Saturday - December 28 Recap

[John]

Terry brought out a good point on Eutychus:

Acts 20:9 And there sat in a window a certain young man named
Eutychus, being fallen into a deep sleep: and as Paul was long
preaching, he sunk down with sleep, and fell down from the third loft,
and was taken up dead.

It is interesting that we have Paul here preaching--looks to largely
be a one-way lesson directed at a rather large group of people.
Eutychus, we can tell, is so "engaged and interested" that he falls
asleep, falls from the loft and is thought dead. We have no interview
with Eutychus afterward, but maybe he was thinking that if he had to
sit through a lecture like that again he would be better off dead.

This reminds me of a couple of weeks ago when I was rambling,
monopolizing the conversation as I sometimes do, and James was having
difficulty stifling his yawns. He apologized assuring me it was not
me--but I wonder...HA!

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There are many verses that people use to justify the "power
structure" that naturally results when men group themselves
together. Some noteworthy verses are:

2Corinthians 13:10 Therefore I write these things being absent, lest
being present I should use sharpness, according to the power which the
Lord hath given me to edification, and not to destruction.

This one is often used to indicate that the pastor or minister has
power over those below him. Keep in mind that Paul was a missionary
and is not speaking as a "pastor or minister" in this context. The
power is the Lord's, not Paul's anyway, and he indicates that power is
always used for edification (building) not destruction.

This is supported in 1CORINTHIANS 9:1-12

1 Am I not an apostle? am I not free? have I not seen Jesus Christ our
Lord? are not ye my work in the Lord?
2 If I be not an apostle unto others, yet doubtless I am to you: for
the seal of mine apostleship are ye in the Lord.
3 Mine answer to them that do examine me is this,
4 Have we not power to eat and to drink?
5 Have we not power to lead about a sister, a wife, as well as other
apostles, and [as] the brethren of the Lord, and Cephas?
6 Or I only and Barnabas, have not we power to forbear working?
7 Who goeth a warfare any time at his own charges? who planteth a
vineyard, and eateth not of the fruit thereof? or who feedeth a flock,
and eateth not of the milk of the flock?
8 Say I these things as a man? or saith not the law the same also?
9 For it is written in the law of Moses, Thou shalt not muzzle the
mouth of the ox that treadeth out the corn. Doth God take care for
oxen?
10 Or saith he [it] altogether for our sakes? For our sakes, no doubt,
[this] is written: that he that ploweth should plow in hope; and that
he that thresheth in hope should be partaker of his hope.
11 If we have sown unto you spiritual things, [is it] a great thing if
we shall reap your carnal things?
12 If others be partakers of [this] power over you, [are] not we
rather? Nevertheless we have not used this power; but suffer all
things, lest we should hinder the gospel of Christ.

Notice, that Paul acknowledges that there is a degree of personal
power that all have to accomplish, but he says that the power is NOT
used (vs. 12) but instead there is a yielding to the power of the Holy
Spirit ("suffer all things"). If not THE GOSPEL OF CHRIST IS
HINDERED!

Consideration must be given to passages we find in Hebrews

Hebrews 13:17 Obey them that have the rule over you, and submit
yourselves: for they watch for your souls, as they that must give
account, that they may do it with joy, and not with grief: for that
[is] unprofitable for you.

Hebrews 13:7 Remember them which have the rule over you, who have
spoken unto you the word of God: whose faith follow, considering the
end of [their] conversation.

A cardinal failing of most when reading English is the failure to
apply logical models to what it says. In the two verses above, when we
are told to obey those who have the rule over us, the assumption is
made that others are supposed to rule. Also, keep in mind that this
is not directed at a pastor or any particular person, other than those
"who have spoken unto you the world of God" Also, what does it truly
mean to "rule over" in this case and context? Is it as a king to a
subject? A slave to a master? If we look at this in an absolute
sense, what if the "ruler" wants one to obey them by sinning?

1Timothy 5:17 Let the elders that rule well be counted worthy of
double honour, especially they who labour in the word and doctrine.

Another verse indicating that a pastor should rule others or even a
group of elders. This speaks of mature Christians guiding or being in
position to assist others in making proper judgement. "Especially
they who labour int he word and doctrine."

1Timothy 3:5 (For if a man know not how to rule his own house, how
shall he take care of the church of God?)

Many of these verse are used to indicate "control." That it is the
purpose of placing men in control and in authority over others as a
means to control them.

If the same logic that we apply to most of these passages is sound,
then we can go to I Timothy 6 and indicate that God intended slavery
(one man to be owned by another). Of course I have known Christians
to indicate that this is so--My ancestors owned slaves and used this
very passage as justification. We also see many Christians go back
into the Old Testament and the corrupt practice of the Jews and their
slave ownership as justification. This flies in the face of the
teachings of grace and liberty.

If one does not understand that Paul was speaking in a practical
sense--dealing with a reality of the time, then there are many things
we may be able to justify by such flawed logic.