammed?

You can get them pre-programmed but so far, we program them ourselves.

We are expecting to be able to re-program them in circuit using the
I2C bus from the processor. Actually, what happens there is that the
original programming stays and you overwrite the RAM LTUs is how I
think it works. I have not had a chance to get that working yet.

I really like these parts !

boB

[Rick C]

My design has no processor. It has an FPGA, but with no external connection through conventional channels. Programming the device on board would require a custom interface... very undesirable. There's also the small issue of the fact that we are looking at building thousands of these per year. I'm planning on a redesign of the test fixtures to further automate the testing so we can load 160 UUTs into a chassis, and do test overnight as burn-in. The FPGAs will be preprogrammed. Having to program the tiny power supply chip (the one that might be useful to me has 4 LDOs) would be a major drawback. In fact, it might be difficult since it is providing power to the rest of the board.

I might provide a couple of test points which can be used for spring loaded contacts should there arise a need to reprogram units in the field. The current board design has such a connection for the FPGA, but that's part of the connector interface defined by the application, so not an add on. This board is very small and very tight.

I don't know if this application is such a good idea for a first go at using these parts. It's very crucial to the functioning of the entire board.

--

Rick C.

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[David Brown]

I haven't used GreenPAK devices, but they do look interesting. We had a
distributor FAE here recently who was planning to talk about them, but
we used so much time on other topics that we didn't get round to it.
And another distributor has been telling us about the benefits of
Renesas microcontrollers and Renesas as a supplier.

If you program the parts yourself, how do you do that? Do you use the
GreenPAK boards for programming? That would seem fine for small
quantities or development, but not great for production. It must also
be an issue when you need to change the program during development.

Programming in-circuit using I²C would be practical for us in many
cases, but it makes a big difference if it is volatile or non-volatile.
Volatile programming would need to be done from a microcontroller on
power-on, and that obviously won't work if the GreenPAK is used to
control board power. But programming the device's flash via a small
connector and external I²C master could work as part of a board's test
and programming procedure.

[Rick C]

GreenPak is like the Lattice FPGAs, non-volatile storage that is loaded into RAM at power on. The Greenpak devices have two types, OTP and multiple time programmable.

I could get some real use out of them, but the parts are a bit more specialized than I'd like. I could use an op amp with filtering (one part), 5V to 3V digital signal conversion (another part) and several LDOs (yet another part). The digital input/output voltages are limited to whatever is defined by the power supply. While they talk about combing digital and analog, by "analog" they mostly mean comparators. There's only one part with useful opamps (maybe a couple of flavors of that part, I don't recall).

Renesas has not done them any favors. Their web site is a PITA. The selection guides are not easy to use. Like many companies, you need to know the products before you can use the selection guides.

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Rick C.

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[David Brown]

Isn't that the most common way to handle programmable logic these days?
(Of course, not all devices have the non-volatile storage on-chip.)

> The Greenpak devices have two types,
> OTP and multiple time programmable.

Yes, that's what I thought. I don't expect to be using enough volume
for the OTP versions, and of course there is the strong tradition of
changing software (meaning anything programmable) right up until the
last moment. But maybe they have fast enough turnaround and low enough
minimum order quantities for factory programmed versions to be suitable
for some of our customers. Certainly it would make production a little
more efficient.

>
> I could get some real use out of them, but the parts are a bit more
> specialized than I'd like. I could use an op amp with filtering (one
> part), 5V to 3V digital signal conversion (another part) and several
> LDOs (yet another part). The digital input/output voltages are
> limited to whatever is defined by the power supply. While they talk
> about combing digital and analog, by "analog" they mostly mean
> comparators. There's only one part with useful opamps (maybe a
> couple of flavors of that part, I don't recall).
>
> Renesas has not done them any favors. Their web site is a PITA. The
> selection guides are not easy to use. Like many companies, you need
> to know the products before you can use the selection guides.
>

Thanks for the review. I don't currently have a design in the pipeline
for which they would be a good solution, but it's always nice to keep
different ideas in mind. And it's always fun to play with new toys :-)

[Rick C]

I don't think you understand. Some parts are OTP, others are multiple. You don't get a choice.

> and of course there is the strong tradition of
> changing software (meaning anything programmable) right up until the
> last moment. But maybe they have fast enough turnaround and low enough
> minimum order quantities for factory programmed versions to be suitable
> for some of our customers. Certainly it would make production a little
> more efficient.

They have a process, and I've not heard any indication they are fast about it. I believe it takes weeks to turn around a new design and sign off on all the approvals.

> > I could get some real use out of them, but the parts are a bit more
> > specialized than I'd like. I could use an op amp with filtering (one
> > part), 5V to 3V digital signal conversion (another part) and several
> > LDOs (yet another part). The digital input/output voltages are
> > limited to whatever is defined by the power supply. While they talk
> > about combing digital and analog, by "analog" they mostly mean
> > comparators. There's only one part with useful opamps (maybe a
> > couple of flavors of that part, I don't recall).
> >
> > Renesas has not done them any favors. Their web site is a PITA. The
> > selection guides are not easy to use. Like many companies, you need
> > to know the products before you can use the selection guides.
> >
> Thanks for the review. I don't currently have a design in the pipeline
> for which they would be a good solution, but it's always nice to keep
> different ideas in mind. And it's always fun to play with new toys :-)

--

Rick C.

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[David Brown]

OK. I had assumed the same parts were available in both varieties. Or
that within a family, the biggest (superset) part would have a flash
variant while the other parts would be OTP only. This sort of
arrangement is common for devices with OTP options.

>
>> and of course there is the strong tradition of
>> changing software (meaning anything programmable) right up until the
>> last moment. But maybe they have fast enough turnaround and low enough
>> minimum order quantities for factory programmed versions to be suitable
>> for some of our customers. Certainly it would make production a little
>> more efficient.
>
> They have a process, and I've not heard any indication they are fast about it. I believe it takes weeks to turn around a new design and sign off on all the approvals.
>

"Weeks" sounds quite fast for such a process - and with component lead
time as it is at the moment, that does not sound worse than many normal
components. Of course, 52 weeks is still "weeks"...

[Dave Nadler]

Perhaps this Renesas marketing presentation is of interest:
https://www.electronicsweekly.com/news/electronica/electronica-video-interview-renesas-on-greenpak-programmable-mixed-signal-matrix-2022-11/

[Rick C]

Thanks, but I'm not in marketing. I'm an engineer, so an engineering presentation might be better.

I did finally have a conversation with someone and they simply don't have very many parts that would be of use. The audio parts don't do anything useful for me, that my op amps don't already do. Their level shifting parts (dual power supply) don't do anything that other level shifter parts don't do. They have an LDO part that might be of use. It can also provide an inverter needed in the reset path. So there is some very minimal about of functional incorporation in this one part.

It seems the product line is oriented around the programmable logic. If you can't make good use of that, the rest of the device is of much less utility... unless that combination just happens to fit what you need.

--

Rick C.

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