EETools Topmax
Long
programmer? I recently bought a Needham's EMP-20 but returned it and
paid a little more for an EETools Topmax for the following reasons:
- low voltage device support: the EMP-20 only supports devices down to 5V
while the Topmax also supports 3.3/2.7/1.8V (EETools doesn't mention 1.8V
support on their web site but the AMD AM29SL800/AM29SL160 1.8V devices
are listed in their software). I emailed EETools to suggest listing
1.8V support.
- family modules: I experienced the family modules and wanted to avoid
the hassle. Didn't want to bother with looking for and having the right
family module installed every time I program a device. There are
currently 29 family modules for the EMP-20 so I'll be spending an
additional ~$400 if I wanted support for all devices. The Topmax have
programmable pin drivers and doesn't require family modules. Not having
to buy and the convenience and time saved with not having to deal
with family modules ever is worth more than the ~$400 price difference
between the two units.
- device support: The EMP-20 currently supports 1530 devices, EMP-30 with
2245 devices and Topmax with 3356 devices.
- frequency of software updates: EMP-20 and EMP-30 software last updated
3/27/200. Topmax last updated 5/4/200 with at least 3 updates within the
last two weeks or so when I started researching device programmers.
- DOS and Windows support: EMP-20 supports DOS and Windows 95/98, EMP-30
supports DOS and Windows 9X/NT4/NT2000, Topmax supports DOS and Windows
9X/NT4/NT2000. Didn't have any problems running either in a DOS box
under Windows 98 SE with ECP/EPP printer port mode setting. EMP-30 has
Windows version of software but is listed as beta with fewer devices
support than DOS version. Topmax also has Windows software version with
same revision number as DOS software (haven't tried).
- software ease of use: EMP-20 requires manual look-up of devices.
Topmax can search by typing in a few letters of manufacturer and/or part
number. Topmax also supports auto device ID on some devices and testing
of memory and logic ICs. Edge goes to Topmax software.
- quality of construction: EMP-20 has plastic case with internal fan.
Case wasn't flush underneath with slight bulging at one corner. Topmax
has metal case with no fan. Topmax wins with better construction, better
simpler design for low heat with no fan to rattle and break down.
- power supply: EMP-20 has external wall plug. Topmax has internal PS
which is a little more convenient (no "Dang, I forgot the wall plug").
- additional features: Topmax has removable adapter module, RJ-45 port to
interface optional EPROM/EEPROM/flash emulator
- support: Both Needham's and EETools are local Northern California based
companies. Did a search of the newgroups with good things said about
both companies' support. Both companies answer with a live person when
calling by phone. I've sent emails to EETools and got a response within
a few days. I haven't requested for a new device support but they both
seem willing to help.
I also considered some other companies but narrowed down to one with the
best combination of price, device support, software updates, support and
if it's a local company. For support, consider a local company with
local engineering support to better support you.
Advantech LabTool-48 $1295, slightly higher price, good device support,
pin drivers (doesn't require family modules), supports devices down to
3.3V, frequent and recent software updates, not a local company, support
unknown
BP Micro BP-1400 $8995, very good device support, pin driver (doesn't
require family modules), supports devices down to 2.7V, frequent and
recent software updates, nearly fell out of my chair when they replied to
my email with the price quote (yes, that's $8995), local company
EETools Topmax $879-995, to be fair I list prices that are publicly
available, I managed to get mine for $850, pin drivers (doesn't require
family modules), good device support, supports devices down to 2.7V
(looks like it also does 1.8V), frequent and recent software updates,
local company
Needham's EMP-30 $895-995, requires inconvenient family modules but all
available family modules included at time of purchase, supports devices
down to 1.8V, fairly recent software updates, good support, local company
Needham's EMP-20 $429-449, requires inconvenient family modules as an
additional purchase (3 included, additional family modules $50 for 3),
fairly recent software updates, supports devices to 5V, good support,
local company, if you plan to program a lot of devices you're better off
with the EMP-30 or go with a different manufacturer
Xeltek Super Pro III $650-695, good price, good device support, pin
drivers (doesn't require family modules), fairly recent software
updates, some negative posts regarding support (support questionable),
seems like they stop supporting a unit when it gets replaced by a newer
model, not a local company
Andy Peters
>Anyone have any experience with the EETools Topmax universal device
>programmer?
I have the TopMax "Universal Programmer" w/the TM-A48 pod sitting here on my
desk.
>- frequency of software updates: EMP-20 and EMP-30 software last updated
>3/27/200. Topmax last updated 5/4/200 with at least 3 updates within the
>last two weeks or so when I started researching device programmers.
I think the updates are mostly to add new device support.
>- DOS and Windows support: EMP-20 supports DOS and Windows 95/98, EMP-30
>supports DOS and Windows 9X/NT4/NT2000, Topmax supports DOS and Windows
>9X/NT4/NT2000. Didn't have any problems running either in a DOS box
>under Windows 98 SE with ECP/EPP printer port mode setting. EMP-30 has
>Windows version of software but is listed as beta with fewer devices
>support than DOS version. Topmax also has Windows software version with
>same revision number as DOS software (haven't tried).
I'm using the Windows software on an NT box.
>- software ease of use: EMP-20 requires manual look-up of devices.
>Topmax can search by typing in a few letters of manufacturer and/or part
>number. Topmax also supports auto device ID on some devices and testing
>of memory and logic ICs. Edge goes to Topmax software.
Except the software does not have online help, so figuring out what some of
the features are is a bit of a challenge. Good luck trying to figure out
how to load a hex-formatted file. And there's a "config option" dialog
which lets you set the port speed, and it's not obvious why you'd want to
change that option (but see below).
And there are spelling and grammar errors EVERYWHERE. "Device signature
dose not match." "The polarity of the Reset/OE pin may be toggle. Press ok
to make RESET to toggle polarity." OK, that's picking nits, but I think
that if they can't spell right, can they code correctly?
>- support: Both Needham's and EETools are local Northern California based
>companies. Did a search of the newgroups with good things said about
>both companies' support. Both companies answer with a live person when
>calling by phone. I've sent emails to EETools and got a response within
>a few days. I haven't requested for a new device support but they both
>seem willing to help.
EEtools willing to help? Sure, maybe, until you have an actual problem. It
turns out that we couldn't get the thing to program our parts (Atmel
AT17LV010), and calling their tech support was less than useless. The woman
who answers the phone must be having a bad YEAR, because another engineer
called there and had the same problem. This person is arrogant and nasty
and immediately assumes that the problems are the user's fault, regardless
of the details. So I asked to speak to the "president of the company" and
eventually spoke to someone who still couldn't answer my question. It turns
out that the port speed had to be reduced to "slow," which I discovered by
accident. Do they test their software? I don't really think so. Clearly,
they don't understand how the end-user would actually use the product.
Did I mention the lack of a help file?
Oh, yeah, the 20-pin PLCC-to-DIP deadbug programming adapter shipped with
Pin 1 in the wrong position.
What's funny/sad is that this was the SECOND Topmax box with the same
problem. They gave us an RMA for the first one, which we sent back, only to
have the second one have the same problems. It costs them money.
I should have sent the goddamn thing back, just on general principles.
-- andy
-----------------------------------------
Andy Peters
Sr Electrical Engineer
National Optical Astronomy Observatories
950 N Cherry Ave
Tucson, AZ 85719
apeters (at) noao \dot\ edu
"A sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic"
--Arthur C. Clarke
Norm Dresner
Andy Peters <apeters...@nospam.noao.edu.nospam> wrote in message
news:8fc25b$g0q$1...@noao.edu...
[SNIP of long Vent against Topmax]
Keith R. Williams
> Anyone have any experience with the EETools Topmax universal device
> programmer?
I have the cheaper EETools ChipMax, so my experience may not be
directly transferrable to the TopMax. My needs arn't complicated, but
I'm not impressed at all! The software is impossible to use and so
buggy that I'm about to throw the thing away. If I push the wrong
Win-buttons it will hang with the system speaker screaming. The thing
also seems to fail diagnostics, but it programs devices anyway. It's
cheap, but I believe there is a reason. Anyway, Yuck!
> BP Micro BP-1400 $8995, very good device support, pin driver (doesn't
> require family modules), supports devices down to 2.7V, frequent and
> recent software updates, nearly fell out of my chair when they replied to
> my email with the price quote (yes, that's $8995), local company
That must be a production tool. BP Micro also has a $1500 programmer.
I had one of theirs in a previous assignment and it was first-rate.
If I can convince management to spend the $1500 the ChipMax is going
in the garbage.
Again, my experience with the cheaper ChipMax may, or may not, be
revelant to the TopMax.
Also look at DataIO. I believe they have some reasonably priced lab
programmers, though they are more expensive than BPMicro.
----
Keith
Kenneth Casselman
(snip)
> > BP Micro BP-1400 $8995, very good device support, pin driver (doesn't
> > require family modules), supports devices down to 2.7V, frequent and
> > recent software updates, nearly fell out of my chair when they replied to
> > my email with the price quote (yes, that's $8995), local company
>
> That must be a production tool. BP Micro also has a $1500 programmer.
> I had one of theirs in a previous assignment and it was first-rate.
> If I can convince management to spend the $1500 the ChipMax is going
> in the garbage.
>
(snip)
I have been using a BP1148 from BP Microsystems Inc. for a couple of
years now, and I have found it to be completely reliable. This is their
entry level machine. It provides good support for memory devices and
programmable logic, but is somewhat limited when it comes to micros
(OK for 8051 type parts, not so good when it comes to Motorola or PIC
parts - check the device support list on their web site). If you can
afford it, you're probably better going with the BP1200 (the 1148 can
be upgraded to a 1200 if you want to go that route). BP are a bit
expensive (the Canadian dollar ain't worth what it used to be), but I
think you get what you pay for. Rugged, reliable, free software
upgrades...
Oh yes, software. I waited a long time for BP to release the Windows
version of their software, but now that it's available, I find I prefer
the DOS version (maybe I just got used to it).
Ken