week#2 online video chat discussion

[Andrea Russell]

hello everyone

last week in our online video chat we discussed charlie kaufman's lecture as well as how the chosen mindfulness practice is coming along.  the google group is a wonderful place to further this discussion and allow those of you who weren't able to join to allow share your thoughts.

1- what was meaningful for you in listening to charlie kaufman's lecture + why do you think michael may have thought it was important to listen to?

http://guru.bafta.org/charlie-kaufman-screenwriters-lecture-video

2-what have you chosen for your daily mindfulness practice and how is it coming along, what is your experience?

look forward to hearing from you all!

love
andrea

[vanessa fairall]

Hey everyone,

I was not able to participate in the video chat session, so here goes with the thoughts on the charlie kaufman lecture.

1. I found for myself that the meaning was reflected very much in the simplicity and honesty of the speaker. I have in the past experienced people who live their life in a similar manner as to what the speaker was presenting, and my experience in the relations with those people, was always one of relief, a refreshing feeling of honesty and transparent clarity, that i did not need to be anything but who i was, as a direct result that they were nothing more or less than who they were at that time, it is something i have worked with in my own life for a long time, and one that is not obviously as successful as i would have wished, so i keep working. I agree with the speaker that the selling culture that we subscribe to in our society today is one that is detrimental in many ways to our honest relations with ourselves as well as our relations to others be it a person, or a situation in our lives, and i agree, it isolates and makes us lonely in the prison cells we create for ourselves, as a direct result of these expectations and fake standards that we subscribe to. I felt that Michael, maybe considered this particular lecture for its reflection of honesty, inspiration to action and willingness to stand in the incredible wholeness and beauty of who we really are, in the given present moment, using mindfulness as the tool, being honest can be a relief to being approved and accepted.

2. I have the gift of just having moved to a home that now allows me to walk (something not always that easy in doha) so i have chosen my daily walks as my mindfulness practice. I have found that although i had presumed my walks to be peaceful and reconnecting to some sort of nature, that actually my walks were just a continuation of the mindless chatter that was going on before i stepped out the door, i have extended the mindfulness to driving, although it is not something i do everyday, because it is really necessary and helpful in that context, driving in doha is similar to driving in a fairground on the bumper cars, just with high speed and large cars. So i have in summary discovered i walk with chatter, unless i am mindful take my awareness back to the experience of breathing and i notice the movement of my feet if it is left or right, and, in the car i hold my breath most of the drive, think barking and growling thoughts and generally arrive at my destination anxious and agitated, so with the practice in the car, i choose to also notice the experience of the breath, allowing the morning practice to ground into the action of driving, to notice without the previous judgements my barking/ growling thoughts, and to pretty much just experience the drive in the space that it is in, a little bit of a harder exercise than the walk but valuable, i still growl, but less because i notice when i am growling, i still hold my breath, but i see it and allow it to release and to steady, and i am arriving more frequently at my destinations not calm and easy, but certainly closer to the balance than before i began.

Thank you for all your lovely sharing and messages
All love
Vanessa

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[Nima Namjouy]

Hi Everyone, 

While sitting yesterday, I had a very new feeling come about that I wanted to share with you.  I feel it relates very closely to Charlie Kaufman's message.

Throughout the past few days and even weeks, I constantly have had a feeling of nervousness and anxiety.  It was mainly concentrated around my place in the Centre of Gravity community.  Nervousness and anxiety of fitting in, being accepted, being rejected.  A feeling of tightness and being trapped came about every time I thought about this.  As this story kept on repeating in my mind, I would then think about how I could act or present myself so that I would be accepted.  

Last night as I was sitting, I had a feeling come about of my face opening up - without covering up who I am or trying to present an image (whether false or true). This opening up felt like a huge weight and burden lifting from within me.  For me, this is what Charlie Kaufman's message represented.  I realized that by not trying to project an image, a large emotional burden is removed and this leads to a feeling of freedom.

Later on, I thought more about this and realized that no one else really cares about the imperfections and vulnerabilities that I focus on.  As Charlie said: "offer yourself with authenticity and generosity..."; I believe it is this that leads to an immense feeling of freedom for me.  Eliminating this stress and burden that once occupied my mind, created so much space. 

I can't begin to let you know how great it is to have this forum that I can share this with you.  

with love, 

Nima

andrea

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[Ian Macdonald]

Hi Nima,

Thank you for sharing. I remember having very similar feelings when I first started attending the Tuesday talks. I'd sit there thinking I was the stupidest (or maybe most inauthentic) person in the room. It wasn't Michael's talks --he was the teacher, he should be smart, genuine, & inspiring-- but rather the comments from the others that did it. Everyone was so insightful, so in touch with themselves and aware, so creative. It was like there was a bar for attendance and I was it. Anyone more stupid (or less authentic, less creative) than me wouldn't last, but if the standard rose, even the tiniest bit, I would fall out and someone else would become the new threshold. Why did I keep going? Probably because that was just situation: normal. It was how I felt most of the time, in most of the groups I've ever been part of. Just on the edge of acceptance, the periphery of in.

Can't say I had any sort of epiphany like you so beautifully describe, but I do think something has changed gradually as a result of the practice. I've been struck by a couple of things I've heard over the last year; they've had a kind of corroding/eroding resonance. One was Enkyo Roshi's visit & talk on the Lotus Sutra (it's up as a podcast), where she spoke briefly about how every kind of growth (most particularly spiritual) involves a sort of betrayal. We can't change without threatening or bursting the boundaries and boxes we & others create for ourselves. That can be difficult and stressful, but is also necessary. I can't be exactly the same guy, only "more enlightened", the process is both more organic and more disruptive. I've got comfortable with that idea (well, sort-of). The other thing was Dogen's idea that we don't practice to get enlightened, we practice because we are enlightened. I interpret that to mean there is no end-point. It's not practice makes perfect but rather practice makes practice deeper. I'm still working on this one too, but the idea that one day I might become some kind of mythic Bodhisattva-god, able to cure all evils with a single word? I'm slowly giving that up. I'm getting more comfortable with what & who I am.

Or maybe not. It's entirely possible that I'm fooling myself and next time a storm hits, I'll be knocked over like a rotten tree trunk.

Speaking of which, tonight is the Office. Holiday. Party. Wish me luck!

Ian.

[Nima Namjouy]

Thank you for your insight Ian; as I read your email I really felt your genuine self.  I think your message is a great example that when we show our authentic self with all our vulnerabilities, it breaks the barriers separating us from everyone we interact with.  The first time I met you at one Tuesday evening talk, I would have never guessed that we share such similar insecurities.  

Enjoy the office party :)  

-Nima

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[otoolecmc]

This is my first reply in the google group, so I hope I am sending it
to the right place. I'm am so grateful to have my growing discomfort
de-mystified. When I read your comments, Ian, about the process we are
engaged in being likely disruptive, wow! Bells went off in my
head...and I remember another time doing something that resulted in a
growth spurt and expecting all light and happiness, and what I got was
light in the form of illumination. And I wasn't always happy with what
I saw. Which explains a personal habit of avoidance.

As it relates to this current work, I would say that this commitment
to Honesty, in communication and action, is making for some Big waves.
It was totally unexpected and I was feeling really distressed about
it, because I didn't understand, until I read that...Disruptive. Some
boxes don't fit anymore. I really did not expect this - I am an honest
person. Didn't think it would be too hard. But when I really examine
all the things that I DON'T say, and why I don't say them, I am not
being compassionate with myself.

Disruptive. Absolutely.
With gratitude,
Colleen

On Dec 12, 6:55 pm, Nima Namjouy <n.namj...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Thank you for your insight Ian; as I read your email I really felt your
> genuine self.  I think your message is a great example that when we show
> our authentic self with all our vulnerabilities, it breaks the barriers
> separating us from everyone we interact with.  The first time I met you at
> one Tuesday evening talk, I would have never guessed that we share such
> similar insecurities.
>
> Enjoy the office party :)
>
> -Nima
>

> On 12 December 2012 13:42, Ian Macdonald <camac...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > Hi Nima,
>
> > Thank you for sharing. I remember having very similar feelings when I
> > first started attending the Tuesday talks. I'd sit there thinking I was the
> > stupidest (or maybe most inauthentic) person in the room. It wasn't

> > Michael's talks --he was the teacher, he *should *be smart, genuine, &

> > inspiring-- but rather the comments from the others that did it. Everyone

> > was *so* insightful, *so* in touch with themselves and aware, *so *creative.

> > It was like there was a bar for attendance and I was it. Anyone more stupid
> > (or less authentic, less creative) than me wouldn't last, but if the
> > standard rose, even the tiniest bit, I would fall out and someone else
> > would become the new threshold. Why did I keep going? Probably because that

> > was just situation: *normal*. It was how I felt most of the time, in most

> > of the groups I've ever been part of. Just on the edge of acceptance, the

> > periphery of *in*.

>
> > Can't say I had any sort of epiphany like you so beautifully describe, but
> > I do think something has changed gradually as a result of the practice.
> > I've been struck by a couple of things I've heard over the last year;
> > they've had a kind of corroding/eroding resonance. One was Enkyo Roshi's

> > visit & talk on the Lotus Sutra (it's up as a podcast<http://traffic.libsyn.com/centreofgravity/feb_24_12.mp3>),

> > where she spoke briefly about how every kind of growth (most particularly
> > spiritual) involves a sort of betrayal. We can't change without threatening
> > or bursting the boundaries and boxes we & others create for ourselves. That
> > can be difficult and stressful, but is also necessary. I can't be exactly
> > the same guy, only "more enlightened", the process is both more organic and
> > more disruptive. I've got comfortable with that idea (well, sort-of). The
> > other thing was Dogen's idea that we don't practice to get enlightened, we

> > practice *because* we are enlightened. I interpret that to mean there is
> > no end-point. It's not *practice makes perfect* but rather *practice
> > makes practice deeper*. I'm still working on this one too, but the idea

> >>>http://guru.bafta.org/charlie-**kaufman-screenwriters-lecture-**video<http://guru.bafta.org/charlie-kaufman-screenwriters-lecture-video>

[Douglas Reid]

Hi Nima, 

I read your note and understood completely. I've felt the same way in every group I tried to join - I was always awaiting judgment and always expecting the worst.  As an introvert with very little experience and success in befriending others I assumed that the group's judgment was correct - there was something wrong with me.  That triggered a vicious cycle of immense self-loathing, perfectionism, procrastination, and extreme thinking - I was sure that I was the only one who was not invited to life's party.  And of course, deep envy for the "cool kids", plus an inability to celebrate any small achievements, which I was sure happened due to luck. 

I carried that burden most of my life, till last year, and have started to shed it slowly, but it's fairly embedded in my character and won't go without a fight.  Like most clinging, I suspect.

So your news makes me smile, partly because it gives me hope, and partly because I'm shown (again) that I'm not alone. Maybe we're all outsiders waiting to be invited in.  The more I understood the dynamics of craving, the more that the idea of wanting in mattered less.  So recently, I stopped trying to be accepted by anyone.  I'm just going to be me, and toss out any empty suits I once kept in the proverbial jar by the door.  

But since I can't place your face, I would ask that you be open to an idea: I may have thought that you were one of the lucky "insiders" at Centre of Gravity - a cool kid on a cushion. 

And if you weren't before, you are now*. 

Best wishes, Doug

* along with Ian, my precepts partner, and one of the most interesting, insightful people I've met in a long time.

[Nima Namjouy]

Thank you Doug, you certainly brightened my day with that very eloquently expressed message.  I agree with the sentiment that as humans we are all in some way "on the outside of the group" and are "waiting to be invited in".  It is most definitely harder for those of us who are introverts.

This seems to relate to the idea Ian presented of "disrupting" boundaries and boxes that we create for ourselves - these cravings for fitting in are in reality a boundary we create.  Colleen, I can see now that things we don't say can also create these boundaries.

Thank you all for sharing your stories,

-Nima

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