2016 summer 5CPs (used for 2017 bills)

[Steve Lee]

Here are the 5CPs from the summer of 2016 that will determine your capacity charge for 2017.  Note that the pjm times are eastern time zone while the Comed ones are central.

PJM

Summer 2016 RTO Coincident Peaks (5CP) 

Day            Date        Hour (EPT)         MW 

Thursday    8/11/2016     16:00          151,945 

Monday      7/25/2016     16:00          150,931 

Friday      8/12/2016     16:00          146,889 

Wednesday   7/27/2016     17:00          144,543 

Wednesday   8/10/2016     17:00          143,357

link to PJM 5CPs

Com Ed

               Date       (CPT HE)      ComEd Zonal Load 

           8/11/2016       15:00        21,174.580 

            9/6/2016       17:00        20,949.192 

            8/4/2016       17:00        20,500.961 

           7/21/2016       18:00        20,296.000 

           7/11/2016       17:00        20,268.180

link to ComEd Peaks

[Richard Marynowski]

What do they do when the PJM and ComEd both peak at the same time(i.e. 8/11/16 @ 15:00 EPT (16:00 CPT)?

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[Mark Beckstrom]

Both are used.  

On Nov 19, 2016 2:02 PM, "Richard Marynowski" <junk...@marynowski.org> wrote:

What do they do when the PJM and ComEd both peak at the same time(i.e. 8/11/16 @ 15:00 EPT (16:00 CPT)?

On Sat, Nov 19, 2016 at 12:56 PM Steve Lee <sg...@comcast.net> wrote:

Here are the 5CPs from the summer of 2016 that will determine your capacity charge for 2017.  Note that the pjm times are eastern time zone while the Comed ones are central.

PJM

Summer 2016 RTO Coincident Peaks (5CP) 

Day            Date        Hour (EPT)         MW 

Thursday    8/11/2016     16:00          151,945 

Monday      7/25/2016     16:00          150,931 

Friday      8/12/2016     16:00          146,889 

Wednesday   7/27/2016     17:00          144,543 

Wednesday   8/10/2016     17:00          143,357

link to PJM 5CPs

Com Ed

               Date       (CPT HE)      ComEd Zonal Load 

           8/11/2016       15:00        21,174.580 

            9/6/2016       17:00        20,949.192 

            8/4/2016       17:00        20,500.961 

           7/21/2016       18:00        20,296.000 

           7/11/2016       17:00        20,268.180

link to ComEd Peaks

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[Wayne Smith]

So how exactly do I use this information to estimate (or calculate) my capacity charge? I stayed With RTP 6/10/2016. I'm hoping they use my actual usage during the period, even though I wasn't being tracked at the start of June.

Comed gives me hourly data recorded as your ending. So I would need to adjust that. For example, on 8/11 1600 EST, 1500 CST, I would use your ending 4pm from my records. Is that correct?

Just in terms of my own education and understanding, I'm surprised hourly price peaks don't necessarily line up with peak usage. What feeds into this? Again on 8/11, prices at hour ending
10am $0.036
11am $0.129
12pm $0.124
1pm $0.087
2pm $0.157
3pm $0.080
4pm $0.077

[Mark Beckstrom]

Wayne,

It has been a while since I looked at this but I think this is how you figure your average demand.

You need to record your demand for the ten peaks (5 ea for ComEd and PJM).  And then average them.  Note that in 2016, the 8/11/2016 peak was the same time for both.  So you would record your peak twice, once for ComEd and once for PJM.  

As far as time, I believe that the times listed are for the hour ending.  That is 8/11/2016  15:00  would cover the total demand from 14:00 to 15:00.

So in a spreadsheet

High Demand Date	High Demand Time	My Demand
PJM	Adjusted to CDT
7/25/2016	3:00 PM	5.0
7/27/2016	4:00 PM	1.7
8/10/2016	4:00 PM	3.2
8/11/2016	3:00 PM	4.1
8/12/2016	3:00 PM	2.4
ComEd
7/11/2016	5:00 PM	2.4
7/21/2016	6:00 PM	2.1
8/4/2016	5:00 PM	1.9
8/11/2016	3:00 PM	4.1
9/6/2016	5:00 PM	2.1
Average Demand		2.90

Now you mentioned "I stayed With RTP 6/10/2016."  Not sure what you mean unless you meant to say you started with RRTP.   If that is the case then your demand might be based on the default average for 2016, not your demand.  At https://hourlypricing.comed.com/faqs/ they say the cut off is June but what does that mean for you?  

Your question on Peak Demand vs Prices.  My speculation here.  We have all seen price spikes when least expected.  Since PJM pricing covers over 20 different electric utility companies in different regions of central and eastern US, demand may be very high in New York for example but lower in Illinois.  The East Coast demand may push the price up because they need to get more expensive power for other utilities.  Later when our demand is higher our excess demand may come from the utility that was buying the hour before.  

There is a lot of information on the PJM website http://www.pjm.com much of which I have no clue what they are talking about.  But perhaps you can glean something of value there.

Mark  

[Wayne Smith]

Mark,

Thanks for your explanation. I was treating the ComEd and PJM times as hour starting, and my usage as hour ending. It makes sense that they might be recorded the same way. Either way, it may be an hour off. I doubt I will ever reconcile my numbers to ComEd's capacity numbers for me.

I did in fact mean I started with RTP 6/10/2016. I was typing on my mobile, and it looks like spell checker thought it new better than me (or I butcher it that badly). I guess I'll just have to wait and see what they do before I counter then with the fact that all peaks were after 6/10.

For the hourly prices I listed, I used the ComEd times from 8/11, which was a peak day. For some reason, this was one of those examples where the ComEd peak was at a different time than the peak prices. In reality, demand may have been high the entire time - it was one of those 94 degree (and probably humid) days.

[Ryan Ziolko]

Hi Mark,

Thanks for the info!  I'm on my second month with RRTP, and I'm having a hard time coming up with the values that is shown for my capacity charge.

I've contacted ComEd to confirm, but it looks like they don't just average the 10 hour periods from the ComEd and PJM 5CPs.  The only way I can get close is by adding up my usage for the ComEd 5CPs and PJM 5CPs, then averaging those two numbers.  Otherwise, the kW value they used on mine of off by over a factor of 5...  so maybe they do average them, but there is something else up with my bill.  I've had a smart meter for several years, so my historic hourly usage is available.

So in your example, it'd be ((5.0 + 1.7 + 3.2 + 4.1 + 2.4) + (2.4 + 2.1 + 1.9 + 4.1 + 2.1)) / 2 = 14.7 kW, which seems way too high.  Is that at all close to the value that is multiplied by the MCC on your bill?

Regarding pricing, PJM has some videos about how the prices are determined, but there are better ones on YouTube.  It is an amazingly complex system, driven by a lot of constraints.  A lot comes down to the interconnect points between sections of the grid.  There may be a wind farm producing cheap power in one state, but the interconnect to another area is too congested to carry it, so the operators have to use more expensive local power.  Check out the PJM Now app for iOS and Android.

Thanks,

Ryan

[Rex Irby]

Ryan  - If you are in your second month with RTP then my guess is you are in the Class average for capacity load charge not your actual yet.

I am not sure they changed the timing rules for capacity charge even though they might have your actual numbers for last year.  

Most of us had to wait until the next year to get our actual capacity charges and not the class average - all residential customers on fixed rate billing is the class I speak of.

The capacity charge is the reason I do not recommend RTP to anyone because it can either save them some money or cost them dearly if they like running AC between 3-6 pm.  Some have 2 units running in this period!!

Keep in mind that all customers  - (residential and commercial ) including 99.9% fixed rate pay for Capacity charge, its just hidden in their fixed rate energy supply costs.

I've been in now over 100 months and have had an very low capacity charge of $1 to $4 per month.  Currently $2.11 - Happy with that of course.  Hope you stay if you can lower your usage 3-6pm weekdays, appears you are doing OK at 2.9 - 3.5kW area, this would keep you below the class average.  Cost for capacity would be around $17-$18 at 4.69477 per kW.

Capacity ironically is where most of my savings come from and then EV charging at night for a really low rate of 7-8 cent/kWh total.  Makes travel cost come up to less than 2.5 cents a mile compared to ICE at 15-18 cents per mile.

Rex

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[Ryan Ziolko]

Hi Rex,

Ah yes, from the FAQ:

"If you had either an older style meter or a smart meter the previous summer, but were not on Hourly Pricing, your Capacity Obligation starting in June is based on the class average profile adjusted for your individual electricity usage data from that previous summer. "

I guess I'm an outlier in my class.  The value on my bill is 2.13 kW, but my average was 0.38 kW for the 2016 5CPs.  I guess I'll have to eat it for a year.  Ugh.  I wonder why they can't just average a few more years back.  I've been careful about monitoring the PJM and ComEd loads, and avoiding the AC at that time (getting ComEd load info from PJM is annoying, I've only found it in a chart).  I need to poke at their API's more.

I'm hoping to get an EV by the end of the year, so hopefully I'll enjoy some cheap charging like you do.

Thanks,

Ryan

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[Ryan Ziolko]

For the internet record, ComEd followed up with me and confirmed that it is the class value for the capacity obligation.  Seems silly since they have the data, but at least the math makes sense now.  In June of 2018 my "real" usage values will be in the capacity charge.

Later,

Ryan