senseless waste of bandwidth

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Grant Griffin

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Mar 1, 1999, 3:00:00 AM3/1/99
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Friends,

I followed the recent thread "Turn OFF the HTML BS please" with interest
though I never participated in it because I don't want to encourage
people to curse on Usenet because let's face it we're all adults here
and there really isn't any need to curse because heck there are just
much better friggin ways for us to express ourselves here in a public
venue which is read worldwide by people of All Nations and All Cultures
however that's not to say that I want to limit your freedom of
expression because let's face it nobody died and put me in charge of
Usenet so it really isn't my place to set any rules like for example if
I wanted people to turn off the HTML I guess I could express that
sentiment in some mature sort of way to try to build a concensus but I
still would have to respect the freedom Usenet offers us to post
literally anything we want because let's face it who can stop us but
that being said the thing I really tuned in on was this whole "waste of
bandwith" thing which pops up on Usenet from time-to-time and one can't
help but notice that each time this topic gets discussed it seems to be
a waste of bandwidth so I'm not here to discuss bandwidth so much as
waste and to tell you about some of my experiences in that vein like the
time I went on a tour of the Ben and Jerry's ice cream plant in Vermont
and the gal there that gave the tour said something that made a lot of
sense to me so I'd like to share it with you here namely that we should
all "reduce, reuse, and recycle" which one can hardly disagree with take
reducing for example, which of us can't get along with a little less and
of course there's reusing which seems like a sensible thing to do like
for example why do we always throw out our VCR the first time it breaks
why can't we get it fixed because it costs more to fix it than to buy a
new one OK so that was a bad example and then there's recycling which I
think everybody can agree is a good thing like for example when I walk
down the hall at work carrying a big box of empty pop cans to carry them
to the recycle bin a get a good feeling not only because I'm saving the
environment and stuff like that but also because I'm wasting my
employer's time which is far more important which really brings me to my
next point which is that America used to the the Land of Waste and that
was What Made America Great and we all had big scary cars which had lots
of steel and chrome and even tail fins but then the OPEC decided that
they could make more money by not selling us as much oil as they used to
which seems to defy common sense but it just goes to show how smart
those OPEC guys are because it really worked so all of a sudden
Americans were willing to give up steel and chrome and tailfins for
little economy cars that didn't take a whole lot of gas so you didn't
have to stand in a long line at the gas station but you still had to
stand in line at the Toyota dealer so it makes you wonder how much time
those guys really saved but in any event the Japanese began to eat the
lunch of the American car manufacturers because they were still pumping
out big wasteful steel-and-chrome monstrocities though they had given up
on tailfins a long time ago and then there was the whole quality issue
but to make a long story short Detroit eventually figured out over a
long period of time how to make relatively high-quality, fuel-efficient
cars that people liked almost as well as Toyotas which seem to have
something of a fanatical following if I may editorialize just a bit and
I don't know if the Toyota fans know that they now make Toyota's in
America which just goes to show that you can take the Toyota out of
Japan but you can't take Japan out of Asia but now that people of gotten
used to Toyotas or at least are driving American cars which get good gas
milage Americans over a period of years have caught on to the fact that
it is Good not to be wasteful though people few articulate this as well
as Ben and Jerry inasmuch as they encouraged us to "reduce, reuse, and
recycle" for example they told us that if they ever end up with any
excess ice cream or they have a batch that doesn't turn out just right
they sell it to the local hog farmers who feed it to the hogs and the
hogs just love it but then again what else did you expect the hog to do
but speaking of waste I must say that Ben and Jerry's ice cream is a
tremendous waste of money inasmuch as it costs so darn much but if the
hogs don't have to pay as much as we do I can see why they like it so
and even though I complain about Ben and Jerry's itself I still like the
concept of "reduce, reuse, and recycle" and I have tried to apply this
in my own life starting with reducing the amount of Ben and Jerry's ice
cream I eat but a lot of other Americans have begun to reduce waste
which was once a lifestyle for us and was once something that made us
Proud to Be Americans like for example we now recycle pop cans and
newspapers and even plastic milk cartons which they've probably been
doing in Europe for years but it is a big step forward for us Americans
though much as I agree with the concept of reducing waste I think the
true reason we Americans are doing it is a little strange if you'll
paron me saying so that reason being that now that we have cheap oil
again our Nation's Most Precious Resource has become The Landfill yes
you heard me right The Landfill now who would ever think that Landfill's
would ever become our Nation's Most Precious National Resource because
admittedly there is only a certain amout of oil in the ground there
seems to be no limit to the number of Landfills we could dig up because
let's face it a Landfill is nothing more than a hole and if there's one
thing you can dig up anywhere you plant your shovel it's a hole but of
course it's not really that simple because of the fact that nobody wants
to live near a landfill because they smell bad like the hogs that eat
Ben and Jerry's ice cream and they pollute the ground water like the
hogs that eat Ben and Jerry's ice cream so in that context maybe
Landfill's really are Our Nation's Most Precious National Resource so
that just puts us back to the idea that we should "reduce, reuse, and
recycle" because if we don't throw so much stuff away we can conserve
Our Nation's Most Precious National Resource although I gotta tell you
that if landfills had only the stuff in them that we recycle like
newspapers, pop cans, and plastic milk bottles nobody would really mind
living next to one because those things don't smell nearly as bad as Ben
and Jerry's hogs and let's face it pop cans don't pollute ground water
but this just brings me to the main point of all this which is that
since we can no longer waste anything of any kind given that the
Landfill is Our Nation's Most Precious National Resource then I think we
at least ought to be able to waste bandwidth because you don't even have
to bury that after you're done with it though to be fair there are
probably lots of fiber optic cables with lots of bandwidth which are
buried and archeologists a thousand years from now will dig up and ask
themselves, "what did these people have to talk about that was so
important" and they'll scratch their heads and keep on digging but for
the time being I think we Americans should get back to our Heritage of
Waste and never loose sight of What Made This Country Great which let's
be honest about it involved a great talent for waste which again brings
me back to the main point which is that in these latter days of cheap
computing and instant telelcommunications the least we can do is to
treat ourselves to a little waste in terms of bandwidth which when you
get right down to it really doesn't hurt anybody and even for those of
you who aren't Americans and who don't come from a culture and a
heritage of Waste I invite you to join me in this Noble American Pursuit
because much as John F. Kennedy went to Berlin and declared "Ich bin ein
Berliner" I invite you to declare "Ich bin ein American" and to
senselessly waste bandwidth wherever you find it.

<G>-rant
--
_____________________________________________________________________

Grant R. Griffin grant....@iowegian.com
Iowegian International Corporation http://www.iowegian.com
_____________________________________________________________________

Dan Henry

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Mar 1, 1999, 3:00:00 AM3/1/99
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Grant Griffin wrote:
>
> Friends,
>
> I followed the recent thread "Turn OFF the HTML BS please" with

===SNIP===

> senselessly waste bandwidth wherever you find it.
>

That was *one* impressively long sentence. Could you summarize it in 10
words or less for us?

Julian Brown

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Mar 1, 1999, 3:00:00 AM3/1/99
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In message <36DA56...@iowegian.com>
Grant Griffin <grant....@iowegian.com> wrote:
[snip]

> heritage of Waste I invite you to join me in this Noble American Pursuit
> because much as John F. Kennedy went to Berlin and declared "Ich bin ein
> Berliner" I invite you to declare "Ich bin ein American" and to
> senselessly waste bandwidth wherever you find it.
>

But I'm English, and so are quite a few other people here...

:-)

Julian

--
.-------------------------------------------------.
| Julian Brown, Queens' College Cambridge |
| <jt...@cam.ac.uk> http://jtb20.quns.cam.ac.uk |
'-------------------------------------------------'

Jerry Avins

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Mar 1, 1999, 3:00:00 AM3/1/99
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Oh, my GAWD! I don' know what to make of that. It can't be a sentence,
because there sure are a lot of subjects, but there's only one period
(.) . The only thing I can call it is a string. A <G>string, to be
precise. I'm not sure that it's reasonable to call it an article, but
I'm told that anything on Usenet is one by default. Speaking of
articles, they are very important parts of speech, and their use differs
between languages in subtle ways. In England, there is a difference
between being in the hospital and being in hospital. In German, there is
a difference between being Berliner, and being ein Berliner. "Ich bin
Berliner" means "I'm from Berlin." "Ich bin ein Berliner" means "I'm a
particularkindmadefamousinBerlin Puff Pastry." Kennedy got it wrong.

Jerry
--
Engineering is the art | Let's talk about what
of making what you want | you need; you may see
from things you can get. | how to do without it.
---------------------------------------------------------


Grant Griffin wrote:
>
> Friends,
>
> I followed the recent thread "Turn OFF the HTML BS please" with interest

...

Pet...@delete_this_for_reply_clubi.ie

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Mar 1, 1999, 3:00:00 AM3/1/99
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Julian Brown <jt...@cam.ac.uk> writes:

> In message <36DA56...@iowegian.com>
> Grant Griffin <grant....@iowegian.com> wrote:
> [snip]

> > heritage of Waste I invite you to join me in this Noble American Pursuit
> > because much as John F. Kennedy went to Berlin and declared "Ich bin ein
> > Berliner" I invite you to declare "Ich bin ein American" and to
> > senselessly waste bandwidth wherever you find it.
> >
>

> But I'm English, and so are quite a few other people here...

And some of us are Australian... with Irish connections. And neither
of those are American _or_ English!

:-)

--
Peter J. Kootsookos Phone : +353 87 207 7589
e-Muse Media E-mail: PeterK at clubi period ie

Spam-reading charges: $US 500.00 per item, higher for multiples.

Chris Hills

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Mar 1, 1999, 3:00:00 AM3/1/99
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>In message <36DA56...@iowegian.com>
> Grant Griffin <grant....@iowegian.com> wrote:
>[snip]
>> heritage of Waste I invite you to join me in this Noble American Pursuit
>> because much as John F. Kennedy went to Berlin and declared "Ich bin ein
>> Berliner" I invite you to declare "Ich bin ein American" and to
>> senselessly waste bandwidth wherever you find it.

What JFK said was I am a doughnut! The "Berliner" being a type of
cake. This has ammused Europeans for years.

In anyevent we are not all Americans. Besides there is no certainty that
there is even a majority of US citizens on the is NG


/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\
\/\/\/\/\/\ Chris Hills Staffs /\/\/\/\/\/
/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\ England /\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\
\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/

Stan Pawlukiewicz

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Mar 1, 1999, 3:00:00 AM3/1/99
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Chris Hills wrote:

> >In message <36DA56...@iowegian.com>
> > Grant Griffin <grant....@iowegian.com> wrote:
> >[snip]

> >> heritage of Waste I invite you to join me in this Noble American Pursuit
> >> because much as John F. Kennedy went to Berlin and declared "Ich bin ein
> >> Berliner" I invite you to declare "Ich bin ein American" and to
> >> senselessly waste bandwidth wherever you find it.
>

> What JFK said was I am a doughnut! The "Berliner" being a type of
> cake. This has ammused Europeans for years.

The Berlin Airlift is probably ammusing to europeans as well.

Albert Lee Mitchell

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Mar 1, 1999, 3:00:00 AM3/1/99
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Chris Hills wrote:
>
> >In message <36DA56...@iowegian.com>
> > Grant Griffin <grant....@iowegian.com> wrote:
> >[snip]

> >> heritage of Waste I invite you to join me in this Noble American Pursuit
> >> because much as John F. Kennedy went to Berlin and declared "Ich bin ein
> >> Berliner" I invite you to declare "Ich bin ein American" and to
> >> senselessly waste bandwidth wherever you find it.
>

> What JFK said was I am a doughnut! The "Berliner" being a type of
> cake. This has ammused Europeans for years.
>

> In anyevent we are not all Americans. Besides there is no certainty that
> there is even a majority of US citizens on the is NG
>
> /\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\
> \/\/\/\/\/\ Chris Hills Staffs /\/\/\/\/\/
> /\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\ England /\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\
> \/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/

And none of you supposedly brilliant chaps got the
irony or humor? Heh.

"Saving bandwidth" in comparing ascii to html is
a waste of time as is the discussion and flames over it.
You'd save a lot more bandwidth going after spammers or
graphics intensive websites such as Yahoo, Altavista,
Microsoft and AOL...

-- Albert
-------------------------------------------------
AM Research, Inc. The Embedded Systems Experts
www.amresearch.com (800) 949-8051
-------------------------------------------------

J. Andrew Johnson

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Mar 1, 1999, 3:00:00 AM3/1/99
to
I think, that with the appropriate (lossless!) data compresion techniques,
one could condense Grant's append to:
"Friends, I am intentionally wasting bandwidth."
which wouldn't have wasted much at all.
I guess that makes his article homological.
-Aj

Grant Griffin wrote:

> Friends,
>
> I followed the recent thread "Turn OFF the HTML BS please" with interest

> [G manifesto...blah blah blah]

> <G>-rant


Jim (from Oz)

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Mar 2, 1999, 3:00:00 AM3/2/99
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On Mon, 01 Mar 1999 08:57:59 +0000, Grant Griffin
<grant....@iowegian.com> wrote:

>Friends,
>
>I followed the recent thread "Turn OFF the HTML BS please" with interest

And I always thought _no_ Americans understood irony.
Very clever.

Jim (from Oz)


Francois

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Mar 2, 1999, 3:00:00 AM3/2/99
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In article <36DAC2...@ieee.org>, Jerry Avins <jya...@erols.com> wrote:
>Grant Griffin wrote:
>
>>[a mighty pile of stuff with a single period at the end]
>
>Oh, my GAWD! I don' know what to make of that.

Whatever you do, keep him away from tea, cookies, and cork-lined rooms,
or we'll *never* hear the end of it.


Francois, "A la recherche du clock perdu".


Martin Griffith

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Mar 2, 1999, 3:00:00 AM3/2/99
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On Mon, 01 Mar 1999 08:57:59 +0000, Grant Griffin
<grant....@iowegian.com> wrote:

>Friends,
SNIP


> and to
>senselessly waste bandwidth wherever you find it.
>
><G>-rant
>--
>_____________________________________________________________________
>
>Grant R. Griffin grant....@iowegian.com
>Iowegian International Corporation http://www.iowegian.com
>_____________________________________________________________________


A bit of white space in this message would have help,CRLF etc

martin

Chris Hills

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Mar 2, 1999, 3:00:00 AM3/2/99
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In article <36DABD61...@mitre.org>, Stan Pawlukiewicz
<st...@mitre.org> writes

>Chris Hills wrote:
>> What JFK said was I am a doughnut! The "Berliner" being a type of
>> cake. This has ammused Europeans for years.
>
>The Berlin Airlift is probably ammusing to europeans as well.
Not sure what you mean here?

I was a lot of fun according to the members of my family in the RAF
and Army who took part.

Stan Pawlukiewicz

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Mar 2, 1999, 3:00:00 AM3/2/99
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Chris Hills wrote:

> In article <36DABD61...@mitre.org>, Stan Pawlukiewicz
> <st...@mitre.org> writes
> >Chris Hills wrote:
> >> What JFK said was I am a doughnut! The "Berliner" being a type of
> >> cake. This has ammused Europeans for years.
> >
> >The Berlin Airlift is probably ammusing to europeans as well.
> Not sure what you mean here?
>
> I was a lot of fun according to the members of my family in the RAF
> and Army who took part.
>

There were a number of crashes in which pilots died.

Grant Griffin

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Mar 2, 1999, 3:00:00 AM3/2/99
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Friends,

Some of the literal-minded among didn't seem to quite get this, and
since things have been slow today (at least in comp.dsp), I thought I
might add a few little annotations to this. Those of you who have
something better to do can go do it now.

First, a note on the form. This is written in my own "rant form", as a
single sentence. Strictly speaking, it really is a _series_ of long
sentences, disguised as a single sentense through the absence of
periods. This single long sentences, and the relative lack of
punctuation and whitespace are simply part of the "form". Form, in art,
is neither good nor bad; it's just form. What counts is what you do
with it. Still, certain forms stand the test of time, for example the
"sonata" and the "haiku" have been around for a long time. It remains
to be seen if this rant form will stand. But for me, it works.

Now, into the criticism. Consider the title, "senseless waste of
bandwidth". Is the author _for_ or _against_ wasting bandwidth? I
guess we'll have to read it to see...

Grant Griffin wrote:
>
> Friends,
>

Sets a positive tone.

> I followed the recent thread "Turn OFF the HTML BS please" with interest
> though I never participated in it because I don't want to encourage
> people to curse on Usenet because let's face it we're all adults here
> and there really isn't any need to curse because heck there are just

"heck"? heck, isn't that just a substitute curse word?

> much better friggin ways for us to express ourselves here in a public

in case you didn't pick up on "heck", "friggin" is a red flag. what
difference does it make if we "curse words" or their "substitutes"? Not
much really; still, "heck" and "darn" are somehow "charming" rather than
vulgar. (Friggin, though, is somewhat vulgar...)

> venue which is read worldwide by people of All Nations and All Cultures

For those of you who can't read, this says that Usenet is read worldwide
by people of All Nations and All Cultures. This means you.

> however that's not to say that I want to limit your freedom of
> expression because let's face it nobody died and put me in charge of

rant idiom: "died and put ... in charge of".

> Usenet so it really isn't my place to set any rules like for example if
> I wanted people to turn off the HTML I guess I could express that
> sentiment in some mature sort of way to try to build a concensus but I

this is an example of leadership by example.

> still would have to respect the freedom Usenet offers us to post
> literally anything we want because let's face it who can stop us but

Am I part of the solution or part of the problem? Heck, it doesn't
matter: "who can stop us".

> that being said the thing I really tuned in on was this whole "waste of
> bandwith" thing which pops up on Usenet from time-to-time and one can't
> help but notice that each time this topic gets discussed it seems to be
> a waste of bandwidth

I probably wasn't the first person to ever think this thought. But it's
a worthwhile point.

> so I'm not here to discuss bandwidth so much as
> waste and to tell you about some of my experiences in that vein like the
> time I went on a tour of the Ben and Jerry's ice cream plant in Vermont

The theme of "Ben and Jerry's" runs throughout. For those of you who
don't know, "Ben and Jerry's Ice Cream" is very expensive, premium ice
cream. Ben and Jerry have taken a clever tack in their marketing, by
tapping into the back-to-nature values of their customer base--which,
ironically, seems to be composed primarily of fat yuppie people who can
afford premium ice cream.

> and the gal there that gave the tour said something that made a lot of
> sense to me so I'd like to share it with you here namely that we should
> all "reduce, reuse, and recycle"

Seriously: I think this is a good concept.

> which one can hardly disagree with take
> reducing for example, which of us can't get along with a little less and

Like Ben and Jerry, for example.

> of course there's reusing which seems like a sensible thing to do like
> for example why do we always throw out our VCR the first time it breaks
> why can't we get it fixed because it costs more to fix it than to buy a
> new

Ironic point: there really are sound economic reasons to throw things
away sometimes. Take, for example, disposable diapers. If you try to
reuse them, it simply doesn't work. Please throw them away.

> one OK so that was a bad example

Irony: so why did you bring it up, idiot?

> and then there's recycling which I
> think everybody can agree is a good thing like for example when I walk
> down the hall at work carrying a big box of empty pop cans to carry them
> to the recycle bin a get a good feeling

True--although I also feel like a dork.

> not only because I'm saving the
> environment and stuff like that but also because I'm wasting my
> employer's time which is far more important

True--which makes me feel better about feeling like a dork.

> which really brings me to my
> next point which is that America used to the the Land of Waste

Satire here: Why was America _ever_ the Land of Waste?

> and that was What Made America Great

rant idom: "That was What Made America Great"

> and we all had big scary cars which had lots
> of steel and chrome and even tail fins

Scary, because Buicks had big chrome teeth. Add the tailfins, and they
look like land sharks.

> but then the OPEC decided that
> they could make more money by not selling us as much oil as they used to
> which seems to defy common sense

though easily understood using the "law of supply": we all learned about
that in Econonsense 101.

> but it just goes to show how smart
> those OPEC guys are

but are they really smart? we'll see...

> because it really worked so all of a sudden
> Americans were willing to give up steel and chrome and tailfins for
> little economy cars that didn't take a whole lot of gas

true

> so you didn't
> have to stand in a long line at the gas station but you still had to
> stand in line at the Toyota dealer so it makes you wonder how much time
> those guys really saved

Irony: you only had to stand in line at the Toyota dealer once.

> but in any event the Japanese began to eat the
> lunch of the American car manufacturers because they were still pumping
> out big wasteful steel-and-chrome monstrocities

this is a callback to the concept of "scary"

> though they had given up on tailfins a long time ago

again, scary

> and then there was the whole quality issue
> but to make a long story short

let's not waste bandwidth on that one.

> Detroit

For those of you who comprise "All Peoples and Cultures", "Detroit" is
synonomous with "American car manufacturers"

> eventually figured out over a
> long period of time

why did it take so darn long?

> how to make relatively

"relatively"? I'm hedging here--let's not waste bandwidth arguing this.

> high-quality, fuel-efficient
> cars that people liked almost as well as Toyotas which seem to have
> something of a fanatical following

I've never owned one, so I guess I just don't understand...

> if I may editorialize just a bit and

Waitaminute? Isn't this whole _thing_ an editorial?

> I don't know if the Toyota fans know that they now make Toyota's in
> America which just goes to show that you can take the Toyota out of
> Japan

We in America can make a car that's just as darn good as a darn Japanese
car (IMHO). Na-na-nana-na.

> but you can't take Japan out of Asia

A silly, though undeniably true, statement...has vaguely racist
overtones.

Also, this uses a rant idom: "you can take the ... out of ... but you
can't take the ... out of ..."

> but now that people of gotten
> used to Toyotas or at least are driving American cars which get good gas
> milage Americans over a period of years have caught on to the fact that
> it is Good not to be wasteful

Why use a capital "G"? This conservation thing has become something of
a religion for some people...

> though people few articulate this as well
> as Ben and Jerry inasmuch as they encouraged us to "reduce, reuse, and
> recycle"

callback/tieback

> for example they told us that if they ever end up with any
> excess ice cream or they have a batch that doesn't turn out just right
> they sell it

"sell"? Maybe these guys aren't environmentalist so much as just good
businessmen...

> to the local hog farmers who feed it to the hogs and the
> hogs just love it but then again what else did you expect the hog to do

Well, what else _did_ you expect the hog to do? A hog would have to be
pretty darn dumb not to like ice cream...

> but speaking of waste I must say that Ben and Jerry's ice cream is a
> tremendous waste of money inasmuch as it costs so darn much

This "reduce, reuse, recycle" thing might have bad implications for
sales, if yuppie ice cream customers with too much disposable income
begin to really practice it. Beware Ben, beware Jerry!

> but if the
> hogs don't have to pay as much as we do I can see why they like it so

irony

> and even though I complain about Ben and Jerry's itself I still like the
> concept of "reduce, reuse, and recycle"

tieback

> and I have tried to apply this
> in my own life starting with reducing the amount of Ben and Jerry's ice
> cream I eat but a lot of other Americans have begun to reduce waste

double tieback

> which was once a lifestyle for us and was once something that made us
> Proud to Be Americans like for example we now recycle pop cans and
> newspapers and even plastic milk cartons which they've probably been
> doing in Europe for years

hedging

> but it is a big step forward for us Americans

irony: it's really just a little step.

> though much as I agree with the concept of reducing waste I think the
> true reason we Americans are doing it is a little strange

honestly, I do.

> if you'll paron me saying so

irony: once again--you can't stop me.

> that reason being that now that we have cheap oil

waitaminute! Sure, OPEC made some good dough for awhile, but then they
taught us all to drive cars that get good gas mileage, and to find lots
of new sources of oil. Then they started fighting amongst themselves.
I'm not sure those OPEC guys are so darn smart after all...

> again our Nation's Most Precious Resource has become The Landfill yes
> you heard me right The Landfill now who would ever think that Landfill's
> would ever become our Nation's Most Precious National Resource because

Satire: "Our Nation's Most Precious National Resource"

> admittedly there is only a certain amout of oil in the ground there
> seems to be no limit to the number of Landfills we could dig up because
> let's face it a Landfill is nothing more than a hole and if there's one
> thing you can dig up anywhere you plant your shovel it's a hole

I was rather proud of this one. It has a nice sort of "Lewis Carroll"
flavor to it.

> but of
> course it's not really that simple because of the fact that nobody wants
> to live near a landfill because they smell bad like the hogs that eat
> Ben and Jerry's ice cream and they pollute the ground water like the
> hogs that eat Ben and Jerry's ice cream

Ben and Jerry are basically hypocrites.

> so in that context maybe
> Landfill's really are Our Nation's Most Precious National Resource so
> that just puts us back to the idea that we should "reduce, reuse, and
> recycle"

tieback

> because if we don't throw so much stuff away we can conserve
> Our Nation's Most Precious National Resource although I gotta tell you
> that if landfills had only the stuff in them that we recycle like
> newspapers, pop cans, and plastic milk bottles nobody would really mind
> living next to one

an honest point here: the things we recycle wouldn't be bad things to
put in landfills: we'd just have to dig a little bigger hole.

> because those things don't smell nearly as bad as Ben
> and Jerry's hogs

sell it, brother, sell it!

> and let's face it pop cans don't pollute ground water

(ok, this one was a little weak)

> but this just brings me to the main point of all this

Finally! But there's still another mile to walk...

> which is that
> since we can no longer waste anything of any kind given that the
> Landfill is Our Nation's Most Precious National Resource then I think we
> at least ought to be able to waste bandwidth because you don't even have
> to bury that after you're done with it

unlike most other stuff we waste

> though to be fair

rant concilliation

> there are
> probably lots of fiber optic cables with lots of bandwidth which are
> buried

I just stumbled onto this one as I wrote it. Beautiful!

> and archeologists a thousand years from now will dig up and ask
> themselves, "what did these people have to talk about that was so
> important" and they'll scratch their heads and keep on digging

Satire: ALL of Usenet is a waste of bandwidth, silly!

> but for
> the time being I think we Americans should get back to our Heritage of
> Waste and never loose sight of What Made This Country Great which let's
> be honest about it

more rant idioms

> involved a great talent for waste

what "talent" is needed?

> which again brings
> me back to the main point

hey! I thought we were already there!

> which is that in these latter days of cheap
> computing and instant telelcommunications

redundancy for the sake of parallel structure: what other kind of
telecommunications is there besides "instant"?

> the least we can do is to
> treat ourselves to a little waste in terms of bandwidth which when you
> get right down to it

rant idiom: "when you get right down to it"

> really doesn't hurt anybody

serious point: when you get right down to it, it really doesn't hurt
anybody

> and even for those of
> you who aren't Americans and who don't come from a culture and a

For those of you who can't read, the phrase "even for those of you who
aren't Americans" means "even for those of you who aren't Americans".

> heritage of Waste I invite you to join me in this Noble American Pursuit

Irony: NOBLE American Pursuit?

> because much as John F. Kennedy went to Berlin and declared "Ich bin ein
> Berliner"

I honestly didn't know about the donut thing. Still, if I may
backpeddle a bit (and remember, you can't stop me), I think it only adds
to the value of the piece.

And it makes me glad that the Soviets didn't build a wall in Hamburg.
Or Frankfurt.

> I invite you to declare "Ich bin ein American" and to

Deliberately silly use of German here: it would have been more sensible
to say "I am an American".

Note that this entire paragraph was intended to include those of you who
_aren't_ Americans in my "Noble American Pursuit". Much as Kennedy
wasn't really a "Berliner" (either kind), this phrase works primarily
for those of you who aren't Americans.

I'm well aware that there are many non-Americans out there. In fact,
scientific studies have proven that the vast majority of people outside
America aren't Americans. Note that playing a bit of the "Ugly
American" is part of the ironic undertone of the piece. It's
intentional. I totally respect you for whoever you are. Even if you
wear funny hats.

> senselessly waste bandwidth wherever you find it.

serious point--let's have fun here on Usenet

> <G>-rant

for those of you who don't know a rant when you see one.

=g2

Chris Hills

unread,
Mar 2, 1999, 3:00:00 AM3/2/99
to
In article <36DBEFB6...@mitre.org>, Stan Pawlukiewicz

<st...@mitre.org> writes
>Chris Hills wrote:
>
>> In article <36DABD61...@mitre.org>, Stan Pawlukiewicz
>> <st...@mitre.org> writes
>> >Chris Hills wrote:
>> >> What JFK said was I am a doughnut! The "Berliner" being a type of
>> >> cake. This has ammused Europeans for years.
>> >
>> >The Berlin Airlift is probably ammusing to europeans as well.
>> Not sure what you mean here?
>>
>> I was a lot of fun according to the members of my family in the RAF
>> and Army who took part.
>There were a number of crashes in which pilots died.
That's how it goes. Military and aid opperations are like that even now.
I still do not see the conection between this and JFK making a prat of
himself or the origional thread re bandwidth.

Ariancylch

unread,
Mar 3, 1999, 3:00:00 AM3/3/99
to
On Tue, 02 Mar 1999 10:11:29 GMT,
Martin Griffith <wave...@SPAMbigfoot.com> wrote:
> On Mon, 01 Mar 1999 08:57:59 +0000, Grant Griffin
> <grant....@iowegian.com> wrote:
> >Friends,
> SNIP
> > and to
> >senselessly waste bandwidth wherever you find it.
>
> A bit of white space in this message would have help,CRLF etc

But that would have wasted bandwidth...

--
J,
who's found his killfile growing quite rapidly in this group of late
<sigh>

Greg Limes

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Mar 3, 1999, 3:00:00 AM3/3/99
to

Jerry Avins wrote in message <36DAC2...@ieee.org>...

|Oh, my GAWD! I don' know what to make of that. It can't be a sentence,
|because there sure are a lot of subjects, but there's only one period
|(.) . The only thing I can call it is a string. A <G>string, to be
|precise. I'm not sure that it's reasonable to call it an article, but
|I'm told that anything on Usenet is one by default. Speaking of
|articles, they are very important parts of speech, and their use differs
|between languages in subtle ways. In England, there is a difference
|between being in the hospital and being in hospital. In German, there is
|a difference between being Berliner, and being ein Berliner. "Ich bin
|Berliner" means "I'm from Berlin." "Ich bin ein Berliner" means "I'm a
|particularkindmadefamousinBerlin Puff Pastry." Kennedy got it wrong.

But he gets an "A" for effort -- at least he *tried* and a lot of
folks seem to have at least understood what he intended to say.

And maybe he was trying to make a pun (they have those in
German, I assume? :) :)


J. Andrew Johnson

unread,
Mar 3, 1999, 3:00:00 AM3/3/99
to
G- You've got WAY too much time on your hands! -Aj

Grant Griffin wrote:

Friends,
[snip]
 

Olav Woelfelschneider

unread,
Mar 3, 1999, 3:00:00 AM3/3/99
to
Grant Griffin <grant....@iowegian.com> wrote in comp.arch.embedded:

>> I invite you to declare "Ich bin ein American" and to

GG> Deliberately silly use of German here: it would have been more sensible
GG> to say "I am an American".

Nah, you should have said "Ich bin ein Amerikaner". Thus you would have
stated that you are a piece of iced cake. (-:

(Yeah, we germans call donuts w/o holes Berliner, we call Sausages
Frankfurter and Wiener, and have some sort of small iced cake we call
Amerikaner. He! :-)

*grin* and *couldn't resist*

--
Olav "Mac" Wölfelschneider wo...@cardware.de
PGP fingerprint = 06 5F 66 B3 2A AD 7D 2D B7 19 67 3C 95 A7 9D AF
Mer muß doch nur emol e bissje nochdenke. -- Mundstuhl

Stan Pawlukiewicz

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Mar 3, 1999, 3:00:00 AM3/3/99
to
Chris Hills wrote:

> In article <36DBEFB6...@mitre.org>, Stan Pawlukiewicz
> <st...@mitre.org> writes
> >Chris Hills wrote:
> >
> >> In article <36DABD61...@mitre.org>, Stan Pawlukiewicz
> >> <st...@mitre.org> writes
> >> >Chris Hills wrote:
> >> >> What JFK said was I am a doughnut! The "Berliner" being a type of
> >> >> cake. This has ammused Europeans for years.
> >> >
> >> >The Berlin Airlift is probably ammusing to europeans as well.
> >> Not sure what you mean here?
> >>
> >> I was a lot of fun according to the members of my family in the RAF
> >> and Army who took part.
> >There were a number of crashes in which pilots died.
> That's how it goes. Military and aid opperations are like that even now.
> I still do not see the conection between this and JFK making a prat of
> himself or the origional thread re bandwidth.

It has been said that Britain and the United States are two nations divided
by a common language. I could go into what I really meant - but it really
is not that important. - Let me just say that I too am glad that you are
not an American.

I personally don't think that JFK made a "prat" of himself. Now there is a
certain "Prince of Wales" who wants to be tampax.
Do you europeans find that ammusing?

Stan Pawlukiewicz

unread,
Mar 3, 1999, 3:00:00 AM3/3/99
to
Olav Woelfelschneider wrote:

> Grant Griffin <grant....@iowegian.com> wrote in comp.arch.embedded:

> >> I invite you to declare "Ich bin ein American" and to
>

> GG> Deliberately silly use of German here: it would have been more sensible
> GG> to say "I am an American".
>
> Nah, you should have said "Ich bin ein Amerikaner". Thus you would have
> stated that you are a piece of iced cake. (-:
>
> (Yeah, we germans call donuts w/o holes Berliner, we call Sausages
> Frankfurter and Wiener, and have some sort of small iced cake we call
> Amerikaner. He! :-)
>
> *grin* and *couldn't resist*
>

It is possible the JFK was really saying - Eat me.

Rufus V. Smith

unread,
Mar 3, 1999, 3:00:00 AM3/3/99
to

Stan Pawlukiewicz wrote in message <36DD3BCF...@mitre.org>...

>Chris Hills wrote:
>
>> In article <36DBEFB6...@mitre.org>, Stan Pawlukiewicz
>> <st...@mitre.org> writes
>> >Chris Hills wrote:
>> >
>> >> In article <36DABD61...@mitre.org>, Stan Pawlukiewicz
>> >> <st...@mitre.org> writes
>> >> >Chris Hills wrote:
>> >> >> What JFK said was I am a doughnut! The "Berliner" being a type of
>> >> >> cake. This has ammused Europeans for years.
>> >> >
>> >> >The Berlin Airlift is probably ammusing to europeans as well.
>> >> Not sure what you mean here?
>> >>
>> >> I was a lot of fun according to the members of my family in the RAF
>> >> and Army who took part.
>> >There were a number of crashes in which pilots died.
>> That's how it goes. Military and aid opperations are like that even now.
>> I still do not see the conection between this and JFK making a prat of
>> himself or the origional thread re bandwidth.
>
>It has been said that Britain and the United States are two nations divided
>by a common language. I could go into what I really meant - but it really
>is not that important. - Let me just say that I too am glad that you are
>not an American.
>
Inasmuchas I am an American and not too embarrassed about it, I have to
add that it is unfortunate that there is no word that indicates I'm from the
United States (now I've done it, suggestions for that one word are bound
to follow) as opposed to Canadian/Mexican/South American who are also
American, as we United Statesians are prone to forget. I'm reminded of
the story about the "Weans" and the "More We"...

Lasse Langwadt Christensen

unread,
Mar 3, 1999, 3:00:00 AM3/3/99
to
Grant Griffin wrote:
>
> Friends,
>
> Some of the literal-minded among didn't seem to quite get this, and
> since things have been slow today (at least in comp.dsp), I thought I
> might add a few little annotations to this. Those of you who have
> something better to do can go do it now.

This could get out of hand, ;)

>
> First, a note on the form. This is written in my own "rant form", as a
> single sentence. Strictly speaking, it really is a _series_ of long
> sentences, disguised as a single sentense through the absence of
> periods. This single long sentences, and the relative lack of
> punctuation and whitespace are simply part of the "form".

I my atleast serve as a bad example, I'm still trying to make my eyes
regain focus :)

>
----8<


>
> > that being said the thing I really tuned in on was this whole "waste of
> > bandwith" thing which pops up on Usenet from time-to-time and one can't
> > help but notice that each time this topic gets discussed it seems to be
> > a waste of bandwidth
>
> I probably wasn't the first person to ever think this thought. But it's
> a worthwhile point.

Think of all the fun we have with it, sorta like a troll that works
everywhere

-- 8<


>
> but are they really smart? we'll see...
>
> > because it really worked so all of a sudden
> > Americans were willing to give up steel and chrome and tailfins for
> > little economy cars that didn't take a whole lot of gas
>
> true

same amount of money for less work, makes sense to me :)

--- 8<

>
> > I don't know if the Toyota fans know that they now make Toyota's in
> > America which just goes to show that you can take the Toyota out of
> > Japan
>
> We in America can make a car that's just as darn good as a darn Japanese
> car (IMHO). Na-na-nana-na.

using the american approch; if it doesn't work, use more hardware ;)

-- 8< --

>
> for those of you who don't know a rant when you see one.
>
> =g2
> --

I'm beginnning to think the '2' may be there because theres really two
of you ;)

ROTFLMAO

--L2C
--___--_-_-_-____--_-_--__---_-_--__---_-_-_-__--_----
Lasse Langwadt Christensen, MSEE (to be in 1999)
Aalborg University, Department of communication tech.
Applied Signal Processing and Implementation (ASPI)
http://www.kom.auc.dk/~fuz , mailto:lang...@ieee.org

Lasse Langwadt Christensen

unread,
Mar 3, 1999, 3:00:00 AM3/3/99
to
Olav Woelfelschneider wrote:
>
> Grant Griffin <grant....@iowegian.com> wrote in comp.arch.embedded:
> >> I invite you to declare "Ich bin ein American" and to
>
> GG> Deliberately silly use of German here: it would have been more sensible
> GG> to say "I am an American".
>
> Nah, you should have said "Ich bin ein Amerikaner". Thus you would have
> stated that you are a piece of iced cake. (-:
>
> (Yeah, we germans call donuts w/o holes Berliner, we call Sausages
> Frankfurter and Wiener, and have some sort of small iced cake we call
> Amerikaner. He! :-)
>
> *grin* and *couldn't resist*
>

I'm from Denmark so I'm danish, I begin to see a pattern :-D

Darren Salt

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Mar 3, 1999, 3:00:00 AM3/3/99
to

You're using a broken or misconfigured newsreader.

You probably:

  • post in HTML;
  • don't properly wordwrap your text;
  • put all new text above all quoted text;
  • and don't even quote the quoted text properly.

Your newsreader is probably Megasloth's Outlook Depressed, which should be taken outside and shot. Or at least reconfigured.

Or perhaps it's Netscape's newsreader, in which case at least you're not using an M$ nesreader...

Grant Griffin

unread,
Mar 3, 1999, 3:00:00 AM3/3/99
to

Hi Aj,

Well...

Some men drink. Some men gamble. Some men have sex with their Interns,
lie about it before a grand jury, then try to cover it all up.

Me--I write.

I think it's about time I entered one of them "twelve step" programs.
Before my wife kills me.

;-)

=g2
p.s. <p><b><i>this is not html</i></b></p>

Grant Griffin

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Mar 3, 1999, 3:00:00 AM3/3/99
to
Rufus V. Smith wrote:
>
>
[snipping snipped]

May I quote the great Rodney King?

"People, caint we all just get along?"

(For the benefit of those of you who aren't Americans, the word "caint"
means "please fellas--I wasn't trying to start an international flame
war".)

;-)

=g2

Maximo Lachman

unread,
Mar 4, 1999, 3:00:00 AM3/4/99
to

"Greg Limes" (se...@no.spam) writes:
> Jerry Avins wrote in message <36DAC2...@ieee.org>...
> |between languages in subtle ways. In England, there is a difference
> |between being in the hospital and being in hospital. In German, there is
> |a difference between being Berliner, and being ein Berliner. "Ich bin
> |Berliner" means "I'm from Berlin." "Ich bin ein Berliner" means "I'm a
> |particularkindmadefamousinBerlin Puff Pastry." Kennedy got it wrong.
>
He got the Berlin dialect better than most Yankees, incl. the pronounciation
of "ich". He literally said " I am one Berliner " in our dialect, which
made sense in the context of the speech, since everyone knew he wasn't from
Berlin. Fewwould have known that the West Germans referred to
Pfannkuchen as 'berliner Pfannkuchen.' "Berliner" by itself could mean
many things, such as beer, depending on the context. Besides, in the
early 60's few Berliners or even East Germans would have been familiar
with the West German usage. I only found that out over here.

> But he gets an "A" for effort -- at least he *tried* and a lot of
> folks seem to have at least understood what he intended to say.
True.

> And maybe he was trying to make a pun (they have those in
> German, I assume? :) :)
>
He should have gone to Hamburg for that.

ade,
maximo


gec...@ibm.net

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Mar 4, 1999, 3:00:00 AM3/4/99
to
Trying to explain a masterpiece only diminishes it. It was a joy to read.

Chris Wright

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Mar 4, 1999, 3:00:00 AM3/4/99
to
In article <48DD276FA6%ne...@youmustbejoking.demon.com.uk>, Darren Salt
<ne...@youmustbejoking.demon.com.uk> writes

>
> You're using a broken or misconfigured newsreader.
>
> You probably:
>
> * post in HTML;
> * don't properly wordwrap your text;
> * put all new text above all quoted text;
> * and don't even quote the quoted text properly.
>
> Your newsreader is probably Megasloth's Outlook Depressed, which
> should be taken outside and shot. Or at least reconfigured.
>
> Or perhaps it's Netscape's newsreader, in which case at least
> you're not using an M$ nesreader...

Well, I'm using Turnpike, which as a Demon user you might be familiar
with. I don't consider it a "broken" newsreader, but it still displays
the HTML text as default, but I can see the plain text too, by choosing
the alternative view.

So if I was an inexperienced 'net person ('newby') I could be mislead...


--
Chris Wright
Colt International Licensing Ltd

J. Andrew Johnson

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Mar 4, 1999, 3:00:00 AM3/4/99
to
Darren Salt wrote:

> Your newsreader is probably Megasloth's Outlook Depressed, which
> should be taken outside and shot. Or at least reconfigured.

> Or perhaps it's Netscape's newsreader, in which case at least you're
> not using an M$ nesreader...

Yes, Netscape. Nevertheless, I will try to ensure that my articles get
posted in a form that is readable by everyone. I had no idea.... Thanks.

-Aj
P.S. M$ newsreader = ???


Grant Griffin

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Mar 4, 1999, 3:00:00 AM3/4/99
to
Lasse Langwadt Christensen wrote:
>
[snip]
> This could get out of hand, ;)
>

Naw...I'll stop now.

----8<


> >
> > > that being said the thing I really tuned in on was this whole "waste of
> > > bandwith" thing which pops up on Usenet from time-to-time and one can't
> > > help but notice that each time this topic gets discussed it seems to be
> > > a waste of bandwidth
> >
> > I probably wasn't the first person to ever think this thought. But it's
> > a worthwhile point.
>

> Think of all the fun we have with it, sorta like a troll that works
> everywhere
>

It needs a name...how about "The Portable Tisdale"?

-- 8<


>
> I'm beginnning to think the '2' may be there because theres really two
> of you ;)
>
> ROTFLMAO

me 2!

Darren Salt

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Mar 4, 1999, 3:00:00 AM3/4/99
to
In message <eGIJJJAi...@coltopv3.demon.co.uk>

Chris Wright <ch...@coltopv3.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> In article <48DD276FA6%ne...@youmustbejoking.demon.com.uk>, Darren Salt
> <ne...@youmustbejoking.demon.com.uk> writes
>> You're using a broken or misconfigured newsreader.
[snip]
>> Your newsreader is probably Megasloth's Outlook Depressed, [...]
>> Or perhaps it's Netscape's newsreader [...]

> Well, I'm using Turnpike, which as a Demon user you might be familiar with.

I've heard of it, but given that it doesn't run on RISC OS...น

> I don't consider it a "broken" newsreader, but it still displays the HTML
> text as default,

I wasn't aware of that...

> but I can see the plain text too, by choosing the alternative view.

IMO, it's the /HTML/ which is the alternative view :-)

> So if I was an inexperienced 'net person ('newby') I could be mislead...

Yes. You might even have considered it acceptable to post in HTML...


น ObARM: well, we know which processors on which it runs :-)

--
| Darren Salt | ds@youmustbejoking,demon,co,uk | Acorn | nr. Ashington,
| Risc PC, Spec +3, | ds@zap,uk,eu,org ** anti-UCE | Club | Northumberland
| A3010, BBC M128 | arcsalt@spuddy,mew,co,uk | NE | Toon Army
| Retrocomputing: a PC card in a Risc PC

professor(n): one who talks in the sleep of many others.

Darren Salt

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Mar 4, 1999, 3:00:00 AM3/4/99
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In message <36DE7E2D...@lmco.com>

"J. Andrew Johnson" <aj.jo...@lmco.com> wrote:

> Darren Salt wrote:
>> Your newsreader is probably Megasloth's Outlook Depressed, which should be
>> taken outside and shot. Or at least reconfigured.

>> Or perhaps it's Netscape's newsreader, in which case at least you're not

>> using an M$ newsreader...

> Yes, Netscape.

That's obvious from the X-Mailer header in your postings. My mentioning of
Outlook Excess as well is just a catch-all (and it missed Turnpike's HTML
viewing, of which I wasn't previously aware).

> Nevertheless, I will try to ensure that my articles get posted in a form
> that is readable by everyone. I had no idea.... Thanks.

That was the article's intended effect :-)

BTW, did you read the plain text part?

> P.S. M$ newsreader = ???

Well, I'm sure that they'd like to, shall we say, squeeze Netscape out...

(Hopefully, that's the end of /this/ thread...)

--
| Darren Salt | nr. Ashington, | Acorn | ds@youmustbejoking,demon,co,uk
| Risc PC, Spec +3, | Northumberland | Club | ds@zap,uk,eu,org ** anti-UCE
| A3010, BBC M128 | Toon Army | NE | arcsalt@spuddy,mew,co,uk
| When replying: "news"->"ds", "com"->"co"

Corruption empowers, and absolute corruption empowers absolutely.

Seth Henry

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Mar 4, 1999, 3:00:00 AM3/4/99
to
As far as I am concerned, American is good enough. If you say you are an
American, no matter where you are in the world, people will know you are a
citizen of the US. I realize this is incorrect, but it wouldn't be the
first time - and it matches the "American" ego :)

Seth Henry
jsh...@comp.uark.edu

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