iViewer Licensing, Feedback wanted
Jarrod Bell
After many requests from DIY users, we would like to get some feedback
on a new pricing structure for iViewer licensing (for both iPhone and
iPad):
http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=tEFKnIp5Edup631cwwadPbg&single=true&gid=0&range=A1%3AE9&output=html
Basically we are introducing more limitations on the free version,
whilst introducing a 'Lite' license as a middle ground for those who
don't need the full features.
These are just our thoughts, and open to discussion. All input much
appreciated.
Thanks,
Jarrod
Howard Johnson
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Howard
Jarrod Bell
(and the EventGhost plugin we wrote) then yes.
Otherwise you can use other communication methods, such as UDP
broadcasts, and then any license will work.
Jarrod
On Apr 13, 4:15 am, Howard Johnson <hdjohnso...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Would the full version be required for control via Eventghost?
>
> Howard
>
>
>
>
>
> On Mon, Apr 12, 2010 at 2:07 PM, Jarrod Bell <jar...@guilink.com> wrote:
> > Hi Everyone,
>
> > After many requests from DIY users, we would like to get some feedback
> > on a new pricing structure for iViewer licensing (for both iPhone and
> > iPad):
>
> >http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=tEFKnIp5Edup631cwwadPbg&single...
>
> > Basically we are introducing more limitations on the free version,
> > whilst introducing a 'Lite' license as a middle ground for those who
> > don't need the full features.
>
> > These are just our thoughts, and open to discussion. All input much
> > appreciated.
>
> > Thanks,
>
> > Jarrod
>
> > --
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> > "CommandFusion" group.
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> > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
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Bruce Schroeder
pricing plan for someone who is not trying to resell this service. I would
like a "family" price for however many devices I have. You can protect
your interest by only allowing connection to 1 control system (or at least
require all devices to connect to the same control systems). You could
also only allow 1 program per license (although I like the option of
different programs for each family member). I would certainly pay the $150
(or slightly more) for the ability to use this on however many devices I
have in my home/family.
Thanks for the great product and great support.
Bruce
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Jarrod Bell
hard to do, if not impossible.
Even if we were able to restrict multiple devices to connect to a
single IP address, there is nothing stopping that IP address being a
router, where the ports are forwarded to any number of systems. And
there is also nothing stopping the same IP address being used for any
number of different systems (at different locations).
Enforcing a separate pricing for people not reselling the licenses is
definitely impossible. We need to be able to enforce any restrictions
based on what license is purchased, and the only way to do this is
have the same restrictions in place for every single device.
One thing you have to keep in mind is that we cannot rely on an
internet connection being available to enforce any restrictions, so we
cant have devices phoning home to check what they are allowed to be
running.
Can you explain why you think it is a step backwards? Nothing has
actually changed for the Full License, there is just a cheaper option
for people not using expensive full house setups.
Jarrod
On Apr 13, 4:29 am, Bruce Schroeder <schroe...@easternrad.com> wrote:
> That certainly looks like a step backward. Perhaps there is another
> pricing plan for someone who is not trying to resell this service. I would
> like a "family" price for however many devices I have. You can protect
> your interest by only allowing connection to 1 control system (or at least
> require all devices to connect to the same control systems). You could
> also only allow 1 program per license (although I like the option of
> different programs for each family member). I would certainly pay the $150
> (or slightly more) for the ability to use this on however many devices I
> have in my home/family.
>
> Thanks for the great product and great support.
>
> Bruce
>
>
>
> On Mon, Apr 12, 2010 at 2:07 PM, Jarrod Bell <jar...@guilink.com> wrote:
> > Hi Everyone,
>
> > After many requests from DIY users, we would like to get some feedback
> > on a new pricing structure for iViewer licensing (for both iPhone and
> > iPad):
>
> >http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=tEFKnIp5Edup631cwwadPbg&single...
>
> > Basically we are introducing more limitations on the free version,
> > whilst introducing a 'Lite' license as a middle ground for those who
> > don't need the full features.
>
> > These are just our thoughts, and open to discussion. All input much
> > appreciated.
>
> > Thanks,
>
> > Jarrod
>
> > --
> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> > "CommandFusion" group.
> > To post to this group, send email to comman...@googlegroups.com.
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> > commandfusio...@googlegroups.com<commandfusion%2Bunsubscribe@goog legroups.com>
Bruce Schroeder
to Crestron as I can now.
Bruce Schroeder
(sent from my iPhone: Forgive the brief, error-filled, message)
Jarrod Bell
module with built in protocol support).
The way we see it, if you have a Crestron system, you wont want a
restricted version of the app anyway.
You can still connect to a crestron system and send custom messages
and parse custom feedback via the External System connections. It's
just a lot more setup work for larger systems, not much extra work to
setup a small (single page) system.
So if you don't want to pay for a license to use our software, you
will be spending a lot more time programming the system (cheaper to
buy a license depending how you value your hours).
Perhaps we can allow a Control System connection in the free version,
with a popup message saying something to the effect of "Please buy a
license to use Control Systems" every time the connection takes place.
It sounds like you are a very rare case Bruce - a DIY Crestron
programmer. Obviously programming for clients they have to pay for a
full license, so very hard to make different allowances for the DIY
Crestron programmer.
Jarrod
Bruce Schroeder
you can get for it. I guess I am the exception. The popup would be
fine and if used frequently the user would probably rather pay. For my
infrequent usage that would be fine.
Thanks
Bruce Schroeder
(sent from my iPhone: Forgive the brief, error-filled, message)
Jarrod Bell
http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=tEFKnIp5Edup631cwwadPbg&single=true&gid=0&output=html
SeanL
restrict the number inlcuded in the particular package, so it's either
none or unlimited subpages is this correct?
I think just one subpage would be a great addition to the Lite
license.
EIther way I feel it's fairly priced.
Keep up the great work!
On Apr 13, 12:18 am, Jarrod Bell <jar...@guilink.com> wrote:
> Updated licensing details here:http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=tEFKnIp5Edup631cwwadPbg&single...
Jarrod Bell
used to create almost an endless sized GUI.
So we are limiting the lite version to a couple of pages instead.
Jarrod
SeanL
included in the Lite version, I must of misread the license doc when I
looked at it earlier!
Thanks again.
Jarrod Bell
No subpages, just a few pages.
ldavies
This is an ipad right that will also be used to surf the web, check
email etc so it is going to have an internet connection you can rely
on, right?
Lloyd
ldavies
to the bother of doing this him/herself is likely going to want to
control more than 3 devices. I personally have a PVR/cable box, a dvd
player, an AV receiver and a tv and I think that's a relatively simple
system. Also one page is going to be limiting.
Lloyd
On Apr 12, 11:29 am, Bruce Schroeder <schroe...@easternrad.com> wrote:
> That certainly looks like a step backward. Perhaps there is another
> pricing plan for someone who is not trying to resell this service. I would
> like a "family" price for however many devices I have. You can protect
> your interest by only allowing connection to 1 control system (or at least
> require all devices to connect to the same control systems). You could
> also only allow 1 program per license (although I like the option of
> different programs for each family member). I would certainly pay the $150
> (or slightly more) for the ability to use this on however many devices I
> have in my home/family.
>
> Thanks for the great product and great support.
>
> Bruce
>
> On Mon, Apr 12, 2010 at 2:07 PM, Jarrod Bell <jar...@guilink.com> wrote:
> > Hi Everyone,
>
> > After many requests from DIY users, we would like to get some feedback
> > on a new pricing structure for iViewer licensing (for both iPhone and
> > iPad):
>
> >http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=tEFKnIp5Edup631cwwadPbg&single...
>
> > Basically we are introducing more limitations on the free version,
> > whilst introducing a 'Lite' license as a middle ground for those who
> > don't need the full features.
>
> > These are just our thoughts, and open to discussion. All input much
> > appreciated.
>
> > Thanks,
>
> > Jarrod
>
> > --
> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> > "CommandFusion" group.
> > To post to this group, send email to comman...@googlegroups.com.
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> > commandfusio...@googlegroups.com<commandfusion%2Bunsu...@googlegroups.com>
Jarrod Bell
rely on an internet connection to always be available.
In any case, we would only use internet phone home to check if a
device is still licensed, not to check what connections its allowed to
make.
Remember the 1 page restriction for Lite includes both portrait and
landscape, thats a lot of real estate.
And 3 external systems doesnt relate to 3 devices - it means 3 TCP/UDP
connections. So you can control a whole heap of IR devices and in some
cases serial devices with a single connection (think of the ethernet
to IR boxes with multiple IR outputs, serial outputs, etc.)
Jarrod
> > > commandfusio...@googlegroups.com<commandfusion%2Bunsubscribe@goog legroups.com>
Dave Lutz
you will need to limit the number of pages. Maybe even 1 control
system and no external as a second option. For me this would be a
better option because I am the one working on the Girder interface and
I would only need one connection to control all my devices. 3-5 pages
would be enough for the most part.
Dave
Jarrod Bell
second link (not the one in the first message of this group):
http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=tEFKnIp5Edup631cwwadPbg&single=true&gid=0&output=html
This now allows for Lite use with EventGhost, Girder, etc.
Jarrod
Dave Lutz
with EventGhost and Girder. One more question, if I need more later on
will there be a upgrade price to full version or will it be full price
to upgrade?
Jarrod Bell
The price difference after upgrade is to cover additional bank
charges, etc, associated with multiple transactions.
Jarrod
Dave Lutz
extra overhead is not bad at all. Thanks for working with the DIY's
out there. I for one really appreciate it.
Fakum12
Because as it looks now, the lite version looks really interessting
for budget projects (i.e. Prodigy based)...
Jarrod Bell
thread):
http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=tEFKnIp5Edup631cwwadPbg&single=true&gid=0&output=html
Jarrod
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Fakum12
there.
thanks. :)
Nadim Awan
Nadim – as a programmer I cant see how you can say this! – I never see you give your time for free!
From: comman...@googlegroups.com [mailto:comman...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Nadim Awan
Sent: 13 April 2010 10:07
To: commandfusion
Subject: Re: iViewer Licensing, Feedback wanted
I think the full version should be free
Jarrod Bell
our software for free, what a ridiculous suggestion - unless you want
us to fill it with ads :P
Jarrod
On Apr 18, 6:51 pm, Nadim Awan <vmail...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hey Karl, I have worked many hours for FREE over the last 16 months. I have
> only worked 1 full day in the office this year and spent most of the time
> out of the country, thats why you have not seen me. Last week when you saw
> me I had travelled/worked for 30hrs but only claimed 16hrs. Also in my spare
> time such as now, I am working on a few side projects which you will hear
> about soon.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > Nadim – as a programmer I cant see how you can say this! – I never see
> > you give your time for free!
>
>
> > *From:* comman...@googlegroups.com [mailto:
> > comman...@googlegroups.com] *On Behalf Of *Nadim Awan
> > *Sent:* 13 April 2010 10:07
> > *To:* commandfusion
> > *Subject:* Re: iViewer Licensing, Feedback wanted
> > I think the full version should be free
>
> > On 13 April 2010 00:18, Jarrod Bell <jar...@guilink.com> wrote:
>
> > Updated licensing details here:
>
> > > >>> .
> > > >>> group/commandfusion?hl=en
> > > >>> .
>
> > > > --
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JoeM
I understand all of your comments with the exception of #3 below. Here
are some more thoughts.
Isn't charging for the iViewer a hassle? Each user device has to be
purchased from the Apple store. And then when makiung that purchase
one has to decide which version they wish to download. Also, Apple is
taking their 30% of your profits. I see this as a difficult sutuation
to manage over time as volume grows and installations become more
difficult.
I am going to take another tact on the GuiDesigner approach. Given
that each Apple device has a unique ID I would think it would not be
too hard to build a provisioning type process into the GUI file that
the GuiDesigner creates. In this fashion, an installer or a DIY guy
can purchase x number of licenses of y types and install these
licenses into the GUIDesigner. They can then use/provision these
licenses to any Apple device they wish. The UID of the Apple device
gets embedded into the GUI file itself that gets downloaded to the
Apple device. iViewer then checks for its own personal provision and
allows/disallows functionality based on that provision. This would
also eliminate the concern about using any web server to deploy the
files. It would also eliminate the need for license management at the
iViewer level. Installers could purchase sets of licenses from the
CommandFusion web site and use them all on a single client or on
multiple clients because it won't matter because the licensing is
being managed in the GuiDesigner. It is true though, the installers
would have to have Internet access when they wish to purchase
additional licenses but that should not be a problem.
One last avantage is that you gain the 30% that Apple now takes.
Thoughts?
Joe
-----------------------
Hi Joe,
Some good ideas there, but still not perfect.
1. We can't require internet connectivity in the guiDesigner to check
licenses either. There is lots of work done on site by our users
where
internet connection is not always available.
This is something that integrators would kill us for if we
implemented
an internet requirement before any uploads could be done.
2. The upload service in guiDesigner is just a web server where
iViewer can grab the GUI file and images from. This can be any web
server, as documented in our iViewer User Guide. So whilst we could
theoretically enforce licensing in guiDesigner, there is nothing
stopping people copying the files onto any web server and using that
to load into iViewer.
3. This also doesn't stop programmed and licensed devices from
working
after something like a registration change.
Jarrod
On Apr 27, 2:29 am, JoeM <jmorris...@gmail.com> wrote:
- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
> Hi Jarrod,
> It has been a while since I tried your product and my memory has faded
> as to exactly how the interface works between the designer and the
> iViewer software. So I apologize if my thoughts here make no sense.
> I can understand that you cannot always rely on an internet connection
> to be available to phone home to check licensing requirements. But
> what about the designer doing it for you? Cannot the designer, based
> upon a user account, limit the capabilities of what gets actually sent
> to the iViewer device? Also, the designer could retrieve the UID of
> each device it communicates to.
> Joe
Jarrod Bell
A. Our app is free on the app store, no 30% profits taken by apple.
All licensing is managed via our website already, then assigned to a
particular gui file in guiDesigner.
B. There is only one version of the app, it works on any device by
automatically detecting what device its running on and changing
accordingly (its called a universal build).
In your provisioning example, I dont see how it would work in regards
to only allowing a license to be used on one device at a time. Can you
please explain more?
The Device ID is already embedded into the GUI file by way of the
registration code and checked by iViewer on launch to enable/disable
certain features. The gui file format is an open XML, so enabling
licensing by placing the raw Device ID into the XML won't enforce
anything as the file can freely be edited by any text editor.
Jarrod
JoeM
Ok, I bit the bullet and purchased a license so I could test out the
process that you currently have in place. You are doing the exact
process that I was trying to explain! Silly me. :)
One question on your spreadsheet. The Lite version allows 1 page for
the iPad. How is this different than the free version?
Thanks
Joe
> - Show quoted text -
Jarrod Bell
will support both portrait and landscape.
There also a few connectivity differences as noted in the spreadsheet.
Jarrod
> > - Show quoted text -
>
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Dave Lutz
personal issues.
Jarrod Bell
Looking forward to seeing the result of your Girder plugin, but take
your time - personal issues come first!
Jarrod
Dave Lutz
Laurence Robinson
On Monday, April 12, 2010 7:07:13 PM UTC+1, Jarrod Bell wrote:
Hi Everyone,
After many requests from DIY users, we would like to get some feedback
on a new pricing structure for iViewer licensing (for both iPhone and
iPad):
Laurence Robinson
Jarrod Bell
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