Groups keyboard shortcuts have been updated
Dismiss
See shortcuts
Thoughts from the Meeting
1 view
Skip to first unread message
Michael
Feb 10, 2011, 5:49:58 PM2/10/11
to Collaboration Alley
Hey, I didn't see anything that came from the first meeting. I see a
lot from only two or three members. How do you see things going
Michael? How do you want things to get moving?
lot from only two or three members. How do you see things going
Michael? How do you want things to get moving?
Michael J. Fuhrman
Feb 10, 2011, 6:04:41 PM2/10/11
to collabora...@googlegroups.com
Noonan.m.e
Unfortunately I was the only person that showed at the first meeting. I wouldn't call it much of a meeting as I was starving and had dinner. And thought about ... What would I talk about at this first meeting =)
So, there's your challenge. What should I talk about at this first meeting =)
looking forward to your thoughts
Mike,
Unfortunately I was the only person that showed at the first meeting. I wouldn't call it much of a meeting as I was starving and had dinner. And thought about ... What would I talk about at this first meeting =)
So, there's your challenge. What should I talk about at this first meeting =)
looking forward to your thoughts
Mike,
--
noonan.m.e
Feb 10, 2011, 6:47:06 PM2/10/11
to collabora...@googlegroups.com
Well, as others pontificate on which software or code to use, I am more interested in things like the structure. Is this website just for me to find a good coder since I don't like to network or is this also a place for clients to come? Are you the only one with authority here or do you have a partner in this that is posting as well? What is the main goal or problem you are solving with this website, the deadline you are expecting, what roles do we get to play? I am a graphic designer, so I can code but I am sure there are better coders here, where do i fit in here? Will we be braking up into teams? Will we be posting our work on an ftp or shared server? How close do you think we are right now to getting started? Have you figured out all the moving parts yet or is that what the meetings were supposed to be about? I think that you need to make a rough draft of a business plan and then modify some of it after these meetings. After following a lot of these emails, it is obvious that many of us have a different idea of what it should be, don't get hi-jacked because you want to appease them. If they stay, they stay... I really like the premous that you came up with and thats why I'm here. I really want to start and get some traction. Thanks for reading....
Michael J. Fuhrman
Feb 10, 2011, 6:49:39 PM2/10/11
to collabora...@googlegroups.com
On 2/10/2011 5:49 PM, Michael wrote:
Noonan.m.e
That's a great question. I know a lot of other members are asking me for direction as well. And I need to post a project plan. Right now my main concern is consensus. I know that I want to do, and I know that there are a lot more technologies out there that I haven't been exposed to. So, I'm trying to give the group a lot of room to discuss, "What services should a Collaborative website that brings Freelancers and Entrepreneurs together have?"
Beyond just providing this space there are several goals:
- Build a space that patrons come to and say, "WOW!!! They thought of everything needed to make collaboration easy."
- Build a space that supports Freelancers and Entrepreneurs.
- Build a space that can grow and adapt as new techniques are discovered to make collaboration easier.
- Provide a space where Freelancers can gain and demonstrate their experience in developing web applications. (mind you I"m not limiting freelancers to web developers)
These are goals are obtainable, the questions for me are:
- What does the underlying structure of the site look like?
- What are the core services we want to offer?
- Is 2 to 3 programmers enough to build the initial site? (considering previous goal)
- how much do we want to bring in from other sites, vs create new? (more in a minute)
To the last question, I have been working on building web based applications in a new methodology called Ladder. It's technically not new. It's an object oriented data management tool that looks like a File Management System. The PHP concept version presently layers over top of mySQL. However, I'm working to make Ladder a completely independent database engine. Why??? Because I feel it organizes data better. It's easier to import and export (synchronize) branches of the object tree (OODMS) via XML, than it is to do this with a Flat File Database Management System (FFDMS).
The next level above that is FORM processing or WorkFlow. This is the middle ware which accepts an ID that points to a specific spot in Ladder, similar to a File Systems Shortcut. The Form Processing engine then takes, for example, an invoice and populates all the areas of the tree that need the data. Now initially that might be just the accounting system, but as the system grows, or as users find specific needs for different metrics, it would also populate data into sales representatives account for a percentage of the sale, or another folder that tracks the number of sales made, or that updates all the inventory data, if inventory management is needed.
From a work flow perspective the form passes from one user to the next to the next based on the rules of the form processing algorithms. Each time the form moves, new fields are added, data is collected and modified, things are updated, .blah blah blah ... because a processing the background that manages the form is saying what should happen. The form is no longer migrating through email, but maybe users are being prompted via email to check the form and do something with it.
Which bring us to a new IDE environment where Forms and Form Processing need to be built and managed.
So we have a database architecture that sits on separate servers. We have forms processing that sit on middleware servers and we have web servers that simply present the forms, collect the information and tell the middleware servers where to find the new data. We can create other middle ware services that link email, or RSS feeds, or other services.
So, what does this have to do with Collaboration Alley? What if after we've identified all the services we want, we could build them using this methodology, and allow users to create specific instances for themselves and tweak it as they needed. So someone builds out a full workflow process for managing a tradeshow using our system. We've provided most of the framework, they state, this is what my forms look like, this is where the data needs to go, this is who needs to be updated, this is what they need to see when they see my forms, and so on... they go as light or as deep as needed.
Is this all doable, yes.
Is it the right path to take .. I don't know. It's the path I keep seeing to take, and I haven't seen anyone else come up with a better path yet.
Has anyone else attempted to build this type of system before, not to my knowledge. No one has thought about how to separate form processing from the form. They've thought about how the object model can be separated from the data, but never the form from the processing.
And am I accurately describing the vision to you? I don't know about that either.
So, I've been holding off saying what I want because it's a very drastic change from what most people are used to. And I've been focusing the group on thinking about services because once you identify the base services needed, then we can think about how to tie them together at the database, object model, form processing level and presentation level.
Ok, very scared now ...
Mike,
That's a great question. I know a lot of other members are asking me for direction as well. And I need to post a project plan. Right now my main concern is consensus. I know that I want to do, and I know that there are a lot more technologies out there that I haven't been exposed to. So, I'm trying to give the group a lot of room to discuss, "What services should a Collaborative website that brings Freelancers and Entrepreneurs together have?"
Beyond just providing this space there are several goals:
- Build a space that patrons come to and say, "WOW!!! They thought of everything needed to make collaboration easy."
- Build a space that supports Freelancers and Entrepreneurs.
- Build a space that can grow and adapt as new techniques are discovered to make collaboration easier.
- Provide a space where Freelancers can gain and demonstrate their experience in developing web applications. (mind you I"m not limiting freelancers to web developers)
These are goals are obtainable, the questions for me are:
- What does the underlying structure of the site look like?
- What are the core services we want to offer?
- Is 2 to 3 programmers enough to build the initial site? (considering previous goal)
- how much do we want to bring in from other sites, vs create new? (more in a minute)
To the last question, I have been working on building web based applications in a new methodology called Ladder. It's technically not new. It's an object oriented data management tool that looks like a File Management System. The PHP concept version presently layers over top of mySQL. However, I'm working to make Ladder a completely independent database engine. Why??? Because I feel it organizes data better. It's easier to import and export (synchronize) branches of the object tree (OODMS) via XML, than it is to do this with a Flat File Database Management System (FFDMS).
The next level above that is FORM processing or WorkFlow. This is the middle ware which accepts an ID that points to a specific spot in Ladder, similar to a File Systems Shortcut. The Form Processing engine then takes, for example, an invoice and populates all the areas of the tree that need the data. Now initially that might be just the accounting system, but as the system grows, or as users find specific needs for different metrics, it would also populate data into sales representatives account for a percentage of the sale, or another folder that tracks the number of sales made, or that updates all the inventory data, if inventory management is needed.
From a work flow perspective the form passes from one user to the next to the next based on the rules of the form processing algorithms. Each time the form moves, new fields are added, data is collected and modified, things are updated, .blah blah blah ... because a processing the background that manages the form is saying what should happen. The form is no longer migrating through email, but maybe users are being prompted via email to check the form and do something with it.
Which bring us to a new IDE environment where Forms and Form Processing need to be built and managed.
So we have a database architecture that sits on separate servers. We have forms processing that sit on middleware servers and we have web servers that simply present the forms, collect the information and tell the middleware servers where to find the new data. We can create other middle ware services that link email, or RSS feeds, or other services.
So, what does this have to do with Collaboration Alley? What if after we've identified all the services we want, we could build them using this methodology, and allow users to create specific instances for themselves and tweak it as they needed. So someone builds out a full workflow process for managing a tradeshow using our system. We've provided most of the framework, they state, this is what my forms look like, this is where the data needs to go, this is who needs to be updated, this is what they need to see when they see my forms, and so on... they go as light or as deep as needed.
Is this all doable, yes.
Is it the right path to take .. I don't know. It's the path I keep seeing to take, and I haven't seen anyone else come up with a better path yet.
Has anyone else attempted to build this type of system before, not to my knowledge. No one has thought about how to separate form processing from the form. They've thought about how the object model can be separated from the data, but never the form from the processing.
And am I accurately describing the vision to you? I don't know about that either.
So, I've been holding off saying what I want because it's a very drastic change from what most people are used to. And I've been focusing the group on thinking about services because once you identify the base services needed, then we can think about how to tie them together at the database, object model, form processing level and presentation level.
Ok, very scared now ...
Mike,
--
Warren Vail
Feb 10, 2011, 7:10:47 PM2/10/11
to collabora...@googlegroups.com
Hmmm, Sound like my board meeting, Me, Myself and I. Need to change that or be able to share experiences with someone else in the same boat.
Wjhonson
Feb 10, 2011, 7:48:51 PM2/10/11
to collabora...@googlegroups.com
I've clipped some of what you said below to update my article
http://knol.google.com/k/will-johnson/collaboration-alley-com/4hmquk6fx4gu/719
I left off the musing about a specific application :)
http://knol.google.com/k/will-johnson/collaboration-alley-com/4hmquk6fx4gu/719
I left off the musing about a specific application :)
Michael J. Fuhrman
Feb 10, 2011, 7:55:30 PM2/10/11
to collabora...@googlegroups.com
Nonnan.m.e
Thank you very much for this comment ..."I really like the premises that you came up with and that's why I'm here. I really want to start and get some traction."
Great questions ... I'll do my best to answer them ...
Q: I am more interested in things like the structure.
A: I may have answered this in a previous email. The structure that I see Collaboration Alley taking is a 4 tier system. The database, the Object Model middleware, the Form Processing middleware (along with other processes), and the Web Presentation Layer.
Q: Is this website just for me to find a good coder since I don't like to network or is this also a place for clients to come?
A: Collaboration Alley, based on the use case I posted, is not just for programmers. It's for different kinds of businesses to wok on larger projects together. The use case I posted was about create a tradeshow for freelancers. What would resources the organizer need to complete this project, and could they find them at Collaboration-Alley.com?
Q: Are you the only one with authority here or do you have a partner in this that is posting as well?
A: Right now I'm the only authority here. As the Company Groups I definitely plan to foster other leaders to take the helm. I like to create the vehicles we drive. =)
Q: What is the main goal or problem you are solving with this website,
A: the main question we as a group are trying to address is, "What does collaboration require?" Once that's addressed, then we can start building a prototype site that helps us get the look and feel of what the site will provide it's patrons.
Q: What is thee deadline you are expecting,
A: We need quick wins here. There's a book I'm inhaling (I speed read) called, "The first 100 days" which is about hitting the ground running as a new leader and what you have to do to cement everyone else's confidence. In 100 days, from 2011-02-06, we need to have a decided what the core services are, what they look like, and have a visual prototype available. If in that 100 days we can actually have a functional website up and running .. Woo Hoo! I think realistically that will be the next 100 days.
Q: What roles do we get to play?
A: as the project fleshes out, I will need people to work on the various layers of the site. Styles, JavaScript Coders, PHP, DBAs, and others with skills in other areas to make the services work. This might require Unix C++ coders.
Q: Where do i fit in here?
A: First, do what you do best.
If you're a graphic designer, take the little logo I created for Collaboration Alley.com and see if you can make it better. Start looking at all the sites we've mentioned thus far and see what their theme styles are. Start building a static look and feel for what the head could look like. There are Generic Pages that will need to be created ... Policies, Registration, Login In, the Home page, or Other landing pages, the about us ....
If you're a coder, depending on what are you know the best, Databases, XML, MiddleWare Programming, Form Processing, Work Flow ... choose something you know best and tackle that issue.
If you're a Marketing & Sales rep, take the slogan and connect with the graphic designer and start thinking about who we can connect with for sponsors. If this site takes off, and we need to expand, we'll need help from HP, Dell, Acer, IBM, Microsoft, Linux Community, Novel .... to get a real data center.
And, while you're doing all this, pay attention to how you are collaborating with your fellow partners. Is it all via email, are there word documents, are there forms, are there surveys, questions, answers, .project plans, blah blah blah .... the more that we can answer the question, "What does collaboration require?" the closer we are to making this site successful and popular.
Q: Will we be braking up into teams?
A: Gaud, I hope so =) But we need more people to do that.
Q: Will we be posting our work on an ftp or shared server?
A: Yes, eventually I will provide you with an FTP address where you can send your work and it will be posted for all to see. We are not there yet. If you want to post something, send it to me via zip file and I'll post it on my dev server and send out the link for viewing.
Q: How close do you think we are right now to getting started?
A: We have started. =) Everyone that is part of this project is thinking about the question, "What does collaboration require?" and as we attempt to answer that question we can move into the next phase of developing pages that might present that answer.
Q: Have you figured out all the moving parts yet or is that what the meetings were supposed to be about?
A: The meetings have several purposes, one is to figure out all the moving parts, the other is to evangelize Collaboration-Alley.com. (someone created that term "evangelize" .. I'm not exactly happy with it, and if there's another / better I will certainly switch to it.) We need support in the form of sponsors, donors, programmers, different perspectives from different businesses, ... I don't have a complete list, and I hope you get the idea.
Q: What do you think Collaboration requires?
A: Collaboration requires a playground where two people can come together, announce that they have a project or an idea, find others that are interested in helping them complete the project, discuss a project, propose how they would complete the project or a portion of it, create a project plan / timeline, distribute tasks from that plan, collect revenues from performing tasks, provide feedback on how everyone interacted. The site would provide information in how to execute projects, run a business, collaborate effectively, give case studies. And this description is no different than eLance or DesignQuote. So, something is missing. Otherwise these sites have done what we are trying to do.
Still thinking about this last question ... and I'm not happy with my answer,
Mike,
Thank you very much for this comment ..."I really like the premises that you came up with and that's why I'm here. I really want to start and get some traction."
Great questions ... I'll do my best to answer them ...
Q: I am more interested in things like the structure.
A: I may have answered this in a previous email. The structure that I see Collaboration Alley taking is a 4 tier system. The database, the Object Model middleware, the Form Processing middleware (along with other processes), and the Web Presentation Layer.
Q: Is this website just for me to find a good coder since I don't like to network or is this also a place for clients to come?
A: Collaboration Alley, based on the use case I posted, is not just for programmers. It's for different kinds of businesses to wok on larger projects together. The use case I posted was about create a tradeshow for freelancers. What would resources the organizer need to complete this project, and could they find them at Collaboration-Alley.com?
Q: Are you the only one with authority here or do you have a partner in this that is posting as well?
A: Right now I'm the only authority here. As the Company Groups I definitely plan to foster other leaders to take the helm. I like to create the vehicles we drive. =)
Q: What is the main goal or problem you are solving with this website,
A: the main question we as a group are trying to address is, "What does collaboration require?" Once that's addressed, then we can start building a prototype site that helps us get the look and feel of what the site will provide it's patrons.
Q: What is thee deadline you are expecting,
A: We need quick wins here. There's a book I'm inhaling (I speed read) called, "The first 100 days" which is about hitting the ground running as a new leader and what you have to do to cement everyone else's confidence. In 100 days, from 2011-02-06, we need to have a decided what the core services are, what they look like, and have a visual prototype available. If in that 100 days we can actually have a functional website up and running .. Woo Hoo! I think realistically that will be the next 100 days.
Q: What roles do we get to play?
A: as the project fleshes out, I will need people to work on the various layers of the site. Styles, JavaScript Coders, PHP, DBAs, and others with skills in other areas to make the services work. This might require Unix C++ coders.
Q: Where do i fit in here?
A: First, do what you do best.
If you're a graphic designer, take the little logo I created for Collaboration Alley.com and see if you can make it better. Start looking at all the sites we've mentioned thus far and see what their theme styles are. Start building a static look and feel for what the head could look like. There are Generic Pages that will need to be created ... Policies, Registration, Login In, the Home page, or Other landing pages, the about us ....
If you're a coder, depending on what are you know the best, Databases, XML, MiddleWare Programming, Form Processing, Work Flow ... choose something you know best and tackle that issue.
If you're a Marketing & Sales rep, take the slogan and connect with the graphic designer and start thinking about who we can connect with for sponsors. If this site takes off, and we need to expand, we'll need help from HP, Dell, Acer, IBM, Microsoft, Linux Community, Novel .... to get a real data center.
And, while you're doing all this, pay attention to how you are collaborating with your fellow partners. Is it all via email, are there word documents, are there forms, are there surveys, questions, answers, .project plans, blah blah blah .... the more that we can answer the question, "What does collaboration require?" the closer we are to making this site successful and popular.
Q: Will we be braking up into teams?
A: Gaud, I hope so =) But we need more people to do that.
Q: Will we be posting our work on an ftp or shared server?
A: Yes, eventually I will provide you with an FTP address where you can send your work and it will be posted for all to see. We are not there yet. If you want to post something, send it to me via zip file and I'll post it on my dev server and send out the link for viewing.
Q: How close do you think we are right now to getting started?
A: We have started. =) Everyone that is part of this project is thinking about the question, "What does collaboration require?" and as we attempt to answer that question we can move into the next phase of developing pages that might present that answer.
Q: Have you figured out all the moving parts yet or is that what the meetings were supposed to be about?
A: The meetings have several purposes, one is to figure out all the moving parts, the other is to evangelize Collaboration-Alley.com. (someone created that term "evangelize" .. I'm not exactly happy with it, and if there's another / better I will certainly switch to it.) We need support in the form of sponsors, donors, programmers, different perspectives from different businesses, ... I don't have a complete list, and I hope you get the idea.
Q: What do you think Collaboration requires?
A: Collaboration requires a playground where two people can come together, announce that they have a project or an idea, find others that are interested in helping them complete the project, discuss a project, propose how they would complete the project or a portion of it, create a project plan / timeline, distribute tasks from that plan, collect revenues from performing tasks, provide feedback on how everyone interacted. The site would provide information in how to execute projects, run a business, collaborate effectively, give case studies. And this description is no different than eLance or DesignQuote. So, something is missing. Otherwise these sites have done what we are trying to do.
Still thinking about this last question ... and I'm not happy with my answer,
Mike,
--
Warren Vail
Feb 10, 2011, 8:27:34 PM2/10/11
to collabora...@googlegroups.com
Here is a shotgun blast of ideas that come to me;
Business Plan Builder
A database too that allows anyone to create an idea, keep it private until ready for a reveal. Walks a person thru building a business plan, saving contents in a DB, section by section, topic by topic, perhaps with timed access (you earn more time by critiqueing someone elses plan, say 100 words of suggestions on someone elses plan gets you 100 more minutes to build your own), perhaps starting with an outline taken from a good book on business plans. At some point, when ready to reveal, business plans are made available to entrepreneurs in a searchable DB. If Drupal is the platform, the SEO checklist module could be used to expose plans publicly, perhaps with some control given to the creator of each plan.
A Trend Rumor Wiki
Mostly accessible to entrepreneurs, this is nothing special except perhaps with a number of preset chat rooms (or rumor mills) on key subjects of interest to entrepeneurs, with places to announce and comment on whats going on, perhaps grouped by industry and the ability to post a single rumor or comment to multiple industries maintaining those threads.
This could also be useful with entries like “I read in the PackT book Drupal 7 Module Development that Drupal 8 should have modules to support automatic module upgrading on a site”.
Skills DB
A Dice type skills DB, with a feedback mechanism to take suggestions of skills to track from Developers and Headhunters, with additions authorized say, monthly, by admins, with developers creating their own entry and rating themselves, and options for narratives of their key skills (earned by doing admin time?) Provision for a repository of online resume’s with member control over SEO Exposure. It would include a search tool that head hunters could have access to for a monthly fee. Companies could scan the inventory by skill with a charge for each set of contact information revealed from the same or throttled scanning tool.
Dev Team Hosting
Using a virtual hosting arrangement with someone like hostgator, perhaps for a small fee, provide sandboxes for development efforts, with resources like svn or git, and wiki’s, ticket tracking hosted by the alley.
Reply all
Reply to author
Forward
0 new messages