Timing Diagram Editors

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James Beck

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Feb 16, 2005, 5:37:14 PM2/16/05
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Does anyone make a DECENT timing diagram editor?
I don't need any timing analysis, just some pretty graphics to help get
some information across to some techs that do not speak English very
well, and I'm sure the data will be needed for a manual as well. The
timings are in milliseconds, not ns and my googling has led to some
pretty expensive dead ends.

Jim

Roberto Waltman

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Feb 16, 2005, 6:16:47 PM2/16/05
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"Timing Diagrams" suggests to me very simple line graphics that many
programs could produce. You do not say for what environment/OS, but
these few would cover DOS/Windows/Unices:
Visio, the built-in graphics in MS-Word, Dia, the Gimp, OpenOffice's
Draw, Karbon14, Skencil, QCad, Xfig, and any low end 2D CAD program.
(You can probably find old DOS CAD software for less than $10, old
versions of Autosketch, TurboCad, etc.)

If you do not need any "timing analysis" (whatever that means,) what
are the requirement for timing diagram editor?

Roberto Waltman.

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Matthew Kendall

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Feb 17, 2005, 12:19:38 AM2/17/05
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"James Beck" <j...@reallykillersystems.com> wrote...

> Does anyone make a DECENT timing diagram editor?
> I don't need any timing analysis, just some pretty
> graphics to help get some information across to some
> techs that do not speak English very well, and I'm
> sure the data will be needed for a manual as well.

Timing Designer from Chronology is the standard.
http://www.chronology.com/index.asp

As you have probably noticed, it's not cheap. But it does meet your
requirement of being decent. You say you don't need timing analysis. If that
is true then you can just use your favourite vector graphics editor. You
don't need a timing diagram editor per se. I would use Visio. Others have
made equally good suggestions.

However, you are probably going to want some kind of automation, whereby you
can change some numbers and the picture changes automatically. In that case
Timing Designer is probably your best bet.


Rufus V. Smith

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Feb 17, 2005, 9:54:34 AM2/17/05
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"Matthew Kendall" <mdke...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:KPVQd.412284$8l.378992@pd7tw1no...

Actually, you can do some very decent timing diagrams with
Excel. Are you simply talking about square waves, a la logic
analyzer traces?

I use data something like this, for example:

1 1 3 6
1 1 4 6
2 1 4 6
2 1 3 6
3 1 3 6
3 2 4 6
4 2 4 6
4 2 3 5
5 2 3 5
5 2 4 5
6 2 4 5
6 2 3 5
7 2 3 5
7 2 4 5
8 2 4 5
8 1 3 5
9 1 3 5
9 1 4 5
10 1 4 5
10 1 3 6
11 1 3 6
11 1 4 6


Then I specify Line Chart, X/Y, no Gridlines.

I have duplicate X values in the first column to provide nice
edge transitions. The first x of a pair gets the value before
the transition, the second the value after.

(Note: in cases where no values change, you don't need duplicate
lines, but this was easier to type in on short notice...)

Paste this into excel (or any spreadsheet with graphics, I imagine),
select the area and graph it, and you'll see what it looks like (I
don't want to html this response to show you). Then you can customize
your graph how you like it.

You can even put formulas in and watch it change dynamically.

I even had a way to even scroll the timing waveform at one point, but
that's not at my fingertips at the moment.

Rufus


James Beck

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Feb 17, 2005, 10:40:36 AM2/17/05
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In article <u0l711d99drpdid6i...@4ax.com>,
use...@rwaltman.net says...
It is pretty simple line drawings, BUT it has to a little more than draw
lines and such. The ability to specify exact positions on a timeline is
just about a must, or you spend hours doing manual editing of edges and
text. It is possible, but there are easier ways to do it and time is
money. The "timing analysis" part is pretty obvious if you have done a
look at what commercial products are out there.

Jim

James Beck

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Feb 17, 2005, 10:47:56 AM2/17/05
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In article <KPVQd.412284$8l.378992@pd7tw1no>, mdke...@hotmail.com
says...
Yes, I was looking for a little more automation that just drawing,
basically, by hand. I have pretty much dug through everything that
looked promising during my Google search and, just like the "Timing
Designer from Chronology", I would be paying a load of cash for features
I just don't need.

Jim

Georgi Beloev

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Feb 17, 2005, 4:40:59 PM2/17/05
to

I think this one has free evaluation, not sure if it's good:

http://www.timingtool.com/

-- Georgi

Arie de Muynck

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Feb 17, 2005, 5:34:48 PM2/17/05
to
"James Beck" ...


I often use ASCII, fixed font:

________________________________
___| |_______
____
__________________________| |____________
________________ __ ___ ____
---<________________X__X___XXXXX____>-------

0 1 2 2 3 4

0 signal starts tri-state
1 turnon
2 transition
3 illegal / undefined
4 goes tri-state

Note the upper trace (enable) changes just before the result (tri-state on
and off), etc.

--
Regards,
Arie de Muynck

Anton Erasmus

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Feb 18, 2005, 8:47:34 AM2/18/05
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Most vector drawing packages can do this. Of course spending
time on editing lines is hardly productive. There are quite a few
packages that has scripting support built in. Using this should allow
you to fairly easily provide dynamic lines, which you can specify
using a simple script. Using this approach gnuplot is a possibility.

Regards
Anton Erasmus

Anton Erasmus

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Feb 18, 2005, 9:01:52 AM2/18/05
to

If one defines a nice TrueType font, then this approach can generate
very nice looking diagrams.

Regards
Anton Erasmus

Anton Erasmus

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Feb 18, 2005, 9:06:13 AM2/18/05
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Here is a link to such a TrueType font.
http://www.josephpalmer.com/etc-local/misc/xwave.zip

Regards
Anton Erasmus

Roberto Waltman

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Feb 18, 2005, 9:12:11 AM2/18/05
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<j...@reallykillersystems.com> wrote:
>It is pretty simple line drawings, BUT it has to a little more than draw
>lines and such. The ability to specify exact positions on a timeline is
>just about a must, or you spend hours doing manual editing of edges and
>text. It is possible, but there are easier ways to do it and time is
>money. The "timing analysis" part is pretty obvious if you have done a
>look at what commercial products are out there.
>
> Jim

I wonder if (just thinking aloud) a Project Management / Critical Path
Method, etc. program could be coerced into producing this kind of
drawings? (Or produce some kind of output that could be converted into
drawings?)
They deal with the same type of constraints: "This action lasts at
least such and such time", "This event must happen before that", "That
event happens at time X" and so on.

Arie de Muynck

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Feb 18, 2005, 2:52:43 PM2/18/05
to
"Anton Erasmus" ...

> Here is a link to such a TrueType font.
> http://www.josephpalmer.com/etc-local/misc/xwave.zip

Thanks! This looks really fine.

Regards,
Arie de Muynck


James Beck

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Feb 18, 2005, 3:56:52 PM2/18/05
to
In article <8itb11dioqlsc2iou...@4ax.com>,
use...@rwaltman.net says...
Well, I had to actually try to get some work done on these diagrams
today, and I still didn't find anything that looked decent. So, I broke
down and used my CAD package to just sledge hammer some stuff together.
It wasn't too bad using a fixed step rate to be equal to a fixed period
of time. The only nice thing is that most of the information I need to
convey can be presented on a 1000ms timeline with 2ms resolution. I
just made a template and went to work.

Jim

Piotr Golabek

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Feb 20, 2005, 2:39:12 PM2/20/05
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What about using waveform editor built-in into Quartus software (Altera
fpga, free)?

Uzytkownik "James Beck" <j...@reallykillersystems.com> napisal w wiadomosci
news:MPG.1c7d9524a...@news.west.earthlink.net...

Noel Henson

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Feb 21, 2005, 9:34:22 AM2/21/05
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James Beck wrote:

Timing Tool is pretty cool. I use it from time to time. It's a java applet
so you use it online. It's really well done and free for the 'lite' version.


www.timingtool.com

Noel

Albert van der Horst

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Feb 23, 2005, 7:46:10 AM2/23/05
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In article <1108651803.7e330bd69b9964cf91f0bc092ce3dd19@teranews>,

Rufus V. Smith <nos...@nospam.com> wrote:
>
>"Matthew Kendall" <mdke...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>news:KPVQd.412284$8l.378992@pd7tw1no...
>> "James Beck" <j...@reallykillersystems.com> wrote...
>> > Does anyone make a DECENT timing diagram editor?
>> > I don't need any timing analysis, just some pretty
>> > graphics to help get some information across to some
>> > techs that do not speak English very well, and I'm
>> > sure the data will be needed for a manual as well.
>>
>> Timing Designer from Chronology is the standard.
>> http://www.chronology.com/index.asp
>>
<SNIP>

>
>Actually, you can do some very decent timing diagrams with
>Excel. Are you simply talking about square waves, a la logic
>analyzer traces?
>
>I use data something like this, for example:
>
<SNIP>

If you go to that great a length, you are better of programming
in a real language like PostScript directly.
Note that about everybody has a PostScript interpreter available
in the guise of a printer driver or whatever.

Examples of usage of this can be found on my site
http://home.hccnet.nl/a.w.m.van.der.horst
e.g. forthassembler.html (I'm doing opcode sheets with PostScript).
It helps if you have exposure to stack based languages, (Forth).

Postludes and preludes are a bit of magic, but you need not
understand them anyway. (I don't.)

The nice thing about a programmed approach is that you can
easily tweak (e.g. change length of scale, filling in
ms/scale etc.)

>
>Rufus

Groetjes Albert
--

--
Albert van der Horst,Oranjestr 8,3511 RA UTRECHT,THE NETHERLANDS
One man-hour to invent,
One man-week to implement,
One lawyer-year to patent.

Rufus V. Smith

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Feb 24, 2005, 9:56:45 AM2/24/05
to

"Albert van der Horst" <alb...@spenarnc.xs4all.nl> wrote in message
news:icd7g...@spenarnc.xs4all.nl...

On the other hand, for purposes of training, Excel has all the
annotation tools as well for presentation of the graphs.

So you can drag and drop call out balloons and line art to
embellish the graph to your liking, which would be a lot more work
if done programmatically.

It all boils down to how much you have to do and how often and tools
you are used to.

Rufus

Steve Krenek mad.<spam>scientist.com>

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Mar 29, 2005, 11:29:42 PM3/29/05
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On Wed, 16 Feb 2005 22:37:14 GMT, James Beck
<j...@reallykillersystems.com> wrote:

You need, like man, what you really need is TimeGen from Xfusion
software.
I had exactly the same requirement as you, and this is the tool you
want.

www.xfusionsoftware.com

Steve

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James Beck

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Mar 30, 2005, 8:55:31 AM3/30/05
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In article <2kak41t2l16nqt5ct...@4ax.com>, Steve Krenek
<steve.k@<no>mad.<spam>scientist.com> says...

> On Wed, 16 Feb 2005 22:37:14 GMT, James Beck
> <j...@reallykillersystems.com> wrote:
>
> >
> >Does anyone make a DECENT timing diagram editor?
> >I don't need any timing analysis, just some pretty graphics to help get
> >some information across to some techs that do not speak English very
> >well, and I'm sure the data will be needed for a manual as well. The
> >timings are in milliseconds, not ns and my googling has led to some
> >pretty expensive dead ends.
> >
> > Jim
>
> You need, like man, what you really need is TimeGen from Xfusion
> software.
> I had exactly the same requirement as you, and this is the tool you
> want.
>
> www.xfusionsoftware.com
>
> Steve
>
I actually downloaded the trial version of this one HOPING it would do
what I wanted, but for some reason (now forgotten). I didn't like it/had
a problem with it/it didn't do everything I needed. You know......

Jim

Anton Erasmus

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Mar 30, 2005, 12:49:00 PM3/30/05
to
On Wed, 30 Mar 2005 13:55:31 GMT, James Beck
<j...@reallykillersystems.com> wrote:

>In article <2kak41t2l16nqt5ct...@4ax.com>, Steve Krenek
><steve.k@<no>mad.<spam>scientist.com> says...
>> On Wed, 16 Feb 2005 22:37:14 GMT, James Beck
>> <j...@reallykillersystems.com> wrote:
>>
>> >
>> >Does anyone make a DECENT timing diagram editor?
>> >I don't need any timing analysis, just some pretty graphics to help get
>> >some information across to some techs that do not speak English very
>> >well, and I'm sure the data will be needed for a manual as well. The
>> >timings are in milliseconds, not ns and my googling has led to some
>> >pretty expensive dead ends.
>> >
>> > Jim
>>
>> You need, like man, what you really need is TimeGen from Xfusion
>> software.
>> I had exactly the same requirement as you, and this is the tool you
>> want.
>>
>> www.xfusionsoftware.com
>>
>> Steve
>>
>I actually downloaded the trial version of this one HOPING it would do
>what I wanted, but for some reason (now forgotten). I didn't like it/had
>a problem with it/it didn't do everything I needed. You know......
>

There was a discussion about this a month or so ago. One cheap and
easy way is to use a font that contains all the necessary elements
used in timing diagrams, and then simply use a text editor to generate
the diagrams.

Regards
Anton Erasmus

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