L.L.'s Chapter 1 - Chat transcript of the ZOOM session Wed Dec 15 2021
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Jaimi Hendrix
Dec 15, 2021, 2:56:00 PM12/15/21
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10:56:56 From Jerome Nikolai to Everyone:
hi everyone, am I late?
10:57:13 From Andrea Scharnhorst to Everyone:
No - just chatting
10:57:38 From Jerome Nikolai to Everyone:
okay! good
11:36:12 From Mark William Johnson to Jaimi Hendrickx(Direct Message):
https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1qhQQg0nnnF4ZKJZpgHmQFmePk2YFoHF5/edit?usp=sharing&ouid=100578523921687602946&rtpof=true&sd=true
11:49:21 From Jerome Nikolai to Everyone:
@Mark you find Husserl hard to understand? I always found him quite refreshing.
11:50:43 From Mark William Johnson to Everyone:
@Jerome I understood him best through the lens of Schutz - whose work Loet introduced me to
12:05:01 From Jaimi Hendrickx to Everyone:
Jerry's presentation at the Club of Remy
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9yXG-bRUoqQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZFIW4LaMykk
12:20:58 From Mark William Johnson to Everyone:
This discussion between David Bohm and Jiddu Krishnamurti is very interesting on problems: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AHWyxci5egg
12:32:38 From Igor Perko to Everyone:
regarding the number of new ideas (mutations) we would need to invoke the gap between the current and desired state.
12:32:40 From Jerome Nikolai to Everyone:
I have 2 points.
12:33:13 From Caroline Wagner to Everyone:
@igor - how do we know what are the "desired states"?
12:33:34 From Igor Perko to Everyone:
it depends on the eye of the beholder.
12:33:40 From Mark William Johnson to Everyone:
aren't both current and future states constructed?
12:34:07 From Caroline Wagner to Everyone:
@mark what is the role of "surprise"?
12:34:13 From Igor Perko to Everyone:
again, we are living in the world of the models
12:35:40 From Andrea Scharnhorst to Everyone:
To Caroline: from a system-theoretical point of view I tend to think that freedom is kind of illusionary - as being a part of a system always gives you boundary conditions of your actions. The "freedom" is as was said created by noise/uncertainty. Uncertainity can be constructive and destructive. There is an optimum of the amount of "mutation" a system can carry. Interesting to see how to measure this in a concrete setting.
12:39:45 From Mark William Johnson to Everyone:
@caroline - important question. I'm not sure about the distinction between surprise and information as "a difference that makes a difference". We wouldn't be surprised if a difference didn't make a difference...
12:43:05 From Caroline Wagner to Everyone:
Do we get to hear from Loet? :-)
12:44:35 From Jerome Nikolai to Everyone:
but Loet does introduce the notion of "incursion", where future states (expected states) have an impact on present choices. This is the sense, I think, in which Loet means the process moves both with and against the arrow of time.
12:45:37 From Igor Perko to Everyone:
I like the posting questions space, pointing out that we are only scratching the surface of understanding communication.
12:46:34 From Igor Perko to Everyone:
can we relate anticipation with feed forward loops?
12:50:12 From Jerome Nikolai to Everyone:
But the fact that we are here is not independent of history.
13:00:13 From Mark William Johnson to Everyone:
Anticipation, music and the body.... https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1002/sres.2738
13:00:42 From Caroline Wagner to Everyone:
Very fun discussion!
13:00:43 From Andrea Scharnhorst to Everyone:
Nice last words Rick
13:02:07 From Gerard de Zeeuw to Everyone:
Thank you for the discussion. Unfortunately, I have another meeting that I have you attend.
-- hi everyone, am I late?
10:57:13 From Andrea Scharnhorst to Everyone:
No - just chatting
10:57:38 From Jerome Nikolai to Everyone:
okay! good
11:36:12 From Mark William Johnson to Jaimi Hendrickx(Direct Message):
https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1qhQQg0nnnF4ZKJZpgHmQFmePk2YFoHF5/edit?usp=sharing&ouid=100578523921687602946&rtpof=true&sd=true
11:49:21 From Jerome Nikolai to Everyone:
@Mark you find Husserl hard to understand? I always found him quite refreshing.
11:50:43 From Mark William Johnson to Everyone:
@Jerome I understood him best through the lens of Schutz - whose work Loet introduced me to
12:05:01 From Jaimi Hendrickx to Everyone:
Jerry's presentation at the Club of Remy
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9yXG-bRUoqQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZFIW4LaMykk
12:20:58 From Mark William Johnson to Everyone:
This discussion between David Bohm and Jiddu Krishnamurti is very interesting on problems: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AHWyxci5egg
12:32:38 From Igor Perko to Everyone:
regarding the number of new ideas (mutations) we would need to invoke the gap between the current and desired state.
12:32:40 From Jerome Nikolai to Everyone:
I have 2 points.
12:33:13 From Caroline Wagner to Everyone:
@igor - how do we know what are the "desired states"?
12:33:34 From Igor Perko to Everyone:
it depends on the eye of the beholder.
12:33:40 From Mark William Johnson to Everyone:
aren't both current and future states constructed?
12:34:07 From Caroline Wagner to Everyone:
@mark what is the role of "surprise"?
12:34:13 From Igor Perko to Everyone:
again, we are living in the world of the models
12:35:40 From Andrea Scharnhorst to Everyone:
To Caroline: from a system-theoretical point of view I tend to think that freedom is kind of illusionary - as being a part of a system always gives you boundary conditions of your actions. The "freedom" is as was said created by noise/uncertainty. Uncertainity can be constructive and destructive. There is an optimum of the amount of "mutation" a system can carry. Interesting to see how to measure this in a concrete setting.
12:39:45 From Mark William Johnson to Everyone:
@caroline - important question. I'm not sure about the distinction between surprise and information as "a difference that makes a difference". We wouldn't be surprised if a difference didn't make a difference...
12:43:05 From Caroline Wagner to Everyone:
Do we get to hear from Loet? :-)
12:44:35 From Jerome Nikolai to Everyone:
but Loet does introduce the notion of "incursion", where future states (expected states) have an impact on present choices. This is the sense, I think, in which Loet means the process moves both with and against the arrow of time.
12:45:37 From Igor Perko to Everyone:
I like the posting questions space, pointing out that we are only scratching the surface of understanding communication.
12:46:34 From Igor Perko to Everyone:
can we relate anticipation with feed forward loops?
12:50:12 From Jerome Nikolai to Everyone:
But the fact that we are here is not independent of history.
13:00:13 From Mark William Johnson to Everyone:
Anticipation, music and the body.... https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1002/sres.2738
13:00:42 From Caroline Wagner to Everyone:
Very fun discussion!
13:00:43 From Andrea Scharnhorst to Everyone:
Nice last words Rick
13:02:07 From Gerard de Zeeuw to Everyone:
Thank you for the discussion. Unfortunately, I have another meeting that I have you attend.
Thomas Ball
Jan 19, 2022, 1:47:42 PM1/19/22
to cogi...@googlegroups.com
Margaret-
Thank you for hosting a very interesting event today. While there will be much follow up on, I wanted to share something that is both recent and novel, an online game from Cerebral Cybernetics.
I can't vouch for it as I'm not into video games but some of the others may enjoy it.
FWIW,
Best regards,
Thomas B
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