problems regarding installation of ubuntu 10.04 on new Dell laptops

[suyog]

I installed Ubuntu 10.04 on my new DELL Laptop (core i5) on a
dedicated partition. It got installed successfully and after rebooting
GRUB was loaded and I could select ubuntu.
After rebooting again I selected Windows 7(64 bit pre-installed in my
laptop). I was able to log in into windows. However,after rebooting
from windows GRUB did not load and a message blinked on my screen
stating "NO MODULE NAME FOUND.PLEASE SELECT PROPER BOOT DEVICE." I
selected boot device as hard drive manually.But i got the same
message. I reinstalled ubuntu inside windows.But the problem didn't
go. I thought it might be due to 32 bit version of ubuntu. I tried the
64 bit version. It again blinked the same message.
After browsing on this problem, I found that it was problem with the
MBR of the system. Then i used a super grub disc to recover the grub.
Technical explaination for this was stated as follows:
Grub default installation consist on installing what we call stage1 in
the MBR. After that after the MBR and before the first partition
beginning the stage1_5 is written. This stage1_5 conflicts with some
Windows policies that want in this space their own data. You can
however bypass this problem by linking stage1 to stage2, which it is
not located in this problematic area.

Soln stated for this problem:

* Boot with Super Grub Disk
* Choose Language & Help
* English Super Grub Disk
* GNU/Linux
* GNU/Linux (Advanced)
* Fix Boot of Linux (GRUB)
* Manually Fix Boot of Linux (GRUB) (!NO stage1_5)
* Select your Linux partition
* Select your first hard disk
* You will see a text flash (less than 0.5 seconds).
* You will return to the Manually Fix Boot of Linux (GRUB) (!NO
stage1_5) menu.
* You can go back with <--- options (At the top of the menu).

I followed the steps. But i wasn't able to recover the grub.However i
was able to recover windows boot manager with super grub disc.Then i
installed ubuntu inside windows and i was able to operate both ubuntu
and windows without any problem through windows boot manager.However i
couldn't find ans to some Q:
1.Was the problem with 64 bit windows because 32 bit version didn't
show such problem?
2.ubuntu 9.04 didn't show such problem,but 9.10 and 10.04 showed this
prob, why?
3.why this problem arise on only DELL laptops?
4.Is this a problem with laptops with core processors of intel, or is
this problem purely related to OS?
Please elaborate on this problem.

[Praveen A]

2010/8/27 suyog <sard...@gmail.com>:

> I installed Ubuntu 10.04 on my new DELL Laptop (core i5) on a
> dedicated partition. It got installed successfully and after rebooting
> GRUB was loaded and I could select ubuntu.
> After rebooting again I selected  Windows 7(64 bit pre-installed in my
> laptop). I was able to log in into windows. However,after rebooting
> from windows GRUB did not load and a message blinked on my screen
> stating "NO MODULE NAME FOUND.PLEASE SELECT PROPER BOOT DEVICE." I
> selected boot device as hard drive manually.But i got the same
> message. I reinstalled ubuntu inside windows.But the problem didn't

Hi suyog,

What do you mean by installing ubuntu inside windows? I have not
installed ubuntu for a long time, is this some new option? I think
Wubi already use this method to start Ubuntu installation from
Windows.

I used to install grub in windows
(http://sourceforge.net/projects/grub4dos/) those days and many of my
friends used to use xosl (http://www.ranish.com/part/) in REC/NIT
Calicut. This way Windows won't mess up with MBR.

No, as you mentioned Windows was removing stage_1_5 files of grub

> 2.ubuntu 9.04 didn't show such problem,but 9.10 and 10.04 showed this
> prob, why?

they were still using grub legacy as opposed to grub2 in newer versions?

> 3.why this problem arise on only DELL laptops?

I heard same problem with other laptops also.

> 4.Is this a problem with laptops with core processors of intel, or is
> this problem purely related to OS?
>                         Please elaborate on this problem.
>

As you mentioned, it is Windows policy that makes it clean stage_1_5
files of grub.

Thanks
Praveen
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rights from them; you give them permission to rule, only so long as
they follow the rules: laws and constitution.

[Sahil Patwardhan]

Hi Suyog,
            If there are problems with GRUB after installing Windows 7 & then Ubuntu (separately not inside Windows),then this may help using the Live CD.

https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Grub2#Reinstalling%20from%20LiveCD

Try all the 3 methods given there. It might help.

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Regards,
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TY B.Tech (Computer)

College Of Engineering, Pune

[sanjeev mk]

The problem is with windows 7.

GRUB stage 1.5 (legacy GRUB) has always been on the first partition after MBR.
This is a small area, hence stage 2 can't be put here.

In old GRUB,the stage 1 calls stage 1.5 which would then call stage 2.

Stage 1.5 searches for files in the filesystem (usually hard disk) and calls stage 2 which uses these files to carry out it's job. So stage 1.5 is a process that does some initialization job (searching files) and calls stage 2 to work on those files.
In legacy GRUB, stage 1.5 was a code in itself that resided immediately after MBR.

In GRUB 2 , stage 1.5 is loaded dynamically as a module. The stage 1.5 still does the same job as in old GRUB, but this time, it is not pre-loaded onto a partition after MBR. It is instead dynamically loaded. This module does the file-searching, calls stage 2 and gets unloaded.

Now, the problem is, the stage1.5 module gets loaded into the same previous area, that is, immediately after MBR. This partition, according to NEW "policies", has now been allocated to windows (starting from windows 7).
So, on boot up, stage 1.5 module gets loaded in the disputed partition . Immediately after this process, windows does a scan of this area. It sees that there is 'garbage' present there. It therefore erases the 1.5 module and puts there, it's own boot message.

Hence, the error "no module found". Windows 7 removes the module.

The problem apparently is due to a "mis-communication" between Open Source and Windows developers.When Open Source announced that GRUB no longer needs stage 1.5. ,Windows might have decided that the partition after MBR is now theirs for the taking. .
So it decided to infringe the area with its own "boot message"..

So, for this error, you can blame GRUB 2 which loads the module in the same old area,...or you can blame Windows 7 for having decided to infringe that area assuming stage1.5 won't be present there.

Whom you blame depends on which side you are on...hehe :).

[suyog sarda]

I tried to restore grub with live cd,but the problem didn't go

On Sat, Aug 28, 2010 at 1:22 AM, Sahil Patwardhan <sahilpa...@gmail.com> wrote:

[suyog sarda]

But this problem doesn't exist with win7 32 bit.Also who decides whom to allot space next to MBR?is it BIOS?Then this problem is with  BIOS....It seems that windows have started Dadagiri by reserving the space.

[Praveen A]

2010/8/28 suyog sarda <sard...@gmail.com>

>
> But this problem doesn't exist with win7 32 bit.Also who decides whom to allot space next to MBR?is it BIOS?Then this problem is with  BIOS....It seems that windows have started Dadagiri by reserving the space.

It is indeed Dadagiri, see this blog post from Grub developer Colin Watson
http://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/ucgi/~cjwatson/blosxom/debian/2010-08-28-windows-applications-making-grub2-unbootable.html

Also please contact him if any of you experienced this issue.

There is more discussion on this at slashdot
http://linux.slashdot.org/story/10/08/28/2112208/Some-Windows-Apps-Make-GRUB-2-Unbootable

[Gaurav Jain]

I don't think that the problem is with the MBR or Grub2 because if this was the case, then people who faced this dual booting win7 ubuntu error would have been far more. According to me, the problem lies somewhere with the i-series processors used in Dell and its BIOS because only people who have recent machines have started facing this problem.

[Praveen A]

2010/8/30 Gaurav Jain <gaura...@gmail.com>:

> I don't think that the problem is with the MBR or Grub2 because if this was
> the case, then people who faced this dual booting win7 ubuntu error would
> have been far more. According to me, the problem lies somewhere with the
> i-series processors used in Dell and its BIOS because only people who have
> recent machines have started facing this problem.

Grub developers think it is problem with some software over writing
some portions of hard disk before partitions start. Those who faced
this problem should follow instructions given by Colin Watson and send
him those data so that he can fix it. After exams, those who faced
problems can sit together and submit these details.

[suyog sarda]

I also think that it might be problem with BIOS, because the problem lies with the process which gives permission to write in MBR (probably it is the BIOS).This problem does not exist with previous version of Grub. But Ubuntu 9.04 -with previous version of grub- does not have this problem.Can anyone specify who decides to give permission to write in MBR.

[Rahul Bedarkar]

I suggest to use Ubuntu 10.04 Netbook Ed.

सर्वांमध्ये एक आणि एकात सर्व

[Praveen A]

2010/8/31 Rahul Bedarkar <rpa...@gmail.com>:

> I suggest to use Ubuntu 10.04 Netbook Ed.

How would that solve this issue? Does Netbook Ed use anything other than Grub2?

[Rahul Bedarkar]

On Tue, Aug 31, 2010 at 6:55 PM, Praveen A <pra...@gmail.com> wrote:

2010/8/31 Rahul Bedarkar <rpa...@gmail.com>:

> I suggest to use Ubuntu 10.04 Netbook Ed.

How would that solve this issue? Does Netbook Ed use anything other than Grub2?

This problem is only because of Grub2 but many reviews of people on this problem

says that problem was solved after using Netbook ed. I do not  how.

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rights from them; you give them permission to rule, only so long as
they follow the rules: laws and constitution.

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[Praveen A]

2010/8/31 suyog sarda <sard...@gmail.com>:

> I also think that it might be problem with BIOS, because the problem lies
> with the process which gives permission to write in MBR (probably it is the
> BIOS).This problem does not exist with previous version of Grub. But Ubuntu
> 9.04 -with previous version of grub- does not have this problem.Can anyone
> specify who decides to give permission to write in MBR.

Hi Suyog,

MBR is nothing but first 512 bytes of a partitioned storage device.
See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Master_boot_record Only boot loaders
should be allowed to use space before partitions, because only they
have any business there. Another option suggested is to write grub's
data in a special partition, but that is not practical because x86
BIOS with DOS partition table allows only 4 primary partitions.
Operating system gets to write to this area.

"This is a bug in which some proprietary Windows-based software
overwrites particular sectors in the gap between the master boot
record and the first partition, sometimes called the "embedding area".
GRUB Legacy and GRUB 2 both normally use this part of the disk to
store one of their key components: GRUB Legacy calls this component
Stage 1.5, while GRUB 2 calls it the core image (comparison). However,
Stage 1.5 is less useful than the core image (for example, the latter
provides a rescue shell which can be used to recover from some
problems), and is therefore rather smaller: somewhere around 10KB vs.
24KB for the common case of ext[234] on plain block devices. It seems
that the Windows-based software writes to a sector which is after the
end of Stage 1.5, but before the end of the core image. This is why
the problem appears to be new with GRUB 2."

http://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/ucgi/~cjwatson/blosxom/debian/2010-08-28-windows-applications-making-grub2-unbootable.html

It just happens that grub legacy uses a smaller part of embedding
area. So it has nothing to do with BIOS.

[Rahul Bedarkar]

Any name of application that may do such things.

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[Rahul Bedarkar]

Few years ago, I have written a program that overwrites the sector 1 with some raw data, but windows 

did not allow me to do this and exception was thrown. 

Then how windows based software can do this. I think if it is windows inbuilt software

then it may possible to that windows will allow it to do such things. I do not agree on windows

based prori. software will bypass such security which almost all OS provides at least for 

the writing on such critical sections.

[Rahul Bedarkar]

Last mail for Praveen A.

[sanjeev mk]

@Suyog: The previous version of GRUB  CANNOT have this problem because in previous version , stage1.5 was always present on the hard disk (in the partition after MBR). In previous version, stage1.5 was not dynamically loaded. So there is no chance of this error  occurring with old GRUB.

On Tue, Aug 31, 2010 at 4:55 PM, suyog sarda <sard...@gmail.com> wrote:

[Praveen A]

2010/8/31 Rahul Bedarkar <rpa...@gmail.com>:

> Any name of application that may do such things.

HP ProtectTools, PC Angel, Adobe Flexnet from the slashot article
which I linked earlier.

[Praveen A]

2010/8/31 sanjeev mk <sanjee...@gmail.com>:

> @Suyog: The previous version of GRUB  CANNOT have this problem because in
> previous version , stage1.5 was always present on the hard disk (in the
> partition after MBR). In previous version, stage1.5 was not dynamically
> loaded. So there is no chance of this error  occurring with old GRUB.

Sanjeev,

It is not because how it is loaded but the size of data differs
between grub and grub2.

From Colin Watson's blog,

"It seems that the Windows-based software writes to a sector which is after the
end of Stage 1.5, but before the end of the core image."

--

[Madhur Bajpai]

also Fedora 13 32 bit works perfectly with these laptops.. what
difference does Fedora provide than ubuntu so that it is not giving
"MODULE NOT FOUND ERROR"?

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excellence is simplicity."
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College of Engineering, Pune.
Registered Linux User #503092

[sanjeev mk]

@Madhur: That's because Fedora still uses Legacy Grub,not Grub2.
The problem occurs on systems using Grub2.
Legacy grub does not use modules.

It is strange that Fedora has not yet shifted to Grub2 while the rest of the world has. But it is good in the view that it doesn't cause problems with Windows7.

Fedora is gonna shift to Grub2 from future releases.

[Gaurav Juvekar]

Could we un-sticky this. 10.04.4 Desktop has EOLed almost 2 years ago