DAMNED CREATURE POSTINGS!

Eric D Crahen

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Dec 9, 1996, 3:00:00 AM12/9/96

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These creatures postings are killing this new group. We used to get some
interesting discussions going. Now it's all about creatures. Maybe some of
you should get together and create alt.games.creatures for yourselves.

Stephen Keegan

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Dec 9, 1996, 3:00:00 AM12/9/96

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Hurray! I am not the only one who thinks this NG is going downhill!

Stephen Keegan

Jasper Phillips

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Dec 9, 1996, 3:00:00 AM12/9/96

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In article <32AC61...@perkin-elmer.com>,

No kidding, I may not have posted much, but at least when I followed
along the converstions were interesting, and relavent to AI.

Creatures is AI related to a certain extent, I suppose, but the current crop
of discussion is _not. Now if people were to talk about what makes
Creatures work or ways to improve the AI, that would be different.

Personally, I think the Creatures traffic belongs in another, gaming
related group.

-Jasper

PS I have nothing against games, and am a very avid gamer myself; I am
also interested in how AI works, and think that the off topic traffic
has chased away most, if not all, of the on topic, interesting traffic.
Find, or make an appropriate place for Creatures gossip.

--
/\ Jasper Phillips (Pit Fiend) ______,....----,
/VVVVVVVVVVVVVV|==================="""""""""""" ___,..-'
`^^^^^^^^^^^^^^|======================----------""""""
\/ http://www.cs.orst.edu/~philljas/

Brian Ballard

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Dec 10, 1996, 3:00:00 AM12/10/96

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Jasper Phillips (phil...@wy.ENGR.ORST.EDU) wrote:
: In article <32AC61...@perkin-elmer.com>,

: -Jasper

Well I for one think it has made this group just a little bit interesting
for once...admittedly not too much time has been spent discussing the AI
aspects of the game but people can only do that one they have experience
of it. I dont have the gamee but its a hell of a lot more interesting chat
than th usual boring woffle about chess or Noughts and Crosses.... give
it time..... Who knows what might come from it.

Frank Murphy

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Dec 10, 1996, 3:00:00 AM12/10/96

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Well gee if you seemed to have read the creatures postings you'd have known
that creatures is working on getting its own newsgroup and you may have not
been informed that creatures does in fact belong right here! This is one
of the biggest technoligical break-throughs in AI anything. I can
guarantee the you will not see this much comotion over one program for a
very long time. So maybe you'd better really read the posts instead of
going, "Dohf, another stupid creatures posting!"

Cyberpunk alway on the lookout for..... stuff

SuPeRFLy

Eric D Crahen <cra...@cs.buffalo.edu> wrote in article
<58h7q8$s...@prometheus.acsu.buffalo.edu>...

William Uther

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Dec 10, 1996, 3:00:00 AM12/10/96

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In article <58jlkc$7...@saturn.brighton.ac.uk>, bb...@bton.ac.uk (Brian
Ballard) wrote:

>Jasper Phillips (phil...@wy.ENGR.ORST.EDU) wrote:
>: In article <32AC61...@perkin-elmer.com>,
>: Stephen Keegan <keeg...@perkin-elmer.com> wrote:
>: >Eric D Crahen wrote:
>: >>

>: >> These creatures postings are killing this new group. We used to get some

>: >> interesting discussions going. Now it's all about creatures. Maybe some of
>: >> you should get together and create alt.games.creatures for yourselves.

[snip - other people agreeing]

>Well I for one think it has made this group just a little bit interesting
>for once...admittedly not too much time has been spent discussing the AI
>aspects of the game but people can only do that one they have experience
>of it. I dont have the gamee but its a hell of a lot more interesting chat
>than th usual boring woffle about chess or Noughts and Crosses.... give
>it time..... Who knows what might come from it.

Hmm. This may sound a little harsh, but your interests are immaterial.
This is fundamentally an AI newgroup. It's comp.ai.games, not
rec.games.ai. If you're not interested in that, go somewhere else. We're
not holding you here.

If you want to discuss how to play a particular game, that's fine. Just
please don't do it here. Why not take it to rec.games.misc? It would be
more appropriate there. While noone was complaining I wasn't going to -
but I'll certainly add my voice now its started - please stop the off topic
posts.

If you want to discuss a new group for it here I'm not going to object, but
even that might be more appropriate to another group.

To quote from the FAQ:

>1.3 What are _not_ appropriate topics for comp.ai.games?
>
> - Discussion of tips for beating existing games.

Ok, so you don't 'win' in creatures, but you're discussing how to play it
rather than the AI.

Cordially,

\x/ill :-}

--
William Uther "Duct tape is like the force:
wi...@cs.cmu.edu It has a Light side and a Dark side,
Dept. of Computer Science, And it binds the universe together"
Carnegie Mellon University http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~will/

hsblab

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Dec 11, 1996, 3:00:00 AM12/11/96

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It seems that some peoples real intelligance is perhaps as good as most
AI's that are around these days. Nowhere in this news group, as far as
I can tell, does it state that when one topic starts, another must
stop! Instead of complaining about the 'lack of content' why not make
some content yourself? Or perhaps this is a little beyond you?

I'm not an AI expert or student, merely an interested reader and
poster. Put something up for discussion, I'll check it out, but
whinning is pretty idiotic.

Peter

Eric Dybsand

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Dec 11, 1996, 3:00:00 AM12/11/96

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In article <01bbe6ec$ae48d660$6ad88dcc@superfly>,
"Frank Murphy" <supe...@netrom.com> wrote:

>Well gee if you seemed to have read the creatures postings you'd have known
>that creatures is working on getting its own newsgroup and you may have not
>been informed that creatures does in fact belong right here! This is one
>of the biggest technoligical break-throughs in AI anything. I can
>guarantee the you will not see this much comotion over one program for a
>very long time. So maybe you'd better really read the posts instead of
>going, "Dohf, another stupid creatures posting!"
>
> Cyberpunk alway on the lookout for..... stuff
>
> SuPeRFLy
>

Well, I had planned to stay out of the "off-topic Creatures posing" thread
that was bound to emerge, but I guess I just have to add my opinion to the
weight of those who would like to see the Creatures discussion moved
to a more appropriate newsgroup.

SuPeRFly, I _have_ read the creatures posts. Today there were 14 and
not a single one of them had a thing to discuss about AI in computer
games, creatures or any other game. They were about disk problems and
web pages and norms hair color and where can I get the game and how do
I do .... in creatures and whatever. There was nothing, again, nothing
about the AI in the game.

I think its great that many folks like this game and I hope its authors
make lots of money selling it. At the same time, I also feel that comp.ai.games
is a forum for the discussion of developing ARTIFICIAL INTELLIGENCE in
computer games, and is not supposed to be a place for general computer
game discussion (which is what 99% of the creatures posts seem to be).

The comp.ai.games newsgroup used to be THE LOWEST noise-to-signal newsgroup
that I would read. Unfortunately, due to the influence of nettiquete insensative
folks that post requests for pirated games, game hints, general computer game
development questions, get-me-rich schemes, web page announcements, new
computer game announcements and creatures discussions, that now it is as
noisy as most rec.* groups.

Hopefully, most of the readers of comp.ai.games will each, begin to try
to get this group back on to the topic, of discussing the development of
ARTIFICIAL INTELLIGENCE in computer games, and that soon the noise produced
by all the off-topic posting will die away.

Regards to all,

Eric

Mark Stacey

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Dec 13, 1996, 3:00:00 AM12/13/96

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: No kidding, I may not have posted much, but at least when I followed
: along the converstions were interesting, and relavent to AI.

I have seen discussions in here on sprite drawing, double buffering etc.
etc.

If you don't have an intererest in a certain area being discussed, avoid
those posts. In any newsgroup, you will not be interested in all areas
being discussed. If you aren't, just skip over them. There are
some people in here interested in Programming the AI for games, Double
Buffering AND Creatures. However, if someone started talking about
something I wasn't interested in I would just ignore it and go on to the
next thing.....

Come on! There are mor important things to worry about!

Mark

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
...Someone take these dreams away, that point me to another day.

Mark Stacey.
Internet: m...@bton.ac.uk Fido Net:Mark Stacey@2:441/93.8
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

ss...@intranet.ca

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Dec 13, 1996, 3:00:00 AM12/13/96

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To: Phil...@wy.engr.orst.edu
Subject: Re: DAMNED CREATURE POSTI

Ph> No kidding, I may not have posted much, but at least when I followed
Ph> along the converstions were interesting, and relavent to AI.

Just like this one . . . :)

Ph> Personally, I think the Creatures traffic belongs in another, gaming
Ph> related group.

Definitely... Or, you can be like me and flood the offenders with a form
letter every time they post off-topic posts about Creatures. Usually there
are one or two people who keep the discussion going who will eventually learn
how to read FAQs before posting in newsgroups.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Sunir Shah WWW: http://intranet.ca/~sshah/
WASTE (AI Contest): /waste/waste.html comp.ai.games FAQ: /cagfaq.html
Programmers' Booklist: /booklist.html Synapsis: /synapsis.html
-"It's not a mistake./This is my haircut." _This is my Haircut_, 54-40-

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Jan Schrage

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Dec 14, 1996, 3:00:00 AM12/14/96

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[snip, cf. previous postings of Eric Cahen and William Uther]

I completely and utterly agree with the two of you. I've been off the
net (and this group) some time and first thing I see is creatures
creeping everywhere. And, to answer to other posts, it is _not_ the AI
being discussed but more on the lines of "oooooh, I've made this
cuuuuute little creature and how ...". And yes, I have indeed read some
of them and they do not belong in comp.ai.games, no matter what
anybody's idea about proper topics is. Read the FAQ. I guess we will all
be happy to discuss the AI of the game but so far this isn't it.

-jan

.. . .. .... .. . ... .. . ... ... ... .. ... ...... ... .. .... ........
Jan Schrage fpu...@havk-nt.hav-xy.qr
uggc://jjj.havk-nt.hav-xy.qr/~fpuentr/
PGP Public Key: finger fpu...@cvmmn.havk-nt.hav-xy.qr

.....Sig rot13ed for minimal bot protection. If you wish to mail me
please read uggc://jjj.havk-nt.hav-xy.qr/~fpuentr/znvy.ugzy, since mail
from .com and some .net sites will be killed automatically.............

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ss...@intranet.ca

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Dec 17, 1996, 3:00:00 AM12/17/96

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Stupid ISP.. lost this msg too.. culled it from a reply to it. (replies to
replies...*sigh*)

Un>So there'd be some interest in, say, a construction kit which allows
Un>the creation of WarCraft II style games, complete with programming
Un>language for the units ?

If it makes you feel any better, WASTE generation n=n+1 (where n is the
generation you think it'll be, then you reapply this new n to the formula to
come up with a new n, which you reapply . . . and so on) should come with an
economic model.

Ofc, as all the WASTians know, WASTE is kind of stalled until I can figure out
how to get away with only four hours of sleep a night instead of six. ;)

sma...@earthlink.net

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Dec 18, 1996, 3:00:00 AM12/18/96

to Frank Murphy

I 100% agree with you! Creatures is remarkable, and it is unfortunate
that at the moment there isn't a specified news group. But this is one
of the few places that someone who has purchased the software would
think to go. If your sick of reading about Creatures, DON'T, it's very
easy you know! So please forgive us, but could it be possible for you to
hang on to your trousers until we get the site?
Thanks...

ss...@intranet.ca

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Dec 18, 1996, 3:00:00 AM12/18/96

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To: Supe...@netrom.com

Subject: Re: DAMNED CREATURE POSTI

Superfly, this isn't directed at you specifically, so don't take personal
offence.

Su> here! This is one of the biggest technoligical break-throughs in AI
Su> anything. I can guarantee the you will not see this much comotion over
Su> one program for a very long time. So maybe you'd better really read
Su> the posts instead of going, "Dohf, another stupid creatures posting!"

OTOH, stuff about how the disks don't work or an explanation of the icon
system should be taken to gaming groups.

Read the FAQ.

1.3 What are _not_ appropriate topics for comp.ai.games?

- Discussion of tips for beating existing games.

- Discussion of why you liked or didn't like a particular game, except
as it used AI.
- Endless is not/is too discussions of what constitutes AI, of why
academics do or do not have anything to show for all their work, or
of why Game A's purported AI is better than Game B's.

We're on the second one. NTM all the technical things. The charter:

CHARTER for comp.ai.games

The newsgroup comp.ai.games will provide a forum for the
discussion of artificial intelligence in games and game-playing. The
group will explore practical and theoretical aspects of applying
artificial intelligence concepts to the domain of game-playing.
In addition to the traditional game areas such as chess and go,
the group will also welcome those seeking to bring artificial
intelligence into other computer games. Computer games in this
context would consist of games played by humans against computers, and
by computers (including robots) against each other.
This newsgroup is not an appropriate place for the discussion of
machine specific coding problems, nor is it the proper place to
discuss strategies for defeating computer opponents in existing games.
There are other newsgroups already in existence to answer these
questions.

[Addendum begins . . . here!]

I would also like to point out that comp.ai.games is *not* just for
professional or academic discussion of artificial intelligence in games.
Amateurs and hobbyist game developers will find themselves welcome here
as well.

Steven Miles

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Dec 18, 1996, 3:00:00 AM12/18/96

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I guess the first AI that needs to be designed is an intelligent agent to
filter the junk.

Steven

ss...@intranet.ca

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Dec 21, 1996, 3:00:00 AM12/21/96

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To: Sma...@earthlink.net

Subject: Re: DAMNED CREATURE POSTI

Sm> If your sick of reading about Creatures, DON'T,

Help me! I'm drowning in norn goo.

Sm> So please forgive us, but could it be possible for you to hang on to
Sm> your trousers until we get the site?

That'd take forever. In the meantime, maybe someone will point out that
technical problems have nothing to do with AI.

Oh wait, I just did.

Read the FAQ. It covers this.