On Home Projects as a Reentry into the Job Market
Tim Wescott
a lot of posts recently that start something like:
"I haven't worked in engineering since 20xx, and I'm (starting)/
(looking for) a job. To make my (job search)/(first week) more
successful I'm thinking of doing a project to put on my resume
and get the juices flowing."
Does this seem to actually help? Is anyone here in a position to hire,
and if you saw a resume (or interviewed a person) who had done some
hobby/home project just to get back into the swing of things, would you
give that much weight? Would you give it _more_ weight than, say, going
back to school and taking a class or two, or teaching math to villagers
in Africa for six months*, or doing something that was obviously meant
to keep your hands busy and make ends meet, like sweeping up at
MacDonalds or being an engineering manager?
I'm not dissing the notion in any way -- in fact, I have several
back-burner projects here that I pull out whenever work gets slow. I'm
just wondering if, when looked at with a cold and cynical eye, the time
and money spent does a reasonable amount of good.
* A distant friend / good acquaintance of mine is doing this, more for
himself than for the job prospects.
--
Tim Wescott
Wescott Design Services
http://www.wescottdesign.com
Do you need to implement control loops in software?
"Applied Control Theory for Embedded Systems" was written for you.
See details at http://www.wescottdesign.com/actfes/actfes.html
John Speth
> back-burner projects here that I pull out whenever work gets slow. I'm
> just wondering if, when looked at with a cold and cynical eye, the time
> and money spent does a reasonable amount of good.
I also have my doubts that a one-project embedded education has any value.
Of course, it's better than nothing but it could possibly be valued at
slightly more than nothing depending on what the project is and what the job
requirements are.
When I interview people, I ask about their extracurricular engineering
activities. I think it's where their true colors show because, if such
activity exists, they are demonstrating a passion for their chosen endeavor
and will probably be much more knowledgeable and talkative about their hobby
projects than their professional projects.
For hobbies, there are all sorts of rocket people, electronic music people,
video people, etc. out there. I think some are doing amazing work and those
are the people who I'd hire. Those who make a blinky PIC just to put
"embedded" on their resume are easily exposed.
JJS
--- news://freenews.netfront.net/ - complaints: ne...@netfront.net ---
larwe
> successful I'm thinking of doing a project to put on my resume
> and get the juices flowing."
>
> Does this seem to actually help? Is anyone here in a position to hire,
> and if you saw a resume (or interviewed a person) who had done some
> hobby/home project just to get back into the swing of things, would you
> give that much weight? Would you give it _more_ weight than, say, going
> back to school and taking a class or two, or teaching math to villagers
In short: yes, as long as it's a project using reasonably modern
technology (Applicants building their project in CHIP-8 running on a
CDP1802 need not apply). This is more valuable than random coursework
at a university - honestly, a couple of seminars are more useful than
six months of college (in terms of teaching recent, relevant info),
and actually getting down and dirty and getting something real to work
is more relevant still.
Tim Wescott
What if they made the CDP1802 in their kitchen oven, from sand found in
the driveway?
(I ask because I've been toying with the notion of replicating the
COSMAC ELF that I had in high school on an old Spartan 3 FPGA eval board
I have lying around. If I ever get the spare time).
Grant Edwards
> I do not -- thank God -- have to reenter the job market. But I've seen
> a lot of posts recently that start something like:
>
> "I haven't worked in engineering since 20xx, and I'm (starting)/
> (looking for) a job. To make my (job search)/(first week) more
> successful I'm thinking of doing a project to put on my resume
> and get the juices flowing."
>
> Does this seem to actually help? Is anyone here in a position to
> hire, and if you saw a resume (or interviewed a person) who had done
> some hobby/home project just to get back into the swing of things,
> would you give that much weight?
Definitely. Somebody who does home/hobby projects probably enjoys the
work. People who like what they're doing are always a step ahead of
those who don't.
> Would you give it _more_ weight than, say, going back to school and
> taking a class or two,
It depends on the classes.
> or teaching math to villagers in Africa for six months*,
That would win points as well.
> or doing something that was obviously meant to keep your hands busy
> and make ends meet, like sweeping up at MacDonalds or being an
> engineering manager?
Everybody's got to eat...
--
Grant Edwards grant.b.edwards Yow! I'm having a
at tax-deductible experience!
gmail.com I need an energy crunch!!
Tim Wescott
> On 2010-08-24, Tim Wescott<t...@seemywebsite.com> wrote:
>> I do not -- thank God -- have to reenter the job market. But I've seen
>> a lot of posts recently that start something like:
>>
>> "I haven't worked in engineering since 20xx, and I'm (starting)/
>> (looking for) a job. To make my (job search)/(first week) more
>> successful I'm thinking of doing a project to put on my resume
>> and get the juices flowing."
>>
>> Does this seem to actually help? Is anyone here in a position to
>> hire, and if you saw a resume (or interviewed a person) who had done
>> some hobby/home project just to get back into the swing of things,
>> would you give that much weight?
>
> Definitely. Somebody who does home/hobby projects probably enjoys the
> work. People who like what they're doing are always a step ahead of
> those who don't.
>
>> Would you give it _more_ weight than, say, going back to school and
>> taking a class or two,
>
> It depends on the classes.
My question isn't so much do they do it all the time for a hobby -- I
would certainly look favorably on someone who's been a radio amateur, or
who's been building Lego robots since they came out or something like that.
I'm talking more of the folks who peel themselves away from the Wii just
long enough to do some "embedded" project _just because_ it's embedded
and they want a job.
Dirk Bruere at NeoPax
> I do not -- thank God -- have to reenter the job market. But I've seen
> a lot of posts recently that start something like:
>
> "I haven't worked in engineering since 20xx, and I'm (starting)/
> (looking for) a job. To make my (job search)/(first week) more
> successful I'm thinking of doing a project to put on my resume
> and get the juices flowing."
>
> Does this seem to actually help? Is anyone here in a position to hire,
> and if you saw a resume (or interviewed a person) who had done some
> hobby/home project just to get back into the swing of things, would you
> give that much weight? Would you give it _more_ weight than, say, going
> back to school and taking a class or two, or teaching math to villagers
> in Africa for six months*, or doing something that was obviously meant
> to keep your hands busy and make ends meet, like sweeping up at
> MacDonalds or being an engineering manager?
>
> I'm not dissing the notion in any way -- in fact, I have several
> back-burner projects here that I pull out whenever work gets slow. I'm
> just wondering if, when looked at with a cold and cynical eye, the time
> and money spent does a reasonable amount of good.
>
> * A distant friend / good acquaintance of mine is doing this, more for
> himself than for the job prospects.
>
If it was a non-trivial piece of s/w in a popular language, then yes.
--
Dirk
http://www.transcendence.me.uk/ - Transcendence UK
http://www.blogtalkradio.com/onetribe - Occult Talk Show
Joerg
> On 08/24/2010 10:59 AM, Grant Edwards wrote:
>> On 2010-08-24, Tim Wescott<t...@seemywebsite.com> wrote:
>>> I do not -- thank God -- have to reenter the job market. But I've seen
>>> a lot of posts recently that start something like:
>>>
>>> "I haven't worked in engineering since 20xx, and I'm (starting)/
>>> (looking for) a job. To make my (job search)/(first week) more
>>> successful I'm thinking of doing a project to put on my resume
>>> and get the juices flowing."
>>>
>>> Does this seem to actually help? Is anyone here in a position to
>>> hire, and if you saw a resume (or interviewed a person) who had done
>>> some hobby/home project just to get back into the swing of things,
>>> would you give that much weight?
>>
>> Definitely. Somebody who does home/hobby projects probably enjoys the
>> work. People who like what they're doing are always a step ahead of
>> those who don't.
>>
I'll second that.
>>> Would you give it _more_ weight than, say, going back to school and
>>> taking a class or two,
>>
>> It depends on the classes.
>
> My question isn't so much do they do it all the time for a hobby -- I
> would certainly look favorably on someone who's been a radio amateur, or
> who's been building Lego robots since they came out or something like that.
>
> I'm talking more of the folks who peel themselves away from the Wii just
> long enough to do some "embedded" project _just because_ it's embedded
> and they want a job.
>
That would be delivering lip service on the part of the candidate. No, I
would not hire if I found out there's no depth. But there it usually
doesn't matter whether it was a hobby project or classes. I know people
who have passed classes at our university with flying colors yet cannot
even repair simple electronics. Not so good.
--
Regards, Joerg
http://www.analogconsultants.com/
"gmail" domain blocked because of excessive spam.
Use another domain or send PM.
larwe
> What if they made the CDP1802 in their kitchen oven, from sand found in
> the driveway?
The only person I know who is sufficiently hardcore to do that sort of
thing is Jeri Ellsworth, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeri_Ellsworth -
who apparently has made her own ICs on her home lab bench (as well as
being famous for the C64-on-a-chip FPGA then later ASIC). Looks like
1974 was a good year for cool engineers ;)
Anyway - yes, if you turn sand into digital logic, you get a free
pass!
Phil Hobbs
> I do not -- thank God -- have to reenter the job market. But I've seen
> a lot of posts recently that start something like:
>
> "I haven't worked in engineering since 20xx, and I'm (starting)/
> (looking for) a job. To make my (job search)/(first week) more
> successful I'm thinking of doing a project to put on my resume
> and get the juices flowing."
>
> Does this seem to actually help? Is anyone here in a position to hire,
> and if you saw a resume (or interviewed a person) who had done some
> hobby/home project just to get back into the swing of things, would you
> give that much weight? Would you give it _more_ weight than, say, going
> back to school and taking a class or two, or teaching math to villagers
> in Africa for six months*, or doing something that was obviously meant
> to keep your hands busy and make ends meet, like sweeping up at
> MacDonalds or being an engineering manager?
>
> I'm not dissing the notion in any way -- in fact, I have several
> back-burner projects here that I pull out whenever work gets slow. I'm
> just wondering if, when looked at with a cold and cynical eye, the time
> and money spent does a reasonable amount of good.
>
> * A distant friend / good acquaintance of mine is doing this, more for
> himself than for the job prospects.
>
Sure. Many of the best engineers I know started out as hobbyists, and
that's something I always looked for in helping interview people at IBM
Research. Showing that it isn't just a job to you is a key
differentiator. Dave Jones has a couple of vblogs on interviewing, and
he's on the right track with them, I think.
Folks that just sit on their hands, or look like that's what they're
doing, start to appear less valuable with time.
Cheers
Phil Hobbs
--
Dr Philip C D Hobbs
Principal
ElectroOptical Innovations
55 Orchard Rd
Briarcliff Manor NY 10510
845-480-2058
hobbs at electrooptical dot net
http://electrooptical.net
Grant Edwards
I suppose they get partial credit. They're behind people with geeky
hobbies, but ahead of people who didn't even bother making a PIC blink
an LED.
--
Grant Edwards grant.b.edwards Yow! Like I always say
at -- nothing can beat
gmail.com the BRATWURST here in
DUSSELDORF!!
John Larkin
wrote:
>I do not -- thank God -- have to reenter the job market. But I've seen
>a lot of posts recently that start something like:
>
> "I haven't worked in engineering since 20xx, and I'm (starting)/
> (looking for) a job. To make my (job search)/(first week) more
> successful I'm thinking of doing a project to put on my resume
> and get the juices flowing."
>
>Does this seem to actually help? Is anyone here in a position to hire,
>and if you saw a resume (or interviewed a person) who had done some
>hobby/home project just to get back into the swing of things, would you
>give that much weight? Would you give it _more_ weight than, say, going
>back to school and taking a class or two, or teaching math to villagers
>in Africa for six months*, or doing something that was obviously meant
>to keep your hands busy and make ends meet, like sweeping up at
>MacDonalds or being an engineering manager?
>
>I'm not dissing the notion in any way -- in fact, I have several
>back-burner projects here that I pull out whenever work gets slow. I'm
>just wondering if, when looked at with a cold and cynical eye, the time
>and money spent does a reasonable amount of good.
>
>* A distant friend / good acquaintance of mine is doing this, more for
>himself than for the job prospects.
We were interviewing programmers a year or so ago, and the choice came
down to a guy and a woman, both apparently good. The guy is a vehicle
nut and had designed and built a number of tach-style
embedded-processor things for cars, trucks, and bicycles, and had
pictures. We were impressed by a programmer who actually built and
programmed electronic gadgets, so we hired him.
In general, we'd give the edge to someone who does home electronic
projects, for almost any job position. It shows practicality and
enthusiasm for electronics.
John
m II
> In general, we'd give the edge to someone who does home electronic
> projects, for almost any job position. It shows practicality and
> enthusiasm for electronics.
I think not. I've attached pictures of all my electronic pet control
collar tests to my CVs and have gotten nowhere.
Should I have included the shots of all the failures? I believe in
complete honesty, yet feel perhaps that the brain splatter and ruptured
eyeballs caused by the high energy discharges may actually be hurting my
chances.
In explaining the use of the little critters, I DO mention the
overcrowded conditions in the animal shelters and how I'm actually
bettering Society as a whole by freeing up space.
None of this has dampened my enthusiasm in the least and I will be
starting work with the larger breeds next week and in an effort to
diminish the 'squeamish' factor the Personnel Managers apparently have,
will be using black and white photography from now on.
Would you advise using the darker hair subjects? White tends to be a bit
graphic....
mike
Phil Hobbs
Try General Dynamics. ;0
m II
> What if they made the CDP1802 in their kitchen oven, from sand found in
> the driveway?
I once turned paper found in my wallet into a fully functioning HP41CV.
mike
Charlie E.
wrote:
>On 08/24/2010 10:59 AM, Grant Edwards wrote:
>> On 2010-08-24, Tim Wescott<t...@seemywebsite.com> wrote:
>>> I do not -- thank God -- have to reenter the job market. But I've seen
>>> a lot of posts recently that start something like:
>>>
>>> "I haven't worked in engineering since 20xx, and I'm (starting)/
>>> (looking for) a job. To make my (job search)/(first week) more
>>> successful I'm thinking of doing a project to put on my resume
>>> and get the juices flowing."
>>>
>>> Does this seem to actually help? Is anyone here in a position to
>>> hire, and if you saw a resume (or interviewed a person) who had done
>>> some hobby/home project just to get back into the swing of things,
>>> would you give that much weight?
>>
>> Definitely. Somebody who does home/hobby projects probably enjoys the
>> work. People who like what they're doing are always a step ahead of
>> those who don't.
>>
>>> Would you give it _more_ weight than, say, going back to school and
>>> taking a class or two,
>>
>> It depends on the classes.
>
>My question isn't so much do they do it all the time for a hobby -- I
>would certainly look favorably on someone who's been a radio amateur, or
>who's been building Lego robots since they came out or something like that.
>
>I'm talking more of the folks who peel themselves away from the Wii just
>long enough to do some "embedded" project _just because_ it's embedded
>and they want a job.
It really depends on the project. If they take the project, build it,
manufacture it, and sold it at ham fests and other places, then that
would be plus. If they were doing something interesting and unusual,
or especially difficult, that would also be a plus. If it was really
simple and basic, but they had to learn a whole new toolset that is
applicable to a new job, then it would also be a plus...
Charlie
k...@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz
>> I'm not dissing the notion in any way -- in fact, I have several
>> back-burner projects here that I pull out whenever work gets slow. I'm
>> just wondering if, when looked at with a cold and cynical eye, the time
>> and money spent does a reasonable amount of good.
>
>I also have my doubts that a one-project embedded education has any value.
>Of course, it's better than nothing but it could possibly be valued at
>slightly more than nothing depending on what the project is and what the job
>requirements are.
I don't think it adds much to the resume of an experienced engineer. It may
add significantly to a freshly minted engineer, however. There is a lot more
to engineering than hacking together some code.
>When I interview people, I ask about their extracurricular engineering
>activities. I think it's where their true colors show because, if such
>activity exists, they are demonstrating a passion for their chosen endeavor
>and will probably be much more knowledgeable and talkative about their hobby
>projects than their professional projects.
I'd flunk. I don't do electronics at home. I get enough of that at work.
Burnout is a real risk. I have other challenges to keep me busy at home.
>For hobbies, there are all sorts of rocket people, electronic music people,
>video people, etc. out there. I think some are doing amazing work and those
>are the people who I'd hire. Those who make a blinky PIC just to put
>"embedded" on their resume are easily exposed.
I guess it's better than no blinky, but I don't think they're getting hired
right now either.
k...@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz
>On Aug 24, 1:28 pm, Tim Wescott <t...@seemywebsite.com> wrote:
>
>> What if they made the CDP1802 in their kitchen oven, from sand found in
>> the driveway?
>
>The only person I know who is sufficiently hardcore to do that sort of
>thing is Jeri Ellsworth, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeri_Ellsworth -
>who apparently has made her own ICs on her home lab bench (as well as
>being famous for the C64-on-a-chip FPGA then later ASIC). Looks like
>1974 was a good year for cool engineers ;)
Yes it was! ;-)
>Anyway - yes, if you turn sand into digital logic, you get a free
>pass!
How about analogs? RF? How about gold? ;-)
Joel Koltner
news:8sj876dljcsrn19m3...@4ax.com...
> I'd flunk. I don't do electronics at home. I get enough of that at work.
> Burnout is a real risk. I have other challenges to keep me busy at home.
He just said "engineering," not "electrical engineering" -- I suspect your
woodworking projects would qualify just fine!
k...@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz
Well, my current projects involve staying cool. ;-) I haven't ventured into
the garage or attic for a couple of months. :-(
Tim Wescott
> On Tue, 24 Aug 2010 10:19:32 -0700, "John Speth"<john...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>>> I'm not dissing the notion in any way -- in fact, I have several
>>> back-burner projects here that I pull out whenever work gets slow. I'm
>>> just wondering if, when looked at with a cold and cynical eye, the time
>>> and money spent does a reasonable amount of good.
>>
>> I also have my doubts that a one-project embedded education has any value.
>> Of course, it's better than nothing but it could possibly be valued at
>> slightly more than nothing depending on what the project is and what the job
>> requirements are.
>
> I don't think it adds much to the resume of an experienced engineer. It may
> add significantly to a freshly minted engineer, however. There is a lot more
> to engineering than hacking together some code.
>
>> When I interview people, I ask about their extracurricular engineering
>> activities. I think it's where their true colors show because, if such
>> activity exists, they are demonstrating a passion for their chosen endeavor
>> and will probably be much more knowledgeable and talkative about their hobby
>> projects than their professional projects.
>
> I'd flunk. I don't do electronics at home. I get enough of that at work.
> Burnout is a real risk. I have other challenges to keep me busy at home.
I can certainly understand that. I like to design and build model
airplanes, but if I'm doing a lot of detailed design work professionally
I have to skip the 'design' step with the airplanes -- this means that
instead of painting myself into a corner on paper and erasing to start
over, I'll paint myself into a corner with balsa and have to hack and
patch to start over. But it lets me build...
Joel Koltner
>>thing is Jeri Ellsworth, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeri_Ellsworth -
>>who apparently has made her own ICs on her home lab bench (as well as
>>being famous for the C64-on-a-chip FPGA then later ASIC). Looks like
>>1974 was a good year for cool engineers ;)
Those homde-made ICs are logic gates -- not quite up to the CDP1802 level. :-)
Jeri's unique for doing this completely at home, but note that until quite
recently many universities still had older generation IC manufacturing
abilities: I know a guy who finished college in the mid-'80s, and in one of
his lab courses they were also replicating standard logic chips, all the way
from "bare silicon wafer, some dopants, and a furnace" to "packaged, finished
part." These days universities usually just have the job done by MOSIS or a
commercial research partner if said partner has a fab of their own (e.g.,
Triquint, IBM, etc.).
(This evolution with how universities build ICs has largely followed PCB
construction: There are a few die-hard schools that insist on cutting and/or
etching boards in-house, still, but the majority of them today use one of the
inexpensive commercial fabs given how much better the quality is and how
inexpensive the pricing has become.)
I actually designed the original SDRAM controller in her "Commodore One"
there -- she had it working with SRAM, but figured that SDRAM would be better
(and I concurred) given how much cheaper it was. I had just finished a very
fancy SDRAM controller for work, so I was able to crank out the simple-minded
one she needed in a few days after work and handed her the VHDL when I was
done.
Of course, after that it was undoubtedly modified by many parties. Jens
Schoenfeld in Germany (http://www.jschoenfeld.com/indexe.htm) played a
significant part in helping get the design from the prototypes stages to an
actual product as well. In fact, there was a bit of a spat between them in
that he thought he had purchased exclusive rights to use the design, but Jeri
then also used it at Mammoth Toys for the "computer in a joystick."
Jeri's done an exceptional job of succeeding despite very humble beginnings.
I think much of this can be attributed to her tenacitiy -- once she decides
she wants to do something, she'll keep at it day and night until it's done.
She spent years hounding various former Commodore engineers for schematics,
chip layouts, and other historical information they had that she wanted to
learn. She's a very sociable person by nature, always wanting to learn.
---Joel
k...@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz
<zapwireD...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>The only person I know who is sufficiently hardcore to do that sort of
>>>thing is Jeri Ellsworth, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeri_Ellsworth -
>>>who apparently has made her own ICs on her home lab bench (as well as
>>>being famous for the C64-on-a-chip FPGA then later ASIC). Looks like
>>>1974 was a good year for cool engineers ;)
>
>Those homde-made ICs are logic gates -- not quite up to the CDP1802 level. :-)
>Jeri's unique for doing this completely at home, but note that until quite
>recently many universities still had older generation IC manufacturing
>abilities: I know a guy who finished college in the mid-'80s, and in one of
>his lab courses they were also replicating standard logic chips, all the way
>from "bare silicon wafer, some dopants, and a furnace" to "packaged, finished
>part." These days universities usually just have the job done by MOSIS or a
>commercial research partner if said partner has a fab of their own (e.g.,
>Triquint, IBM, etc.).
In '74 students were doing good to make NPN transistors. ;-)
>(This evolution with how universities build ICs has largely followed PCB
>construction: There are a few die-hard schools that insist on cutting and/or
>etching boards in-house, still, but the majority of them today use one of the
>inexpensive commercial fabs given how much better the quality is and how
>inexpensive the pricing has become.)
We used a lathe to cut circuit boards. AIUI many now use the "CNC router"
style prototyping systems. We have one of them at work, too, but it hasn't
been used much. It's a little crude.
>I actually designed the original SDRAM controller in her "Commodore One"
>there -- she had it working with SRAM, but figured that SDRAM would be better
>(and I concurred) given how much cheaper it was. I had just finished a very
>fancy SDRAM controller for work, so I was able to crank out the simple-minded
>one she needed in a few days after work and handed her the VHDL when I was
>done.
Just use the FPGA's macro tool. ;-)
>Of course, after that it was undoubtedly modified by many parties. Jens
>Schoenfeld in Germany (http://www.jschoenfeld.com/indexe.htm) played a
>significant part in helping get the design from the prototypes stages to an
>actual product as well. In fact, there was a bit of a spat between them in
>that he thought he had purchased exclusive rights to use the design, but Jeri
>then also used it at Mammoth Toys for the "computer in a joystick."
>
>Jeri's done an exceptional job of succeeding despite very humble beginnings.
>I think much of this can be attributed to her tenacitiy -- once she decides
>she wants to do something, she'll keep at it day and night until it's done.
>She spent years hounding various former Commodore engineers for schematics,
>chip layouts, and other historical information they had that she wanted to
>learn. She's a very sociable person by nature, always wanting to learn.
Sounds like a fun person to be around.
Joel Koltner
<k...@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz> wrote in message
news:men876l1eqhh9o191...@4ax.com...
> In '74 students were doing good to make NPN transistors. ;-)
Not bad, not bad at all. :-)
> We used a lathe to cut circuit boards. AIUI many now use the "CNC router"
> style prototyping systems. We have one of them at work, too, but it hasn't
> been used much. It's a little crude.
CNC routers are great if you need something more or less immediately... or if
for some reason you're going to need a lot of revisions to the PCB before you
really know what you want... but these days, if you can wait a week, not only
do the commercial guys give far better results, but in most cases it costs
less money overall if you have to be paying someone's salary to do it. (We
have a pretty nice LPKF machine, but it really doesn't get much use.)
Do you guys do any pick & place/reflow/assembly there? We have a manually
operaeted pick & place machine and a small reflow oven, which is convenient at
times.
[SDRAM controllers]
> Just use the FPGA's macro tool. ;-)
Ha... this was back around the turn of the century, and while I think Xilinx
was just starting to have such macros, they sure weren't considered
trustworthy! Same with FIFOs at that time -- we had written our own, which
"just worked," whereas I remember in the service pack notes how it seemed they
were always fixing various empty/full synchronization problems with the silly
things. (That being said, I was always impressed with Peter Alfke's
abilities -- he clearly knew the parts inside and out, and knew how to make
them work reliably. But not everyone there shared his talents...)
These days I would at least take the macro generator for a spin, I suppose. I
don't want to become like one guy we had at work then, who didn't want to
trust that the synthesis tools could implement addition efficiency, and spent
several weeks writing his own basic arithmetic routines... only to find that
they performed more slowly they the synthesizer's built-in functions, since
the optimizer wasn't able to do as good of a job without "understanding" the
overall function of all those 'flops and LUTs he was instantiated
one-by-one...
(On the other hand, around the turn of the century was also about the point
where you finally could trust the synthesis tools to know how to *multiply* --
I remember people doing a lot of testing, and *finally* the implementations
were starting to be reasonably efficient things like Wallace multipliers...)
> Sounds like a fun person to be around.
Oh yeah, she certainly can be!
---Joel
k...@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz
<zapwireD...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>Hi Keith,
>
><k...@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz> wrote in message
>news:men876l1eqhh9o191...@4ax.com...
>> In '74 students were doing good to make NPN transistors. ;-)
>
>Not bad, not bad at all. :-)
>
>> We used a lathe to cut circuit boards. AIUI many now use the "CNC router"
>> style prototyping systems. We have one of them at work, too, but it hasn't
>> been used much. It's a little crude.
>
>CNC routers are great if you need something more or less immediately... or if
>for some reason you're going to need a lot of revisions to the PCB before you
>really know what you want... but these days, if you can wait a week, not only
>do the commercial guys give far better results, but in most cases it costs
>less money overall if you have to be paying someone's salary to do it. (We
>have a pretty nice LPKF machine, but it really doesn't get much use.)
Ditto. We are rarely pressed for time on prototypes and when we are they want
it "shippable". Yeah, right.
>Do you guys do any pick & place/reflow/assembly there? We have a manually
>operaeted pick & place machine and a small reflow oven, which is convenient at
>times.
Sure. We do all our own assembly. Our reflow oven is kinda crude (only
five-stage), but other than that the stuff works very well. They're talking
about getting an eleven-stage oven but I think the holdup is trying to figure
out how to slip one into production without a huge risk of missing ships.
>[SDRAM controllers]
>
>> Just use the FPGA's macro tool. ;-)
>
>Ha... this was back around the turn of the century, and while I think Xilinx
>was just starting to have such macros, they sure weren't considered
>trustworthy!
Hint: They still aren't. ;-)
>Same with FIFOs at that time -- we had written our own, which
>"just worked," whereas I remember in the service pack notes how it seemed they
>were always fixing various empty/full synchronization problems with the silly
>things. (That being said, I was always impressed with Peter Alfke's
>abilities -- he clearly knew the parts inside and out, and knew how to make
>them work reliably. But not everyone there shared his talents...)
Xilinx' FIFOs worked very well for me, about then. I didn't use the core-gen,
or whatever they call it, but I did use their primitive.
>These days I would at least take the macro generator for a spin, I suppose. I
>don't want to become like one guy we had at work then, who didn't want to
>trust that the synthesis tools could implement addition efficiency, and spent
>several weeks writing his own basic arithmetic routines... only to find that
>they performed more slowly they the synthesizer's built-in functions, since
>the optimizer wasn't able to do as good of a job without "understanding" the
>overall function of all those 'flops and LUTs he was instantiated
>one-by-one...
I did pretty well implementing wide logic (things like comparators) using
Xilinx' fast-carry chains. I could certainly beat Xilinx' synthesis. I
checked again a couple of years ago and they were using the carry chains for
wide logic. In '98 or '99 Xilinx' synthesis was so bad I bought Synplify Pro.
Michael A. Terrell
"k...@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz" wrote:
>
> Sure. We do all our own assembly. Our reflow oven is kinda crude (only
> five-stage), but other than that the stuff works very well. They're talking
> about getting an eleven-stage oven but I think the holdup is trying to figure
> out how to slip one into production without a huge risk of missing ships.
Does your current reflow oven have a profile for pizzas? ;-)
D Yuniskis
Tim Wescott wrote:
> I do not -- thank God -- have to reenter the job market. But I've seen
> a lot of posts recently that start something like:
>
> "I haven't worked in engineering since 20xx, and I'm (starting)/
> (looking for) a job. To make my (job search)/(first week) more
> successful I'm thinking of doing a project to put on my resume
> and get the juices flowing."
>
> Does this seem to actually help? Is anyone here in a position to hire,
> and if you saw a resume (or interviewed a person) who had done some
> hobby/home project just to get back into the swing of things, would you
> give that much weight?
Citing "just to get back into the swing of things" I would say "no".
If you *know* how to do "X", then doing it just prior to *RE*-entering
the work force means little to me: "Was your skillset *that* weak
that it couldn't survive the hiatus? Or, have you been *idle* for
that long that *I* should be concerned as to whether your WORK
ETHIC may also have been compromised in this time period??"
If, OTOH, you were *ENTERING* the workplace, I would *carefully*
look at your choice of project and *approach*. I'd much prefer to
see an applicant who has the ambition and drive to *attempt*
something "on his/her own" instead of *buying* a solution.
And, I would base much of my interview on dissecting the
approach taken, decisions made a priori vs. during the effort,
lessons learned, etc. Did the applicant *learn* anything
from the effort (besides "how to make a whatchamacallit")?
Is he/she likely to learn anything *here* -- or will he/she
just rerun the same algorithm for a paycheck...
At the same time, this would work *against* an applicant (!).
Too often, people fall into the hammer-nail paradigm and
throw the same solution at *every* project with which they
are (subsequently) faced. I see this a *lot* with the PIC crowd.
EVERYTHING gets done with a PIC (sorry, but you are either
distorting the needs of all of those "everythings" to *fit*
your implementation *or* you aren't thinking of what you
*could* do with those everythings WITHOUT the "PIC constraint").
The hobbyist mentality qualifies you for a technician's job.
It *may* qualify you for an engineering job *if* you can see past
the hobbyist's mentality (cheap, do it with the tools on hand,
minimize learning curve/expense, etc.). I want an engineer
to be able to evaluate the needs of each assignment and
tailor his/her solution to *those* constraints -- not just a rehash
of the last project he/she did (which was a rehash of the project
before that, which was a rehash... etc.)
E.g., I am currently working on deploying three very similar systems
with three very different implementations based on the individual
requirements of their application domains. On one, I use ~30
1GHz/1GB SBC's (P3's); another uses ~50 100MHz/512K SoC's; the
third uses a mix of SBC's and COTS kit. The communication media
vary from 10/100/1000Mb wired to wireless to ZigBee (i.e., very
different data rates, geography and "reliability"/connectivity).
One is modeled more like a NoW, another like a mesh; some loosely
coupled, others tightly (including SMP).
Obviously, the software that rides atop these has to vary as well.
The OS's are different in each application domain. Ditto with the
network stacks, etc. Some are largely C/C++, others are shoehorned
into ASM implementations.
An applicant that tried to use the same approach (hammer) on each
(nail) would be (subconciously) telling me that he/she is focused
on his/her *current* skillset and not the needs of the application(s).
And, will fit the application to the skillset instead of the other
way around. I.e., fearful of their abilities instead of confident
in them. (So, why, as an employer, should *I* be confident in them??)
> Would you give it _more_ weight than, say, going
> back to school and taking a class or two, or teaching math to villagers
> in Africa for six months*, or doing something that was obviously meant
> to keep your hands busy and make ends meet, like sweeping up at
> MacDonalds or being an engineering manager?
I want to see *focus* in a job prospect. Are they able to
identify the important issues (e.g., "feeding their family",
in your example) *and* do their actions "make sense" in
meeting those issues (keeping in mind that my idea of "sense"
can differ from theirs).
E.g., "I played Nintendo" while *waiting* for a job is not a
"good answer" :-/
> I'm not dissing the notion in any way -- in fact, I have several
> back-burner projects here that I pull out whenever work gets slow. I'm
> just wondering if, when looked at with a cold and cynical eye, the time
> and money spent does a reasonable amount of good.
The problem with "hobbyist" projects is that they are almost
always unstructured. This isn't how things (should!) work
in the businessplace.
E.g., you can't just sit down with a vague idea of what you
want to end up with and slug away at it until you get "tired
of it" (which, essentially, is how these projects "end").
As an employee, I want you to be able to sort out what you
are going to do A PRIORI to *reach* a particular goal WITHIN
a particular set of constraints -- instead of just starting
out and "hoping for the best". (i.e., how many hobbyist
projects *really* meet their INITIAL stated goals? Where
were those goals FORMALIZED??? How many projects just fizzle
out when you get "too busy"?)
Given how easy it is, nowadays, to slap something together, I would
dismiss most "projects". Unless you are *entering* the workforce
(fresh out of school), it doesn't say much about your abilities.
It *may* reveal how "frugal" you are, though: how much time
are you willing to throw at a "pet project" instead of just
*buying* a COTS solution! (and, will you resort to a skimpy
design approach to save the dollars that "doing it right" would
require??)
E.g., the folks who throw a PC at *every* problem that comes along
don't earn many gravy points with me. Yeah, I know you can make
a TiVo out of a PC -- you can also use it to defrost frozen meats!
I'm not impressed with *either* usage. :-/
> * A distant friend / good acquaintance of mine is doing this, more for
> himself than for the job prospects.
Cool! There are people who advocate just such actions as
"healthy" for the mind/soul and "regenerative" for vocational
purposes (on the premis that only by "looking away" do the eyes
see clearest).
Teaching is said to be the best way of *understanding* something.
It is a remarkably effective way of sorting out ideas in your
own head (assuming your goal is to *be* a good teacher). E.g.,
I spend a fair bit of time formally documenting things "for
others" in an effort to sort them out in *my* mind before
starting out on an undertaking.
Of course, if your friend's interest in math is not directly
related to his/her career goals, this may not apply (as much).
Mikko Syrjälahti
> My question isn't so much do they do it all the time for a hobby -- I
> would certainly look favorably on someone who's been a radio amateur,
> or who's been building Lego robots since they came out or something
> like that.
I'm currently hiring for my company. A hobby in the field is big plus for me,
especially for people with short work history. It tells me that they're in the
art for passion, not just because of good job.
> I'm talking more of the folks who peel themselves away from the Wii
> just long enough to do some "embedded" project _just because_ it's
> embedded and they want a job.
Getting from Wii to a working embedded system, however small, may show
at least capability of learning. Not as good as a hobby, but a plus.
We're constantly doing projects where we do things we've never done before,
so the learning capability is an absolute must in my business.
--
Mikko OH2HVJ
Tim Wescott
> Tim Wescott<t...@seemywebsite.com> writes:
>
snip
> We're constantly doing projects where we do things we've never done before,
> so the learning capability is an absolute must in my business.
Boy, it's nice to see someone in a position to hire saying that. I've
seen all too many people who are trying to do something unique, yet
can't gather the courage to go hire someone unless they've done exactly
that never-before-done thing.
Joel Koltner
news:v2s876d32ic8abu7o...@4ax.com...
> On Tue, 24 Aug 2010 17:41:03 -0700, "Joel Koltner"
> <zapwireD...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>Do you guys do any pick & place/reflow/assembly there? We have a manually
>>operaeted pick & place machine and a small reflow oven, which is convenient
>>at
>>times.
> Sure. We do all our own assembly.
We do assembly in-house either when time is tight or when the boards are
simpler. We have some military products where, while the designs aren't
particularly complex -- just a whole bunch of roughly the same circuit
repeated over and over -- some boards end up being something upwards of a
thousand discrete parts, and the techs really prefer not to have to sit down
and pick-and-place that many parts manually... so those go to a contract
manufacturer.
> Our reflow oven is kinda crude (only
> five-stage), but other than that the stuff works very well.
Same here (or maybe 6 stages? -- but certainly not 11).
> They're talking
> about getting an eleven-stage oven but I think the holdup is trying to
> figure
> out how to slip one into production without a huge risk of missing ships.
We're planning on building an entirely new shop with a pretty fancy production
line. It's been delayed due to the slump in the economy (customers delaying
or cancelling orders), although it's now planned to break ground by the end of
the year, which is pretty cool. (It is a bit cramped here right now...)
There was talk about offering contract assembly services to help pay for all
this if we don't have enough of our own goodies to keep at least one shift
going every day year 'round; should be interesting to see how it plays out.
>>[SDRAM controllers]
> Hint: They still aren't. ;-)
Ah, good to know!
> I did pretty well implementing wide logic (things like comparators) using
> Xilinx' fast-carry chains. I could certainly beat Xilinx' synthesis. I
> checked again a couple of years ago and they were using the carry chains for
> wide logic. In '98 or '99 Xilinx' synthesis was so bad I bought Synplify
> Pro.
We were using Synplify as well -- Xilinx was packaging FPGA Express (aka, FPGA
Distress) at the time, and it was really quite awful -- worse than the free
synthesis tools that Cypress gave you for their CPLDs!
---Joel
k...@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz
No, but it would probably work better as a pizza oven. ;-)
k...@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz
<zapwireD...@yahoo.com> wrote:
><k...@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz> wrote in message
>news:v2s876d32ic8abu7o...@4ax.com...
>> On Tue, 24 Aug 2010 17:41:03 -0700, "Joel Koltner"
>> <zapwireD...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>Do you guys do any pick & place/reflow/assembly there? We have a manually
>>>operaeted pick & place machine and a small reflow oven, which is convenient
>>>at
>>>times.
>> Sure. We do all our own assembly.
>
>We do assembly in-house either when time is tight or when the boards are
>simpler. We have some military products where, while the designs aren't
>particularly complex -- just a whole bunch of roughly the same circuit
>repeated over and over -- some boards end up being something upwards of a
>thousand discrete parts, and the techs really prefer not to have to sit down
>and pick-and-place that many parts manually... so those go to a contract
>manufacturer.
The motherboard in that widget you were playing with has something like 1700
components.
>> Our reflow oven is kinda crude (only
>> five-stage), but other than that the stuff works very well.
>
>Same here (or maybe 6 stages? -- but certainly not 11).
Five or six is OK, as long as you don't want to do RoHS. If you have any
plans to do RoHS, the more the merrier. Five works, if nothing goes wrong but
it stresses parts more than I'd like. With nine or eleven stages you can soak
everything longer and then spike it for the reflow.
>> They're talking
>> about getting an eleven-stage oven but I think the holdup is trying to
>> figure
>> out how to slip one into production without a huge risk of missing ships.
>
>We're planning on building an entirely new shop with a pretty fancy production
>line. It's been delayed due to the slump in the economy (customers delaying
>or cancelling orders), although it's now planned to break ground by the end of
>the year, which is pretty cool. (It is a bit cramped here right now...)
>There was talk about offering contract assembly services to help pay for all
>this if we don't have enough of our own goodies to keep at least one shift
>going every day year 'round; should be interesting to see how it plays out.
AIUI, we did contract manufacturing at first, too. It's a bigger PITA than
it's worth. Splitting allegiances isn't a good position to be in, either.
>>>[SDRAM controllers]
>> Hint: They still aren't. ;-)
>
>Ah, good to know!
We abused the software quite a bit. If you do everything by the book they may
work. ;-)
>> I did pretty well implementing wide logic (things like comparators) using
>> Xilinx' fast-carry chains. I could certainly beat Xilinx' synthesis. I
>> checked again a couple of years ago and they were using the carry chains for
>> wide logic. In '98 or '99 Xilinx' synthesis was so bad I bought Synplify
>> Pro.
>
>We were using Synplify as well -- Xilinx was packaging FPGA Express (aka, FPGA
>Distress) at the time, and it was really quite awful -- worse than the free
>synthesis tools that Cypress gave you for their CPLDs!
I really liked Synplify (Amplify was a sweet idea too). Too bad Synopsis
bought 'em. Actually, I'm finding that the freebie Altera stuff works pretty
well. I haven't really stressed it, but it's very easy to use. I like the
direction they're going, too.
k...@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz
>On 08/25/2010 09:11 AM, Mikko Syrjälahti wrote:
>> Tim Wescott<t...@seemywebsite.com> writes:
>>
>
>snip
>
>> We're constantly doing projects where we do things we've never done before,
>> so the learning capability is an absolute must in my business.
>
>Boy, it's nice to see someone in a position to hire saying that. I've
>seen all too many people who are trying to do something unique, yet
>can't gather the courage to go hire someone unless they've done exactly
>that never-before-done thing.
...with ten years experience doing the never-been-done-before thing with
hardware that's two years old.
Joel Koltner
<k...@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz> wrote in message
news:ku6b765s7rdo2id7e...@4ax.com...
> The motherboard in that widget you were playing with has something like 1700
> components.
We have some boxes that are something like 3,000 parts... but they're spread
over a large handful of boards inside.
So you win for "most parts on a single board." :-)
I'd still be worried that massive ferrite choke on the internal Ethernet cable
might get lose some day and start smashing up all those nice audio
transformers and relays you have in there!
> AIUI, we did contract manufacturing at first, too. It's a bigger PITA than
> it's worth. Splitting allegiances isn't a good position to be in, either.
Hmm, good points. I'll keep that in mind.
> I really liked Synplify (Amplify was a sweet idea too). Too bad Synopsis
> bought 'em.
Agreed; Synplify was quite good. I was no longer doing FPGA design by the
time Synopsys bought'em, at least.
The Cypress VHDL synthesis tool (Warp) was nice in that (kinda similar to
LTSpice) it'd been written largely by a single guy up at Cypress's Beaverton,
Oregon office -- made for nice "one stop shopping" for tech support if you
ever needed it.
---Joel
k...@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz
<zapwireD...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>Hi Keith,
>
><k...@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz> wrote in message
>news:ku6b765s7rdo2id7e...@4ax.com...
>> The motherboard in that widget you were playing with has something like 1700
>> components.
>
>We have some boxes that are something like 3,000 parts... but they're spread
>over a large handful of boards inside.
>
>So you win for "most parts on a single board." :-)
If I did it again I think I could cut it by almost half, or get rid of the
other board completely. Not going to happen, though.
>I'd still be worried that massive ferrite choke on the internal Ethernet cable
>might get lose some day and start smashing up all those nice audio
>transformers and relays you have in there!
It's still on the rope. ;-) You should see the monster on one of the flat
cables in our football product. It's a real Rube. Compliance afterthoughts
are seldom pretty. :-(
>> AIUI, we did contract manufacturing at first, too. It's a bigger PITA than
>> it's worth. Splitting allegiances isn't a good position to be in, either.
>
>Hmm, good points. I'll keep that in mind.
It brings home some bacon, I understand. Ask your boss, "if it comes down to
running our product or theirs..."
>> I really liked Synplify (Amplify was a sweet idea too). Too bad Synopsis
>> bought 'em.
>
>Agreed; Synplify was quite good. I was no longer doing FPGA design by the
>time Synopsys bought'em, at least.
>
>The Cypress VHDL synthesis tool (Warp) was nice in that (kinda similar to
>LTSpice) it'd been written largely by a single guy up at Cypress's Beaverton,
>Oregon office -- made for nice "one stop shopping" for tech support if you
>ever needed it.
I played around with Actel's a bit too. It seems to work, but I don't like
their parts as much. LUT-3s do an amazing job of eating up cells (multiply
your estimates by at least two). OTOH, Xilinx's new LUT-6 (Spartan 6) is
sweet. I'm 95% sure I'm going to stick with Altera, though. Cost and
packaging are really what drives the decision.
Michael A. Terrell
that was what we called our old ovens at Microdyne. "Call the M.E.,
the pizza oven is down again". They finally replaced the pair with a
computer controlled Heller oven.
Michael A. Terrell
And 18 months on parts released, within this week?
In 1996, while interviewing for a job I was told that one of the
requirements was 15 years experience with Win 95. I pointed out that
they were fools, and walked out. They weren't around for long. I guess
they couldn't find enough experienced people. :)
k...@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz
<mike.t...@earthlink.net> wrote:
Actually, the oven is fine for what it is. The RoHS profile is just asking
too much from it.
Michael A. Terrell
The ones at Microdyne were old when I started there, over 13 years
ago. They needed two, just to keep one running. They were going to
overhaul the better unit after they bought the Heller, and set it up for
engineering to play with, so they didn't keep disrupting production.
Suddenly engineering didn't waste so much time, playing with
Production's toys. :)
JW
<mike.t...@earthlink.net> wrote in Message id:
<7JKdncV4Lvi7W-jR...@earthlink.com>:
>
>"k...@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz" wrote:
>>
>> On Wed, 25 Aug 2010 09:27:11 -0700, Tim Wescott <t...@seemywebsite.com> wrote:
>>
>> >On 08/25/2010 09:11 AM, Mikko Syrjälahti wrote:
>> >> Tim Wescott<t...@seemywebsite.com> writes:
>> >>
>> >
>> >snip
>> >
>> >> We're constantly doing projects where we do things we've never done before,
>> >> so the learning capability is an absolute must in my business.
>> >
>> >Boy, it's nice to see someone in a position to hire saying that. I've
>> >seen all too many people who are trying to do something unique, yet
>> >can't gather the courage to go hire someone unless they've done exactly
>> >that never-before-done thing.
>>
>> ...with ten years experience doing the never-been-done-before thing with
>> hardware that's two years old.
>
>
> And 18 months on parts released, within this week?
>
> In 1996, while interviewing for a job I was told that one of the
>requirements was 15 years experience with Win 95.
Hey, that's almost possible. After all, it's just MS-DOS with a GUI
glommed on the top.
Michael A. Terrell
Sure it is. There was no 'registry' in DOS.
JW
OK, so there's a bug that MS-DOS didn't have.
Bill Martin
hey, if you are turning sand into gold, you don't need no stinkin
engeneer job!
Rob Gaddi
Back in college our reflow oven was a Black & Decker. Only one
temperature zone, but it did ding when the time was up.
Then I went on to my first job, found myself reflowing by heat gun, and
longed for those more sophisticated days.
--
Rob Gaddi, Highland Technology
Email address is currently out of order
Michael A. Terrell
A guy I knew repaired Data general computer gear. He did Surface
Mount repair with a B&D heat gun.
larwe
> > How about analogs? RF? How about gold? ;-)
>
> hey, if you are turning sand into gold, you don't need no stinkin
> engeneer job!
But on the other hand, in Massachusetts you might be burned at the
stake as an unlicensed alchemist.
rickman
>
>
>
> > On Aug 24, 12:53 pm, Tim Wescott<t...@seemywebsite.com> wrote:
>
> >> successful I'm thinking of doing a project to put on my resume
> >> and get the juices flowing."
>
> >> Does this seem to actually help? Is anyone here in a position to hire,
> >> and if you saw a resume (or interviewed a person) who had done some
> >> hobby/home project just to get back into the swing of things, would you
> >> back to school and taking a class or two, or teaching math to villagers
>
> > technology (Applicants building their project in CHIP-8 running on a
> > CDP1802 need not apply). This is more valuable than random coursework
> > at a university - honestly, a couple of seminars are more useful than
> > six months of college (in terms of teaching recent, relevant info),
> > and actually getting down and dirty and getting something real to work
> > is more relevant still.
>
> What if they made the CDP1802 in their kitchen oven, from sand found in
> the driveway?
>
> COSMAC ELF that I had in high school on an old Spartan 3 FPGA eval board
> I have lying around. If I ever get the spare time).
>
> --
>
> Tim Wescott
> Wescott Design Serviceshttp://www.wescottdesign.com
>
> Do you need to implement control loops in software?
> "Applied Control Theory for Embedded Systems" was written for you.
> See details athttp://www.wescottdesign.com/actfes/actfes.html
I wish a had a nickle for every engineer or hobbyist who wanted to
recreate an old CPU design. Or better yet, a line of fully debugged
and documented code on a new project with real world application.
I thought I was going to have a lot of free time this summer to work
on an open source hardware design, but my time has not been so free
after all. But if anyone is sitting around bored and wants to
participate, I would love to have some moral support if not good,
solid planning and design work. I want to develop an open source GPS
receiver. The main goal is to allow a variety of sources of data to
be used rather than being locked into maps from the GPS vendor. I've
been inspired by USAPhotoMaps and OpenStreetMaps.
I'm not trying to knock retro-projects. I'm just saying I'd like to
work on something closer to state of the art.
Rick
Joel Koltner
"rickman" <gnu...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:8c31f216-da16-4132...@m1g2000yqo.googlegroups.com...
I think that's a great idea, but personally I'd be happy if I could simply
*buy* a program like Street Atlas USA for Linux... and that means including
high-quality maps of the U.S. AFAIK the problem is that the commercial map
guys like NavTeq and TeleAtlas are only willing to sell their maps to folks
who'll take reasonable precautions to prevent the data from being trivially
copied into other programs. (I don't know it for a fact, but I suspect the
map databases in Street Atlas, Street & Trips, etc. are encrypted -- otherwise
someone would have written an "extractor" by now so that such data could be
used by the Linux mapping applications.)
The OpenStreetMaps guys seem to be doing a pretty good job, though... perhaps
eventually they will be an acceptable replacement for the commercial
alternatives.
---Joel
k...@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz
<mike.t...@earthlink.net> wrote:
We don't play with their toys either. It's much easier to have them do the
work. ;-)
k...@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz
I guess that counts as a free pass. ;-)
Michael A. Terrell
Engineering had a bad habit of thinking that everything in the
building belonged to them. Like when they swiped the scope off my bench
and took it with them for a couple weeks to a customer's site. When
they got back they discovered that the Tek 2465B they had ordered, had
replaced it. ;-)
Joel Koltner
news:rc6dneFn26D8ZevR...@earthlink.com...
> Engineering had a bad habit of thinking that everything in the
> building belonged to them. Like when they swiped the scope off my bench
> and took it with them for a couple weeks to a customer's site. When
> they got back they discovered that the Tek 2465B they had ordered, had
> replaced it. ;-)
Nice. :-)
Did you get to keep the 2465B?
Michael A. Terrell
Yes. For over two years. Even when I was moved to a new project, it
went with me. :)
They tried to get back at me by banning me from entering or calling
the engineering department, for life. That lasted less than a week.
Alex
Its me, I'm one of the guys who has sent this "I want to do a home
project because I need to get an embedded job" message. I havent
watched any other messages on this list so I dont know if there was
anyone else. Reading the messages in this thread, I understand
people's different views that:
* If anyone does a home project just to get a job, their intentions
are easily exposed and a blinky home project means nothing.
* Yes a home project is valuable and practical
I think it just depends on the situation; how sincere a person is and
how passionate, interested and willing to learn they are about
technology and what their background is, and what the project is. In
my case I love problem solving (but then who doesnt; I know) and
technology, programming and creating unique solutions that do it like
it hasnt been done before.
I did an MS in EE in 2002, did a few job interviews and didnt get
anything so I got back into school and started an MBA. I got that in
2005 and have been a web-designer job since then which pays the bills.
Although I do a good job and am happy about how the job serves people
but I struggle in the job intellectually and it really doesnt use my
talents (it requires aesthetic creativity which I struggle with). For
these 5 years I've been inactive I havent done anything to get a real
EE job. Yes this doesnt leave a good impression of me. I also know
there is a way out. In around 2006 I came to this same list and asked
what I should do to get an embedded job. Many responses were "do a
home project". Yes for 4 years I still havent done anything. I did buy
some Embedded boards/kits as suggested but they've been collecting
dust. Once again I know I'm to blame. I've had chronis sinusitus for
atleast 4 years and the lack of sleep has destroyed my quality of life
and my energy level. I'm now going to the number one ENT in the
country and will have it all fixed by the end of this year. And then I
know I have to work on doing *what it takes* to get a real EE job. I
wish I had the same brain power before my sinus problems and I know I
will have it again.
So to sum it up, I'm very sincere to the electrical engineering field.
Yes my inactiveness of 5 years says the opposite perhaps but I havent
been able to work on it. I know there is a way out. To my left are
sitting 3 embedding kits, still in their boxes. It excites me every
time I look at them (yes I know, how wonderful [sarcasm]). I have a
soldering iron at home. I'm handy with things. I have tonnes of
screwdrivers and tools. I love working with tools, opening things and
tinkering.
I know I could make something that combines embedded stuff into web
technologies. If I was able to do it, it could help reduce the
negativity of my non-EE web-design job that I'm doing right now and I
can turn that into something positive. Here's a diagram of what I
thought I could do:
http://img96.imageshack.us/img96/6690/diagramp.jpg
This is some kind of "enviromental" embedded home project that can
talk to the internet. Not everything here serves a practical purpose,
its for learning. Regarding the wireless part, someone [Michael Karas]
correctly suggested I should use pre-existing Bluetooth instead of
making something 433Mhz at home.
I've been creative and have done some pretty unique things in my
personal life which I'm glad I did, because most people dont make the
choices that I made (except for staying in my non-EE job for 5 years
which was bad). I know I can be creative and unique in technology and
in my career as well. A lot of you look like you're experts, you've
achieved success and all so I'm fortunate to even have this platform.
I dont know what else I can do, given that I have an MSEE from 2002,
did an MBA and since then have been a web-designer. I have to get out
of this situation one way or the other and I know there's a way and
I'll do anything to get there. I know all is not lost and I know I can
do great stuff when I get into the right company in the right job. I
know there's still time.
Money is not an object for me. I can pay my bills and save every
month. I want to do something that I love doing, something that
utilizes my real talents and interests. I have a passion for 'free'
things (renewable energy). I know I can connect that to embedded and
web technologies. I've thought a lot about what kind of job I would
like doing best.
If anyone has any advice on what I should do, I'll be really grateful.
This time I'll do it. I have a new car, a new place, will have a new
'nose' (they'll fix it) and I want to have a new job now too and I'm
hopeful.
Alex
On Aug 24, 11:53 am, Tim Wescott <t...@seemywebsite.com> wrote:
> I do not -- thank God -- have to reenter the job market. But I've seen
> a lot of posts recently that start something like:
>
> "I haven't worked in engineering since 20xx, and I'm (starting)/
> (looking for) a job. To make my (job search)/(first week) more
> successful I'm thinking of doing a project to put on my resume
> and get the juices flowing."
>
> Does this seem to actually help? Is anyone here in a position to hire,
> and if you saw a resume (or interviewed a person) who had done some
> hobby/home project just to get back into the swing of things, would you
> give that much weight? Would you give it _more_ weight than, say, going
> back to school and taking a class or two, or teaching math to villagers
> in Africa for six months*, or doing something that was obviously meant
> to keep your hands busy and make ends meet, like sweeping up at
> MacDonalds or being an engineering manager?
>
> I'm not dissing the notion in any way -- in fact, I have several
> back-burner projects here that I pull out whenever work gets slow. I'm
> just wondering if, when looked at with a cold and cynical eye, the time
> and money spent does a reasonable amount of good.
>
> * A distant friend / good acquaintance of mine is doing this, more for
> himself than for the job prospects.
mi...@sushi.com
> On Aug 24, 1:28 pm, Tim Wescott <t...@seemywebsite.com> wrote:
>
> > What if they made the CDP1802 in their kitchen oven, from sand found in
> > the driveway?
>
> The only person I know who is sufficiently hardcore to do that sort of
> thing is Jeri Ellsworth,http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeri_Ellsworth-
> who apparently has made her own ICs on her home lab bench (as well as
> being famous for the C64-on-a-chip FPGA then later ASIC). Looks like
> 1974 was a good year for cool engineers ;)
>
> pass!
Sixty pinball machines? Damn, I'm in love.
Back to the main question, I think doing something very public
(Makerfaire, Circuit Cellar article, etc) is a good idea to show you
at least have a clue.
I suppose not taking an engineering job is better than taking an
engineering job you don't want. For instance, you want to design but
you take a job in test.
Getting back to Jeri's DIY chip, it is quite possible to do a chip on
open source software. It is just a pain in the ass. I guess to be
clearer, some of the commercial EDA of say Cadence is just cleaned up
Berkeley software. I've played with those open source layout tool and
it's pretty ugly, but haven't tried so in years. Once you have a
layout, take it to Mosis Obviously you design with their spice
parameter file. Basically, it's like how you made chips in college.
ehsjr
Do what you love to do. Even if it doesn't get you the job,
you'll have fun doing it, and learn things.
Expecting that a single "whiz-bang" project will get you hired
is a mistake. It will carry a lot more weight if it is one of
many projects in various areas and of varying complexity.
Ed
JosephKK
You made chips in college? Any others here?
m II
> My question isn't so much do they do it all the time for a hobby -- I
> would certainly look favorably on someone who's been a radio amateur, or
> who's been building Lego robots since they came out or something like that.
Since they came out? The Lego set must have been found in the closet.
mike
mi...@sushi.com
> On Sun, 29 Aug 2010 21:47:40 -0700 (PDT), "m...@sushi.com"
Check out
http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/MOSIS_Users_Group/
RockyG
You haven't seen the LEGO robot modules powered by ARM processors?
---------------------------------------
Posted through http://www.EmbeddedRelated.com
rickman
wrote:
Don't know about Linux, but I use USAPhotoMaps for Windows. It uses
the old USGS data available at the replacement for terraserver.com,
don't recall the URL off the top of my head. What's the big deal
needing Linux? None of that is very portable. When I need directions
or am geocaching or in my kayak, I don't want to have to break out a
laptop. I want something to replace the proprietary crap they sell
for GPS receivers, not a simple map program on a PC.
Rick
Joel Koltner
>What's the big deal
>needing Linux?
I guess it's more or less expected with open-source hardware designs. Why
bother going to open-source hardware the application you meant for it requires
the purchase of a commercial OS? -- You might as well buy closed-sourced
hardware at that point, as there are plenty of perfectly good single-board
computers that run Windows or QNX or other commercial OSes.
> None of that is very portable.
Actually I think that the majority of GPS navigation systems (the aftermarket
ones for cars) run Linux -- they just license the maps directly from TeleAtlas
or NavTech, and have the volume/money to make it viable.
---Joel
k...@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz
I didn't, but the courses (and connected labs) were available. They only did
some pretty simple stuff when I was there, though. They were given a complete
set of tools for ICs a couple of years after I graduated.
Spehro Pefhany
Same here- they had a small fab on campus (maybe 3" wafers) for
researchers and grad students. This was before MOSIS.
Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany
--
"it's the network..." "The Journey is the reward"
sp...@interlog.com Info for manufacturers: http://www.trexon.com
Embedded software/hardware/analog Info for designers: http://www.speff.com
mi...@sushi.com
wrote:
> On Wed, 01 Sep 2010 18:05:35 -0500, the renowned
>
>
>
> "k...@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz" <k...@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz> wrote:
HP was doing fabrication for students prior to Mosis. If it is not
clear here, the mosis projects were multichip. That is, multiple
designs on the same tooling. Very inefficient, but done in companies
that have the R&D budget.
I'm trying to recall the computer CAD tools back then. Kick (sp) or
Magic (sp too!). I don't know of any universities with a Calma back
then. That would have been GDS 1 on Tek storage tubes. If you ever
used one, it was buggy wip technology. The GDS 1 was designed for
digitizers, not on screen layout. It had a DRC, though not very good.
mi...@sushi.com
http://www.gpsfiledepot.com/
has free topo maps. These can be loaded on garmin gear.
k...@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz
wrote:
>On Sep 1, 5:27 pm, Spehro Pefhany <speffS...@interlogDOTyou.knowwhat>
The students did the work at UIUC. That was part of the deal.
JosephKK
Well i'll be swaged, it is still around. Cool.
rickman
We are not on the same page here. I'm not talking about a PC. I'm
talking about a GPS device... a handheld GPS device. It won't be
running Windows or Linux. Trying to power a device running Linux is a
loosing battle. How long does an Android cell phone actually run on a
charge. I don't mean sleep, I mean run! My GPS receivers run for 12
hours and they are 10 year old technology! A modern GPS receiver
needs to run for 20 hours or more to be competitive. Any OS that
requires so much memory that it needs an MMU is not an option in a
truly hand held device.
Rick